So what's up with this "power hour" crap on Banshee last night?

[The Interpreter]

For many years, VOLVO claimed the auto industry safety positioning. Ford was "Quality Is Job 1."

Nowadays, with Eyesight, Subaru seems to be claiming the once VOLVO safety throne.

[Dalefan]

For many years, VOLVO claimed the auto industry safety positioning. Ford was "Quality Is Job 1."

Nowadays, with Eyesight, Subaru seems to be claiming the once VOLVO safety throne.

When Ford bought Volvo, the safety of the cars went bye bye. I seen a show a few years back when the hosts did a crash test of the Volvo before and after the Ford buyout.

[The Interpreter]

And now the Chinese own it...

[Thrill_Biscuit]

When I read the thread title, I thought there was some kind of surge in Banshee ridership due to some special programming, like some kind of late-hour reduction in Fast Lane wristband prices or something. I never imagined it would be the practices mentioned above.

[Existential]

Do they have Power Tower Hower at Cedar Point? That would be cool.

Jeez, this power hour scheme would remind me of being Ralphie seeing Santa Claus before the store closed. Remember those elves? Hah!

[marth555]

Is it just me or does it seem like the Banshee crew was more efficient last year?

[Stylez]

Is it just me or does it seem like the Banshee crew was more efficient last year?

 

I suspect that it is a matter of early in the season with new employees.  Give it a few weeks of regular shifts and I am sure it will be back to fast speed.  Last year was indeed quick loading and unloading.  

[The Interpreter]

Perhaps it is just me, but safety, service and speed must be balanced. Every hour should have the same balance. Emphasizing speed more than usual means safety, service or both must be compromised. (Or it means speed is being comprised during non-power hours--a slacking crew--making them actually work during power hours? Not acceptable).

None of those willful compromises is acceptable. A trial lawyer, or team of them, would have a field day with this. I hope and pray they never get the chance.

What happens during power hour if a group of mobility impaired riders wants to ride? I shudder to think. Will they be demied service? Will they be adequately restrained and carefully checked! Or will some team leader's or corporate policy's goals cause service, safety or both to be forfeited?

Power hour?

Really!

[benny1388]

Jeez, this power hour scheme would remind me of being Ralphie seeing Santa Claus before the store closed. Remember those elves? Hah!

 

Honestly, that's a good comparison to how it felt for us Friday.

 

When we entered the station we were asked how many (3), rushed to a gate (which was already open), rushed to get into seats, only two of us were sent back through the gate because restraints on two of the seats had already been secured. So, this practice split our group up.

 

It was just by one train/ride, but had that been the 12 yr old (who is a new coaster rider) and not the 14 yr old...it could have been a very bad experience for him, and potentially his mom and me having to deal with the fallout of it.

[violakat03]

I didn't used to have an issue with Power Hours back in the early years of Diamondback. The station master was consistent with their announcements of it and even the separator was saying "we're doing a Power Hour to try to hit a new record, have your loose articles ready to hand across" etc. However, the one time I've seen Banshee do it this year I saw all the same problems being reported in this thread. Guest Service goes out the window. Safety is going out the window. I'm betting a short kid could VERY easily slip through on a Power Hour and no one would even notice it. What else might they miss?

Can we take a moment to address how awful the separators have been in general this year, Power Hour or not? I don't understand why they find it so difficult to count to 4. Even when not in a "rush" they can't manage it. It took the separator at BLSC 3 tries of walking back and forth between us and the gates to decide where to put 3 people. At Banshee we are constantly getting our group split up into different trains by the separator. We've had them let a group of equal size to ours in front of us to fill rows that we could have filled. It just boggles my mind how difficult they are finding this task. Want a challenge? Go be a separator at a Florida park. They don't need Power Hours to hit their capacity on those rides - they do it. In several cases, they do it or the ride shuts down. Add in the challenge that roughly 50% of the guests don't speak English, and they still manage to fill every seat. I spent entire shifts doing nothing but grouping at Dragon Challenge and even without a single rider line, I could fill most trains to capacity with no problems. I just don't get it. 6 rows. 2 seats per row. 18 people. You've got about 1 minute to fill them. There is nothing difficult in this equation. 

