SeaWorld Misses Targets, Stock Plummets

[bkroz]

Here's a crazy thought.

What if SeaWorld did release their killer whales into oceanic pens? The ignorant masses are screaming "release the orcas into the wild." At least the researched masses are saying "create an oceanic pen for them." And really, why not?

Are orcas SeaWorld's big draw? You bet.

Are they doing more harm than good as it currently is? Sure seems that way...

So if they have this mindset that orcas are their "thing" and getting rid of their "thing" would render them helpless, they may be overthinking it. Orcas may be their "thing," but that "thing" is drawing them more criticism than praise. And no, it doesn't look like that's going to change anytime soon.

If SeaWorld let those orcas off in an oceanic pen and continued to care for them just as they do now, but without the entertainment aspect, then they might recoup some lost interest. I truly think it couldn't hurt. I'm sure they've done their studies though and found that those killer whales are their only chance at long-term success, right? ...right?

I maintain my point: SeaWorld is a zoo. A good zoo. A really good zoo even, with international brand identity, some incredible partnerships, and a conversation reach that most other, smaller, less-recognized zoos can't manage. Even Blackfish didn't question SeaWorld's care of manatees, penguins, flamingos, etc. Their argument is that orcas specifically are too intelligent for captivity, no matter how much care or attention they get. I buy it. I don't buy that SeaWorld is negligent or evil, but I buy that orcas would do better in the wild. If you HAVE to be in a zoo, SeaWorld would be the one to be in. But at this point, I think they'd actually be better off by removing the orcas from their parks.

Sure, it'd be read as them buckling to pressure. Yep. But those whales would be happier, and the parks might actually survive. Win-win?

And I say again: I bet they're regretting "SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment" and "SEAS" right now. Would Worlds of Discovery Parks be faring as poorly? I don't know...

[thekidd33]

But would those Orcas (specifically the captive bred ones) stand a chance in the wild? Have there been captive bred Orcas successfully released into the wild before? Is the sea pen option a viable one? Perhaps. It seems that San Diego is the only place this could happen if it were to still remain an attraction that is open to the public (unless it was built as separate stand alone attraction). How would Orlando fair in a market with an exploding Universal property and the Disney juggernaut without the Orca draw? (Correct me if I'm wrong but San Antonio does not have an Orcas currently do they?)

Edit: It appears that San Antonio does indeed have Orcas.

[Tanna]

Here's a crazy thought.

What if SeaWorld did release their killer whales into oceanic pens? The ignorant masses are screaming "release the orcas into the wild." At least the researched masses are saying "create an oceanic pen for them." And really, why not?

Are orcas SeaWorld's big draw? You bet.

Are they doing more harm than good as it currently is? Sure seems that way...

So if they have this mindset that orcas are their "thing" and getting rid of their "thing" would render them helpless, they may be overthinking it. Orcas may be their "thing," but that "thing" is drawing them more criticism than praise. And no, it doesn't look like that's going to change anytime soon.

If SeaWorld let those orcas off in an oceanic pen and continued to care for them just as they do now, but without the entertainment aspect, then they might recoup some lost interest. I truly think it couldn't hurt. I'm sure they've done their studies though and found that those killer whales are their only chance at long-term success, right? ...right?

I maintain my point: SeaWorld is a zoo. A good zoo. A really good zoo even, with international brand identity, some incredible partnerships, and a conversation reach that most other, smaller, less-recognized zoos can't manage. Even Blackfish didn't question SeaWorld's care of manatees, penguins, flamingos, etc. Their argument is that orcas specifically are too intelligent for captivity, no matter how much care or attention they get. I buy it. I don't buy that SeaWorld is negligent or evil, but I buy that orcas would do better in the wild. If you HAVE to be in a zoo, SeaWorld would be the one to be in. But at this point, I think they'd actually be better off by removing the orcas from their parks.

Sure, it'd be read as them buckling to pressure. Yep. But those whales would be happier, and the parks might actually survive. Win-win?

And I say again: I bet they're regretting "SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment" and "SEAS" right now. Would Worlds of Discovery Parks be faring as poorly? I don't know...

If the interaction with humans could still go on until slowly phased out.

A lot of those whales grew up with those two legged pilot fish on the edge of their habitat.

