The Interpreter Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 A good point, but I can't imagine a meal with seven kids being relaxing in any setting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hauntguy Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 ^ Hahaha... True that! -Hauntguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear295 Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 I TURLY DON'T KNOW, but I'd be willing to bet that the free soft drinks and sunscreen is essentially free to the park. I know that if I was a major soft drink vendor in an area with a park like HW, I would gladly supply the syrup, cups and fountain. The park has the expense of the water, electric, manpower to clean and restock the 6 drink stations and maybe even provide the CO2. Think about it. It costs about 3¢ for the syrup in a 12 oz drink. You have say, 20,000 people a day in the park. What is the advertising of your product name being seen everywhere worth? A heck of a lot more than what it costs Pepsi or Coppertone to provide the product. It's an advertising tax write off. And I say, a pretty good one at that! By the way, if you haven't seen it yet... HW has a FACT on their website that they went through 600 gallons of sunscreen last year. Cost, minimal. Advertising worth, WOW!! Just basing this on working in convenience stores with fountain drinks and 20 years in retail. Probably way out in left field, but food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewwill Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 I TURLY DON'T KNOW, but I'd be willing to bet that the free soft drinks and sunscreen is essentially free to the park. I know that if I was a major soft drink vendor in an area with a park like HW, I would gladly supply the syrup, cups and fountain. The park has the expense of the water, electric, manpower to clean and restock the 6 drink stations and maybe even provide the CO2. Think about it. It costs about 3¢ for the syrup in a 12 oz drink. You have say, 20,000 people a day in the park. What is the advertising of your product name being seen everywhere worth? A heck of a lot more than what it costs Pepsi or Coppertone to provide the product. It's an advertising tax write off. And I say, a pretty good one at that! By the way, if you haven't seen it yet... HW has a FACT on their website that they went through 600 gallons of sunscreen last year. Cost, minimal. Advertising worth, WOW!! Just basing this on working in convenience stores with fountain drinks and 20 years in retail. Probably way out in left field, but food for thought. Fact. Holiday World is in a some what remote location. Fact. Holiday World is not a corperate owned property, it is owned by the Koch family. They have done an AMAZING job running a successful Theme Park with a far less financial base than CF, Disney, 6 Flags. The staff is extremely friendly, the park is totally family friendly, with free parking and drinks, Holiday World is an AMAZING value. I haven't even included the rollercoasters. Add that and to be honest, with it's size, I don't know how they make a profit let alone spend megabucks on coasters. I think every park operator could learn from the Koch family. BUT...if KI is expensive, take your family to the Reds, Bengals or a Movie. Add 3 dollar gas and you need a printing press to print your own money...JK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 If admissions and/or per caps go down this year, we will know that people followed your advice. The FACT of the matter is that people DO have choices. They do NOT HAVE to go to Kings Island. They will if and only if it best suits their entertainment needs, given the discretionary spending they have available to them. If Cedar Fair has priced Kings Island out of its market, that will become apparent. They are quite capable of making midcourse corrections, if need be. The fact is the company is in a great deal of debt and must somehow generate enough revenue to both exceed expenses and pay off debt. They must do so in a way to maximize cash flow. This is not going to be easy. It's not impossible, but it isn't easy either. Cedar Fair has never faced debt levels like it has right now. This is the time that will test the mettle of its executives...and we will soon know if the Paramount Parks acquisition at the price they paid was sheer genious, mediocrity or a dumb move that could endanger the whole company. Lastly, we saw what happened when Paramount Parks greatly overpriced WinterFest, and tried to hype it by saying that every night would be a sellout and you'd best get your designated night only admission ticket in advance.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterXtreme Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 I think it is really two early for any of us to tell how Cedar Fair is going to do with these new parks. As far as for the food prices, I think we are all forgetting that the starting wage went up and they have to recoup that cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohhs02highlander Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Ok, I`m slightly confused with your post. You are saying that Holiday World doesn`t put money into the park like other major parks? Well, for starters, both the Raven and Legend started off as one train rides. But do to the popularity of the rides, and growing attendance levels, Holiday World added a second train to those rides. Additionally, the additions in 2006, their 60th season, was the most amount of money they had spent on new rides in a single season in their entire history. So I am failing to see your 'lack of reinvestment' concept that you claim Holiday World is suffering from. And part of why Holiday World has been successful, is their emphasis on friendly courteous service. Not to mention the fact that they try and keep the park as clean as possible for the guests. Throw into the mix the "free" soft drinks and "free" parking, and you have a park that appeals to families. And will keep them coming back for more, despite its relatively remote location. Alrighty well to clarify...I never said that they don't reinvest because they do. What I was trying to say is that they only put a lot of money into the park every few years I'm not sure exactly the time between there major products...Take this year for example...Turkey Whirl, I don't know how much a ride like this costs but i think it's far less than any investment that Kings Island has made in the last several years...this year 10 million, last year 10 million, the year before that with IJST probably at least 10 million, and then the revamp of the water park and a ton of other updates in the park...KI pumps 10 million plus into the park annually, not just once every 5 or 6 years or whatever it is on Holiday world...does this make more sense now with what i was trying to say??