Kings Island Searches for Executive Chef

[Losantiville Mining Co.]

I really like the idea of the point system and how it works. That said, it makes me wonder how idiot-proof it might be. ("Idiot" is a strong word, but the point is there.) The amount of posts I'd expect to see with people confused about the change would be a high number.

The point system would also do well for fixing the Meal item vs Snack item division. A simple hamburger meal could be 1 point, a cheeseburger with toppings could be 2 points, and a funnel cake could be 3 points. I think anything above 3 point tiers would get confusing. It might also be nice for Pass Perks since they'd be able to give a +1 food point reward. I'll have to see if I can think more about your idea after I get home from work!

[brenthodge]

6 hours ago, Losantiville Mining Co. said:

I really like the idea of the point system and how it works. That said, it makes me wonder how idiot-proof it might be. ("Idiot" is a strong word, but the point is there.) The amount of posts I'd expect to see with people confused about the change would be a high number.

The point system would also do well for fixing the Meal item vs Snack item division. A simple hamburger meal could be 1 point, a cheeseburger with toppings could be 2 points, and a funnel cake could be 3 points. I think anything above 3 point tiers would get confusing. It might also be nice for Pass Perks since they'd be able to give a +1 food point reward. I'll have to see if I can think more about your idea after I get home from work!

Oh, the idiots would loose their minds. Lol

[disco2000]

Yep, look how many people got confused on FB with the "I have a gold pass and want to add a meal plan, but they have a price for silver, gold, prestige, and all park.  Which one do I buy?"

[Losantiville Mining Co.]

I think they actually made it just one price for everything, no matter the pass type nor what parks it can access (another reason they're "losing money" on meal plans). 

 

On to more about the Dining Points system idea: here's what else I've thought up.

• 3 tiers of Points (listed with price values even though they won't exactly line up)
  • 1 Dining Point — A simple salad, burger, hot dog, or chicken tender basket. The Classic Chee from Tom + Chee would fit well in this category. $10-ish value.
  • 2 Dining Points — A hamburger/cheeseburger with toppings, anything from Panda Express, or the Pep + Chee. The Chef's Special or any of the Festival Food items could fit well here. $15-ish value.
  • 3 Dining Points — A funnel cake, cup of Dippin' Dots, ice cream cone, or . $20-ish value.
  • No amount of Dining Points can be used for meals like the Mother's Day Lunch, Fright Feast, or Winterfest Buffet (should any of those return).
  • Each park could have a Pass Perk of 1 additional dining point once or twice per season.
• Each meal comes with a side, but items like funnel cakes and Dippin' Dots (obviously) do not. Marked as it already is on menus. Generally the same as the current system.
• 2 tiers of Dining Plans (plan works at whatever parks the guest's pass works at)
  • 1 Dining Point Plan ($99) — Each guest receives 1 Dining Point to use per day and an extra 5% food & beverage discount. Price reflects the possibility of getting 10 meals throughout the season to consider it "paid off".
  • 3 Dining Point Plan ($199) — Each guest receives 3 Dining Points to use per day and an extra 7% F&B discount. Price reflects the possibility of getting a minimum of 10 meals throughout the season to consider it "paid off".
• The Single Meal Deal stays the same with no point totals involved. ($25)
• The All-Day Dining Plan stays the same, though the distinction between Meals and Snacks is removed and the price is increased. ($60)
• The Premium All-Day Dining Plan stays the same, though the price is increased. ($85)
• Points do not accumulate, nor do they roll over.

I contemplated a few other ideas, but felt that they would either complicate the system too much or be too similar to the current system. If the new and old systems are too similar then I think guests will just see the changes as a money grab. The prices need to go up a little either way. Someone with more business experience can say more, but those are my thoughts in the moment.

 

These don't really solve the issue of people using their meal plans to come get lunch every day, but I think it splits up the pricing more evenly compared to the current system where everything is one price. I still think most passholders barely break even on their dining plans based off of my personal dining plan tracking. There's not a great way to actually limit guests from getting $800 worth of food per season without putting a numerical restriction on how many times it can be redeemed. Legacy Six Flags tried that and it failed. 

[brenthodge]

3 hours ago, Losantiville Mining Co. said:

I think they actually made it just one price for everything, no matter the pass type nor what parks it can access (another reason they're "losing money" on meal plans). 

 

On to more about the Dining Points system idea: here's what else I've thought up.