Faeire would know more than me, of course, because I'm a video fan, never set foot into the park yet, but Tillikum is now rewarded with a hose, because they don't pet him anymore. I don't know how he's accepted that.

A sea pen where they can still be amused I can agree with, but to toss them in open water where they mistakenly hula to try to get fish would be a travesty. There's film where an orca is teaching a calf a show trick- that's their hunting now.

A sea pen with butlers might be best. I wish to see more of the new habitat to judge for myself if it's a good compromise in my mind. I must make my judgement by pressing my nose against the glass, I'm sure of it.

[faeriewench]

Have there been captive bred Orcas successfully released into the wild before?

Nope. And don't get me started on the two attempts at releasing orcas that spent time in captivity (one a captured orca and the other a rescue)...they were NOT the successes activist make them out to be.

I actually no issues with the idea of sea pens, problem is the threat of disease mainly. Oceans are pretty polluted...(thanks to us of course) the captive orcas probably get sick and any bacteria they themselves carry can have its own negative impact on their wild counterparts.

SeaWorld need to work on all the exhibits (orcas, dolphins and even the seals/sea lions). In the case of the dolphins, I wonder about the show dolphins because in Orlando and San Diego they share the complex with pilot whales. At Orlando in particular there are 4 pilot whales there now, and they are all still on the young side and still growing...

[Dr Zhark]

Well we all know what this means

Dr Zhark bringing in the new Cedar Fair sign

[The Interpreter]

Yet the FIRST thing Cedar Fair did when it bought Geauga Lake was not buy the animals--letting them stay with Six Flags.

[faeriewench]

Cedar Fair better not touch SeaWorld. The thought of that makes me want to puke.

[malem]

^ Virginia probably wouldn't appreciate the same company owning both KD and BGW. Also, the SeaWorld parks involve substantial risk (not to mention the animals), which 2014's Cedar Fair seems keen to avoid.

[thekidd33]

^Not to mention that CF isn't exactly in the financial shape to be buying three new parks.

[thedevariouseffect]

I doubt CF would buy SEA anytime soon. Right now they are analyzing each parks gap and adjusting them as they see fit. I don't see SEA fitting into that whatsoever currently. However, I never thought I'd see Geauga, KI, or some other parks being bought by CF. Hell, I never expected a CF to begin with, I expected CP to just be CP.

[The Interpreter]

SeaWorld is SEAS.

And SEAS is a lot more than three parks.

[faeriewench]

^Not to mention that CF isn't exactly in the financial shape to be buying three new parks.

Busch Gardens I think you forgot.

Nah, I like the parks as they are now...for the most part, SW aren't completely perfect either. No coasters doing backflips/corkscrew/whatever over main entrances (it just doesn't look inviting for someone like me), mediocre food, musical reviews please. I'd be worried for the animals too.

[thedevariouseffect]

Didn't know that, I thought they were SEA..my bad lol

[The Interpreter]

SEA is Guggenheim Shipping ETF.

[Tanna]

Have there been captive bred Orcas successfully released into the wild before?

Nope. And don't get me started on the two attempts at releasing orcas that spent time in captivity (one a captured orca and the other a rescue)...they were NOT the successes activist make them out to be.

I actually no issues with the idea of sea pens, problem is the threat of disease mainly. Oceans are pretty polluted...(thanks to us of course) the captive orcas probably get sick and any bacteria they themselves carry can have its own negative impact on their wild counterparts.

SeaWorld need to work on all the exhibits (orcas, dolphins and even the seals/sea lions). In the case of the dolphins, I wonder about the show dolphins because in Orlando and San Diego they share the complex with pilot whales. At Orlando in particular there are 4 pilot whales there now, and they are all still on the young side and still growing...

Now you see the difference between book (video/internet) knowledge and experience, my big problem with sea pens is the fear of some over the top activist vandalizing the sea pen in an attempt to free them.

Isn't that how the three whales at Sealand ended up in big crates overnight?

[Outdoor Man]

SEAS=

3 SeaWorld Parks

2 Busch Gardens Parks

1 Sesame Place Park

and several water parks (forgot those).

[faeriewench]

Have there been captive bred Orcas successfully released into the wild before?

Nope. And don't get me started on the two attempts at releasing orcas that spent time in captivity (one a captured orca and the other a rescue)...they were NOT the successes activist make them out to be.

