bkroz

Well I'm sure Mr. Kinzel would be more than happy to get only a season pass (and a nice $20,000,000 farewell) for his time. After all, he's just an operations guy!

Cedar Flags? Try Six Fairs (or, twenty-six, as it were)... Much more appropriate considering our current CEO's view of his parks as "dressed up carnivals."

There are days when one would swear that the big man really is...

$570 million? Dave & Busters? Maybe I'm thinking of this incorrectly but... isn't that nearly half the price of the (overpriced) Paramount Parks? ... For an adults Chuck E. Cheese? I'm sure they're lucrative and all but... Oh the things that can be bought with nearly $600 million dollars! (thinking to myself - that's nearly 30 Tomb Raider: The Rides in my backyard. *faint*)

But the thing is, those who are interested (us) do not represent the typical guest. We are enthusiasts, there's no way around it, and it would be difficult to convince anyone at the park that what we feel is the same as what a typical guest feels. We can go on and on and on about the Tower Gardens, but the fact of the matter is most daily visitors probably don't see it and think "lost potential." It seems to me that if we suggest covering up the paint cans and garage doors in The Crypt (even with simple camouflage netting, as is present in the antechamber), they'll say "Of course! That's so simple, and it would make a huge difference!" But... At what point does someone (no offense) get off their butt and actually do it? That's the kicker. It's cheap, it's easy, it's fast, but someone actually has to act. That's no always easy. However, I do agree that that's the direction this group should take - suggestions and optimistic input. The problem therein is, how is that any different than asking rhetorical 5@5 questions (which we all do to try to get a point across) or starting a thread on the park's discussion board? That's something to tackle. Perhaps if this were considered a "Live 5@5" where we were able to ask questions, suggest things, and get honest input, that would be for the best. Help out where we can, spread the word, and provide advice. I think that, if we were face-to-face, the questions would be polite and the answers would be realistic and sincere - those are two things that are sorely missing from the internet form of question asking.

Shapiro stays, Snyder out. http://www.telegram.com/article/20100502/NEWS/5020635/1002/BUSINESS

One could argue that the perfect ride would be one with Boo Blaster's incredible effects and storyline (a malevolent spirit who's taken over a manor-house and won't leave) mixed with Scooby Doo and the gang trying to get him out. There's kinks that would have to be worked out and I'm not sure how concisely everything would meld together, but it would be incredible! I love the drama and the "realism" of Boo Blasters. When you pass through the projection and Boocifer says "You want to drive me from my home, Boo Blasters?! Go ahead - TRY." That's obviously much more dramatic and story-heavy than anything Scooby Doo related. And the new guy getting chased by the skeletons? You can hear him saying "No please! Please stop!" He's actually frightened, and pleading. There's no comedy about it. But if the Scooby characters were placed here and there throughout, there would be a brand recognition and we'd still have Scooby Doo, pretty much the only constant since opening day except for The Racer... It's a tough call. On one hand, a dramatic realistic story about an evil ghost. On the other, a comedic whodunnit, cartoony unmask-the-villain caper. Obviously both have similarities and differences (maybe 10 year old Scooby will be remembered more fondly than 10 year old Boo Blasters once the effects start to go) so I suppose we'll see. It's too bad that the two stories don't really allow for a mixing of the best of both worlds.

In a perfect world (well, mine anyways) The Racer would undergo an enormous rehab, be butter smooth, be strikingly white with red handrails, have one side run backwards and always race. Keep dreaming, right?

Let's hope! Be comforted by the fact that, in 5@5 a few days ago, we were assured that there will be a larger emphasis on racing this year. Makes sense, considering it's a racing coaster. I have never seen Dueling Dragons not duel. Not once. When one train is ready, they send it out of the station, and the chain just goes slowly until the other catches up. Of course, that's a much more complicated and advanced system. In that same 5@5 answer, they said that they don't often race because "when one train is ready, why make it wait for the other train?" But the fact of the matter is, I don't think most people would mind waiting an extra 30 seconds for the other train to be ready to launch if it means they could race. That's sort of the whole point... Sort of.

I don't know how successful it will be... Did they have a Breakfast with the Nick Characters? The only thing I've heard from people who have done it is that it's nice for what it is, but didn't take a hint from Disney... At least, not the right hint. Instead of characters coming to the table, you just have a breakfast buffet with someone in a Charlie Brown suit standing up at the front of the room and you can take your kids up to have pictures taken. It seems to take out the fun for the kids of having their favorite characters walk up and want to interact with them directly. Instead, it's essentially the same thing as seeing the character out roaming the park - but you also get breakfast. Maybe kids don't care or notice the difference in "interaction quality", but I feel like they would, and I think parents paying $50 for a family of four probably do.

