PKI Slowly Killing Itself

[Erosarrow05]

i agree...

apparently the park needs to go back to what it used to be.... :-\

[CoasterKrazy]

I hate the cutbacks as much as the next guy, but I wonder if the people that matter (the general public) really notice that nearly 100% of the themeing on Top Gun has been removed, that about 75% of the special effects on Flight of Fear, Italian Job, Adventure Express and Tomb Raider don't work, and that other rides like Scooby Doo and the Haunted Castle are slowly but surely deteriorating as well.

In this situation, I wonder the validity of the old saying "you have to spend money to make money." Take a look at Disney. They go all out on nearly every attraction and it has paid big time. Spending nearly 100 million dollars on several attraction has resulted in several billions in increased profit. Could this work at PKI, albeit on a much smaller scale? If they take the time to make the "magic of the movies" experience a little more "magical" (meaning they take the time to work on aspects that many guests won't notice) would the attendance rise?

Obviously, guests notice the big stuff, (namely the removal of beloved rides like Antique Cars) and this can have an immediate impact on the park. But what about those small things? If those "once a year'ers" come back each year and find themselves thinking things like "didn't music play on this ride last time?" or "didn't those eyes used to light up?" will those thoughts eventually build up to "I think we'll take our cash somewhere else?"

Now more than ever, we see that Paramount's Kings Island is a business; and not some "mom and pop" place where major purpose is to make people happy, with monetary compensation as a pleasant side effect. Rather, the sole reason for the park is to generate major cash flow, and since that was not being achieved, they are being offloaded.

It will be interesting to see the effects of a new owner. One option in particular seems undoubtedly bad (private investor), while being bought by a competitor such as Cedar Fair has the potential to go either way. Does Cedar Fair pick up the themeing business (which has yet to be seen at their other parks) or do they throw away all that [should] makes the rides at PKI a step above what can be found at other seasonal parks?

I can't wait for '07. I just hope my anticipation doesn't turn into disappointment.

[Pirate of PKI]

I also haven't posted in a long while ... but looks like the whole gang's back for this thread.

[HomerJay]

You can't tell me that the General Public was in an uproar because the Antique Cars were removed. There was a new, state of the art attraction put in its place. I'm sure people were impressed by that more than over the slowly paced Antique cars, which appealed to little kids, senior citizens and die-hard PKIers.

The public WILL notice, however, if food costs and arm and a leg, if the rides don't work, if the staffing causes long delays and if the park is dirty. THOSE are the things into which Paramount has to put some $$ to avoid losing attendance.

[CoasterKrazy]

No, there wasn't an uproar by any stretch of the imagination, but they did notice it was gone. On the six separate occasions I visited the park that season (each time with a different group of people, made up of several demographics, from young children, to teens, to adults, and myself being the only enthusiast present) someone always mentioned the fact that they were disappointed Antique Cars had been removed.

Compare that to my experience with King Cobra's removal, where it was either assumed that someone had died on the ride and that's why it was removed, or (my favorite response) someone would ask "There used to be a roller coaster there?"

Obviously, there are different reactions to the removal of different rides.

[VortexQueen]

PKI is falling down a BIG hill, King da Ka big.

IJST was a mistake .

NU is just.. well its ok but some of it just really stinks (sometimes litterally).

SoB I completely understand and agree with.

I LOVE Top Gun to DEATH but it is a 1993 version of IJST.

Winterfest was a big old mess for them, though done VERY nicely.

New Shows!! even though school of rock is nice.. i saw it WAY to many times.

All in all, they just arent the same, they cant get it together and for once i can say that I hate PKI's decisions and am almost BORED of its sameness.

-Paramount cancer. - i like that

[UncleHenry]

PKI is falling down a BIG hill, King da Ka big.

IJST was a mistake .

NU is just.. well its ok but some of it just really stinks (sometimes litterally).

SoB I completely understand and agree with.

I LOVE Top Gun to DEATH but it is a 1993 version of IJST.

Winterfest was a big old mess for them, though done VERY nicely.

New Shows!! even though school of rock is nice.. i saw it WAY to many times.