 

I hate being that person that complains about everything, but honestly, it's ridiculous. Separator should be the easiest job on the ride. It's straight forward. You aren't expected to be an information post like greeter. You aren't going to get a safety violation for missing something. Just fill the rows. Count to 4 (or 2). Pair up single riders. Send them to a row. Done. 

[shark6495]

I dont get why the seperator only sends enough for 1 train either.  You can have 2 trains ready to go (and really should) while 1 train is being loaded.  And what value does a separator really add to the rides?  I remember (old man thought) back in the day where you would just fill in all available rows.  Some people really wanted front seats, and some wanted others, but most guests would want to get on as quickly as possible.  We would negotiate with other people in line.  How many people are with you, etc.  You want to switch us we are trying to get our group together, etc.  The separators really bug me.  I honestly feel that the fast laners and the regular pop should be joined before the station.  For example at The Beast, the lines should be joined right before you separate for Front/Back.  On DB and Banshee, they should be joined before the stairs.  Have a person there to let those people into the main flow of the line. 

 

As for Power Hours, I look at them similar to what we would do in Rowing.  We were always competing to beat all other teams.  But if our Driver noticed we needed some extra concentration or power he or she would call out a Power 30 (30 strokes per minute).  Which meant we kept a quicker stronger pace for 10 strokes.  It helped get our mindset back into it.  Thats sort of what the Power Hour Should be for.  But I feel that it may not always be that way. 

 

And I'll be honest.  If my son would ever be hurt on a ride at KI or anywhere else during a "Power Hour" or any other reason because the workers didnt do their jobs.  I would use every last penny to sue and sue and sue the parks.  Not to make money as it wouldnt be worth the money, but to hurt them in a way that could be felt.....

[violakat03]

On 2-seat coasters it makes significantly more sense to pulse the station and let the guests sort themselves. In that situation the separator is essentially acting as traffic control, keeping the station from getting far too crowded, and allowing Fast Lane to merge in. In the Florida parks, there is a Merge position at almost every ride that allows for this to happen just prior to the station. Because of the way KI's queues have been built to accept Fast Lane riders, the merge and separator positions are the same, which makes sense at a seasonal park that doesn't need the throughput capabilities, nor has the staffing, to support a second employee there. 

 

However, you will never understand just how hard it is for people to count to 4 until you've worked a 4-seat coaster. In this situation I do support seat assigning when done correctly, otherwise you will have half a coaster going out empty because groups of 2 can't figure out how to group themselves with other groups of 2. But the separator needs to be able to do their job quickly and effectively. It can be done one train at a time - which is the best way to do it when working with groups of foreign individuals, because otherwise 8 people will try to board a row when the gates open - but you have to keep moving. Don't stop and second guess yourself. Know where your rows are. Have a system. Know where you have empty seats available. I always worked front to back with even groups, back to front with uneven groups, so that you meet in the middle with no more than 1 empty seat. There's no reason to deny seat requests either. I've never had to do it. If your front seat line is getting long, warn people it will be XX extra minutes - most of the time they will decide it's not worth it and go to another row when presented with the cold hard facts of how much extra time it will take. Four? Row two. 5? Three in row 8, two in row 7. Three? Row 3. 5? Two in row 7, three in row 6. It is NOT rocket science. I've noticed they tend to let Fast Lane seat themselves, then have to stop, recount each row, find their empties, and then figure out how many are in the group in front of them. If you have a pause where you aren't actively seating, find out how many people are in the first 2-3 groups. Then when you're in a crunch you don't even have to ask them, just send them to rows, and you've already filled 1/4 of your ride. 

[jsus]

However, you will never understand just how hard it is for people to count to 4 until you've worked a 4-seat coaster. In this situation I do support seat assigning when done correctly, otherwise you will have half a coaster going out empty because groups of 2 can't figure out how to group themselves with other groups of 2.

