The Interpreter Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 In what way? Tell me it made money and I will ask you how you know. From what I saw and have read, I can't see how it could possibly have made even a dime, at either Paramount's Kings Island or Carowinds. Many nights it played to virtually empty houses. There was even a very embarassing article in The Charlotte Observer with the title "Walking In An Empty Wonderland." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIWorker19 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Whether people think it was a success or not doesn't matter. What matters is that in the paper, it was said that Kings Island did what they expected to with WinterFest. Nothing spectacular, but not totally horrid. It was rated one of the best attractions for winter and despite the price, it was a very good thing. We have had this conversation before and it got out of hand. IT WAS A SUCCESS!!!! The park made what they had projected and therefore it is probably going to come back again next year. Also, with this "new buyer" stuff... we may not even notice a change... there will be some changes yes, but probably so small we won't even notice them until they have already happened. No one should be getting worried or anything. This is a good thing. Kings Island is ok, no one's getting fired, so yeah. Also, Nick Universe is NOT GETTING SCALED BACK WHAT-SO-EVER!!!! They are marketing this thing as "the most elaborate collection of Nickelodeon-inspired rides and attractions in the world opening in the Spring of 2006." Doesn't sound scaled back to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 You are certainly right in whether people think it was a success or not doesn't matter. It also doesn't matter what the current owners think it was. The fact it was announced in the paper that Winter Fest did what they expected it to do does NOT necessarily mean that it did. I know the PR business very well. There is NO way they would ever say: ***Well, the event wasn't very successful at all, but we are building for the future, realize we overpriced it, and will charge less and try again next year.*** Besides, what was or was not announced in the paper has no effect whatsoever on the new owners. They can choose to, or not to, have Winter Fest for their own reasons. I am still saying it would not surprise me in the least if the last year Winter Fest will be had for many years to come was 2005. Cutbacks in hours, reduced investments in the parks, less competition as to rides and shows, the general competitive environment for Christmas events in both Cincinnati and Charlotte, the pressures of transitioning to a new ownership and new management, the fact most of the stuff needed for Winter Fest was rented and not purchased...the list goes on and on. Everything leads the logical marketing person to believe there is a more than 50/50 chance that Winter Fest will not continue under a new owner. Much depends on who that new owner is and what their goal is. If it is, as it appears it will be, an investment company, they will have as their paramount goal the increase in revenue and profits and thus the increase in the asset value of the parks. Anything that helps that and can be reasonably done costwise, will be. Anything that doesn't directly lead to an increase in value for the assets (which investment groups WILL sell when they believe the time is right) will be deferred until another day, if ever. As for no one getting fired with a change in ownership, for ride operators and games people and food service workers, that is no doubt true. But so far, Six Flags has already had more than a handful of general managers either be dismissed or suddenly decide better opportunities lie elsewhere. And a whole bunch of marketing people, too. General Managers at Kentucky Kingdom, Great Adventure, Elitch Gardens and other parks, managers who had a job under Burke, are no longer there. I can assure you it will NOT be true that no one will be fired. And the changes in the parks will not be small. They already aren't. Look at the hours, the reduced investments, and wait til opening day. I suspect you will be amazed when you see what the prices will be for various things in the parks. At Six Flags AND Paramount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarketingExpress Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Yeah I have to agree with you about the Gold Passes. It is only five bucks more - so pretty much everyone gets the gold anyway. They should limit it and treat the gold pass holders more special. And don't get me wrong about my comment above - I too am one of the parks big fans - but when they make decisions like shaving off those extra hours at the end of the night, they are thinking about all the families that don't spend time at the park. The park makes its money from families who go to the park and buy food and drink and ice cream and tshirts and hats and those spinny glowing things and on ride for every ride. They don't make a lot of money off guys like us who pay 100 bucks a year for a gold pass, buy the special cups with the $2 refills and don't buy food and souvenirs. So yeah - they are going to make decisions with the business in mind. I am going to have agree with Klockster. One thing that people seem to be overlooking is the fact that PKI is a business. They are in it to save and make money. Don't get me wrong without die hard fans and season pass holders, we wouldn't be much, but the decisions made are for the best possible outcome. There is no way that a company this size can please every single customer, anyone who works at the park knows what I am talking about. Lets take a look from the business side shall we..... Ok lets say theoretically it takes 1,000 associates to run the daily operation of the park for 1 