I tend to rant, and I would shudder to think what my post count would be if all of my long, drawn-out posts were split into more concise, short posts (as they probably should be). Haha!

Delirium, I agree with much of what you say. But we're talking about far different groups (both of which are well-represented in the park). There are those who have been visiting the park regularly (not enthusiastically, but still regularly) who, of course, recall decades of fun on The Beast. However, there are also those who are "new" visitors (myself included) who are just beginning to visit with their family. Sure they may have occasional memories from childhood, etc. but these are young couples with young children, teenagers who haven't been to the park more than a dozen times their whole life, and many other specific groups - these people call our suspended coaster Top Gun by habit, not by a vendetta against Cedar Fair's horrible names (as some of us do). They don't really recall a time before Paramount, and don't care who owns the park and who doesn't. The people who I'm talking about don't notice little details or names the way we do - they know The Racer is forwards for whatever reason, Son of Beast has no loop for whatever reason, and Tomb Raider is now The Crypt for whatever reason, if they even know that much. These are the kinds of people who don't care (notice I said "don't care", not "don't know") the difference between Son of Beast and The Beast. They probably don't really know the "tallest" "fastest" longest" titles attributed here and there. They just ride the rides. Then they like them, or dislike them, or somewhere in between, and go about their business. They don't google "Son of Beast" beforehand, so they don't know the stigma. They just ride the ride and, love it or hate it, go on with their day. We all have friends of friends of friends who (coincidentally, I'm sure) all share the opinion of their closest enthusiast-friend, so none of that can be submitted as evidence, of course... And contrary to your belief, shark, I do not like Son of Beast. I've ridden it. I've expressed my disinterest in riding it again. My friend have ridden it. I've sat by myself waiting while they rode. Some loved it. Some liked it. None hated it. Take that for what it's worth (very little). It's just, my one pet peeve is people who suggest "worlds biggest bonfire lololololololz zomg" as you do. It's not realistic, it's not funny, it's not clever (anymore), and it's useless to waste everyone's time saying it. If the ride were to never open again, I would not shed a tear. But, I think it has potential. Am I an optimist? Obviously. Is that a bad thing? I never experienced Son of Beast without a wait, even at its 'worst' times post-2007. I can only imagine how popular it would be if it were reworked into a truly A+ ride. It would take a lot of time and money. The best choice will be made, based on many factors. That "best choice" may use one piece of wood from Son of Beast (even to build a new trashcan in line for a new B&M Invert) or it may use 90% of the original structure. I do not know.

^ You can change the thread title by clicking "Edit" on your first post and then selecting "Use Full Editor" from the quick edit box. I, for one, would be happy to write up some new ride descriptions for the site... I know everyone's busy, but I think most of us will do whatever we can to help out! It can't take too long to change the 'New for 2007" page to "New for 2010" and link it to a Planet Snoopy thing... If the notion that "Well it doesn't need updated because no one actually uses it" is that prevalent, then nothing will get done, and why do we even have a site?... haha! And I would like to think that some people do use it! I mean, none of us use the official Kings Island site, but it was awesome to see it overhauled and now we're learning things and seeing new images and enjoying a new layout... And if the KIC site was overhauled, perhaps first-time visitors WOULD use it to plan out their day! Reviews of restaurants, ride ratings, history, etc. I know we already have a lot of that, but it's just not as accessible as it could be.

Do you really think that an everyday family in Georgia, even one who regularly visits Six Flags Over Georgia, has heard of Kings Island? Even families who frequent Hersheypark (only one state away) certainly aren't familiar with Kings Island. As fans of the park, we'd like to think otherwise, but that's just not the case. Kings Island doesn't broadcast commercials in Pennsylvania. They don't put up billboards there. There's no reason - that's not their market. I personally live an hour outside Cleveland, four hours from Kings Island. My area was mainly served by Six Flags & SeaWorld (later, Geauga Lake). Many of my friends had never heard of Kings Island before I introduced them, and those who had had only heard "It's a kiddie park." I kid you not. So as much as we'd like to believe that Kings Island is well-known. It's just not. Not to everyday, regular families who don't have an enthusiast parent / child / friend. As for your other point, neither Son of Beast, The Beast, Diamondback, or Flight of Fear is aimed at "families of four." Nothing they could do to Son of Beast would make it accessible to two parents and their children under 12. It just wouldn't. That is precisely the reason that the park is "Ride on!" and "The fun and only." Because they're marketing to far different groups with far different agendas. Son of Beast is not closed because "they care about the families of 4 not riding it." And lastly, the notion that "one less ride that they want to ride is one less reason to return to the park in the future" has little to nothing to do with Son of Beast. No one will boycott Kings Island for having a ride that they're not particularly interested in riding. If they don't want to ride it, they won't. They won't say "My 8 and 10 year old daughters have no interest in riding that huge wooden roller coaster. But since it's not open (and even if it was I bet it would be an abomination and I bet its the lowest rated roller coaster according to a poll of enthusiasts), I am not coming back!" There are, however, people who are upset that it's closed. No one would be upset if it was open - they'd just not ride it if they're not interested.

