Shaggy

You think so? I don't find theming to be CF's forte either. They've had a few installs that suit the area in name and sometimes look... but overall THEMING isn't their gig. Typically, Cedar Fair develops a coaster and attatches a noteworthy name to it. Sometime it "fits" the area, sometimes is doesn't. Of course nothing can cause us to scratch our heads quite like an Aztec Tomb in the middle of Rivertown... but that's another story. Typically, CF chooses monster or beast type names with some weight to them as a stand alone. There's little regards to the surroundings IMO. Raptor, Hydra, Talon, Diamondback, Behemoth, Firehawk etc etc etc. None of those have *anything* to do with their surroundings in the parks. The best example of this is actually a forthcoming install... Intimidator at KD. It's a Nascar-named ride who's entrance will lie off the FOF plaza. FOF's entrance happens to have a theme of an "off limits government area." But that lies in the middle of a "Congo" themed section of the park. And the Congo themed area of the park also includes a Hollywood Back-Lot themed ride. Confused? We all are... I guess the point is... the days of regional "Theme Park" chains adhering to "Themed" areas are loooooong gone. Shaggy

Don't they have a parking lot coaster? Do they ever! They also count this as a coaster... which has always been up for debate. Actually, it serves as one gigantic lawn ornament AFAIK. I have no idea if the thing is, or is not operating these days. The interesting thing about the latter picture is the fact that in the background you can see cars parked in an essentialy empty parking lot. Where those cars are parked is where Scream... the coaster in the former picture... now resides. Also of note is the fact that the latter picture was likely taken from the observation tower... something that also has only had sporadic operating times through the years. (The picture is also absent the station/lift hill of Goliath, which was built intertwining with Colossus.) Shaggy

Not to mention if I were Dick Kinzel, I'd very quietly go out and buy two small kiddie coasters and add to my Snoopy area at the Point. Doesn't CP already have the kiddie coaster from GL in storage? Shaggy

Why the change in tone - because Shaggy posted the following statements Livened things up, did it not? Shaggy - ever the antagonist ;-)

Well, let me first respond to your final comments: 1. KI (Cedar Fair) would like to open a major new coaster in the next 4 years (consistent with their history) CF also has a lead time on new installs by about 3-4 years as well. That means, the next coaster for KI is probably already in developmental stages. 2. KI (Cedar Fair) is not looking to spend $20 million on a coaster anytime soon, considering the debt and recent investments in the chain. See, I view the investments as a sign that CF IS willing to spend the money on coasters. This year's announcements alone signal to me that they aren't about to get stingy now. 3. Tearing the ride out and NOT replacing it with something equally epic might hurt their image with paying guests. Why? I think tearing it out would bother very few people. People don't seem to be picketing since the ride has been closed all summer. If it's not operating, what's the difference whether it's physically present or not? CF already proved they aren't feeling to patient with temperamental rides at other parks... think Hypersonic. 4. The public (and insurance company) would buy a partially re-made SOB (a la Kennywood Tbolt and Phantom) You sure about that? I have a friend that swears he'll never ride it again... changes or not. He says "I was lucky that I didn't get hurt the first time." You can't erase that notion from people's minds with the removal of a "rosebowl." 5. The lift hill and drop are not part of the "roughness" problem. No... just the loudness problem. LOL ;-) Again, if it were me... I'd tear it down, and not necessarily replace it with a coaster... there's lots of other things that could be done with that land for far less money. Shaggy

If you are talking about the one at SFMM, California law requires that looping coasters have OTRS. Why they were first installed on Revolution, I don't know, but it can't go back. I assume that Monty's Revenge at KBF is grandfathered in. I understood the reason for Revolutions (Yes SFMM) OSTRS was based on the park's inane decision, not the states. SFKK will operate much better as a waterpark, IMO. The park has never *clicked* in it's nearly 20 years of operation. Lord knows it's tried every trick in the book... but just never felt *right.* Shaggy

... Who was once moved to be the GM of SFKK, I believe, to help revitalize that park... she was quickly moved back. I assume it's based on the obvious limitations SFKK has always faced. Shaggy

