If you owned Kings Island

[TombRaiderFTW]

8 hours ago, BoddaH1994 said:

The track gauge is different between PTCs and the other two. Honestly if they were going to bother to get new trains they’d probably roll it all into a major overhaul of a ride, so a full retracting may be likely. The real reasons they haven’t done it to Racer or Beast is it would be incredibly expensive for only a half-marketable upgrade they’d have to rely on PR - which wouldn’t go so great right now, it’s not necessary yet, and finally, some nostalgic purists wouldn’t like the change. Remember the fountain last year? Imagine that, except normal people actually care. 

I question this, not because I doubt your industry knowledge (because I don't), but because of two things:

1. Both GCI and The Gravity Group offer that their respective trains can be put on existing coasters, and have been (e.g. Roller Coaster at Lagoon, Wildcat at Lake Compounce, Wildcat at Hersheypark, Gwazi at Busch Gardens Tampa, Hades at Mt. Olympus). Would GCI/GG have to build their trains wider to fit the existing gauge? Surely they aren't adjusting the track gauge.

2. I feel like some of the aforementioned examples (except Hades and maybe Gwazi) had their trains switched out quietly, without too much PR/Marketing buzz. I assume the financial justification was reduced maintenance. Do you feel like it's Cedar Fair's style to only make that kind of change if they can market it?

[drbyq9]

1 hour ago, kinserman11 said:

I think you would be surprised at how much better Beast & Racer would be just keeping the trains they have and using better quality, softer padding under the upholstery, getting rid of the seat divider that goes all the way to your shoulder, while keeping the one down by your hips, chucking the headrests, and going back to to a single lapbar with a seatbelt. This would also lighten the trains up as well, the way I see it, if The Voyage can run without headrests & a upper seat divider, than these two coasters certainly should be able to....jmo

I think most people would agree with all of these changes.  I also think the unfortunate reality of the situation is that these things are here to stay to keep insurance costs down.  Cedar Fair seems pretty conservative in that regard.  It would be great to roll many coasters out there back to these kind of train setups, but we've gotten too litigious and the companies are protecting themselves at the cost of ride experience and operations.

[DiamondbackFan]

I would move the Xtreme Skyflyer to the SOB station area in order to free up land for an Action Zone overhaul. Some grading and retaining wall work would be needed to make a flat platform area.

Edited September 22, 2020 by DiamondbackFan

[BoddaH1994]

11 hours ago, TombRaiderFTW said:

I question this, not because I doubt your industry knowledge (because I don't), but because of two things:

1. Both GCI and The Gravity Group offer that their respective trains can be put on existing coasters, and have been (e.g. Roller Coaster at Lagoon, Wildcat at Lake Compounce, Wildcat at Hersheypark, Gwazi at Busch Gardens Tampa, Hades at Mt. Olympus). Would GCI/GG have to build their trains wider to fit the existing gauge? Surely they aren't adjusting the track gauge.

2. I feel like some of the aforementioned examples (except Hades and maybe Gwazi) had their trains switched out quietly, without too much PR/Marketing buzz. I assume the financial justification was reduced maintenance. Do you feel like it's Cedar Fair's style to only make that kind of change if they can market it?

I could be wrong about the track gauge, but that’s what I had always heard. 
 

I think the examples you listed are pretty good examples of a last resort kind of situation. Think along the lines of SOB getting those G-Trains. 
 

I do think that CF would only do it if it had marketability. But for example if it came down to The Beast being so uncomfortable that it came down to either replace the trains or close the ride, it would be on the table. That’s what makes me wonder about your examples, like Lagoon. Cedar Fair could afford to swap trains if they wanted to. They choose not to. Lagoon couldn’t make an investment of hundreds of thousands to do that without really really thinking about the necessity. 

[TombRaiderFTW]

^ Mm, that makes sense.

