johnjniehaus

So this was a very interesting assessment that made me start thinking - 2019: Carowinds (Copperhead Strike), Canada's Wonderland (Yukon Striker) 2020: Kings Island (Orion) 2021: n/a 2022: King's Dominion (Tumbili) 2023: Cedar Point (Wild Mouse), Canada's Wonderland (Snoopy's Racing Railway), World's of Fun (Zambezi Zinger) 2024: Cedar Point (TTD Reimagined), Dorney Park (unnamed coaster project) 2025: My best guess is new coasters at Kings Island & Carowinds 2026: My best guess is new coasters at Kings Dominion and Canada's Wonderland Based on this, I think we can safely try to predict the future Cedar Fair investments. We all know CGA is not going to see any new coaster additions seeing as the park's days are now numbered. Michigan's Great Adventure and Valleyfair both could use an investment in the coming years however, I honestly see them as prime candidates for relocated attractions from CGA (if Rail Blazed could be relocated I think it would be a win for either of these two parks) In that scenario, I think CP should relocate Rougarou to whichever park doesn't get Rail Blazer. Rougarou doesn't seem that popular at CP (at least whenever I'm there) and would be a star attraction at either of the other two parks while of course freeing up a valuable plot of land at CP. World's of Fun and Dorney Park are getting their new coasters this year and next year so I think Cedar Fair will abandon them in terms of coaster investments for awhile. Now concerning the larger flagship parks - Cedar Point: After the wild mouse and TTD Reimagined, I think they will be good for a few years until a new plot opens up either because of an existing coater reaching the end of it service life or a relocation of Rougarou (see previous paragraph) Carowinds: I absolutely agree with Hawaiian Coasters 325 that Carowinds is going to be on top priority for a new coaster (probably 2025) They have the space, they are a big park, and haven't received any new coasters since COVID. Kings Island: I'm still thinking 2025 is our year. It'll be 5 years since the opening of Orion and we have available space in The Vortex plot. Canada's Wonderland: while it's true that Yukon Striker was added pre-covid, they are getting Snoopy's Racing Railway this year (2023) which while it's a subpar coaster addition it does count. I think they will see a new big coaster addition in 2026. Knott's Berry Farm: So last I heard Knott's is landlocked much like CP which means unless they are moving stuff or demolishing existing attractions, I'm not sure when they will see a new coaster addition. I also think that Knott's is a unique CF park as it's one of the only ones I'd classify as a "theme park" and perhaps Knott's future is not in the newest coasters but in solid dark rides/story rides that complete the experience and fit better with what makes Knott's different from other parks in the chain. Kings Dominion: Kings Dominion....like Canada's Wonderland, got a poor excuse of a new coaster with Tumbili. KD was hurt by losing Shockwave and Volcano so close together and technically Hurler. So if we look at the lineup, Hurler was replaced by Twisted Timbers, Shockwave (though replaced by Delirium) you could argue was replaced by Tumbili leaving Volcano as the void that needs filled. I'm thinking 2025 or 2026 is the year for KD first because they really do still need a replacement for volcano but second because I'm not sure how much longer they are going to want to hang onto Andaconda (they really need to replace Volcano before removing any more coasters).