Mindbender at Six Flags Over Georgia was to become Riddler, and even got all kinds of ? marks all over it, but local management prevailed, and it was not to be. Thank goodness for that! Six Flags has a few gems in their pockets that they hardly appreciate. Mindbender is one of them... Shockwave is another... if only Mr Shapiro would recognize them and re-instate Revolution as it was intended to operate. I will say it until I am blue in the face... even B&M cannot be compared to the absolute artistry, and genious of Schwarzkopf. Shaggy

HW has been doing that to them for years... KI too... there were 4 Diamondback billboards within 2 miles of SFKK.

"When I asked Mark about Chang he had an interesting response, explaining that he was always bothered by the ride, and felt it was a glaring example of what was wrong with the previous Six Flags management. You see, the ride's name was odd and didn't exemplify what the ride did or the fun you could have on it. It was just sorta slapped down without much effort and was never really a good fit for the park." Jimminy Crickets! He needs to study up on his parks. Neither Six Flags nor Premier "Slapped down" Chang. Ed Hart... the park's previous owner did. He just stuck Premier with the bill for it. Later... Six Flags Management wanted to "re-theme" the coaster to Joker/Riddler... that's why it lost it's solid yellow color and gained purple supports. Shaggy *Edit* Whoops, others beat me to the point before I could click submit ;-)

LOL, I'm quite varied in my musical tastes. I also spent my teens in the 1980s, so I can't help it. ;-) Shaggy

the execs may say "John you have the option of either having SOB redesigned with new trains, or using the capitol to buy music licensing for the park" lol Tough choice... I'd probably have to go with the recent theme in this thread... Shaggy ;-)

No need to explain... I am enjoying the discussion... these are the types of threads I truly enjoy. A post can be read 5 different ways, with 5 different tones. I certainly didn't mean to sound condescending in my posts. I take little offense to other's disagreeing with my opinions as long as it's not a personal slap. Fact is, I would LOVE it if SOB could finally be turned into the ride it should have been. But I think that chance is nill. Than again, if someone said to me, at this point "John, you have the option of either having SOB redesigned, or using that capitol for a bevvy of other additions to KI, which do you choose?" My answer would be... "Get Bolliger and Mabillard on the phone."

You seem to have taken offense at my post. Let me clarify...Enthusiasts is a group in which I include myself. However I do not include myself in the division of enthusiasts that cannot see the forest for the... um... wooden coasters. You are absolutely right in that I am not a Cedar Fair Board Member. For all I know, it could re-open this weekend. However, if I were calling the shots... I'd put it out of it's misery. The legend and notoriety will always exist with SOB. It's been one of the most talked about coasters ever built. I know I'll not ride it again (in present shape) and that's really saying something. Most here don't know my vast past with SOB... so to see what it's been through over the years actually makes me feel bad. Many of us actually believed it was going to be one of the greatest coasters ever built. Boy, I sure rooted for it. But the fact is, it's now an embarassment to the park. And I love KI overall far more than I do any one ride in it. Shaggy

A re-design of the ride is a total improbability at this point. Many "enthusiasts" can't see the basics when it comes to the Amusement Industry. A park is no different than any retailer with a product to sell. Once that product's reliability, usefulness, marketability and reputation are compromised then you lose your target audience. Without a trusting audience, the product is no longer necessary and is viewed as a liability. In additon, there's other behind-the-scenes factors that affect a ride's fate. It may well be that the State and Park feel SOB is okay to re-open, however the insurer may no longer be willing to cover it because of the long list of troubles and lawsuits it's faced. SOB's poor reputation has sealed it's fate. At this point, I believe the only thing keeping it standing is the park's operational budget. As soon as they factor costs for it's removal into an annual budget, it will be demolished. Many of you simply don't recall Hercules. Shaggy