All in all, they just arent the same, they cant get it together and for once i can say that I hate PKI's decisions and am almost BORED of its sameness.

-Paramount cancer. - i like that

So you agree with Son of Beast? Your arguments just lost all validity with that statement.

[Snake Attack!]

So you agree with Son of Beast? Your arguments just lost all validity with that statement.

oh come on, Sob was the biggest exitement that the park has had since The Vortex and you're saying that he just lost all credibility in saying that he understands why pki gave it a go. sob was the first big record breaker ki has had for a long time there and they are known for their wood coasters, so why not try to have the best, what do you want them to try to do with the park then???????

[Delirium13]

Tomb Raider would be an example...down from a crew of 6 to a crew of 4. Antechamber will no longer be used because PKI basically wants to save a few bucks. Of course that door effect could never be fixed anyways, but you all know how hard it is for a multibillion dollar corporation to go out and buy a decent projector. Greeter position is also history just for the sake of pinching that penny even harder.

I don't see the huge problem everyone else is talking about, I think the park is fine, but this makes me mad. They spend a whole lot of money to theme the ride like it is and now they don't use part of the line and I've noticed the line moves slower because of this.

I love PKI and think it is being run fine and that it isn't slowly killing itself, but the fact that they are going cheap on a lot of things makes me mad.

[CoastersNSich]

going along with WooferBearATL's song post:

Fooling Yourself (The Angry Young Man)

Styx

Written by Tommy Shaw

Lead Vocals by Tommy Shaw

You see the world through your cynical eyes

You're a troubled young man I can tell

You've got it all in the palm of your hand

But your hand's wet with sweat and your head needs a rest

And you're fooling yourself if you don't believe it

You're kidding yourself if you don't believe it

Why must you be such an angry young man

When your future looks quite bright to me

How can there be such a sinister plan

That could hide such a lamb, such a caring young man

And you're fooling yourself if you don't believe it

You're killing yourself if you don't believe it

Get up, get back on your feet

You're the one they can't beat and you know it

Come on, let's see what you've got

Just take your best shot and don't blow it

And you're fooling yourself if you don't believe it

You're killing yourself if you don't believe it

Get up, get back on your feet

You're the one they can't beat and you know it

Come on, let's see what you've got

Just take your best shot and don't blow it

[CoastersNSich]

NOTE: The above post is for entertainment purposes, and going along with the theme. It does not endorse or criticize the viewpoint in the orginal post.

[VortexQueen]

PKI is falling down a BIG hill, King da Ka big.

IJST was a mistake .

NU is just.. well its ok but some of it just really stinks (sometimes litterally).

SoB I completely understand and agree with.

I LOVE Top Gun to DEATH but it is a 1993 version of IJST.

Winterfest was a big old mess for them, though done VERY nicely.

New Shows!! even though school of rock is nice.. i saw it WAY to many times.

All in all, they just arent the same, they cant get it together and for once i can say that I hate PKI's decisions and am almost BORED of its sameness.

-Paramount cancer. - i like that

So you agree with Son of Beast? Your arguments just lost all validity with that statement.

i put SoB there because i may agree with it, but it is using money K.I. could really use right about.. Now.

[deidre1976]

It's the food prices that is killing me ........The ice cream is half the size it was and cost a small fortune. That is what is killing the Pass holders. Its hard to imagine $10.00 for four cones. I havn't checked on the pizza price with out the gold pass meal can anyone tell me?

[Pirate of PKI]

It's the food prices that is killing me ........The ice cream is half the size it was and cost a small fortune. That is what is killing the Pass holders. Its hard to imagine $10.00 for four cones. I havn't checked on the pizza price with out the gold pass meal can anyone tell me?

Food prices aren't dragging the whole attendance or park down, even though they are and have been rediculously high for a long time. It's a tired topic, really, and it's never going to get better.

[SOB_TOM]

Of course that door effect could never be fixed anyways, but you all know how hard it is for a multibillion dollar corporation to go out and buy a decent projector

Ummm, thats not what is broken first off.

Second, let me hit a few rides that are "falling apart":

Express: Modifications have been made over the last two offseasons to that ride to make it sound almost as good as TRTR.