If the original Bat (1981) had actually worked and did not have all the design flaws and maintenance issues that it did, or if they had chose to totally re-track the ride with banked turns around 1984 this would have impacted the park history in a small way. First, Vortex would have never been built because The Bat would have been corrected (or worked properly from the beginning in that scenario). Second, Top Gun/Flight Deck/The Bat (1993) would have never been built because KI would have already had an Arrow Suspended Coaster. Perhaps by 1993, they would have been ready to add an Arrow looper perhaps in the area occupied by the former safari monorails. Who knows? (This is all speculation of course). I'm not exactly sure what the lifespan of an Arrow suspended coaster is seeing as there is controversy surrounding wether Big Bad Wolf was indeed at the end of it's service life or not when BGW decided to remove it. XLR-8 at Astro World closed with the park and presumably didn't reach the end of it's service life. I'm not exactly sure when/why Eagles Fortress was removed but it wasn't that old of a coaster either. Iron Dragon is apparently still good at CP and they are even taking track and supports out for whatever construction they are doing on dragster unless CP is actually making a substantial investment in Iron Dragon and replacing track and supports (which I highly doubt. Regardless, my point is that ID must not be totally worn out quite yet or they would probably not hesitate to remove it for expansion sake. It also is a slower coaster and perhaps doesn't put as much force/stress on it's structure or track explaining why it's still operating. (It opened the same year as Vortex in 1987). As far as I know there's been no talk of any of the other Arrow Suspended Coasters being removed (Ninja at Magic Mountain, Vampire at Chessington World of Adventure, and Vortex at Canada's Wonderland). To sum up, I personally think that even if the original Bat had worked properly from the beginning/or had been re-tracked in 1984 that by now it would have been scrapped. The ride would have been 40 years old in 2021 and while a possible re-track in 1984 would have given it a few more years of life, that still means it would be nearing it's 40th season in 2024. I just don't see how it could have lasted that long and without an ACE Landmark Status (which it probably would have gained actually) there's a very slim chance KI would have kept it around for 40 years. If it had gained a Coaster Landmark Status as the first suspended coaster (given ACE or KI invested a substantial amount of $ in refurbishments), history could have been very different. Perhaps the ride would still be operating at the far end of Coney Mall today!

I really like the switch to a Mayan civilization theme for Adv Express seeing as it matches the Sol Spin very nicely and the rest of the newly themed areas. Can't wait to actually hear the backstory/que theme for Adventure Express when it reopens. I'm still hoping for Adventure Port on Opening Day and none of this wait until May type of stuff (aka beast re-track) also if they are taking the time to repaint the heads on the lift hill, I can't wait to see what they do with the tunnels!

Yep I played the old classic one when I was a kid and I remember that if you charged more than 20c to use the restrooms your park rating would start to tank from all the complaints. KI better be careful with their bathroom marketing strategy here....

Glad to hear that!

Yeah so historic announcement is once again the removal of a rare coaster type. Really hoping to they announce a 2.0 version but guess we'll see..At least they gave everyone a year for last rides unlike Kings Island when we lost Vortex and had a few weekends to get out last rides and sadly I never did get one after they announced the closure.

Never got to ride it, super bummed they closed it (especially after they recently finished a long refurbishment on it), and like always I'm questioning the six flags park management. I always wanted to ride this one and it was always closed or broken down every time I would go to six flags st Louis so yeah I think it was unreliable but at the same time the ride model is so rare, it actually gave them something that other parks didn't have. However, six flags as a whole doesn't seem to be wanting to make big investments in any of their parks currently and certainly not in the mid-low tier ones like st Louis. I hate to see any unique ride get closed just because you are losing something you can't experience other places. However, what is more irritating about this removal is that six flags I'm sure will wait around awhile to replace it and whenever they do it'll be some generic flat ride that won't be open half the time for whatever reason (at least Xcalibur usually had a reason). Anyway, I'm clearly not in amusement park management or leadership type positions and hate to say what I would do in certain situations however, I'm all for the preservation of the existing rides that remain popular and/or unique!