Media attention? Perhaps for those who watch Top 10 Megastructures and Top 10 Roller Coasters on Travel Channel often enough that they care... And chances are, if you're watching Top Ten Roller Coasters, you're already well aware of most of them. This may be blasphemy, but The Beast is not famous. Among the roller coaster community? In southern Ohio and Kentucky? Sure! But travel to Kennywood? Hersheypark? Kings Dominion? Six Flags Great Adventure? You'd be lucky if someone had heard of Kings Island, much less The Beast. I have, on many occasions, had to explain to folks in line at Cedar Point what and where Kings Island is... Do you think those people would believe that The Beast gets 'media attention?' It may be on Travel Channel from time to time, it may be well-known among roller coaster enthusiasts, but The Beast holds no more importance to people in say, Georgia, than any Georgian wooden roller coaster holds for us as Ohioans. So a person does not have to be 'dumb' to confuse The Beast and Son of Beast any more than they would be 'dumb' to confuse (hypothetical) rides called Thunder Road and Alley of Thunder. Similar names, similar rides, same park, same idea... Are they different? Of course. Do most people know they're different? Yes. But my argument is that many don't know (and really, don't care) which is which. Despite how we think of it, people come to Kings Island and ride rides, they do not dwell on what the ride is named, "Son of" relations, "bad layouts" and stigma. Families with young kids don't ride Son of Beast. Elderly people don't ride Son of Beast. Teenagers ride Son of Beast - and I really can't imagine teenagers (except the kind who are on this site) stopping by Guest Relations to complain about Son of Beast. My point has been and will remain that if Son of Beast opened tomorrow, the line would be full, and a train wouldn't dispatch with an empty seat. And consider that if it did open tomorrow, half of its biggest critics on this site would be among those in line, knowing that they would hate it, if only so they could come back here and complain... The line would be full of willing & excited teens. Perhaps there wouldn't be as many middle-aged adults in line, but perhaps there never should've been.

Exactly. So it's hardly anyone's place to say "Son of Beast is a failure, and everyone hates it." Because many people like, and even love it. Is it because of a higher pain tolerance? Perhaps for some. And also consider... As a whole, if any group were to complain more than another, would it be the enthusiasts, or the everyday park goers? No offense, but some of the enthusiasts here just walk around with a scowl on their face - reminds me of Dracula, always walking around, wringing their hands, looking for something to be unpleasant... Many new age park-goers don't know the difference between The Beast and Son of Beast, and you can't even deny that. All of us have seen many a family point at the Son of Beast and go "Look how big The Beast is!" and vice versa). So consider, do they really know one as being "unbelievably painful, the worst thing in the world, the biggest failure that's ever happened, absolutely an abomination" and the other as a "fantastic, classic, record-breaking ride that enlightens all those who grace its tracks"? Probably not.. They're both the "big wooden coasters", and if you asked, 70% of those who ride both probably wouldn't be able to tell you if there was a difference between The Beast's final helix and Son of Beast's rosebowl (if they even recalled them being two seperate rides). To the casual rider, they probably notice no difference, except the lack-of-tunnel.

YESTERDAY: TWO DAYS AGO: Not that I called it, but...... TODAY:

That's the worst... Even if it's just a "station wait" and there are four people in front of you, you're talking at least ten minutes until you can even get into the train. If there are eight people in front of you, it's more like twenty five minutes... That really adds up fast.

SPOILERS The scene, for those who don't know, is really quite simple - you pass through the great special effect everyone has been talking about, which is a fog screen projected with Boocifer's face. He says "So, you want to drive me from my home, Boo Blasters? Go ahead - TRY" and his eyes catch on fire. Your car passes right through the projection as he catches on fire - it's very cool. Then, you enter a dark corridor filled on each side by skeletons that are posed to look like they're leaping towards the car - some move mildly back and forth. Strobe lights flash, only illuminating them every few seconds so it gives the illusion of movement. Yes, their eyes are glowing red, and they all have targets. Perhaps worse than the actual image of them is that they screech... Like, hardcore scream. No pre-recorded scary sound; they actually shriek at the top of their lungs and it's actually startling. The best "fix" (if that is indeed what they're trying to do) is probably to turn down the volume of the screams and to turn off the strobe lights. In between strobe flashes, the skeletons are mildly illuminated by black light. It's just the illusion of their movement and the loud screaming that's scaring people, and I can see why - it is far more intense than anything I recall on Phantom Theater, and I would definitely cry afterwards if I were a kid. You can get the basic idea of the scene by watching of Ghost Blasters at Elitch Gardens, but ours is somewhat different.. It's at the 1:00 mark. I would be upset if they changed it, but I suppose if they're getting complaints, I'd understand. Again I must stress, just leaving that whole hallway pitch black does not count as changing it. Altering the lighting and audio is alright. Simply leaving it dark is not.

