Shaggy

Indoor/outdoor. There are portions of the ride that drop and curve outside of the mountain.

I was just there in late may. Barely anything been done? Ha! The coaster track circuit is now complete and the exterior rock work and scaping is probably 50% done. The interior theming has now begun, and the coaster is on track to be open in 2014 Spring/Summer. This is what I'd call a "thrilling" family coaster. No it's not a small Vekoma Flying Chase (which I believe they simply produced the coaster itself) rather a "big" sit-down coaster with some larger turns outside of the mountain. I'd expect it to me a milder Big Thunder with great interior effects. I have to say, the new Fantasyland at WDW MK is absolutely incredible! The Beast/Belle/Gaston portion is so well done words cant describe it. It blends into the old Fantasyland like perfection!

I give Lance credit ....he's a pro at back-traking and not taking credit for wrong confirmations, all the while patting himself on the back at the same time. Bottom line, he doesn't know and is guessing like everyone else.

There went Hart's promise of "Biggah, Bettah, Wettah!" ;-) Here's the deal... Hart is reaping what he sewed. The park was built with poor infrastructure. Food stands and buildings weren't built for time. They were more or less built like back-yard sheds - 2x4 studs with outdoor grade plywood nailed on. They were built simply in order to expand the park rapidly. He then sold off the park, based on percived success... which in reality was masking debt.

I think that's a new record for Screamscape. 4 days and a complete reversal of their "source confirmation." I give it 4 more updates and the original 5/30 Wing confirmation will *POOF* dissapear. ;-)

My acid reflux and hiatal hernia flare up just at the mere thought of eating like that. *URP*

Re: Screamscape... Some parks and PR folk actually submit rumors to Lance... I know of at least two instances where park reps have "leaked" stuff to Screamscape. It's no different than actors "leaking" things to TMZ... all for publicity. Sometimes those leaks are truth... sometimes they're false... sometimes they have merit... but sometimes they're designed to mislead. I seem to recall that Screamscape, when Diamondback first began construction, posted that they heard from an official that the site was being prepped for a dive coaster. Add to that the interview that Dennis Spiegel (International Theme Park Services) gave to a local TV news station in Cincinnati saying that the construction appeared to him as being that of a "Dive Coaster." It turned out both were wrong... but wrong with the same guess... coincidence? As construction on Diamondback progressed... the original Screamscape speculation magically dissapeared. POOF! I read Screamscape weekly. I enjoy it. But I also take it for what it's meant to be... rumors and speculation. Quite frankly, I've been able to better guess some things just by looking as ground prep than Screamscape has. But then other times, it's been on the mark. Typically, Screamscape is fairly accurate with specualtion about parks which Lance is intimately familiar. He's not intimately familiar with KI.

Re: Screamscape... Save this KI update in your memory banks... "2014 - Banshee / New Coaster - Rumor - (6/3/13) Screamscape sources have confirmed to us that not only is the new Kings Island 2014 coaster from B&M, but it will be a new large Wing Coaster. And yes… unless things change, we can expect to see it fly under the Banshee name." Because chances are, if the coaster isn't what Lance is *speculating*, the post will dissapear in a month or so without any acknowledgement of his ever being wrong.

Interesting... I was at the Fairgrounds last Saturday (for something completely unrelated to KK) and I took the time to drive all around the perimeter of the park. I didn't see any change - other than some vines/trees cut back at a gated entrance near Thrill Park Theater. Granted I didn't get out of my car and peer through or over a fence (I wasn't invested enough to take the initiative), but it appeared as dead, sad and unkempt as ever. I saw no signs of "construction." I have to say, when you drive around it, it's shocking to see the dissaray. There are buildings with giant holes in roofs. Tons of rotten wooden siding on games buildings/food stands. Coasters are rusted over. Greezed Lightning is in as poor shape as Thunderbolt Express was at Camden in it's final standing years. The Giant Wheel looks completely rusted out. There's literal trees growing up through the rides. (On a simular note, I read online that the cement in the wave pool has cracked and trees/roots have grown through.) The once Black T2 is a pale grey now. The footings where Chang stood are all still there... it would be a hefty cost just to remove those. I've been vocal about my non-support for the parks "re-opening." I think it's a complete joke. But IMO, there's no way the park can be reapaired to a viable complete state of operations in time for 2014. It's become more and more obvious to me that SF walked away not only because of bad land/parking/rent deals with Workman's Fairground... but it also knew the investment the park would require in the near future. The costs outweighed the gains - thus they packed their bags and hightailed it out of dodge. Shaggy