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted May 7, 2007 Author Share Posted May 7, 2007 ^ Actually Turkey Whirl and Plymouth Rock Cafe were both supposed to open last year, but aren't until this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear295 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 I dunno, but maybe my math is all out in left field. Everyone talks about profit vs cost of the park. I was just playing with some numbers earlier. I find them quite interesting. Just based on gate income. Let alone gifts and meals. I don't remember where I got the number, but I seem to recall that KI had close to 3 million guests over the 06 season. Let's just play with that number for a bit. It's probably pretty close. They have 130 operating days. If the park only drew 35,000 people a day for the 130 days it would mean 4.5million visitors. So, let's play with 3 million for the season. Now, let's say that 1/3 of that number payed admission at the gate. I have no way to verify that number, but for the sake of argument let's use it. 3,000,000 x .33 = 990,000 people at $38.00 per person = $37,620,000 gate cash for the season 50,000 people bought season passes at $85 per person = $4,250,000 which surely is invested money since it starts coming in during the winter and early spring. Total $41,870,000 in gate sales alone. Now you can add beverages, gifts, souvenirs, parking, and food on top of that. Somehow, I just can't see payroll being more than $2 - 2.5 million a year. That still leaves $39,370,000 from gate sales alone. That's a lot of money for electric, insurance, supplies, and maintenance. The food prices are usually intended to cover the cost of the food and labor at that food location, so doubtful that any gate money goes to food and beverage. I'm sure that I have missed a lot of outlay monies, but $39.5 million gate money can cover a huge amount of expenses. Making money? I THINK SO!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted May 7, 2007 Author Share Posted May 7, 2007 Insurance is a big problem for parks. I know that the main reason why Fantasy Farm shut down was because premiums were so high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 And that payroll figure is WAY too low... Not to mention that every park is charged by corporate for its share of shared services, such as payroll, personnel, executive salaries (under Cedar Fair OR Paramount), etc. The theme park business is a mature business. Yes, it makes money. But nowhere near as much as some think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzarley Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 ^ Not to mention the service on that $1.7B debt <g> You don't have to guess at those numbers...it's all right here: http://biz.yahoo.com/e/070301/fun10-k.html Roughly, $87.5M in net profit on total revenue of $831M revenue for CF as a whole. So basically, 90% of all money brought in was used to pay for expenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Ok first off - IF YOU ARE CAUGHT EATING AT YOUR CAR or Bringing coolers into the park you WILL GET EJECTED....read the signs at the entrance. It is clearly stated - NO COOLERS and there is also signs saying NO FOOD TO BE BROUGHT INTO THE PARK. They frown strongly on eating at your cars and I am not risking losing my GOLD PASS over saving a few bux. To me it is more expensive to lose my pass especially when I love fear fest so much and want to go to every day of it so no thanks.... Now you can take your family OUTSIDE of the parking lot - I am sure there are parks all over the place if you just look but really it is a major hassle having to leave the park and come back again. For me it is just not worth it - I have a very heavy electric wheelchair and it is a royal pain taking it in and out of the car so we just deal with the high prices. We eat before we get to the park - grab a coney at 2.oo each then a few drinks - you can always fill your cups up at any water fountain for free if you are that worried about the price - on really hot days we do but not for saving money - it is just better to drink water on hot days. You know "Stadium Food" is expensive - more so than Kings Island and I don't hear a lot of complaint about that - what I hear is that it is traditional lol. Yea I do feel the prices are extremely TOO HIGH and would love Cedar Fair to adjust it in the right direction. Now for the merchandise - come on folks let's get some more interesting things in those shops!!! I collect INK PENS, TACK PINS, and KEY CHAINS and right now the pickings are really slim there. The shirts just lack the usual luster of years past and I just wish they would offer a larger variety. Bring back the GLASS SHOP!!! There were things in there that you could personalize that made awesome gifts to special people in your lives. Wellll plus one of the workers there is a close personal friend he he he. He would not go back now as he is working a much better job but yea my ICPCreeper used to work in that shop and both of us were surprised to see it gone - that was a place I never missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 The prohibition on outside food and coolers does NOT apply to the parking lot! To quote the website: Please note that food and drinks MAY NOT be brought into the park. Into the park. NOT the parking lot. People have medications that must be refrigerated. In addition, there is even a small picnicking area right outside the park itself (or at least there used to be). There is NO prohibition on food and coolers in the parking