• 3 tiers of Points (listed with price values even though they won't exactly line up)
  • 1 Dining Point — A simple salad, burger, hot dog, or chicken tender basket. The Classic Chee from Tom + Chee would fit well in this category. $10-ish value.
  • 2 Dining Points — A hamburger/cheeseburger with toppings, anything from Panda Express, or the Pep + Chee. The Chef's Special or any of the Festival Food items could fit well here. $15-ish value.
  • 3 Dining Points — A funnel cake, cup of Dippin' Dots, ice cream cone, or . $20-ish value.
  • No amount of Dining Points can be used for meals like the Mother's Day Lunch, Fright Feast, or Winterfest Buffet (should any of those return).
  • Each park could have a Pass Perk of 1 additional dining point once or twice per season.
• Each meal comes with a side, but items like funnel cakes and Dippin' Dots (obviously) do not. Marked as it already is on menus. Generally the same as the current system.
• 2 tiers of Dining Plans (plan works at whatever parks the guest's pass works at)
  • 1 Dining Point Plan ($99) — Each guest receives 1 Dining Point to use per day and an extra 5% food & beverage discount. Price reflects the possibility of getting 10 meals throughout the season to consider it "paid off".
  • 3 Dining Point Plan ($199) — Each guest receives 3 Dining Points to use per day and an extra 7% F&B discount. Price reflects the possibility of getting a minimum of 10 meals throughout the season to consider it "paid off".
• The Single Meal Deal stays the same with no point totals involved. ($25)
• The All-Day Dining Plan stays the same, though the distinction between Meals and Snacks is removed and the price is increased. ($60)
• The Premium All-Day Dining Plan stays the same, though the price is increased. ($85)
• Points do not accumulate, nor do they roll over.

I contemplated a few other ideas, but felt that they would either complicate the system too much or be too similar to the current system. If the new and old systems are too similar then I think guests will just see the changes as a money grab. The prices need to go up a little either way. Someone with more business experience can say more, but those are my thoughts in the moment.

 

These don't really solve the issue of people using their meal plans to come get lunch every day, but I think it splits up the pricing more evenly compared to the current system where everything is one price. I still think most passholders barely break even on their dining plans based off of my personal dining plan tracking. There's not a great way to actually limit guests from getting $800 worth of food per season without putting a numerical restriction on how many times it can be redeemed. Legacy Six Flags tried that and it failed. 

Overall what I was going with, but I would make the funnel cake/snack option 1 point instead and have a very limited selection of those items - maybe even a smaller size like the drink plan cup is. Could be as simple as small soft serve ice cream, classic funnel cake, plain fries, chips - basically anything the location would be doing anyway but no additional toppings or options.

Agree that the "Premium Experiences" should be point-excluded, but you would get a season pass discount on those.

I like that it's limited to 3 points pr visit. You could eat 3 classic items, or one classic and one signature, or a signature and a treat pr visit. I also still feel there should be no time limit, so if I want to eat my signature meal and an hour later get my plain soft serve, I shouldn't have to stay 4 hours - it give the perception of a lot of "control" to the customer.

[BeeastFarmer]

The thing I liked about Cedar Fair vs Six Flags was the simplicity of, for the most part, the CF pricing structure.

Platinum pass= all park access.

Drink plan= choose paper or plastic and get a refill every 15 minutes.

Meal plan= two meals per visit with four hours in between.

Six Flags was more convoluted. You can buy a pass at Labor Day but it has to be activated at that park by November first ( but the park is closed the majority of that time frame)

You have to have a plastic cup.

I never really used the meal plan extensively, but the year I had it, it was fairly easy, but the food choices were limited. 

With many things, the company is making things more complicated. If you change the meal plan to be more complicated, it would add to that.

Once the company stabilizes, and can actually start to "premiumize" as Bassoul called it, that would be the time to pivot, not now. 

Current strategy is to pivot to the lowest common denominator, which is cheap pass prices.  I would conjecture that they still make a killer profit from the meal plan.  Not every park is KI with a huge season pass base, they likely use the law of averages.  And with moving away from locally sourced food to national distribution for bulk prices, the cost per meal is probably lower now, even with increased prices in general nationwide.

They have made a killing on me, as I have only redeemed it four times because I just don't go often enough, and I bought it last year out of habit, not thinking I would continue staying away from the parks. 

[Losantiville Mining Co.]

18 hours ago, brenthodge said:

Overall what I was going with, but I would make the funnel cake/snack option 1 point instead and have a very limited selection of those items - maybe even a smaller size like the drink plan cup is. Could be as simple as small soft serve ice cream, classic funnel cake, plain fries, chips - basically anything the location would be doing anyway but no additional toppings or options.

I decided to keep the snacks at 3 Points since they seem to be a premium option, but changing the serving size could help bring them down to 1 Point items. That's the kind of thing I think we'd need to see actual numbers for though. Either way I think I'll need to keep researching the other park dining plans to get a better grasp on what else is out there. The newest version of the Disney Dining Plan feels really confusing, but it might just be that I'm not actually booking a resort stay so it's not giving clearer information.

 

As for the current situation it all comes back to the idea that Cedar Fair/the new Six Flags have dug themselves into a hole with the dining plans. Keep the system as-is? Get told you're losing money. Remove the system entirely? Food and beverage sales decline drastically and guests are upset with regular theme park pricing. Change it? Run the risk of making the new system far too complicated. I can't imagine the Legacy Membership folks will be happy with more complications to their benefits either. If there are any changes, I think it would be a good idea to put up big signage around the park listing the new details. They did that last year with the Haunted Attractions Pass as well.