I actually no issues with the idea of sea pens, problem is the threat of disease mainly. Oceans are pretty polluted...(thanks to us of course) the captive orcas probably get sick and any bacteria they themselves carry can have its own negative impact on their wild counterparts.

SeaWorld need to work on all the exhibits (orcas, dolphins and even the seals/sea lions). In the case of the dolphins, I wonder about the show dolphins because in Orlando and San Diego they share the complex with pilot whales. At Orlando in particular there are 4 pilot whales there now, and they are all still on the young side and still growing...

Now you see the difference between book (video/internet) knowledge and experience, my big problem with sea pens is the fear of some over the top activist vandalizing the sea pen in an attempt to free them.

Isn't that how the three whales at Sealand ended up in big crates overnight?

That was a if I remember correctly a concern for Keiko when he was in his pen, that and plus tourists trying to sneak in to take pictures of him and ride him because he was "Willy".

[shark6495]

Could they do something like in Jaws 3-D

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Leland Wykoff]

Busch Gardens Williamsburg is experiencing many issues under Seas Management. Ride closures, failure to inject large marketable capital projects, perception of food quality decline, not to mention significant labor issues. Thus they may be eager to offload this property. Cedar Fair could be a likely acquirer. Recall Cedar Fair has a recent transaction relationship with Sea World due to the sale of Soak City.

Sea World stock has been clobbered. Given Busch properties do not prominently feature live animal attractions Sea World may see them as being outside management expertise and perceive a lack of opportunity to leverage the core competency associated with wrangling cash out of what amounts to for profit zoos. Seas has announced a significant stock buy back program. The cash has to come from somewhere.

Cedar Fair is now in much better financial shape with a much improved balance sheet. The CEO reminds us they are always evaluating opportunities to make selective additions and are in a position to do so. Seas may be underwater with Busch Gardens Williamsburg.

Is it likely Cedar Fair could acquire Busch Gardens properties from Seas? Tough question. But stranger things have been know to happen.

[IndyGuy4KI]

Bigger Tanks will help with SEAS prices, or will they? I know it was brought up before but, online articles not fairing well...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/08/15/seaworld_building_new_tanks_for_its_whales_a_fancy_bathtub_is_still_a_bathtub.html

http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/2014/08/seven_reasons_seaworlds_bigger_orca_tanks_project_is_a_joke.php

[TTD-120-420]

SEAS=

3 SeaWorld Parks

2 Busch Gardens Parks

1 Sesame Place Park

and several water parks (forgot those).

And Discovery Cove.

[malem]

Is it likely Cedar Fair could acquire Busch Gardens properties from Seas? Tough question. But stranger things have been know to happen.

If we're considering that possibility, however remote it might be, we might as well ask:

If the Busch Gardens parks were acquired by today's SIX or FUN, would they be renamed? If so, what to?

[The Interpreter]

SIX: Six Flags Wiiamsburg (SFW) and Six Flags Tampa (SFT)

Cedar Fair: Williamsburg Park and Tampa Park?

[malem]

^ "Six Flags Tampa" seems somewhat unlikely, regardless of ownership, due to brand confusion.

Why should someone from the midwest go to Six Flags on their Florida vacation when they can drive to it from home in a few hours or less?

[The Interpreter]

SIX knows what it is doing. I'd not be the least bit surprised. I'd be more surprised if they bought the Busch Gardens Parks.

Cedar Fair even more so. They aren't in the animal business.

[The Interpreter]

NY Law Firm Exploring Class Action Law Suit Against SEAS For Securities Fraud, related to admission only recently that Blackfish 'documentary' has hurt it:

http://m.bizjournals.com/orlando/blog/2014/08/ny-law-firm-explores-class-action-suit-against.html?ana=e_orl_bn_newsalert&u=pB2D54PrJ4m+tf5T51zZ5o6bDaJ&t=1408485197&r=full

[Tanna]

NY Law Firm Exploring Class Action Law Suit Against SEAS For Securities Fraud, related to admission only recently that Blackfish 'documentary' has hurt it:

http://m.bizjournals.com/orlando/blog/2014/08/ny-law-firm-explores-class-action-suit-against.html?ana=e_orl_bn_newsalert&u=pB2D54PrJ4m+tf5T51zZ5o6bDaJ&t=1408485197&r=full

There seems to be quite a few missteps in the managing of this event, aren't there? They were late to combat the effect of the film with the PR debt., and now this.