lot. None whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Yes, the picnic area is still outside the front gates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Butcher Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 And, I must completely disagree with you with the merchandise that is in the shops! I was commenting to a friend right around the opening of the park, how much I loved the new merchandise and apparel that the shops have this year! I love the return to some of the 'classic' KI apparel now in there. Not a whole lot of the movie apparel left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMoN Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Ok first off - IF YOU ARE CAUGHT EATING AT YOUR CAR or Bringing coolers into the park you WILL GET EJECTED....read the signs at the entrance. It is clearly stated - NO COOLERS and there is also signs saying NO FOOD TO BE BROUGHT INTO THE PARK. They frown strongly on eating at your cars and I am not risking losing my GOLD PASS over saving a few bux. To me it is more expensive to lose my pass especially when I love fear fest so much and want to go to every day of it so no thanks.... Now you can take your family OUTSIDE of the parking lot - I am sure there are parks all over the place if you just look but really it is a major hassle having to leave the park and come back again. For me it is just not worth it - I have a very heavy electric wheelchair and it is a royal pain taking it in and out of the car so we just deal with the high prices. We eat before we get to the park - grab a coney at 2.oo each then a few drinks - you can always fill your cups up at any water fountain for free if you are that worried about the price - on really hot days we do but not for saving money - it is just better to drink water on hot days. Boy did you just win the write a couple of paragraphs that are completely off the map. We have been bringing coolers (not just one) to Kings Island for several years now that the price of food and drinks are getting out of control. If you go to the park often enough to use your season pass you will notice as you are facing the front gates to your left is a picnic area. In it you will find many people that bring coolers up to the picnic tables and enjoy lunch with their family. You can't bring any of this inside the front gates, but they certainly aren't going to eject you for eating at your car. I also have never ever ever seen a sign that says you can't eat at your car or have a cooler in your car or that if you do either they will eject you. I also haven't seen anything that says they frown upon this, and if they did have something that said this they could only frown at themselves for it. Inside the park and parking lot are 2 totally different things. So if you pack you a lunch and eat in your car, you save money, you won't be ejected, and they won't take your Gold pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Karen Are you trying to tell me that KI is not going to allow a family driving hunderds of miles to bring a cooler into the parking lot? I can see the headlines now: "Family booted from Kings Island for eating PB&J in the parking lot" "That man took my animal crackers!" said 4 year-old Jessica from Erie, PA pointing to the security guard that was escorting the family from the parking lot. That is the headline any park needs to create the family atmosphere they desire. Heck, we just found out why there have been so many line jumpers & people smoking out of the designated smoking areas! Security is in the parking lot doing trunk checks for coolers! On the serious side. My family has been taking a cooler to parks since I was too small to ride Gemini. We have never had a problem. And as was mentioned earlier, KI has a picnic area for families with coolers, as does CP. They are both located outside the gates. This is not an issue the park is concerned about (except the pigs that don't clean up their litter). And if the park was concerned about it, the food & drink prices would not be as inflated as they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormaster Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 I was neutral on the situation. While the park seemed a lot cleaner, the Music is the same horrible music I've had to tolerate at the ol' lowes Store #442 for the past 4 years, and I go there to get away from that crap. That might be the ONE reason I miss paramount. However the Paramount purchase just fit with Kings Island too well. I enjoyed the overall movie themes, movie music, and movie merchandise. It'll never be the same without that Paramount title on it. Anyway considering six rides I wanted to ride were closed, I think its obvious that Cedar Fair is having some maintenance issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 I was neutral on the situation. While the park seemed a lot cleaner, the Music is the same horrible music I've had to tolerate at the ol' lowes Store #442 for the past 4 years, and I go there to get away from that crap. That might be the ONE reason I miss paramount. However the Paramount purchase just fit with Kings Island too well. I enjoyed the overall movie themes, movie music, and movie merchandise. It'll never be the same without that Paramount title on it. Anyway considering six rides I wanted to ride were closed, I think its obvious that Cedar Fair is having some maintenance issues. YOu may want to consider getting married at Showcase Cinema then. May be happier there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormaster Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Do You wear a shirt that says "I Eat Noobs"? Just trying to figure out exaclty where I said "I hate Kings Island and never want to come back, it's horrible, and I'd rather go to Kentucky Kingdom"... trying to figure that one out... I don't hate the park, it just seems different without the movie theme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 No, he doesn't wear such a shirt. He responds to your posts with his opinion. It's called a discussion! And welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormaster Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 well everyone better be prepared for me. I'm