So here's my two cents on the matter - I personally feel like they will wait till 2025 to open the next coaster at KI for the following reasons. First, CP is getting the huge investment of the Dragster reopening and historically KI and CP do not open new coasters the same year. Also, Dorney Park seemingly is going to receive a new coaster for 2024 so not sure if they are looking to make a big KI investment next year. I personally think we will get a water park improvement, new restaurant, or nothing in 2024 and then get the new coaster in 2025. I would like to see a Vekoma Mad House in Tomb Raider building open in 2024 or see Boo Blaster restored to phantom Theater in 2024 but I think it's doubtful because historically the year before a major coaster addition we get squat. For example, 2008 brought nothing but the renaming of the paramount attractions for a big investment of Dback opening in 2009. 2013 brought us a new dinosaur for Dinosaurs Alive and the Miami river brewhouse gearing up for 2014 Banshee. 2016 they added tropical plunge to Soak City then gave us Mystic Timbers in 2017. In 2019 they shockingly gave us the antique cars and followed it up with Orion in 2020. However you can see the pattern here small investment leading up to the big one. I think adventure port is too big to be the "small investment leading up to the big one". It is a new restaurant, two new flats, and some amount of work/enhancement to the existing Adventure Express. So when the time comes for the new coaster, my wish and money is on The Vortex plot. I do agree that Action Zone needs a facelift and a new ride would help that immensely but it's not quite time for that yet. I'm not sure what the lifespan is on The Bat (praying it's a long time or they do something to save it but because it's an arrow and not a coaster landmark, it's doubtful that they would make a huge investment on it) but I can't see it lasting another 10 years. Same for Invertigo and while it's the last Vekoma Invertigo model in the USA and it'll be sad to lose another rare coaster, I can't see park management keeping it around forever. As someone else pointed out the EXtreme Skyflyer days are possibly numbered based on the recent trend of demolishing additional cost attractions and that it's roughly 30 years old. Congo Falls is another one that seems disposable and of course nobody knows what the heck they plan to do with Timberwolf. My point is that given some time we will see a drastic change in Action Zone as the rides get older and are most likely removed. As for 2024/2025 I think it's The Vortex plot that gets the new coaster. As for what type of coaster, my #1 pick is a Vekoma Shockwave like Abyssus at Energylandia and the new Dragon in the Jungle coaster at Dragon Valley in China. First of all these look like a ton of fun and the way they utilize terrain would fit The Vortex plot very nicely. Also, Abyssus has a 48" height requirement which is very important to me. Seeing as we lost a coaster with that height requirement we should build one that targets that audience. Also, currently our looper with the lowest height requirement is Banshee and I've always thought that was a bit intense to be you first looper. In KI history, King Cobra was the best one seeing as it only had the one inversion but Vortex also worked because while it had 6 inversions, the ride itself was not as forceful or as intense as Banshee. These Vekoma Shockwave coasters usually have 4-6 inversions I believe and would fill the void left by Vortex in our coaster lineup. Other people have suggested the Mack Rides Extreme Spinner and if I can't have a Modern Vekoma, that would probably be a good second. I personally am against an RMC at this time just because CP has one of the best ones and I want something that CP doesn't have. CP has countless things we don't so when are we ever going to be able to say we have _____ and you don't? Also, while I love B&M I am against adding another at this time just because there's so many other great manufacturers right now and I want something that's different!

Actually I think that's what makes the ride model more compelling to me is that very few American amusement parks have them! Now maybe some people aren't thrilled with them and they are a once and done type of ride but I enjoyed Houdini's Great Escape at Six Flags Great Adventure so much I rode it numerous times that day. Just the mechanics of how it works has always amazed me and I think it's a great family ride. (Plus did we forget to mention they are indoors and operate during the rain?) I saw people of all age groups on the one at Six Flags - kids, teenagers, and grandparents and it seemed to scare the teens the most actually....

I've always liked this idea and all of your points are valid! In my personal opinion whatever they are cooking up to replace Vortex can wait till 2025 and they need to either give us the madhouse or they need to restore boo blaster to the phantom Theater. Either one works for me!

Liking what I'm seeing and I'm very hopeful this will all be done by opening day...it will be almost as disappointing as opening day 2022 when we walked back to The Beast and realized it would still be closed for another month or so if Adventure Port isn't finished by opening day.

Last year I did an eastern trip hitting Lakemont Park, Knoebles, Six Flags Great Adventure (NJ), Hershey Park, and Busch Gardens Williamsburg. (Originally planned to go to Six Flags America but didn't work out). I'm wanting to get back to that side of the country and tack on Carowinds, Dorney, and SFA. The only park mentioned above that I can give advice on is Busch Gardens Williamsburg. First, if they are offering the rollercoaster insider tour when you are going (given you are into that sort of thing) you should definitely take advantage of it. I wasn't sure how "good" it would be but I had a great time and the cost was not bad (included the tour, parking, and 2 skip the line opportunities on all 4 coasters featured on the tour) My guides Dori and Ethan were very informative, took their time with the group, made sure to get to know everyone, and shared some very good information on the mechanics of the rides/history of the park and the attractions. I would definitely do it again if I had the opportunity. In my experience, the food offerings were good and themed to each area of the park. Other information to keep in mind is that Loch Ness Monster is often the first coaster to open in the morning while Verboten is usually the last to open so running straight to the back of the park probably isn't the best idea. Whenever I was there in Aug 2022, Loch Ness Monster closed an hour before the rest of the park (not sure if that's normal or was just that day type of deal but they should have a sign posted if a ride is closing early) Also, if you ride the Skyride, keep in mind that you must exit at the next station (there are 3) and you will have to wait in line again to proceed to the next stop (many guests seemed to be arguing with staff that they wanted to ride "roundtrip" because they had left family members, strollers, wheelchairs, etc at the station they came from) Hope you have a great time and make sure to give us all a full report on KICentral.