PKI ONLY wanted a lopping woodie... they did not seek out the world's tallest. Werner Stengel... the designer... is the one who pushed the height. He eventually convinced PPD&E based on the "World Record" aspect. It's worth noting that Werner Stengel never visited the park once the coaster was built... and has never ridden it. Quite telling if you ask me. I am sure someone else posted this, but local news channels are reporting that the park is now saying SOB is to remain closed indefinitely and likely for good. The official statement is that it's fate will be decided in the off season. Pay your respects folks. I suspect SOB will stand but not operate for another season whereupon it will then be demolished.... ALA The Bat. Shaggy

I know two people that were at KI during the filming of the episode. Oh, and did you know George Clooney attended KI one day during the filming just so he could meet the Brady Bunch? Shaggy

It should have been almost a hop, skip and a jump to the front of the park to get those plans to Mr. Brady. Of course, they never tell you the name of the park in the episode, they simply say an amusement park in Cincinnati. I guess that can give them some artistic license. Yes, but the log flume (Kenton Cove Keelboat Canal?) clearly says "Kings Island" on it, haha. I just noticed that. So it is indirectly stated in the episode that the park is Kings Island. Hey they had never been to the park before, give them a break. Maybe if they'd had a map it would have been different. The flume they rode was not KCKC... it was the Kings Mill Log Flume... which is still standing today. KCKC stood where the Canoe ride (Shawnee Landing) was in the episode. KCKC was built for the season following the filming of this episiode (1973.) The name shows up in a couple of background shots in addition to the flume scene... namely when they are entering the park you see a wide shot of the entrance. A Kings Island Inn Bus pulls up with the name clearly showing. I personally do not like the version aired on TV... there are numerous things that get cut. You should all see the episode on DVD which includes ALL footage. Pay close attention next time and you'll notice it was actually raining in some shots. It rained late in the week of filming. Someone mentioned their not filming within the HB area. It was a licensing issue. But if you look closely, you can see it. Namely, you can see the Enchanted Voyage in the background of at least one scene. Shaggy

SFOG has always had a problem with flooding since it's essentially in a valley... however that's the worst I've ever seen it. Shaggy

Thanks! Interpreter: I met Steve at Phoenix Phall Phunfest many moons ago. He was a lively guy, and one of the all time great coaster lovers. I was sad to hear of his passing. Violakat: I have one of those lists too.... aren't they great! Marking Coney off was a HUGE accomplishment for me. And I've been lucky enough to mark quite a few other biggies off the list in recent years... My next really BIG one is being planned for 3 years from now. I hope to celebrate my 40th seeing Austria and Switzerland. I've never been to Europe, but know in my heart of hearts, that I'll be breathtaken. In regards to your profile icon picture... I visited Ground Zero in the morning prior to going to Coney. While we were there, they were imbedding a steel beam from the World Trade Center into the new building's foundation. Shaggy