 

A significant number of guests I've witnessed don't even understand the concept of grouping up to make 4 as it is.  On Banshee a couple weekends back, two girls were sent into the queue that the two of us were in.  Four people.  We moved all the way down so they would have the left side.  Nope, they didn't even budge.  That begs the question..  How much does it really help to have someone group 4-across when not all riders will listen and a good number would end up grouping themselves anyway?  Quite often, we'll be asked by other guests if we want to fill in empty seats on the cycle in front of them.  *shrug*

[violakat03]

That's when the loaders need to be paying attention. Regrouping isn't an issue unless you let it be because you're blinded to what's going on around you. This is the biggest issue I have with Power Hours. They focus so much on throwing people in the seats and getting the train out that they are paying zero attention to anything else. When you're sending the train out and waiting for the next one to come in, you can be watching from the corner of your eye to make sure there are 4 people in each corral, all are the appropriate height and none have loose articles. If you see things all jumbled up, it's easy to correct. If you see two people board a row and two people stay behind when the gates open, you tell the other two to board. Empty seats are the direct result of a ride operator failing to fill them, whether it's a separator, or a loader. Yes, guests will try to regroup themselves or not board when they're supposed to, but it only takes a second to straighten that out and fill the row. The separator position can keep an eye on guests in the corrals in between trains if they are filling the rows with adequate speed to give themselves downtime and that keeps regrouping from happening. 

 

I guess I just don't understand why they have so many problems with it because I've been in that position, arguably in a much more challenging situation (faster dispatches and a huge language barrier), and have never had any of these problems, even when I first started learning the position. Grouper (the position name at every other park I've worked at) is considered one of the easier positions, but everyone knows that the ride's capacity relies largely on that job being done correctly. The grouper can make or break an hour. 

[shark6495]

On 2-seat coasters it makes significantly more sense to pulse the station and let the guests sort themselves. In that situation the separator is essentially acting as traffic control, keeping the station from getting far too crowded, and allowing Fast Lane to merge in. In the Florida parks, there is a Merge position at almost every ride that allows for this to happen just prior to the station. Because of the way KI's queues have been built to accept Fast Lane riders, the merge and separator positions are the same, which makes sense at a seasonal park that doesn't need the throughput capabilities, nor has the staffing, to support a second employee there. 

 

However, you will never understand just how hard it is for people to count to 4 until you've worked a 4-seat coaster. In this situation I do support seat assigning when done correctly, otherwise you will have half a coaster going out empty because groups of 2 can't figure out how to group themselves with other groups of 2. But the separator needs to be able to do their job quickly and effectively. It can be done one train at a time - which is the best way to do it when working with groups of foreign individuals, because otherwise 8 people will try to board a row when the gates open - but you have to keep moving. Don't stop and second guess yourself. Know where your rows are. Have a system. Know where you have empty seats available. I always worked front to back with even groups, back to front with uneven groups, so that you meet in the middle with no more than 1 empty seat. There's no reason to deny seat requests either. I've never had to do it. If your front seat line is getting long, warn people it will be XX extra minutes - most of the time they will decide it's not worth it and go to another row when presented with the cold hard facts of how much extra time it will take. Four? Row two. 5? Three in row 8, two in row 7. Three? Row 3. 5? Two in row 7, three in row 6. It is NOT rocket science. I've noticed they tend to let Fast Lane seat themselves, then have to stop, recount each row, find their empties, and then figure out how many are in the group in front of them. If you have a pause where you aren't actively seating, find out how many people are in the first 2-3 groups. Then when you're in a crunch you don't even have to ask them, just send them to rows, and you've already filled 1/4 of your ride. 

 

I totally get what you are saying, but in the way its happening now, it just doesnt work.  I have seen them send out half empty coasters with a full line.  Its like they wont fill the que until the new coaster comes and parks and then we have to rush up to jump on the ride.

Okay the fast laners and the general pop merge at the same point of seat assigning, then you better have a system.  It really appears that the seat assigner, pulsar, separator just keeps the station empty.  I dont claim to know how hard or how easy that job is, but the way you described it makes it seem fairly easy or easier than the way most at KI do it. 

 

If it was up to me and you keep the FL and general pop merging at the assignment station, then you should do it this way...  Have an idea of the train you are filling.  If a FP shows up that group goes onto your next train....

 

You did it in another park, which was probably much busier.  How does KI manage to not have competent training for these people?