I wish this weren't so, to be honest I am concerned about what will happen to the animals if these shin kicks keep up.

[The Interpreter]

Compare SeaWorld's reactive moves to this summer's publicity at Kentucky Kingdom (or the lack thereof during the fair).

Quite frankly, the similarities are there.

Meanwhile, I wish I could say I find the proposed litigation utterly without merit, but even I was stunned at both the admission that Blackfish is hurting SEAS... more so with its timing. Companies must disclose material factors that could affect regulated securities valuation as soon as it is known the potential exists. See Cedar Fair's long, intricate disclosures in forward looking statements.

Terp, who is not engaged in the private practice of law in Florida, Virginia, California, Texas, the District of Columbia or any United State. He is not a dealer in securities nor an investment advisor, registered or otherwise, within the meaning of the Securities Act of 1934, as amended, and subsequent legislation and regulations. There is no legal or investment advice meant for any particular client or situation contained herein. There are uncertainties in litigation and in finical markets, whose outcomes cannot be predicted with certainty, nor guaranteed. Consult a competent legal, accounting, securities and/or financial advisor for advice. This lengthy disclaimer is unfortunately required of the author herein. Have a great day. Results not guaranteed nor reasonably foreseeable.

[bkroz]

It seems to me that any acquisition by Cedar Fair of any of the SeaWorld Parks would deserve a unique classification (i.e. no rides called Vortex, no i-dotted-with-flags, not part of the matching logo portfolio, etc). Give them their own division and their own unified branding. Cedar Fair Adventure Parks or something.God willing, the park(s) would be recognized as distinctly different from Cedar Fair's other parks. The needs and wants of their visitors are not the same as the needs and wants of Cedar Point's or Kings Island's or Dorney Park's. Different food, different culture, different atmosphere, different style. Though, truth be told, I don't think even regular-old Cedar Fair would be daft enough to add Williamsburg's 2015 coaster...

In terms of renaming the parks, much would have to do with the way they're split, right? If say, Cedar Fair were to buy both Busch Gardens parks and InBev agreed to retain the current sponsorship deal through Anheuser-Busch, they could probably keep their names. If they split, perhaps it would be a Great America sequel. Like Busch Gardens Tampa: A Six Flags Park and Virginia's Busch Gardens. Head spinning.

[bkroz]

But would those Orcas (specifically the captive bred ones) stand a chance in the wild? Have there been captive bred Orcas successfully released into the wild before? Is the sea pen option a viable one? Perhaps. It seems that San Diego is the only place this could happen if it were to still remain an attraction that is open to the public (unless it was built as separate stand alone attraction).

I'm absolutely not saying they should be released to the wild, or oceanic pens. Just asking, because I don't know the costs and risks. I didn't necessarily mean "an oceanic pen that's still part of the park." I meant to let these whales "go" in the safest way, which may or may not be letting them live in oceanic pens where they're still cared for by SeaWorld specialists.

"How would Orlando fair in a market with an exploding Universal property and the Disney juggernaut without the Orca draw?"

That's precisely my point. First, I'd say SeaWorld can't compete with Universal and Disney. Even they probably don't claim to be trying to. Their zoological park (with a few thrill rides) simply shares a market with two huge international destination juggernauts. Secondly, the "Orca draw" appears to be waning. Has it reached the point where negative publicity from the orcas is actually hurting SeaWorld? Just as importantly, what if removing the orcas to oceanic pens, for example, gets a "Well... good... but I'm STILL not going to SeaWorld" from vocal activists and a portion of the general public?

I don't know. My point was that SeaWorld should explore all of its options and projections and hypotheses. As a layman third party with absolutely no personal or financial investment in the situation, it seems to me that SeaWorld without killer whales might stand a BETTER chance than today's SeaWorld. The idea that they HAVE to keep killer whales to be something seems to be the same mindset that they have.

The new exhibit pools seem to be a step in the right direction. I do question how much is "below the surface." Is it going to be much larger in size? Yes, and that's great. And up above, we humans will see beautiful rock work and waterfalls and geysers and fountains. My worry is that, below the water line, it'll still just be a big blue swimming pool.

I don't know. I really don't.