FOF: Except for the vandalism on that ride, really the theming has not gone down at all. Minus of course the modified video. So stop throwing stuff on top of the saucer and we will be alright.

IJST: Dont get me started on this POS. Maybe if the origional installers actually did their job (outside contractors BTW).....

NU: Its a kiddie area. Not many kiddie rides are perminently installed anyway, so whats the beef?

TRTR: Expense. Lets just say that the companies decided to use the "top of the line" Grade A cr*p on that ride. So basically to get a basic effect to work, the park needs to spend 5k for the part.

Im done ranting now. Time to go back to my hole.

[Oldiesmann]

I also wish PKI had left HB alone. Many parents grew up watching HB cartoons and it was great seeing them point out the various characters to their kids. Even though most kids only recognized Scooby Doo, it still gave the parents something memorable to share with their kids. I'm especially annoyed that The Beastie was re-themed. I thought that they would surely leave that one alone since it wasn't an HB-themed ride, and it had become a family favorite. The Beast is still one of the most popular coasters in the park (probably the most popular at that), and there was really no reason to do that.

I am glad that the kiddy whip ride was moved to a more promenant spot though - many people probably weren't aware that the ride was even there last year because it was crammed back in a corner. The Nick Central parade helped to increase its popularity some, but it definitely suffered because of its location.

Crew reductions can happen for a number of reasons, but I experienced the effect of this last year (although it might have been due more to a crew shortage than a planned reduction). At some point, someone decided it would be a good idea to remove the greeter position at Beastie. This was a horrible idea in my opinion and only made things worse for everybody (including guests) - height-checking wasn't done until the kids got up to the front of their row (in most cases), and we had very little time to check height in between our other responsibilities. It also caused delays in many cases and probably had a lot to do with why so many parents got so ticked when their kid wasn't tall enough - if they had been told this before they got in line, they probably wouldn't have cared as much. Granted, it would have been easier if people had actually read the sign at the beginning of the ride (and if a very few people didn't try to sneak their kid on the ride even though they were too short), but things were a zoo at Beastie during any normal day, and it was especially bad during the few times when we were swamped...

[SOB_TOM]

But the theming is for kids to know, not adults.

Look people, as good as memories are to maintain, its even better to make new memories with your kids.

[RingMaster]

Of course that door effect could never be fixed anyways, but you all know how hard it is for a multibillion dollar corporation to go out and buy a decent projector

Ummm, thats not what is broken first off.

Second, let me hit a few rides that are "falling apart":

Express: Modifications have been made over the last two offseasons to that ride to make it sound almost as good as TRTR.

FOF: Except for the vandalism on that ride, really the theming has not gone down at all. Minus of course the modified video. So stop throwing stuff on top of the saucer and we will be alright.

IJST: Dont get me started on this POS. Maybe if the origional installers actually did their job (outside contractors BTW).....

NU: Its a kiddie area. Not many kiddie rides are perminently installed anyway, so whats the beef?

TRTR: Expense. Lets just say that the companies decided to use the "top of the line" Grade A cr*p on that ride. So basically to get a basic effect to work, the park needs to spend 5k for the part.

Im done ranting now. Time to go back to my hole.

Would you believe that the guys behind the special effects for IJ:ST are the same ones behind the special effects for MIB: Alien Attack, Jaws AND Jurassic Park: The Ride? PPI is cheap, and it shows with past projcts from ride manufacturers and landscapers.

What ****es me off is how much money and effort they put into TR:TR and then discarded it to save money. TR blew people away with the amount of scenery and gadgetry it had. Now, there's possible threats of all of the preshow being axed and guests just walking single file through the still beautiful interiors like waiting to ride any other PKI attraction. And all it needs are some new light fixtures and more fog!

(From what I've been told, last year's FearFest used up all of the fog from both IJ:ST and TR:TR; they're just too lazy to buy more, or make new, fog.)

And what happened with IJ:ST to the point where they gave up on fixing the attraction? What I mean is that the subway stair effect which, I'm guessing, was supposed to be installed last July, has been axed completely, along with attempts to fix the onboard audio and headlights/tail lights, and the helicopter that, instead of flowing smoothly like a real helicopter, moves like a badly-assembled robot that needs some WD-40. Granted, this was the same attraction the park overhyped on, putting the spectacular School of Rock LIVE! show and the amazing second season of the Nick Celebration Parade behind them.

