Cinci Zoo Gorilla Death

[The Interpreter]

Mom defends self, then deletes; Jack Hanna speaks:

http://www.people.com/people/mobile/article/0,,21009685,00.html

[KIfan73]

First, you have to be glad the kid is OK.  Second, I really feel for the zoo workers on this.  What a tough, but obvious, choice (a "when all else fails" plan they most likely had trained for) they had to make with an animal they have cared for for so long.  

[The Interpreter]

The gorilla arrived from Texas about a year ago.

[freaks76]

Wonder what the gorilla's attitude towards humans was before yesterday.

[Browntggrr]

Horrible situation.

Glad the boy is ok even if the correct decision was made.

[dtk1378]

Wonder what the gorilla's attitude towards humans was before yesterday.

 

Most animals at the zoo have little to no interaction with humans with the exception of the smaller animals that pose no threat. Of course they will see the humans when they get fed and when there is people looking at them, but really other than that that's about it, they are usually sedated when they need medical attention.

[freaks76]

^ Yea with their trainers and feedings is what I meant. They have to have some human interaction. I would guess, anyway.

[LoraX]

I don't get a lot of things about this. From reports I have read, people or a person heard him say he wanted to play with them and the mom was distracted. Looks like the bystanders would have said something and alerted the mom or tried to stop the child themselves since they obviously were paying enough attention to their interactions.

I think what upsets me is how little emotion was in what I presume the mom's voice. She didn't sound upset. While some people can be calm under unusual circumstances, having a young child in a gorilla cage should provoke more of a response of panic. Or maybe that's just me.

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[shark6495]

So I've thought about this some more. We teach our kids to take responsibility. Doesn't matter about the silverback being shot or the height of the fence or that toddlers are sneaky and fast. The parent shoulders the blame of the child getting into the attraction.

When you have a child you change your parenting ability and radar based on the inherent danger. If I'm walking with my son on the side walk I put myself between him and the road, I'm watching him and keeping an eye and an ear for cars. If he were to dart into traffic it's not the side walks fault. It's mine. If we are at home or in a fenced in park my guard goes down slightly.

When my son is staring at the tiger through the glass I'm keeping my eye on him so he doesn't try to break in or get stollen. Higher risk area.

What if this kid didn't just wander into the gorilla enclosure. What if he got stollen. The mom would be saying it happened so quick.

Yes kids are quick but if my son chokes on something it's not the food or his fault it's because I didn't do enough to make it safe.

My heart breaks for this mom because the thought makes me sick. But I refuse to not blame the mom for not watching her son. Our kids are our responsibility. Not the zoo, not society, but us as parents.

I pray that my son never does anything like this but I also make sure to minimize this situation from ever happening. We go to the zoo we go to KI. We go to many public and dangerous spots. But my job is to put myself in a position to keep him safe. If he's in danger I have failed.

This lady failed that day as a parent. Maybe she's a great parent maybe she's not. But that day at that time she failed. Is it wrong that Maybe CPS should talk to her? No. Maybe she needs the help. Maybe it's her one time (we all have one time, or more like multiple). But she failed her son that day. Maybe the kid is always running off maybe his was his first. It doesn't matter the ape was killed the mom didn't do her parental job of watching her child.

It makes me sick to think about and will serve as a reminder of why I'm so strict when watching my son. Why we practice go and stop. Why I tell people who are with me at public places that I have to stop talking because I'm watching my son.

Sorry if that's a long read. But something I needed to say

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[shark6495]

I don't get a lot of things about this. From reports I have read, people or a person heard him say he wanted to play with them and the mom was distracted. Looks like the bystanders would have said something and alerted the mom or tried to stop the child themselves since they obviously were paying enough attention to their interactions.

I think what upsets me is how little emotion was in what I presume the mom's voice. She didn't sound upset. While some people can be calm under unusual circumstances, having a young child in a gorilla cage should provoke more of a response of panic. Or maybe that's just me.

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One of the bystanders was with her one or two kids and tried to reach for him but was already too far out. I would like to think I'd jump the railing for a strangers kid but not if it meant leaving mine unattended.... Doesn't suppose to sound harsh but I get why she didn't jump the fence herself.