[benny1388]

I wish someone would tell that crew running Banshee there's no reason to deny seat requests. Like I said in a previous post, I would understand if there was an extended wait and they were just trying to make sure people waiting got one last ride in, but this wasn't the case at all. We rode twice, back-to-back, because the wait was so short (partly due to the crew, granted) and we were hoping that we'd get front on the luck of the draw. Even on Saturday as a group of 4 (aka a full row), all chutes were empty and we were not allowed to pick our row - no matching/paring was necessary. Maybe I just don't get it having never worked as a ride operator.

 

I have been going to parks and riding rides for as long as I can remember and this weekend was the first time I have ever been told by park employee I didn't have the option to wait longer for a front row seat. Why is there a longer chute for people to queue in if the ride ops aren't going to allow people the option? This is also the first time my group has been separated by a park employee on a ride in any park. They didn't ask, either, they rushed us through and my stepson was strapped in and his mom and I were told to go back through the gate and wait for the next train (he rode with two empty seats next to him).

 

I am willing to overlook this past weekend's events as a fluke. However, I will not be a happy customer and will complain to guest services at every occurrence (within reason) in the future if my family and I are not permitted to enjoy the rides (or, rather, have our method of enjoyment dictated to us by ride operators). I know that could sound entitled, but I don't visit an amusement park to not be amused...

[violakat03]

 

 

I totally get what you are saying, but in the way its happening now, it just doesnt work.  I have seen them send out half empty coasters with a full line.  Its like they wont fill the que until the new coaster comes and parks and then we have to rush up to jump on the ride.

Okay the fast laners and the general pop merge at the same point of seat assigning, then you better have a system.  It really appears that the seat assigner, pulsar, separator just keeps the station empty.  I dont claim to know how hard or how easy that job is, but the way you described it makes it seem fairly easy or easier than the way most at KI do it. 

 

 

 

 

Dear quote box, why are you dumb? Anyway.

 

You nailed it. They wait too long to fill it. Keep your gates full. You have to give yourself enough time for people to be difficult. Not everyone is going to cooperate. You're going to have seat requests. You're going to have height checks. You're going to have someone get to the platform with something they aren't supposed to have. 32 people are not just going to appear in their correct spot in 10 seconds. You need to have every gate filled and be ready to start filling them again by the time the train parks. Take the time that the loaders are checking restraints to fill your gates. You should be done by the time the next train is starting to enter the station. That gives you a breather while you wait for it to park. Find out how many people are in the next couple groups. Gates open, start filling the corrals again. People don't like running from line to ride and it makes them less cooperative and gives you less time to sort out mistakes. If Fast Lane comes up mid-train, they wait until the next one. Alternate between the two queues. Yes, you want to get the priority boarders out of your face (they are the most annoying) but they can wait one train. Even two. If the group you have in front of you isn't the right size to finish filing the row, pull from the other queue. Again, this is not rocket science. 

 

Going back to the issue of Power Hours and safety: With how long they are waiting to fill the gates, are the separators even checking height? And even more importantly, are the loaders assuming everyone has been height checked by the time they reach the train? That's a recipe for disaster. 

[violakat03]

 

I have been going to parks and riding rides for as long as I can remember and this weekend was the first time I have ever been told by park employee I didn't have the option to wait longer for a front row seat. Why is there a longer chute for people to queue in if the ride ops aren't going to allow people the option? This is also the first time my group has been separated by a park employee on a ride in any park. They didn't ask, either, they rushed us through and my stepson was strapped in and his mom and I were told to go back through the gate and wait for the next train (he rode with two empty seats next to him).

 

 

That is so unacceptable that there are no words. It is NEVER okay to split a child from their parents. You handled it with far more grace than I, or many others, would have.

 

And there is also really no reason to deny seat requests unless that row is legitimately full or you have nowhere to put them. This was the case at Mystery Mine. With only two rows, and well over half of the riders wanting the front row, there was no way to grant seat requests. We simply had nowhere to put them as our corrals were only big enough to hold four people at a time. And it's not like it was that big of a deal with only two rows. Come back later, you've got a 50/50 shot of getting the row you want. 