(Technically, Fearfest also suffered from being pushed behind the overhyped Winterfest, yet FF had tons more things to do than December's holiday event.)

Son of Beast and TR:TR are two perfect examples of why PP needs to take risks when coming up with attractions. The ideas worked, and they need to do it more often. Unfortunately, it's too late now, so I hope that whoever buys PKI cares more about the quality of an attraction more than how much it costs to actually make it (even though it takes money to build a ground-breaking attraction ).

PS: One more thing, then I'll shut up; for those that say that the fact that they have five parks to manage is the reason why their budget's screwed up, look at Disney. They have twice as many parks as we do (11 to be exact), yet they pulled off the beauty that is both Expedition: EVEREST and the ENTIRE Tokyo DisneySea. And both Disney and Paramount are multi-billion dollar corporations as Alien Seed put it.

[RailRider]

When it comes right down too it, this has been one of the most dissapointing years I have had at PKI so far. The park is highly overpriced, the ride theming has gone to crap on everything, and they need some help with staffing.

PKI is moving towards the management skills of SixFlags and is looking less and less like it once did. Honestly hope someone buys the PP chain soon, because PKI is in serious need of some TLC.

Im sick of TR:TR, FOF, and IJST looking like crap and the theming is going down hill so quickly. Honestly it doesnt take much. A few hours here and few hours there, a little paint, and some windex. (Has anyone else noticed how dirty the big mirror in the FOF building is?)

I still enjoy the park but Im tired of limbo. They either need to sell it or recomit to making PKI one of the great seasonal parks.

p.s.

Did Jeff see the future and leave before the ship went down? Kinda interesting.

[Snake Attack!]

I think I would like to see the entire maintence dept. revamped and maybe we will see some cleaner better functioning rides, even in games when we call our "special games only maintnence" they are still an hour or more before they come, one time they didn't even come.

[SOB_TOM]

Would you believe that the guys behind the special effects for IJ:ST are the same ones behind the special effects for MIB: Alien Attack, Jaws AND Jurassic Park: The Ride? PPI is cheap, and it shows with past projcts from ride manufacturers and landscapers.

What ****es me off is how much money and effort they put into TR:TR and then discarded it to save money. TR blew people away with the amount of scenery and gadgetry it had. Now, there's possible threats of all of the preshow being axed and guests just walking single file through the still beautiful interiors like waiting to ride any other PKI attraction. And all it needs are some new light fixtures and more fog!

(From what I've been told, last year's FearFest used up all of the fog from both IJ:ST and TR:TR; they're just too lazy to buy more, or make new, fog.)

And what happened with IJ:ST to the point where they gave up on fixing the attraction? What I mean is that the subway stair effect which, I'm guessing, was supposed to be installed last July, has been axed completely, along with attempts to fix the onboard audio and headlights/tail lights, and the helicopter that, instead of flowing smoothly like a real helicopter, moves like a badly-assembled robot that needs some WD-40. Granted, this was the same attraction the park overhyped on, putting the spectacular School of Rock LIVE! show and the amazing second season of the Nick Celebration Parade behind them.

(Technically, Fearfest also suffered from being pushed behind the overhyped Winterfest, yet FF had tons more things to do than December's holiday event.)

Son of Beast and TR:TR are two perfect examples of why PP needs to take risks when coming up with attractions. The ideas worked, and they need to do it more often. Unfortunately, it's too late now, so I hope that whoever buys PKI cares more about the quality of an attraction more than how much it costs to actually make it (even though it takes money to build a ground-breaking attraction ).

PS: One more thing, then I'll shut up; for those that say that the fact that they have five parks to manage is the reason why their budget's screwed up, look at Disney. They have twice as many parks as we do (11 to be exact), yet they pulled off the beauty that is both Expedition: EVEREST and the ENTIRE Tokyo DisneySea. And both Disney and Paramount are multi-billion dollar corporations as Alien Seed put it.