I heard two coasters that was meant for Kentucky Kingdom where put into World of Adventure. Xflight/Firehawk may have been one of them But I've heard Dominator was custom made to be at the front of the park in the year 2000. It was going to take the place of the vampire and the squid waterslide, but Six Flags went cheap and put in Road Runner in 2000 and Sky Coaster later in 2001. You heard wrong. XFlight/Firehawk was originally designed for Kings Island (with another slated for install at KD.) Paramount passed on the coasters due to issues with the prototype Stealth in California. The two Flying Dutchmans were then contracted for installation at two competing Six Flags parks - Six Flags Worlds of Adventure and Six Flags America. Neither was ever slated for installation at KK. Dominator was designed specifically for SFO as part of the park's complete mainstream overhaul. It was not designed for KK, or ever planned for installation there. The area you mention at KK as being the planned location has an overall height restriction. KK's former tall rides (Chang, the SkyCoaster, the front spike of Greezed Lightning and the former lifts of Vampire) all were placed so they fit in the narrow parcel of land that allowed a 100'+ height variance. Many peope didn't realize it, but the tallest ride points at SFKK were in direct line with each other. One little known fact is that SF had proposed a Intamin Superman Impulse coaster to be placed in that parcel at the front of KK. However SFKK was underperforming so bad that the company scratched the plans and installed Greezed Lightning instead figuring it to be a cheaper alternative. However the coaster was a maintenance nightmare - mostly due to it's age - and essentially cost more than the Impulse would have. The park held a privately invited PR/Media event to premier the "NEW" coaster. However, the coaster didn't operate and the park supplemented rides on Hellivator (which a few years later generated it's own media event.) Greezed Lightning didn't even make test runs that night and the park sent everyone packing. It was an utter and complete embarassment of an event - typical for SFKK. On the opposite end of the park, there's a lower height variance - around 85 feet. Twisted Twins/Sisters was designed so they stood 80 feet, giving clearance for raised hands.

"This is my question. Was Diamondback's construction, (before the track arrived), anything like what we have seen so far?" I believe, as with most other B&M installs, Diamondbacks transfer track footers were among the first poured. B&M's typically have the final brakerun/transfer track installed first so those, coupled with the station footers are among the first poured. Here's Leviathan's first poured footers: First track raised for Leviathan Station/Transfer construction for Leviathan

I believe KI just showed their hand. I have never revealed my hand when KI speculation is running rampant... but there's a first time for everything. So here goes... I firmily believe KI will be installing it's own version of Wonderland's Leviathan for 2014. There, I've said it. It's a 300+ foot B&M. If it's anything else, then you can all laugh and point... but IMO the writing is on the wall. Shaggy

I was 17, a Junior in HS, living in Virginia. I distinctly recall my Mother telling me first thing in the morning. It was all over the news and was devistating to the nation. The images that came from it are something I'll never forget. It opened the eyes of a lot of people to the horror of drunk driving. It was, and is, a unforgettable tradgedy in every sense. I still say a little prayer everytime I pass the sign in Carrollton. God bless the families, victims and friends that are still grieving.

It was always my impression that the rebar also formed the "bolts." I always assumed the rebar was positioned in the form so that after concrete was poured, several inches of steel rebar protruded from the top of the footer. I always figured the rebar was then threaded and served as the bolts to which supports are attached. Maybe I'm completely wrong, but I thought this was how the construction engineers guaranteed the exact placement of the "bolts" based on the needs of the supports.

In the wake of the Boston Marathon bombings, I have been pondering the threat of terrorism. To be honest, I tend to live life a tiny bit on the paranoid side, and acts such as this play into my worries. I have a large Disney trip looming - been planning for a year. These recent issues have now cast a dark cloud over it. Even my Father said to me "Disney World is a prime target for terorists and is on their list!" (Yes, I'm 41 and still fear stern warnings from my Daddy!) Obviously we can't live our lives in fear... however in today's times we must always be on guard. Does anyone else share concerns over such acts at our favorite places? Any words of wisdom? Shaggy

Yes, the Coney display is upstairs on the observation balcony. There's a handicap/accessible elevator adjacent to the steps.