This looks awesome! Dorney Park definitely seems like it gets forgotten by Cedar Fair quite a bit. Unfortunately, I was planning on going this year so I might have to rethink my travel plans....

Unfortunately, the older Schwarzkopf coasters are disappearing. Not sure what type of condition this one is in or what repairs it might need but I hope that it's in good enough shape to be relocated rather than scrapped. Thankfully a few have become ACE Coaster Landmarks through the years but it seems that the majority of the preferred ones are still unprotected. I'm going to be crying the day that Shockwave at Six Flags Over TX bites the dust.

Regardless of how you judge it, for the amount of rides/rollercoasters the Cedar Fair parks have, they are very affordable. I traveled a bit over last summer and here's what I found - Kings Island: I have a pass but my extended family doesn't. They paid $20 to park and about $45 per ticket. Not bad at all for a large scale park. Food is average in price Cedar Point: usually about $30ish to park I think but they sometimes have a deal. Tickets usually range from $45-$55 whenever I've bought them. Food is very expensive here in My opinion Busch Gardens Williamsburg/Tampa: $30 parking and tickets can be over $100 if they aren't running a deal. Even the deals are around $60 for entry. Food is expensive Knoebles Amusement Park: Free Parking but I dropped $60+ on tickets for 4 hours and never came close to riding everything...I think an all day ride pass (sold during the week) is around $40. Food is very affordable here I think! Kennywood: free parking if you want to walk a longer distance. Was about $50 a person when my sister and I went last year. Food was normal pricing Six Flags Parks: Usually anywhere from $20-$30 parking, since price increases tickets have been high $50-$70 for 1 day depending on park. Food is also average to a bit expensive I think. Universal Studios: $30 parking and for 1 day to 1 park it's a minimum of $109 and if you want to go to both is a minimum of $164. Food is kinda high too I think.... this place is clearly expensive That's just a few examples. So while there are probably "cheaper" parks than KI, for what you are paying for and the amount of attractions you get, KI is very affordable.

Not sure what to say on this one other than Disney consistently misses opportunities to make money....why didn't they package up some splash mountain water and have Iger sign the certificate and sell it for souvenirs? I mean Cedar Fair sold off Vortex super quick and I'm pretty sure wicked Twister didn't last too awful long either. We still have Kings Island offering cool collectables like racer and beast wood, Eiffel Tower paint chips, And Railroad Spikes or something like that. Don't forget about the vintage Coney island books too! The reason Disney missed out on this golden opportunity to make a bunch of cash off of the remaining splash mountain fans (which according to fan petitions are up around 100k) is the same reason they refuse to release the theatrical versions of Star Wars (unless there's a secret deal with George that prohibits it). I'm just saying that Disney consistently misses opportunities to make some money and instead does stupid stuff like axing magical express, and fast pass, and raising prices.... Guess this is why I'm not in the financial industry or marketing industry because the whole pay more for less motto numerous companies have adopted doesn't make sense to me. I will say it right here right now Thank You Cedar Fair for the Free Year of Gold Passes (2021) and thank you for not raising prices drastically, and thank you for still delivering great new attractions and for maintaining some of the older ones too! So lucky to have KI as my home park!

Yes I absolutely loved the Houdini themed Mad House at Six Flags Great Adventure and as far as I know there's only 3 or 4 in the USA so it would be a welcome ride to Kings Island that could have a great story mode to it. I'd like to see the building get a facelift with perhaps a mine/oil rig design but if that's too difficult or expensive at least paint it brown or something other than the "I'm screaming that I don't belong here white" color that it currently is. However, I think the madhouse is a great idea, great ride, and would also be something families can ride (lower height requirements) and is also an indoor ride that can operate in inclement weather and during winterfest! I'm all for it!