hour. Let's also theorize that the average payrate is around $7 an hour. Ok so we decide to cut one hour from an operating day. We are saving close to $7,000 just in that one hour. And it's not like there is a huge crowd at these hours. Ask any employee, the first and last hour in the park, there are more employees than guests with the exception of a few nights (Saturdays). It's not like we are shutting down the park everyday at 1:00 so that associates can go to lunch. By cutting an hour here and there it is allowing the park to stay in business, yet still allow for Joe Citizen to afford coming to the park and expect everything that is expected. This also allows us to keep ticket prices down. Can you imagine paying $63 to get into PKI? How about $60? It costs one adult $63 to enter one Disney park in Orlando. While PKI can't really compete with Disney (for another discussion) they are a good measuring tool. I personally think that our ticket prices are not bad considering what you get, if you want them to stay affordable, while still experiencing everything that you have come to expect something has to be given up. Let's leave it up to this. Should the park: 1) cut a few hours of daily operation or 2) take out another popular ride because there is not enough money to cover the maintenance costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 By cutting an hour here and there it is allowing the park to stay in business, yet still allow for Joe Citizen to afford coming to the park and expect everything that is expected. This also allows us to keep ticket prices down. Can you imagine paying $63 to get into PKI? How about $60? It costs one adult $63 to enter one Disney park in Orlando. While PKI can't really compete with Disney (for another discussion) they are a good measuring tool. I personally think that our ticket prices are not bad considering what you get All of which you are saying is true, but you have to bear in mind that once you start making cuts here and there, you really start sacrificing the guest experience for Joe Citizen. Let's do a quick psyche walk for Joe Citizen. Let's assume Joe is a middle aged man with a wife and two kids. Let's say that the year is 2010 and this is a wost case scenario. Joe pays the expected $9 to enter the lot and parks his car. It's a June Saturday so it's going to be busy. Joe, along with a thousand other people wait in anticipation for the strike of 10:00 and the opening of the front gates. 10:00 comes and the line begins to organize itself near the two metal detectors to the left (let's assume that security is cut and that's all they can open). Joe and his family wait for almost a half hour to get through security, only to wait for another 10 minutes at admissions and another 2 just to get into the park itself. First bad experience: spending almost 40 minutes to get into the park. Joe and his family walk down International Street to see that most of the shops aren't open, and won't open until noon. Joe begins to wonder why he spent almost $200 to get his family into an amusement park that's barely even opened. His uncertainty is reinforced when noticing that it's about 11:00 by this point and several rides aren't opened yet or are just now doing their first cycles. Second bad experience: dead park (if you've ever been to SFKK, you know the feeling) Joe and his family ride some of the rides and attractions (let's assume that they don't show up frequently enough to realize that the themeing isn't working) and then it's time for lunch. They all agree on Skyline and head directly for Street SKyline only to see a line going out the door. After waiting for quite a while, they reaize that the problem is that there are only two people running the whole place. Nothing is more frusterating than being hungry and having to wait.. and wait.. and wait. 3rd bad experience: The wait. Joe and his family finally get and eat their food and decide to ride some more rides. Upon walking to one of their favorite attractions, they notice a ton of debris from a careless guest's meal in the midway. Disgusted, they do their best to avoid the mess and press on. 4th: Look and feel suffering. I think you guys understand what I'm getting at. The little things are the building blocks of the customer experience and even if you built rides that were as good as a mixture of The Beast, Steel Phantom, and Top Thrill Dragster, you park would still suffer. What you have to understand is that Joe is definitely the rule rather than the exception. The family man is always going to be the center of attention at PKI, and he's going to look back and see the product as a whole rather than pick out individual likes and dislikes. Hopefully the park will never be so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deidre1976 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 that was really sad, If it doesn't stop we will end up like Americana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKlockster Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Yeah Ryan that is pretty depressing. But at the rate it is going... That is one reason this decision is good - like Marketing Express said. My estimate for just the payroll for one hour of operation was 10,000 dollars. Lets take the 4th of July for example. It used to be open till midnight, and not all the rides were open. Ridership was also very low during those last two hours. Cutting those hours saves an instant 20,000 dollars. Then consider the electricity it takes to run all the rides and establishments. It costs alot of money. I don't think I can say it on here - but let me just say that Flight of Fear costs some big time money to launch each train. I mean ALOT. And it adds up if you are launching 30 trains an hour. What makes it even more troublesome is if there are only 4 or 5 people on the train. So