very harsh at my critism of things. I'm very strongly opinionated and I can Rant like no one else. Thats me. Though I doubt I'll be a regular since I'm already a member of many of other forums, and right now its kind of the "roller coaster" high thats driving me to research and research everything. I acctually found this site, looking up Son of Beast on Wikipedia! Anyway I don't hate the park, but My first impression of Cedar Fair's parks in 1995 wasn't that great. And in 2007 my first trip to KI was awesome...but seemed like most of the changes of KI were for the worst. Honestly I won't really have a solid opinion on what to think untill the 2008 season when the full conversion is complete. I will say on a positive note, its good the first thing they did was add a new coaster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 The "full conversion" will take at least three to five years. Cedar Fair has not yet owned the park for even one, much less a full season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italianchef Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 I have noticed more garbage cans and less litter this year. I'd say that CF is doing something right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deidre1976 Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 But it is sad 5.99 for a funnel cake, when you can get one at the flea market up the road for half of the price. 1 Pretzel and a bottle of Sprite to share with my son 7.00$ It would be different if the pretzel was Disney size and could feed three people.......they also need to get rid of the family salad during the gold pass pizza meal. It needs to be four small salads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 well everyone better be prepared for me. I'm very harsh at my critism of things. I'm very strongly opinionated and I can Rant like no one else. Thats me. Though I doubt I'll be a regular since I'm already a member of many of other forums, and right now its kind of the "roller coaster" high thats driving me to research and research everything. I acctually found this site, looking up Son of Beast on Wikipedia! Anyway I don't hate the park, but My first impression of Cedar Fair's parks in 1995 wasn't that great. And in 2007 my first trip to KI was awesome...but seemed like most of the changes of KI were for the worst. Honestly I won't really have a solid opinion on what to think untill the 2008 season when the full conversion is complete. I will say on a positive note, its good the first thing they did was add a new coaster! Then I would recommend getting your facts/opinions correct or you're gonna be chewed up in here and spit out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormaster Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 What facts are you referring too? I go to a park under new owner ship, and Flight of Fear is down, Tomb Raider is Down, S.O.B is down, D.Z. Is Down, Delerium is down, and Firehawk is down. Other than the S.O.B. and the first year of the F.o.F. I've never seen any of the above broke during the paramount era! So that immediatly gives me a bad impression of the new owners! Who wouldn't think that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khaoskat Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 SOB is still closed from the issues from last year. They are in the process of removing the loop, and potentially a lawsuit against the designer and manufacturer. This takes time, as they waited until they had a known cause for the massive failure last year that caused a couple full cars of riders to be injured. This was an issue with Paramount, not with CF. Paramount used a ton of non union companies to provide labor to put up this ride. DZ is down because it was manufactured by the same company who manufactured the ride at Six Flags that cut of a girls legs. For safety of Park Guests they have taken the ride off line at all Paramount Parks (as they were all done by the same manufacturer) as well as all Six Flags. I think a total of 12 of the DZ type rides were shut down after the accident. Again, this is an issue with Paramount, as Paramount hired the original manufacturer of the ride, not CF - as a matter of fact, non of the CF properties (other than those purchased through Paramount transaction) have been shut down. I have no clue why the other rides are down, but I do remember last year, the new coaster was always down, and it took us almost all year to be able to even use our speed lane passes to ride it. Again, if there are ride safety issues, they are due to Paramount, because all those rides were manufactured and put into place under them, not CF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormaster Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Well I understand whats going on with D.Z. and S.O.B, just didn't get what was up with the rest of the park. I guess it just reminds me of my first visit to Kentucky Kingdom after Six Flags bought them. It was a lot of the same stuff, and Kentucky Kingdom never seemed to recover from it. In fact not only that but expansion slowed down on the park, and they even removed one of its signature coasters (vampire). But Kings Island is still Kings Island regardless of who owns it, after all this would be like the third owner in the parks history. I still had a blast during my trip there. As long as The Vortex is running I'm not going to complain (if you couldn't tell, the Tex is my favorite coaster, and quite possibly the only coaster that I ride everytime I go, and many times more than once. Set a new record this past trip with 4 times!). The Beast is almost like that except the one time I went there and S.O.B. was operational, I rode it twice and ignored The Beast. I found I acctually loved Italian Job, and Face Off, as I rode both of them twice. Congo Falls must have been re-engineered because you acctually get wet on the ride now! Hit that up twice too! Inspite of all the broken rides, it was a very good trip to KI don't get me wrong. I just hope the 6 or so rides that were down was just a fluke and not a shape of things to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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