Yes I meant the KI Theater...for some reason whenever I type Tinkers Toy Factory the Festhaus automatically feels natural to type next. (I've already had to correct another forum so thanks for catching me again) My favorite winterfest is probably 2017 or 2018 but Tinker's Toy Factory being in THE Kings Island THEATER (did I finally get it right? :p) was a highlight of the 2022 Winterfest.

Busch Gardens Tampa was a very nice park with lots of shade which is very welcome in FL heat. The ques were also either shaded or indoors...the downside was the park was so busy that I only got one ride on everything I rode during the day. (Sheikra and Iron Gwazi were both closed for maintenance which was rather annoying seeing as I live 14hrs from the park and probably won't be back in the near future) Here's my thoughts on the rides I was able to experience Cheetah Hunt: Definitely the best coaster at this park. Comparable to Maverick at Cedar Point so it's definitely a top tier ride. Montu: Possibly my new favorite invert. I have always personally enjoyed Raptor at CP more than Banshee at KI but Montu was a very good layout and was also very smooth. It also has the old restraints (no tight vests like Banshee) Cobra's Curse: Best Spinning Coaster I've very ridden. Parts of ride are taken forward then backwards and then finally the finale is an out of control feeling of spinning but not to the degree of making anyone dizzy or nauseous. Kumba: Very impressive B&M looper however, I think it's showing some age with it's rattle and mild head banging. It rides very similar to Rougarou at CP which isn't the most pleasant ride experience but it's still full of terrific elements and speedy transitions within it's terrain focused layout. Scorpion: The weakest Schwarzkopf looper I've ridden but still very enjoyable. It's a rather short layout with only 1 vertical loop and and double helix figure 8 section. Surprisingly smooth for it's age and does pull some decent G-Force for a coaster it's size. Sand Serpent: The run of the mill Wild Mouse. Not much more to add. Was enjoyable but nothing to write home about. Stanley Falls Flume: Was a neat log ride that actually traveled the chute rather rapidly (much like Kings Mills Log Flume picks up a lot of speed). Good final hill and water splash too. Serengeti Express: Busch's super long train ride takes you from station to station around and through some wild animal habitats. Tigris: Not a personal fan of Skyrocket II models so opted not to ride this one.

So Jan 2-3 I've been in FL to visit Sea World and Busch Gardens for the first time. Just finished Sea World today and I'll share my experience below. I'll be posting my thoughts on Busch Gardens (going tomorrow) later on. Sea World was definitely a good park with great animals and shows. Saw Orca, Dolphin, and Sea Lion shows. Good amount of shade at the park and beautiful landscaping. I didn't think it was very strong on themed areas (most of the park had the same landscape vibe) but the theming on the rides was definitely very prevalent. Going in I got to See the nearly completed Surf Coaster and it was actually smaller than I had thought it would be. (Shorter in height and length). I love Standup Coasters so hopefully this one will be awesome.... just not sure if I'll be back in FL at all in 2023 and if I am will I be at sea World? Ice Breaker also managed to have it's fair share of issues. First, it was experiencing a late opening due to technical difficulties and then once it opened it had a 2hr wait and then closed in the afternoon because of more technical delays and was announced around 5 that it wouldn't reopen at all. So I did not get to experience Ice Breaker either... On to the rides I did experience. First was the B&M flyer Manta which was absolutely beautiful. Definitely my second fav flyer after Tatsu at SFMM. Second, was the weird water coaster/splash boat ride Journey to Atlantis. Very good, never rode anything quite like it, and it had a short wait earlier in the morning. Was unable to get a second ride due to 90+ min lines rest of day. Third, was the B&M floorless Kraken. I've never got why people like Floorless Coasters and I still curse the day Cedar Point announced the Mantis Conversion to floorless. I personally think that floorless are less unique and often are rough rides (moderate head banging and B&M rattling). However, Kraken was flawless, smooth, forceful, had airtime, great elements, great pacing it was a GREAT ride and if every floorless was like Kraken I would be riding them a lot more than I do. Fourth, was the B&M hyper Mako. So with Mako I hear people saying it's better than Dback and frankly no it's not. Mako is a relaxing floater airtime machine that delivers a smooth ride with perfect airtime that lasts nearly 6 seconds over each camelback. However, after the midcourse breaks, Mako was really lackluster and boring in my opinion....lots of turns with no forces and no airtime. Diamondback is a better hyper from start to finish. Lastly I rode Infinity Falls which might be the best white water rafting ride I've ridden. The huge drop was amazing the actual flume channel was filled with surprises too! If I'm ranking the coasters I rode at Sea World Orlando here's my list - 1. Kraken (blew me away because I expected it to suck and it was phenomenal!) 2. Mako (great airtime but is a little over-hyped) 3. Manta (solid flyer second to only Tatsu, familiar but fun too) 4. Journey to Atlantis (if this counts, it was definitely interesting and fun but can't compete with other "real" coasters)