This is long, so enjoy the journey with me. Are things ever what you envision them to be? I’d been putting off a visit to Manhattan for sometime. Not for any real reason other than circumstance. I knew I wanted to venture to the great white way to see 9 to 5 on Broadway. (I love me some Dolly!) My intention was to see it in the spring, but in typical “me” fashion, time began escaping. The economy bottomed and in late July the trade papers began uttering rumblings of an early closure due to not recouping weekly running costs. (Sorry, I’m a 15 year vet of Broadway booking and producing) It’s a problem many, many Broadway shows are facing these days. (Well, unless they have the deep pockets of the mouse, wear a porcelain mask or feature a certain green witch.) With news of 9 to 5’s imminent demise, I immediately booked my trip to NYC and I arrived on Aug 23rd. Monday the 24th saw a huge dream realized… and no, it had nothing to do with Dolly. ;-) The timing couldn’t have been better. You see, ever since I was a wee lad, I was fascinated with turn of the century amusement parks. Top of that heap was Coney Island in Brooklyn. For those who have little knowledge of Coney, I’ll give a brief layman’s Coney Island history lesson. Coney Island was not 1 park, as many assume. Coney Island was a collection of amusements and attractions that once made up a beachfront resort stretching nearly 4 miles in Brooklyn. Brooklyn lies between the Atlantic Ocean and the island of Manhattan. In its heyday, Coney Island annually attracted millions of visitors to its beaches. Amusements began cropping up in the form of side shows, then rides, eventually scenic railways (the predecessor to the modern coaster) and over-the-top parks and attractions. A subway line was built from Manhattan to Coney around 1915, and this prompted the resort area to explode. By the 1920’s Coney Island was the world’s most expansive and leading amusement resort area. The three main parks on the beachfront were Luna Park, Steeplechase, and Dreamland. Steeplechase is credited as being the frontrunner and example by which modern amusement parks were based. In addition to these parks, plots of land were leased to entrepreneurs who, among other things, built the new novelty… scenic railways. These ramshackle gravity driven railcars soon became roller coasters. Three notable coasters were built during the 1920s, the Tornado, Thunderbolt and Cyclone. The Cyclone remains the only coaster from Coney’s heyday still in operation. I believe it was ironically the last coaster built in it’s time period. The Tornado was lost in the 1970s and the Thunderbolt met its fate just this decade after standing but not operating for 20 years. After World War II, Coney fell victim to crime and urban development. Ultimately, gang warfare in the 1950’s (think West Side Story) and extreme low income housing installations resulted in the essential demise of America’s playground. Steeplechase Park was the holdout, but fell victim to closure in the mid 1960s. The demise can be blamed on the collective feel that Coney was no longer a safe place to visit. Astroland was opened around 1962 as an attempt to revive the dying amusement business. However the ongoing threat of crime, highly publicized subway incidents and the Worlds Fair nearly closed the park. It struggled and survived until recently when the owners sold the park to a new developer. It stands idle today. Coney Island sort of became an embarrassment of sorts to NYC Officials in the 1970s. Fred Trump (Donald’s father) actually spearheaded a campaign aimed at destroying any remaining amusements and having the area rezoned to outlaw them. Thankfully, he failed, saving what little is left. The man was so hell-bent on destroying what history remained that he actually held parties to throw bricks at still-standing structures! There are 4 significant attractions that have survived from the heyday of Coney Island. The Wonder Wheel, Nathan’s Hot Dog Stand, The Parachute Jump and the Cyclone are the few trace remnants. History lesson over. I can’t quite describe my pre-conceived visions of what my experience at Coney Island would be like. I had seen it from the air when flying in and out of NY airports. And Lord knows I had read enough about it. However I wasn’t quite sure of how run-down and barren it would be and if much of it’s past would be recognizable. My friend Nathan was a good sport and willing to go with me on the excursion. At the very least, it was good to have the support and conversation as the subway ride from the Times Square area went on, and on, and on… I have to admit trepidation in riding the subway through what I had always heard was a high crime area. I’m a big guy, so is Nathan… and we can hold our own… but I did wonder if the word TOURIST would beacon out from our forehead inviting trouble. How naïve! As the train went on, stop after stop, fewer people were left on it. By the end, we were virtually the only two left in the train. (Not counting the person sleeping in a curled up ball in the rear corner. They never woke up to my knowledge and are probably still there.) As the train rounded Brighton Beach, I began to piece it together. In front of me was the area I had so often envisioned in my mind. Yet it was seemingly different from those mental snapshots. It was a very warm, bright sunny day, so there were people bathing on the beaches. From inside the train, I first saw the ocean, then the Cyclone, then the Wonder Wheel and finally the Parachute Jump. Quite honestly, I had déjà vu (the experience, not the ride) reminding me of defunct parks from my childhood. I instantly remembered the smell and feel of Ocean View Park and Buckroe Beach. They were a stones throw away from me as a kid. Those parks are long gone, but no doubt once thrived on the successfully laid groundwork of Coney Island. There are still arcades and side-show type attractions… but not in a nice vintage way. Most were reminiscent of one of those horrid portable carnivals that travel the country. Most annoying was the loud rap music screaming from inside these places and airbrushed graffiti on the outside exteriors. We passed by Surf Avenue t-shirt souvenir junk stand hecklers and headed directly for the coaster. So there I finally stood at the entrance to the Cyclone after 37 years. (Of me, not it.) But I can’t explain what I felt. I guess you could say it was like seeing a long lost friend, or meeting one you’ve never met face to face. It was instantly familiar to me, but also unfamiliar. I felt a million miles away from home in that instant. Odd. But, lots of things crossed my mind. It surprised me that so much of it was made of steel. It was well kept, but rundown at the same time. It only had around 20 people riding. It had that “smell” - you know the one. Grease, wonderful hot coaster chain grease. It’s been painted about a million times. There were very few tourists. It was actually bigger/longer than I expected. After a confusing ticket purchase at the entrance booth (under the 2nd