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[Kenban]

It is easy to second guess decisions.  I have a hard time defending the mother but I feel reluctant to attack her too much.  But the zoo and the response team had to make a decision, they do not have the luxury of time, and have no second chance if something goes wrong.  It is easy to sit in front of a keyboard and say the zoo should have done something differently.  The zoo did what they thought was best at the time.  I watched the video and wonder what else happened but I have seen pictures with the child out of the water up on the grass above.  From my perspective the zoo did the right thing.  

[shark6495]

I don't think she needs to be attacked but saying it's her fault the kid got away is not attacking but placing blame where it belongs. This isn't about the great ape, but her child. She doesn't deserve jail time but maybe we need a law or something where CPS investigates when a child gets lost or does something like this.

Not to take away the child but to help the parent. Maybe she needs help maybe she doesn't.

But it's terrifying that so many are defending that children run away so quickly.

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[Outdoor Man]

WLWT released this video. This wasn't from wlwt's site but is same video.

[Outdoor Man]

Honestly, I think what we don't need is thousands of people who weren't there suddenly becoming experts on what happened and what steps should have been taken.

I also don't think we need our over-reactive society to force litigation over this so that in a few years after millions of dollars in legal fees are spent we wonder why the zoo is so expensive.

Anyone with young kids knows that under an even watchful eye kids disappear in seconds. Parks, airports, Kings Island... only to find out they were right behind us. This is a 40 year exception to the rule. While I don't reasonably expect a 4 year old to understand cause and effect, I also wouldn't believe that a 4 year old of mine would try to go into an animal enclosure.

Just unfortunate on all fronts. 

[Voicetek]

I find this to be ironic...

 

Looks like this lady runs a daycare:

http://latest.com/2016/05/mom-of-boy-who-fell-into-gorilla-enclosure-runs-a-daycare/

[Oldiesmann]

USDA to review gorilla's death; zoo to look at safety of exhibits: http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/05/30/usda-review-gorillas-death-zoo-look-safety-exhibits/85165924/

[shark6495]

Before I read the daycare thing I wondered what people would think or say if it was a teacher who lost one of her kids.

once I realized where the preschool/daycare is located, I've driven by it many times and probably wouldn't send my kid there but it had received a 2 and 3 star ratings out of 5 from magazines and such (before this event)

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[Oldiesmann]

Some thoughts on the subject from the Humane Society. http://blog.humanesociety.org/wayne/2016/05/remembering-harambe-the-gorilla.html?credit=blog_em_053116_id8187

[Oldiesmann]

Cincinnati Police Department is reviewing the facts of the case regarding the actions of the parents/family,"consistent with department policies": https://twitter.com/CincinnatiPD/status/737746953111506944/photo/1

[The Interpreter]

I was stunned when the police department originally said there would be no charges pursued. Police don't get to make those decisions. Prosecutors do. I'd liked to have been a fly on the wall when the prosecutors' office contacted the police department. I bet that conversation was .... interesting.

[Oldiesmann]

Lots more news on this, so I'll try to keep it all in one post this time...

 

From National Geographic - Harambe's Behavior May Have Been Normal Gorilla Play: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/05/harambe-gorillas-behaviors-zoos-animals/

 

WLW reports that a group called Stop Animal Exploitation Now is filing a complaint with the USDA against the zoo, claiming the barriers were unsafe: http://www.700wlw.com/articles/local-news-119585/animal-activist-group-files-complaint-against-14765459/

 

CNN has reached out to animal expert Jeff Corwin who wants to let everyone know that the zoo isn't your babysitter: http://cnn.it/1O0cjbX

[freaks76]

The more I think about this one, the more I'm wondering, what really is the best course of action?

 

On one hand, you have the mother, who should have been had a better eye on her young'en. That's was something I thought from the time I first heard this story. But on the other hand, If they prosecute her, throw her in jail and fine the crap out of her, who's that gonna hurt more, her or her child? Locking her up might just make, what probably was, a traumatic situation for the kid and making it worse. To the four year old all he'll understand is mommy's not here any more. And fining might just take food off the table for her child(ren). 

 

And on the zoo's end, how do you have an oversight that big? Maybe an outside third party need to come in and look over the whole place. It's crazy to think that a child can climb in a cage with a massive creature that could tear you to pieces in a matter of seconds if it wanted to. Luckily....