Forgive me if there's another thread on this... Yesterday I was visiting Cincinnati and on a whim decided to take in EnterTRAINment Junction. I hadn't been in and had no idea what it was about. We had some time to kill, so we went in, paid the admission and were awestruck at the train displays. What a fun place! Anyway... there's a whole new section under construction that replicates Cincinnati's Coney Island. Currently, the Shooting Star Coaster, The Carousel, Ferris Wheel and the Tumblebug are in place and functioning. The Cuddle-Up, Lost River and Rockets are under construction. This was the highlight of the place IMO... the detail was amazing and it looks just like CCI in the glory days. If you haven't seen it, you chould check it out. The signs said it was due to be completed late spring 2013. Here's some pics (taken on cell phone - sorry for quality.) Shaggy

I really didn't appreciate this comment, also what do you mean by west ender? Teens? or Black People? Tell me. Also tell me when has Ed been a failure at operating Kentucky Kingdom? I will be proud to send this complaint to Ed Hart. I am sure this will motivate him even more to prove YOU wrong. I meant troublemakers.... be it teens, blacks, whites, hispanics whatever. Kentucky Kingdom was an inner city park with inner city problems. That's not going to change. It's past speaks for itself... simply google things like "Kentucky Kingdom rape", or "Fight at Kentucky Kingdom", or "Kentucky Kingdom molestation." Hart has neglected to obtain the thing the park needs the most - the support and backing of Louisville citizens. He can score every loan or tax incentive he wants. He can promise large rides, a bigger waterpark, blah blah blah. But all of it is moot if the public isn't on baord. If he wants the support of Louisville - then he has to promise a park clean of the trouble that existed before. But as Terp said - Ed Hart is in it for money. He's a businessman, and wants to turn a profit. To think he's in it for the "heart" would be naive. Every one of my statements and sentiments are things that I stand behind. What I typed is no different than what I'd say to Mr Hart directly. Bottom line, I don't think my taxes should be used to grant the park another turn at bat. Folks can sugarcoat all they want.... I wont. The reality with KK was, and is: the upper income families in Louisville and surrounding areas avoided the park because it was considered a hangout for hoods. People looked down their noses at the park because it has a perception of being a gathering place for riff-raff. These same people are willing to drive a longer distance for a perceived safe, wholesome family experience - hence HW's immense success. Had this been a project to relocate KK, then I'd be all over it. The area Southest of Louisville, on I-64 towards Lexington is on the verge of booming. Within the next 5 years, the Simpsonville exit will have been developed much like that of Monroe Ohio. (A large Outlet Mall and travel destination project is in beginning stages.) The state spent millions expanding I-64 and the Simpsonville exit/overpass for the future growth. This, IMO, would be a defining location for a park in Kentucky and I would have been carrying a banner in support. But no... instead we get to look forward to a refurb of a land-locked, (historically) under-performing and trouble-layden park. From this article: http://www.wave3.com/story/21945539/changes-made-to-budget-to-get-kentucky-kingdom-open-on-time Now Shaggy, question... you said this: What was the reputation in the 1990s? Was it a baby sitter for uncontrollable west-enders on the busline? Was it heavily attended by troublemakers? I've never been to KK, but I find it hard to believe it was always like how you perceived it to be. Times were different back when Hart operated the park previously....times changed with the operators. To say that a park that was ran by the most recent operater (SIX) is how the proposed new park will run is a bit pre-mature. Different operators have different security policies and codes of conduct. I highly doubt that Hart would allow for any activies that "happened" (I use quotations because I don't remember hearing about any of them until recently and/or ever) with his business frame of mind (bad publicity = bad business). Here is the kicker though...Kings Island, Cedar Point and other parks are hands-off babysitters, sometimes for uncontrollable kids, and trouble makers. Think about it, how many times at the park do you see a group of kids between the ages of 10-15 by themselves? I saw it a ton while working at the park. I've seen numerous kids trying to start fights because someone "line-jumped them." I've seen a ton of kids placing graffiti at the parks by carving into fence posts, queue line rails and decorations, sticking their gum on walls, etc. When someone tries to stop them, generally late teens, employees, adults, the kids run their mouths trying to cause trouble, trying to act like the big man of their group, etc. The kids do not have any respect, anywhere no matter the park, so I wouldn't say it's an isolated thing at KK. If the things are true, that is truely tragic and should not have been that way, but as I said, the operator of the park is at fault....not the park itself. I truly believe the success of parks comes from various resources..but one resource is the consumers/visitors/guests/etc. When they take pride in their park, how it's operated instead of harping on how things used to be and when they start looking at how the park can grow by what they do while at the park, things are going to be a bit better. When it comes to reopening KK, if there is constant doubt and negativeness from the get-go, those people will only see the bad. It's all about perspective. Read it again... "The incentives will be paid out over ten years and are based on performance. Hart is adamant that when the park is running again it will go over as well as when he operated it in the early 1990s. "We ran a very successful facility," Hart said. "We built over 1.3 million in attendance, bringing hundreds of thousands of people, visitors, in for overnight stays." He said he ran a successful facility - referring to money (Imagine that!) he didn't speak of the guests experience. ...and experience is everything. Public perception is everything. Postive word of mouth is crucial to the success of any business. KK has a long way to go before the tarnished public opinion can be swayed... no matter how much "biggah, bettah or wettah" it is.