turnaround) we were up the entrance ramp and boarding the front seat of the train with no wait. If I had it to do over again, I’d probably soak up the surroundings a bit more. But it seemed like in a flash I was trying feverishly to fit 6’ 3” me into an overly padded car built for people 5’ tall. CLUNK! …was the sound my knee made hitting the metal lap bar bracket getting into the very front seat. I had the souvenir bruise for a week, something those junk peddlers couldn’t sell. No time to say “ouch” though… we were already off and running. Never in my life have I felt such pressure to get in, sit down and be latched so quickly into a coaster. We were turning the corner to the lift before I even realized I still had my hat on. Heck I don’t think I even saw the infamous “Secure Wigs and Hats” sign until back in the station! (Did you know that the “wig” part of the sign serves a purpose? It has shut down several times due to wigs flying off and jamming the wheels!) The coaster ride experience was what I predicted it to be. Rough, very rough. But it’s allowable for such a piece of history. The train dips left to right shimmying up the lift. The first drop was every bit as steep as people claim it to be. But that second drop off the turn… eeeeeouch! Don’t ask me to quote the ride to you. I just know it was longer than I expected it to be… but in an okay way. After about two minutes, it was done. My first ride on the Cyclone was reality, and now a part of history. We opted to pay the $5 for a re-ride which proved just as rough and just as rushed. LOL After exiting, I took my pictures, filmed the coaster in action, and called my Dad from the boardwalk. I was feeling all sentimental and wanted him to somehow be there to ride it with me. He’s the one that got me started on these things after all. I got his voice mail. LOL! Nathan is scared of heights. So of course I insisted that we ride the Wonder Wheel next. Nathan is scared of unstable things. So of course I insisted we ride a swinging car. The devil in me didn’t get enough of a charge out of forcing him to the top of the Empire State Building the night prior. (*See footnote at the bottom) So I thought the Wonder Wheel would do the trick. Deno’s Wonder Wheel has a story of its own. Constantinos Dionysios Vourderis, otherwise known as Denos, came to the US as an immigrant and earned a living as a young man pushing vending carts. He once promised his wife that he would buy her the Wonder Wheel as a symbol of his love. “The largest wedding ring” he called it. He eventually managed a restaurant at Coney and began managing the park that was home to the Wonder Wheel. When the owners fell on hard times, Denos asked to buy it, and was sold the ride for far less than its value… all because they knew his love for the ride would preserve its history. He built a new park around it, and viola! Deno’s Wonder Wheel Park. Great story, huh? I digress… It seems my evil plans backfire. Once we got on the wheel, I immediately started clicking pictures and filming. Within an instant we dipped, dropped and swung. It unnerved me. I had ridden the version at California Adventure, and had no issue there. But I guess the rusty bolts and the fact that it’s about 80 years old had a larger impact than I thought. After the initial descent, I was fine and managed to capture on video Nathan breathlessly screaming “Oh, Oh, Oh dear Lord!!!” and holding on like a frightened caged cat. Muhahahahaha! With that, the riding portion of our day was over. Well, amusement riding portion anyway. Other than kiddie or carnival type rides, there’s few amusements there to enjoy these days. So we walked the boardwalk. Now although I couldn’t explain what I felt when arriving at the Cyclone, I distinctly recall what I felt as we walked the boardwalk. I felt old boards, classic old boards that seem unsecure and ready to break. It felt so great and nostalgic to me. Actually, it was my uneasy feeling on those boards that gave me the sensation of time gone by. This was THE most famous boardwalk ever built, and I was there. Thank God it’s been preserved (albeit moved in the 60s) over the years and not sacrificed for beachfront condos. As monumental as this was to me, it was also melancholy. There are ghosts of the past that seemingly haunt the boardwalk. These looming spirits seem to blow in the air even on a bright sunny day. There’s a sound, a look, a feel that exists that can’t really be put into words. It reminds you of men in Bowlers, and Women wearing corsets and children in knee high socks all roaming around in awe of the sites at a time when electricity was astounding. There’s a mental reminder of just how far and distant our world, and country is from its roots. Progress and technology has made our lives so much easier, but it came at a cost of our innocence. I envy those simpler times. In place of the Great Luna and Dreamland now there’s an Aquarium. In place of Steeplechase, there’s a minor league ball field. Where the Thunderbolt stood rotting for so long, is an overgrown field. The Parachute Jump, Brooklyn’s Eiffel Tower, still stands (non operationally) to this day, and likely gives ghost rides to those spirits still roaming the boardwalk. Then there’s Nathan’s Hot Dog Stand. It’s nearly 100 years old, and true to its claims, serves the best chili dogs ever made. And yes, I planned it… I planned for Nathan and I to end our time at Coney Island eating an original Nathan’s hot dog. It was the least I could do for someone so willing to brave the Wonder Wheel. I wish the best for Coney Island. But I don’t see it ever returning to the glory days it once knew. I am ecstatic that the Cyclone, Parachute Jump, and Wonder Wheel are all preserved as historical landmarks to remind people such as us of the great place it was and all the laughter and excitement it brought to so many. I am grateful that I got to, in a small way, play a spectator’s part in its continuing history. Will I return? Maybe, if it feels right. But for now I am happy with my new visions and understanding of what Coney Island was and is. I have enjoyed learning and exploring and will continue to so do by viewing archives of what once existed. However, I want to preserve my fond memories like those old black and white vintage snapshots of the past. My trip to Coney Island is one that I’ll recall with fondness like so many millions of happy visitors before me. (For those that may be interested… yes I saw 9 to 5, yes it was as good as I hoped, yes I’d recommend it, yes it closed this past weekend. LOL!) *Footnotes: Empire State Building: It’s a long wait to get to the top, only to be pushed and shoved like cattle along with an endless amount of foreign tourists all to get a glimpse of… rooftops. It was the only disappointing part of an amazing week in Manhattan. It is of note that out of the endless amount of things to do in NYC, it is my opinion that a ride on the Staten Island Ferry at dusk cannot be beat. It is an amazing experience that costs… nothing. It is by far my favorite experience there.