[benny1388]

 

 

I have been going to parks and riding rides for as long as I can remember and this weekend was the first time I have ever been told by park employee I didn't have the option to wait longer for a front row seat. Why is there a longer chute for people to queue in if the ride ops aren't going to allow people the option? This is also the first time my group has been separated by a park employee on a ride in any park. They didn't ask, either, they rushed us through and my stepson was strapped in and his mom and I were told to go back through the gate and wait for the next train (he rode with two empty seats next to him).

 

 

That is so unacceptable that there are no words. It is NEVER okay to split a child from their parents. You handled it with far more grace than I, or many others, would have.

 

And there is also really no reason to deny seat requests unless that row is legitimately full or you have nowhere to put them. This was the case at Mystery Mine. With only two rows, and well over half of the riders wanting the front row, there was no way to grant seat requests. We simply had nowhere to put them as our corrals were only big enough to hold four people at a time. And it's not like it was that big of a deal with only two rows. Come back later, you've got a 50/50 shot of getting the row you want. 

 

 

Had it been the youngest, and not the oldest, he would have freaked out (he's a newbie to coasters). From what I saw of that crew, I firmly believe they would have gone ahead and run the train with him freaking out (because I don't think they would have noticed, honestly).

 

He's old enough to take care of himself, so we just let it slide.

[violakat03]

I wish you had complained. That's a huge safety issue. Not that he would have been hurt on the ride, but that he would have been by himself afterwards. He was with you for a reason and regardless of his age, it is completely unacceptable. If that ever happens again, please do us all a favor and pitch the biggest fit you possibly can. Make them call out a rides manager. Maybe you will be the one to help end this unsafe and ridiculous practice and make them realize that SAFETY is the first concern and it is being put aside for capacity. 

[shark6495]

I wish someone would tell that crew running Banshee there's no reason to deny seat requests. Like I said in a previous post, I would understand if there was an extended wait and they were just trying to make sure people waiting got one last ride in, but this wasn't the case at all. We rode twice, back-to-back, because the wait was so short (partly due to the crew, granted) and we were hoping that we'd get front on the luck of the draw. Even on Saturday as a group of 4 (aka a full row), all chutes were empty and we were not allowed to pick our row - no matching/paring was necessary. Maybe I just don't get it having never worked as a ride operator.

 

I have been going to parks and riding rides for as long as I can remember and this weekend was the first time I have ever been told by park employee I didn't have the option to wait longer for a front row seat. Why is there a longer chute for people to queue in if the ride ops aren't going to allow people the option? This is also the first time my group has been separated by a park employee on a ride in any park. They didn't ask, either, they rushed us through and my stepson was strapped in and his mom and I were told to go back through the gate and wait for the next train (he rode with two empty seats next to him).

 

I am willing to overlook this past weekend's events as a fluke. However, I will not be a happy customer and will complain to guest services at every occurrence (within reason) in the future if my family and I are not permitted to enjoy the rides (or, rather, have our method of enjoyment dictated to us by ride operators). I know that could sound entitled, but I don't visit an amusement park to not be amused...

 

You are a 100% better man than I.  I would have not stepped off the ride platform.  Man oh Man..... Maybe Im in a fighting mood but...

[benny1388]

I'm good at pitching fits. It's a family trait.

 

As far as him being with us for a reason, it's not for any safety reason. He's 14 and relatively independent, if he had a friend on the trip with us, he probably wouldn't have been with us at that moment. That's why we let it slide.

[violakat03]

For you, it's not. But what if he had severe allergies and you had his Epi Pen? Or if he was autistic? Or he had a panic attack on the ride? I understand that it's not a big deal for you, but what these ride operators have to realize and understand is that it COULD be a big deal. 

[benny1388]

For you, it's not. But what if he had severe allergies and you had his Epi Pen? Or if he was autistic? Or he had a panic attack on the ride? I understand that it's not a big deal for you, but what these ride operators have to realize and understand is that it COULD be a big deal. 

 

That, I fully agree with.

 

Like I said, had it been his little brother, there's NO WAY we would have stood for it.

[acfinn]

So Banshee will not allow people to wait longer for the front car??? That seems odd as I was under the impression that is why the extra long line was there.