I'm sorry I meant that Tinker needs to stay in the KI Theater. I can see why that was confusing. I meant to say KI Theater and somehow Festhaus got mixed up in there. I agree that it would be nice to see a show in International Showplace... I'm kinda surprised they don't find a way to use it. The Cincinnati Zoo has a sloped amphitheater they use for the puppet show thing. I also agree that the Festhaus is an odd showplace and that Tinker was always hard to hear in there because of all the talking and clamor of it also being a restaurant. However, Swinging Into Christmas was not very good. Sure it was loud enough but I didn't recognize any of the songs I heard (given I left after 3 songs) and frankly I just thought it was a boring/bizarre show with strange songs. I honestly was more interested in reading my Goodbye Coney Island book I bought tonight for $6.75 than whatever was going on with Swinging Into Christmas. On a different topic they need to keep those premium funnel cakes (creme brulee and peppermint) on the Winterfest menu....they were the best funnel cakes I've ever had.

I still love the 2017 winterfest because it was all brand new and something I'd never seen at the park. (And their sweatshirt quality is impeccable! I've worn that shirt for 5 years and it still looks very new) however, I have enjoyed Tinker Toy Factory in the Festhaus immensely (saw it 3x in one night and many times thereafter) so that's a pro for 2022....

Well I visited for the final time this year as I'll be heading south to FL at the end of the week. My dad got to play Scrooge in what the Dickens tonight which was fun. Got to sit with a guy who works in the entertainment at the park during the Tinkers Toy Factory Show and he was giving us the scoop on all the performers in the show this year. I think that show is the biggest success of the 2022 Winterfest. As always, Poindexter and Santa are awesome and of course my family has a favorite Tinker actor (I believe I was told his name was David, short guy in the blue hat). I finally saw the new Swinging Into Christmas and frankly I didn't stay past the 3rd song...Not sure what the show was trying to accomplish other than drown out the Festhaus noise. Didn't recognize any of the songs and while others may enjoy the show because it's different, I'm a traditionalist and want to hear the songs we all know and love. Give me some Bing Crosby, Burl Ives, Sinatra, Eartha Kitt, Frankie Valli, etc and I'll be happy. Also saw the Cool Yule Christmas which seemed to have a lot more "modern" songs as well. Anyway, one of the best things about winterfest is I guess there's something for everyone but if I had a wish for next year, it would be for a new indoor show with more traditional Christmas songs or even a show based off the movie White Christmas which includes many great dance numbers and songs. Just a thought. Regardless Tinker MUST stay in Festhaus (*edit: KI Theater) and hopefully most of the cast from this year returns for 2023 because I've enjoyed all of their performances. (I do want to see the original version return in 2023 instead of "Christmas Fever Edition")

So according to one guest Flight of Fear was formerly Tomb Raider and his wife corrected him that Tomb Raider was actually at Universal....

I thought gold would have been pretty cool for the 50th and obviously down the road repaint it back to green whenever the gold got worn out. However, the repaint of green was fine too. Just glad to see them giving some of the older rides some attention with new paint. The Racer was definitely my favorite one they repainted for the anniversary.