A tangent, and I'm thinking out loud here: It's struck me as a bit odd that Kings Island (to my knowledge) never sends Racer's or Beast's trains to PTC in the winter to be refurbed. Like, the trains are perfectly serviceable come spring, but I feel like trains that go to PTC come out the other end feeling like new, and KI's don't. I can't imagine it's THAT expensive to have done--small independent parks do it. Maybe it costs more than it does to have the park do it in-house, or maybe the trains are of age that PTC won't touch them unless they're replaced with new 3-bench trains. I'm under the impression that KI modified Beast's trains from 4-bench cars to 3-bench cars in-house, and maybe PTC won't take on liability for them because of that? But that wouldn't explain Racer. And it's not a Cedar Fair policy or anything, because Blue Streak's trains go to PTC every winter.

[CoasterJack]

11 minutes ago, TombRaiderFTW said:

^ Mm, that makes sense.

A tangent, and I'm thinking out loud here: It's struck me as a bit odd that Kings Island (to my knowledge) never sends Racer's or Beast's trains to PTC in the winter to be refurbed. Like, the trains are perfectly serviceable come spring, but I feel like trains that go to PTC come out the other end feeling like new, and KI's don't. I can't imagine it's THAT expensive to have done--small independent parks do it. Maybe it costs more than it does to have the park do it in-house, or maybe the trains are of age that PTC won't touch them unless they're replaced with new 3-bench trains. I'm under the impression that KI modified Beast's trains from 4-bench cars to 3-bench cars in-house, and maybe PTC won't take on liability for them because of that? But that wouldn't explain Racer. And it's not a Cedar Fair policy or anything, because Blue Streak's trains go to PTC every winter.

The only explanation about the Cedar Fair thing that I can think of is that since Blue Streak is the only traditional wooden coaster, it's probably better to send them off, while at Kings Island they have 4 traditional woodies. Now I know Mystic Timbers is an exception cause sending the trains to GCI, but still, Kings Island has a better in-house department compared to some other independent parks.

[CorkscrewMcPuke]

I'd probably create more unique theming for the kid side of the park. Rather than buying licensed IPs, I'd prefer to make original characters that the park can use indefinitely and in any way imaginable. While the Peanuts are indeed beloved, I think it does a lot for a park to have its own flavor entirely. On top of this, I'd move to repurpose the Tomb Raider building and repaint/retrack the coasters that need it.

Spoiler

I'd also bring back The Beastie, tunnel and all.

 

[BoddaH1994]

6 hours ago, TombRaiderFTW said:

^ Mm, that makes sense.

A tangent, and I'm thinking out loud here: It's struck me as a bit odd that Kings Island (to my knowledge) never sends Racer's or Beast's trains to PTC in the winter to be refurbed. Like, the trains are perfectly serviceable come spring, but I feel like trains that go to PTC come out the other end feeling like new, and KI's don't. I can't imagine it's THAT expensive to have done--small independent parks do it. Maybe it costs more than it does to have the park do it in-house, or maybe the trains are of age that PTC won't touch them unless they're replaced with new 3-bench trains. I'm under the impression that KI modified Beast's trains from 4-bench cars to 3-bench cars in-house, and maybe PTC won't take on liability for them because of that? But that wouldn't explain Racer. And it's not a Cedar Fair policy or anything, because Blue Streak's trains go to PTC every winter.

It all comes down to the facilities and the capacity they have to do this sort of rehab. KI can just do it. They always have. And they do more than PTC requires. They break them down every year. PTC recommends every 3, I think.  No issues with liability or anything like that. They can so they do. 
 

Also, more info on the Millennium Flyers on traditional track. So, Mystic’s trains would NOT run on The Beast, but GCI will build custom trains to meet your gauge... if the price is right.  I know that doesn’t answer any questions, but it’s a fun bit of info. 

[Vortex1987]

I would...... revive Vortex. And give it a redo. And then keep a piece to myself. I miss that gem immensely. 

[BeastieFanatic]

demolish Junklot stunt coaster, build a new, bigger, better version of Phantom Theater with over 200 animatronics and an actual theater you get to walk through after the ride is over with skeletons and dead people sitting in the seats. 

demolish Invertigo, the outdoor theater and congo falls, put in a wing coaster in that spot.

put a ground up single rail GCI where Vortex once stood, I would make it themed to a snowy mountain and call it "Polar Vortex"

demolish the tomb raider building and put in a bigger and better version of Congo falls, give it an indoor section with zombie animatronics and call "Zombies of Kenton Cove.