Also, I am very often a single rider as my wife does not ride and we usually go just the two of us. What is the etiquette here? I did get a dirty look from some people when I waited for the front seat on The Beast at night a couple weeks ago. I don't feel like it should be up to me to pair up.

[silver2005]

I feel whoever designed Banshee's station was foreign to the concept that coasters, particularly inverted coasters, get long lines for the front seat.  The station seriously needs the extended front seat line like Diamondback has.  That and since its 4 across, that line isn't as long as it looks.  

[electricsun]

So Banshee will not allow people to wait longer for the front car??? That seems odd as I was under the impression that is why the extra long line was there.

Also, I am very often a single rider as my wife does not ride and we usually go just the two of us. What is the etiquette here? I did get a dirty look from some people when I waited for the front seat on The Beast at night a couple weeks ago. I don't feel like it should be up to me to pair up.

I think it's a personal preference. I'm often a single rider and I don't feel bad anymore about picking a particular row or seat. Banshee is great as you typically get an outside seat - I just like to ask first so I don't get sandwiched between two strangers. I will pick the even numbered rows on Diamondback so I can ride with someone or someone can ride with me. I just ask the person first before assuming - some folks would prefer to ride alone. I've also had parents ask to have their child ride with me while they are riding with a another child in the next row - apparently I'm way more approachable to children than adults! So...well, really, lots of options. Unless there is appropriate etiquette and I break every.single.rule. 

[Magenta Lizard]

I generally won't hop on with another single except on DB on even rows (I don't ask, and don't expect others to ask: you're closer to the person in the odd row, if you don't want me sitting "next" to you, tough ), unless I'm assigned (which is rare, other than on Banshee). My personal policy is never to refuse if anyone asks to hop on with /me/, though. I usually don't mind riding with someone new, but I also like to give others their space if they want it.

I can't understand why someone would give you a dirty look for waiting for front seat for Beast as a single, unless they wanted to hop on with you and you refused or something. It's no different to them than a pair of people waiting for it.

I think I'm more intimidating to children than adults, if I were to go by who I've ended up riding with.

[benny1388]

So Banshee will not allow people to wait longer for the front car???

 

There was a crew or two Friday and Saturday that were directing people to empty rows and basically disregarding the riders' desire for a particular row.

 

On the other topics of being a single rider...you have as much right to queue for the front as you do for the middle or the back no matter if you're solo or a pair, or four (depending on the ride, of course). If anybody doesn't like it, that's their problem. With at least one train stacking on almost every ride, you've "delayed" their ride by maybe 90 seconds, tops.

[MysticsTimber]

So Banshee will not allow people to wait longer for the front car??? That seems odd as I was under the impression that is why the extra long line was there.

Also, I am very often a single rider as my wife does not ride and we usually go just the two of us. What is the etiquette here? I did get a dirty look from some people when I waited for the front seat on The Beast at night a couple weeks ago. I don't feel like it should be up to me to pair up.

I think it's a personal preference. I'm often a single rider and I don't feel bad anymore about picking a particular row or seat. Banshee is great as you typically get an outside seat - I just like to ask first so I don't get sandwiched between two strangers. I will pick the even numbered rows on Diamondback so I can ride with someone or someone can ride with me. I just ask the person first before assuming - some folks would prefer to ride alone. I've also had parents ask to have their child ride with me while they are riding with a another child in the next row - apparently I'm way more approachable to children than adults! So...well, really, lots of options. Unless there is appropriate etiquette and I break every.single.rule.

I am particularly a single rider during most of my visits to Kings Island. Lately on Diamondback I've been able to choose where I want to sit. Usually I don't ask anyone to ride with me, but if another single rider wants to join me, then by all means, the more the merrier. As a single rider on Banshee, rarely have I been able to choose my poison. But either way I'll be paired up with three other strangers making it very awkward during the ride.

My opinion on this "Power Hour" thing. After skimming through this thread, it seems that people are very unhappy. I think that this is very unnecessary. This is making guests feel very uncomfortable and crews are very disrespectful and rude. I've haven't been to the park this year during a "Power Hour" so I have no experience. If you're trying to reach a certain capacity by the end of the day, just let the guests come by and go at their own pace.