Too scary? It is really is quite scary... The screeching especially... I hope that's not the reason. I really, really hope not. But why would all of the lights and targets and props and sounds all happen to go out at once in that particular area? Hopefully it's something about trying to improve the scene and not just turning it off. I'll be very upset.

To me, it was running a LOT smoother. And there never an intention to move it to another park, right? Just speculation that maybe it would be MTV themed... But why would they move it? It would be a lot of work to get it all out of the building / get the building down.

Absolutely. And just to sort of back that up (this is a coincidence, because I found this today, but it works so well), take a look at this of Kings Dominion put together by Coaster Fusion. Then, pay careful attention just after 1:10... Yes, Backlot Stunt Coaster has a splashdown at Kings Dominion. But the plot thickens - their splashdown fountains were removed completely last year, as ours were. That means that, essentially, they re-added the splashdown. They didn't just flip a switch or anything; they physically re-attached the apparatus.Sure, it only "splashes down" on one side, but it's the only side that's really visible anyway... Will ours be returned? I doubt it. Not only because, as you mentioned, these themeing constraints are clearly not coming from on-high, but from the individual park management. The other reason? Why add a fake splashdown when there's a real one 100 yards away? Of course, I would KILL to see the splashdown return, even in half-form like Kings Dominions... But for those two reasons, I don't expect it. So what it comes down to is one thing we've just deduced, and one thing we've known for a while: the park's are individually making these theme cuts (even by omission), and Kings Dominion is just plain better themed than Kings Island in just about every way.

I'm certainly lot. I'm just letting people know that, for all those saying this isn't possible and it's not going to work and we're dreaming, I certainly don't plan to let you "live it down" when this project does get off the ground and suddenly all the nay-sayers become its biggest fan. And anything you do with a park is like bargaining. If someone who says "we're not gonna be able to do A, B, and C so let's just maybe give D a try and that's it" decides to "pick up the ball," nothing will get done. You have to talk to the park, discuss things, submit ideas, run through proposals, and work at it. If you come into it going "Yeah we pretty much can't do anything so can I get some ERT?" then nothing will happen. Yes there's red tape, yes some things might be tedious... My point is, I would be willing to go through that if it means making the park a little nicer...

And the thing is, with people saying stuff like that I have absolutely zero interest in calling the park, setting up a meeting, discussing things with park representatives, and trying to work something out, taking up my time and the park's time... Especially because the people who have been less-than-enthusiastic would probably then try to sign up for it once it got off the ground!! So you're right, it probably won't go anywhere. The negativity around this is somewhat disheartening for myself as the person who was going to help plan it... If you're not in, then don't be in. No reason to drag down those who are enthusiastic?

Absolutely. The notion that the look of the train "has nothing to do with the ride" is true. It's true of fog. It's true of synchronized soundtracks. It's true of water effects. It's true of pre-shows. It's true of lighting. But what I love Kings Island for isn't the individual rides, but the individual experiences. There's no denying that Tomb Raider was an experience. Italian Job was an experience. Even Drop Zone, to an extent, was an experience - the speil about being filmed for a movie stunt, the target painted on the queue house, the "flames" on the torches. It's the experience that's so damaged when the special effects and little details are lost. Again, look at Disney, or Universal - parks that are literally built on "little details." The "unnecessaries" are what sets Disney and Universal apart. Love Paramount or hate them, you must admit that they always added "unnecessaries" that added to the experience. For the difference between a ride with "unnecessaries" and one without, see Tomb Raider -> The Crypt. See Italian Job -> Backlot Stunt Coaster. Truth be told, if you had to chose one, nearly all of us would chose the former every single time. I have said, and will continue to say, that I would take the on-its-last-leg Tomb Raider over our current Crypt any day of the week. Because on that ride, there was pulse-pounding music, the goddess' eyes lit up, the wall panels immersed you in the "temple," the water fountains worked. Even once the lasers and effect lights had burned out, there was still a feeling of intention. It was still clear that this ride was unique and different. Today, the ride is literally a top spin in a box. There's no attempt and no intention (not even a feeble one) to disguise that.