HOWEVER, the onboard sound system and headlights, whoever told you that the park gave up on it is a complete and total moron because none of his information is right.

I would like to reply to the whole revamp of maintenance, especially my dept (games maintenance). WE get calls and respond to them in order. These calls are everything from people needing batteries (which, BTW is NOT OURS BUT THE GAMES KIDS!) to a game losing power because of a faulty power supply which takes about a freakin hour to replace. If we dont get to you until an hour later, tough. The rest of the departments work the same way, unless its a ride situation, where break downs are ahead of just running problems. So, unless you can think of a better way of doing maintenance, I suggest you shut up and quit bashing on my department, cause I will not hesitate to bash back. Lucky for you, I have to watch what I post because I am in the know.

P.S. If you doubt my information, look at my sig. And for those of you who still think they are above what I know INSIDE MY OWN SHOP go bite me. Cause you probabily dont.

[TQZ]

p.s.

Did Jeff see the future and leave before the ship went down? Kinda interesting.

My exact thoughts. I have thought about this from the beginning of the season, I have just been afraid to say anything because I figured it would start a flamefest because no one wants to admit anything is wrong. Face it, Jeff was an awesome guy and he made everyone he talked to feel like he knew them and wanted to make sure THEY were having the best time in the park.

JEFF WAS ONE PERSON! Doing the job of 10 PR people if you ask me.

Now here is food for thought for your statement. Has things suffered BECAUSE Jeff has left? I doubt it, because we all know its about the money, but im sure there is a part of it.

Also, how many CP commercials have you seen lately? And how many PKI commercials?

[CoastersRZ]

Well, I`ve actually heard a ton of commercials on the radio for PKI. Promoting the gold pass and Nick Universe with its "Six" new rides.

[Jasper]

Maybe Jeff had a time machine and it told him that if he stayed on board that he hiumself would take it down and traveled through time and quit his job. Then he went back through time and saw the park flourishing and congratulated himself on a job well done.

[Flying Eagles 1972-2004]

I've seen more PKI commercials. CP i've seen like one. PKI DOZENS.

[RingMaster]

Which company are you referring to? Especially since one company started the project, then was fired by PREMIER NOT THE PARK and then a new one came in and did a worse job? How bout you look up your facts before you post information. Thank you.

Entech Creative Industries

^THIS company. Premier built the coaster track and the majority of its scenery, Entech is the one who set up the helicopter attack sequence.

Entech Portfolio

^Portfolio of some of Entech's past projects leading up to IJ:ST.

...so you're saying that one company started production on IJ:ST, and then Premier fired that team and hired a new one, therefore screwing the ride up?

Also, how many CP commercials have you seen lately? And how many PKI commercials?

More like how many commercials for Cedar Point's SkyHawk have you seen lately, and compare that to how many commercials for Kings Island's Nick Universe have aired lately?

EDIT: RZ beat me to it.

[BoddaH1994]

p.s.

Did Jeff see the future and leave before the ship went down?  Kinda interesting.

My exact thoughts. I have thought about this from the beginning of the season, I have just been afraid to say anything because I figured it would start a flamefest because no one wants to admit anything is wrong. Face it, Jeff was an awesome guy and he made everyone he talked to feel like he knew them and wanted to make sure THEY were having the best time in the park.

JEFF WAS ONE PERSON! Doing the job of 10 PR people if you ask me.

Now here is food for thought for your statement. Has things suffered BECAUSE Jeff has left? I doubt it, because we all know its about the money, but im sure there is a part of it.

Also, how many CP commercials have you seen lately? And how many PKI commercials?

No, Jeff was one of four people over the past few years doing the work of ten people (Jeff, Maureen, Stevie B, and Taney) just from the perspective of the outside PR as a guest. On the other hand, Maureen is one of two people (along with Jennifer) doing the job of ten people. I don't know how much her takehome is, but it's definitely not enough.

[harvesterofyoursorrow]

Antechamber will no longer be used because PKI basically wants to save a few bucks.  Of course that door effect could never be fixed anyways, but you all know how hard it is for a multibillion dollar corporation to go out and buy a decent projector.