I'm not conflicted... I flat out do not want KK to reopen. As a Louisville, Kentucky resident, I don't want my taxes to be used to re-open a park that has proven over and over to be nothing but a hands-off babysitter for uncontrollable west-enders on the busline. It was, and will be, a park heavily attended by troublemakers. We've heard how it will be bigger, better & wetter from Ed-no-so-smart-Hart. But he's not said one thing about how much "safer" it will be. Why? Because he's not focused on that. At least when HW was involved, they were inent on improving the reputation and ensuring safety. Hart hasn't even acknowledged there was a safety issue to begin with. The whole thing is a joke - the reason local people avoided KK was that it held a bad perception. Seriously - in latter years there were at least 3 cases of rape/molestation that took place inside the park!!! Mark my words - if re-opened, it will hold that same reputation within 1 season. It's ridiculous to see this as anything but the 3rd time at the rodeo. Fool us once - shame on us... fool us twice... Astroworld had the same issue - and Houston bulldozed it. They were smart... Shaggy

Another member of the Koch family has passed - Pat's son, and Will, Dan, Kristi and Natalie's brother - Philip. http://www.courierpress.com/news/2013/apr/09/no-headline---koch/

It will be most telling if Pat doesn't appear in HW commercials this year. She's been mum on all of this... completely. I cannot imagine how broken her heart must be... losing her son, then losing the park she's known her whole life. IMO, Pat IS Holiday World. I gather than Lori didn't seem concerned about the legacy of having her kids run the park when she thought she was being bought out at the higher rate. It appears to me that for her, it's more about money than legacy. I believe Dan's intents to keep it within the family ARE about the legacy. The entire reason the brothers bought their sisters shares, rather than make them public, was obviously to keep the park in the direct control of the bloodline and under the Koch name. A lot can change with Lori - specifically her last name. I see the concern from the Koch side... there's too many variables under her ownership... (i.e. if she were to re-marry, or if her interests changed, or if the kids decided they don't want to run it...) thus opening the chance for a sell-off. Under Dan's leadership, the appropriate time could be "bought" to establish the legacy. Giving both his, and Will's kids the opportunity to mature, grow and learn into adult businesspeople who could then be entrusted to continue the legacy.

"SF only made it away with Chang. They wanted more. Brought in cranes and trucks. The Fair Board put an end to that with getting a permanent injunction against SF when they broke their lease, and had Metro Police at the park waiting for SF to show back up. Needless to say the cranes and trucks left and never came back. The bankruptcy settlement for SF and the state clearly shows SF being let out of their lease, and the state getting all remaining rides, and all the property SF owned around KK as belonging to the state." Six Flags also removed Road Runner. Of course if were not talking rides, SF also removed all theming elements, games and supplies. The park was stripped and what was left were the things SF found to be of "non importance."

I own the original Bat Press kit that the park gave out in 1981... not a reproduction - the complete original memeographed kit.

I'll believe it when I see it. Financing is no small hurdle. If you were a lender, would you want to back a park that has failed twice and been on the losing end of a multi-million dollar lawsuit?

"Patina." (Per Antiques Roadshow) ;-)