It just prooves where the bulk of voters live. The northeast rides typically pull a ton of votes. Such a big part of these results is based on geographical demographics. Still, remarkably on-point. Shaggy

Screamscape IS just a rumor site, but I know for a fact that parks "leak" info to him to help keep interest buzzing. I've seen it firsthand. But a word of caution about Screamscape... things get "altered" over time. As more accurate clues and rumors get posted, past updates get "edited." That way when latter rumors proove to be true, the initial false ones he posted are gone, and he can say "I told you so." I love Screamscape, read it all the time. But the "told you so's" irritate me. Shaggy

Give him a break... He's red-headed and fair skinned... like I am... and probably not sunburned, just red. I turn red after about 5 minutes in the sun, doesn't mean I am burned, just means my skin is hot. Anticlimactic? Only if you somehow were wishing for something else. I personally think its a good addition for them. Good to see water rides making a comeback. (Many here are too young to remember the days when outside of a flume there were virtually no water rides at parks... in the mid 1980's raft rides revolutionized the industry spurring interest in water attractions once again. Maybe this will do the same.) Shaggy

Good for them! Looks like a fun ride, and nice to see something different at CP. I doubt I'll ride though... I would, but going under one of those drenching waterfalls is not my idea of fun. Why did they have to put that in there? Shaggy