 

I've thought about this one pretty hard, and flip flopped how I feel about the whole situation. I do feel something needs to be done, and people held accountable for their actions. What's the best way, though? 

 

I just feel the whole thing was careless and avoidable.

[Browntggrr]

Of course it was careless and avoidable, but it happened.

Was the mother careless? Yes. At one point being a parent situations like this do happen, but luckily, a large percentage do not end up like this.

The zoo is not at fault, but they are being held responsible for the necessary actions taken. There is no doubt the zoo did not want to kill the animal, but due to the situation at hand, had no choice. If a trainer entered the enclosure, the animal could go into over protection mode and attempt to bring the child out of harms way which could end up killing the child. Take a look at how the animal dragged the child- much like how the animal treats their own offspring- but not a human being.

Can the zoo do more? Sure. But at what cost? (which eventually falls onto you and me).

Should the mother be charged? No. No malicious intent was there and as long as this is the first time it has happened, there is no reason to make a bad situation worse.

The zoo did what it had to do to save the life of the child. If the child would have died, the animal would still be dead.

Now there are 2 innocent lives lost.

[Oldiesmann]

An actual expert weighs in on the gorilla's behavior: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1203379103029809&set=a.136952966339100.18704.100000731932790&type=3

[Browntggrr]

Double post.

[The Interpreter]

Perhaps we should let the investigators investigate before reaching conclusions.

[Browntggrr]

An actual expert weighs in on the gorilla's behavior: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1203379103029809&set=a.136952966339100.18704.100000731932790&type=3

Excellent article! Thanks for sharing on our forum!

[shark6495]

The more I think about this one, the more I'm wondering, what really is the best course of action?

On one hand, you have the mother, who should have been had a better eye on her young'en. That's was something I thought from the time I first heard this story. But on the other hand, If they prosecute her, throw her in jail and fine the crap out of her, who's that gonna hurt more, her or her child? Locking her up might just make, what probably was, a traumatic situation for the kid and making it worse. To the four year old all he'll understand is mommy's not here any more. And fining might just take food off the table for her child(ren).

.

This comes from anecdotal evidence of working with children and parents who have had and gotten their children back from CPS (child protective services) and others who didn't. Well depending on the prosecution from the police this info may not be useful.

Many times when CPS investigates the last thing they want to do is separate or break up families for the reasons you stated. So as long as the family doesn't pose an active threat to the well being of the child or children then the kids won't be pulled away.

In most cases, CPS will set up the family with a case worker or put in some parameters to help the family.

**often times when the family has to be broken up its to allow the parent or parents time to get their lives on track**

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[shark6495]

700 WLW is reporting that the family has made two different statements this morning.

1: the young boy (named Isaiah in video but not named officially) is doing well

2: they have received money and gifts. For future money and gifts they are asking the donors to send it to the zoo in Harambe's name.

700 WLW also reports that the family is refusing all interview requests, the police are investigating for criminal charges, and the exhibit reopens Saturday. The zoo is making adjustments to the exhibit this week.

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[APE]

The zoo did the right thing, while the gorilla may not have been "attacking" he was displaying as male gorillas do to intimidate. Normally when they do this it is with a fairly large object and they drag it around and bang it into things making a lot of noise. Can't tranquilize the gorilla as it will agitate him and he will kill the boy. Can't send someone in because the gorilla will attack while displaying or even protecting then you have an adult as well and a toddler that most likely gets killed.

 

The thing that annoys me about this whole story is how everyone digs their heels in to blame one side or the other.  Maybe instead of pointing the finger at one person look at the whole situation. I have yet to read the exact amount of time the boy had to climb into the enclosure. To me a little blame is placed on everyone involved. The mom for being distracted (but what parent hasn't been with multiple kids at some point), The zoo for having an enclosure that is accessible to anyone let alone a small child ( I know its been opened since 78 and had no incidents but obviously worst case scenario wasn't planned for), and to an extent the people close to the boy when he climbed in. Though its not my child if I see a kid climbing over the rail I am pulling him back over or not letting him get to the top in the first place. People supposedly heard him saying it and there was a lot of people around the area yet none thought to help prevent it even though it is the moms job? I feel bad for everyone involved on this and the only negative thing I will say about the mom is that I saw her Facebook post and I felt it was ridiculous that she showed no remorse for the gorilla being put down.