lets just look at Flight of Fear - not even look at IJST, TRTR, Drop Zone, and Delirium - all of which also use ALOT of electricity. Say for those two hours you have a group of six die hard gold pass holding PKICers. They just marathon FOF over and over. The park is spending a HUGE amount of money to launch those PKICers - and not making any. I would say a very conservative estimate at how much money the park saves by closing an hour early would be 50-75,000 dollars. So in two hours they could be saving 100,000 or more. More than likely - it is a lot more than that - I am just making a really low estimate of around 75,000 dollars an hour. So guys - the whole point of this is - if you really want what is best for our home park - support their decision and be happy with it. Other area parks would be so lucky to stay open so late. I went to Holiday World once in late June, and they closed at 8pm. So - please support PKI in this, and don't whine about it - if you are a true PKI fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cewldre Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Klockester does bring about some very valid points, especially about the parks close time. Many parks are suffering from having to close earlier and earlier due to money related issues. I know several parks, excluding King's Island, who, if they stay open til 8 or 9 pm, that's an exception. King's Island has been pretty lucky to run with the hours it does for quite some time. It has been able to stay open longer than most parks do. Klockester mentioned Holiday world closed at 8, when I went, It was closing at 9. Carowinds, on a bring a friend free day, closed at 10, but that is atypical, the rest of the week it was 9 or earlier. BoddaH, by making these small cuts in time, we can afford to continue the high quality of guest service. We will still have the staff to clean up the park, to staff the food locations, etc... We do not want to lose these aspects, hence the need to find other ways to save money, such as closing the park a little earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Yeah Ryan that is pretty depressing. But at the rate it is going... That is one reason this decision is good - like Marketing Express said. My estimate for just the payroll for one hour of operation was 10,000 dollars. Lets take the 4th of July for example. It used to be open till midnight, and not all the rides were open. Ridership was also very low during those last two hours. Cutting those hours saves an instant 20,000 dollars. LoL... sorry to bum you guys out.. Klocke, I think you need to look at the long term. Granted, the park could instantly save upwards of $50,000 by closing at 10 on the 4th of July, but imagine the mentality of Joe Citizen again... what if it were his first visit to the park and his biggest recollecton was long lines and taken an hour and a half to get out of the parking lot? Do you think he would come back? Do you think he would have nice things to say about the park if friends or family mentioned wanting to go? I know that there are better days to go than others, but this is another classic example of spending money to make money. If he had a good experience, he might buy a family pass for the next year. Just imagine that kind of money... I mean, I'm relatively conservative with money and I know I dumped about $2,000 into the park just with my 50 or so visits. If I had a family of 4, it would have been a LOT more. BoddaH, by making these small cuts in time, we can afford to continue the high quality of guest service. We will still have the staff to clean up the park, to staff the food locations, etc... We do not want to lose these aspects, hence the need to find other ways to save money, such as closing the park a little earlier. I sure hope you're right. The park has made such great efforts in the past 3 or 4 years to create a better and more festive look and feel... I'd hate to see it go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKlockster Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Yeah - I know I went to PKI back in July 2004 - as a Joe Citizen and I loved it. The very next week I bought a gold pass, and went like every weekend for the rest of 2004. Then in 2005 I got the Platinum pass. I imagine well have to make some little sacrifices like this here and there - but hopefully PKI will have great things to come in the future - under this new management! I would really like to see PKI leave the world of just being the best seasonal park in North America, and start competing with some of the big dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarketingExpress Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I imagine well have to make some little sacrifices like this here and there - but hopefully PKI will have great things to come in the future - under this new management! I would really like to see PKI leave the world of just being the best seasonal park in North America, and start competing with some of the big dogs. ^I would be willing and I am sure most people would be willing to make a few sacrifices here and there if it would allow PKI to compete with the big dogs such as Disney. When that happens, the park will have access to the newest innovations in amusement park rides and attractions, which will then satisfy the die hard fans and ACERS out there who constantly yearn for more thrills. To go off what Klockster said: The park knows what it's doing and we should support their decision, in the end it will be worth your while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Picard Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Just think of the money they would save by not opening at all. They need to think of how to get more people to go because that is where the money is. I think most people will go someplace else