The effect for the antichamber light on the door is probably not a projector at my guess.

Its probably a focused stage type light with a gobo pattern in a gobo rotator that is keyed to turn so far then stop.

Here is what a gobo is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobo_%28lighting%29

And an example of a gobo rotator: http://www.rosco.com/us/lightingequipment/dgr.asp

This way would be simply controled via a computer but the computer would just tell the power outlet to go on and off. The light would come on, then the gobo's socket. Gobo rotator off, light off. Gobo reset.

This would be the cheep way to do this and the simplest. PKI may of opted to use a 3-8 thousand dollar moving light controlled digitally by computer for this one task. The bulb can blow, the connection between the computer could go haywire, the computer could not work itself!

[PKIWorker19]

It's the food prices that is killing me ........The ice cream is half the size it was and cost a small fortune. That is what is killing the Pass holders. Its hard to imagine $10.00 for four cones. I havn't checked on the pizza price with out the gold pass meal can anyone tell me?

In response to your question, the Gold Pass Meal Deal that is at the Pizza places is $28.10 I believe. That is about a 2 dollar increase from last years price and about a 4 dollar increase from the year before. Ice Cream prices are rediculous (I work there and I can tell you that it is rediculous!) and a whole CHEESE pizza for $19.10. (Sausage and Pep is about $22) I also work at LaRosa's and a large cheese pizza (the same as at Kings Island) is $11.99. Also, the pizza that we make at KI costs about 2 dollars to make, so in all actuallity, we are making about 17 dollars in profit. People do notice this and are very aware that bottled pop went up 50 cents and that the dippin dots went up to $4. They are very aware of this and that is what drives their thoughts of if they want to return to a park that is just about making money.

Also, about all the ride things that aren't working... since IJ:ST never really had the subway effect in the first place, I highly doubt that people are really missing that. That ride is, in my opinion, a really good ride that thrills a lot of people daily. Now, they may notice the fact that the audio doesn't work or something else, but that ride is still really good.

SOB- They tried and it was a success at first. Then it went to hell and has not be able to come back.

TR:TR- I worked at this ride my first year during FearFest (thats right, a food guy in rides, which I loved by the way, the crew there was really nice and it was a great time!) and that whole pre-show thing is a vital part of that ride if you ask me. When I was working the pre-show, it was awesome and I think that you need that and if you don't have that, then you have lost the ride entirely.

NU- I am a 20 year old, but I must say that NU is freaking awesome. You have no idea how many of those kids are having so much fun... they don't care what something used to be called or that is used to be HB (which, by the way, was completely and totally dull and boring), they care about the kid rides that they are able to ride. It is their section and they can do whatever they please. It is an awesome addition and I can say that I love it and Avatar is amazing. I love that ride, I don't care if it is for little kids.

[Alien Seed]

Antechamber will no longer be used because PKI basically wants to save a few bucks.  Of course that door effect could never be fixed anyways, but you all know how hard it is for a multibillion dollar corporation to go out and buy a decent projector.

The effect for the antichamber light on the door is probably not a projector at my guess.

Its probably a focused stage type light with a gobo pattern in a gobo rotator that is keyed to turn so far then stop.

Here is what a gobo is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobo_%28lighting%29

And an example of a gobo rotator: http://www.rosco.com/us/lightingequipment/dgr.asp

This way would be simply controled via a computer but the computer would just tell the power outlet to go on and off. The light would come on, then the gobo's socket. Gobo rotator off, light off. Gobo reset.

This would be the cheep way to do this and the simplest. PKI may of opted to use a 3-8 thousand dollar moving light controlled digitally by computer for this one task. The bulb can blow, the connection between the computer could go haywire, the computer could not work itself!

I was merely simplifying it into one word. I worked on that ride for two years, and I am more than aware of what was used. With all the money Paramount has, it may as well be just another projector, or even a simple lightbulb for all they care. They don't even change the normal lightbulbs on that ride anyways. Whoever the new owners are, I don't care. I HATE Paramount. They're nothing but lousy cheapskates, and I can't wait for someone to come on this forum and start defending their actions..."but they've given us NU..blah blah blah."