before making little sacrifices. I feel like Joe and it's not 2010 yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deidre1976 Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 As far as getting rid of the 9-10 am period - yeah that is probably because sales at the shops aren't that good. People will go in and browse - maye a few people will make purchases - agree.....who wants to haul stuff around the park when you can get it at the end of the day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest faceoff Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I just checked the pki calendar and they are now open easter sunday 10am-8pm and monday april 17th- 10am-8pm. fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Wow. I wonder what changed their minds? PKI is normally dead as all get out on Easter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Yeah, I was curious to the fact that they would also be open the Monday after Easter. Trying to get people into the park on spring break perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKlockster Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I am glad they are open Easter! Now I gotta hope I am off or a Close... I will probably be an all day though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flightoffear1996 Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 I will not being going on Easter alough I really wish that I could. That Monday after Easter sounds like a day that no one would be in the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 I'm not going to call a meeting day on Easter because that's just one of those things that just kind of happens. Who am I to toy with nature? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKlockster Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 If I am off - I will be marathoning Vortex. Of course there is a park rule that says you can only ride twice if nobody is in line for your seat. After that you have to get off and run around. At least that was the rule last year - it may be changed to no rerides this year. Either way - I will spend the day riding nothing but Vortex. Last year I did TRTR on a really dead day - and got 14 rides. And that is running around each time and going through the line and preshow 14 times! I even got smacked by a broom from a disgruntled TRTR Associate whos one day ride count record I was beating... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 OK? There's no one in line and they would make you get off and run around the que? Oh man, someone had some time on their hands to think of that rule! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Carowinds has been doing this on Top Gun for quite some time. I think they are concerned that the rider exhibit signs of being able to cope with life after two rides. And I suspect the someone with lots of time was an insurance company, perhaps after paying a claim. The rule is not all that unusual. At Morey's Piers, for example, if the Great White is empty and you are the only person riding, you still must get out after EVERY ride, walk out the exit and up the entrance (a not short journey) in order to reride. Just one of many reasons that though I love the rides and atmosphere there, I despise that park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKlockster Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 OK? There's no one in line and they would make you get off and run around the que? Oh man, someone had some time on their hands to think of that rule! Hey - its true! Last season I heard ALOT of complaints about that. The station would be empty - and a train would come back - and people who had ridden twice had to get off and go around. On Son of Beast - rerides are absolutely not allowed. You can ride once and you have to walk around. I wish you could just sit down and marathon a coaster for like 3 hours... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 SOB is probably an insurance issue. I imagine that there are quite a few claims that are in negotiations regarding the ride. But honestly, I can't see the need for a walk around rule on the other coasters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Well, they used to not let you stay on for even a second ride. Even if no one was in line. The Beast on numerous occasions last years allowed rerides if no one was in your seat. Furthermore, they weren`t strictly enforcing the 2 rides and then have to walk around rule. In fact, during Beast Bash and the final rides of the season oin The Beast, I got about four or five rides in a row without getting off. Some rides, like Vortex though, I can only do about three times in a row before having to get off and take a little breather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkootersFan Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 I did recaR for like 20 times straight without doing anythig but changing seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKlockster Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Thats weak... 14 on SOB. 14 on TRTR (followed by 2 in a row on Delirium) 10 on Vortex. 10 on FOF. 11 on Beast. Theres my marathon records. The SOB and TRTR marathons were ended because of park closing. FOF and Beast was at the film shoot. And on Vortex - after 10 they said - NO MORE! I estimate my limit being 25 on SOB, 30 on Beast, 14 on TRTR (I couldn't handle a fifteenth), 60 on Vortex and 75 on FOF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustbucket Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 OK? There's no one in line and they would make you get off and run around the que? Oh man, someone had some time on their hands to think of that rule! Cedar Point does this for all rides! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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