bkroz

Which I have... I Love Kings Island, but there down 4 Gold passes this year because we didnt renew. That may be just a splash in the Pan, but the more people they Tick off, the more they might wanna do something to change... But, did you visit? Once? Twice? If so, they got the same amount of money out of you, didn't they? Those with money get more. That is life. Is it right? I can't say. But that IS capitalism. That's the whole point. Pursuit of profit is the basis of our economic system. People pay upwards of $200 for a pair of shoes that costs $2.00 to make. No one says thats wrong. In fact, we might think, "good for them!" If people are willing to pay x amount of money for a product or service, why would the seller charge less than x? People with no money don't go to Kings Island at all. People will more money than that visit once a year. People with more than that might buy a pass. People with still more may buy the Fast Lane tickets. People with more than that may choose to take their business to Disneyland instead. People with still more money may take a family vacation to France or England. And is it wrong for those with the means to visit Disneyland instead of Kings Island to do so? Absolutely not. If you want to get the most of your car, you need to pay extra for a sound system, automatic doors, hands-free starter, etc, and if you have the means to get your car "fully loaded," is that wrong? Is it wrong of you to do it? Wrong of the car manufacturer to offer it? Was it wrong of me to visit Discovery Cove when so many people can't? I don't think so... I had the extra money to pay for that upcharge experience, so I did. It was their right to charge what they saw fit, and mine to choose if I was willing and able to pay it. I was. The idea of the pursuit of profit is that the market regulates itself. If people don't pay $200.00 for the shoes (or $50.00 for the Fast Lane pass), then it won't be that expensive for long... And indeed, we saw that as Kings Island and Cedar Fair adjusted the price weekly to find the balance of what people will pay for. I say again that I think the major difference here is that so many of us think of Kings Island as a beautiful, loving, emotional place in our lives and feel personally offended by the reminder that it is a business. "We like Son of Beast! Why not fix it?!" It's not that simple, though. They want and need money, and while we may question their methods, it obviously works or they wouldn't do it.

Agreed. I don't think anyone could be fooled into thinking that The Crypt will still be there in five years, much less ten or twenty. A shame, especially, since it was literally the park's blockbuster ride less than a decade ago... How quickly things can change...

Again, it's unfortunately far more complicated than that. After the theming was lost due to the park's sale from Paramount, the ride was reprogrammed in hopes that much, much, much increased thrill would compensate for the lost themeing. For many people, it did. But observationally, it appears that the ride was far too large to perform the acrobatic, thrilling cycle that was employed for about a season. Popular opinion is that the ride (the only GIANT top spin on earth among a hundred regular sized ones) was so worn out and mechanically stressed by the intense and thrilling program that it was closed more than it was open, in need of constant repair and part replacement. Observationally, it seems the ride's current, nearly-lifeless 2-flip cycle is about all that it can do after being subjected to such an active cycle that it wasn't meant to have for so long. Compound that with HUSS's (the ride's manufacturers) already dismal reliability (many of their rides are prone to frequent breakdowns, and Dollywood is actually seeking legal action after years and years of battling to keep their HUSS Topple Tower working) and the fact that the ride operated in a humid, moist enviornment around those lava pits and fog machines for years (which, according to those in-the-know around here, it was not built to withstand) and you have a ride that is very mechanically worn. Given that, even if Cedar Fair were the kind of company to heavily theme a ride, it would be putting lipstick on a pig. Given the negativity around it, wouldn't you assume that if the ride could be more thrilling, it would be? Mechanically, it seems to be reduced to what it is today to balance uptime and thrill. And keep in mind, it operates with 2/3 the capacity it originally did - a choice that many assume was made to make it more aerodynamic and able to perform the 9-flip cycle. Well, it doesn't flip nine times anymore, so if that is the reason that the front row was removed, then it was literally for nothing: now the ride operates on a less thrilling cycle than it ever had on Tomb Raider, and with 66% of its original hourly capacity... Basically, it's a big complex situation that very few know all the ins and outs of (least of all me). I wish it were as easy as restoring the theme. It's not. Best case scenario in my opinion, we'd get a brand new suspended top spin (able to be thrilling) or a brand new Giant Top Spin (which, after all this, I say Kings Island shouldn't have to pay for) with the appropriate brakes, water-proofing, etc. that could return to a more themed, theater-like style. Compared to 9-flip Crypt and 2-flip Crypt, Tomb Raider's 4-flip cycle was a perfect fusion of thrill and theme, and it would satisfy both parties if the ride were able to be like that again... Sigh...

If it's really that inconsequential, why would they bother to change it though? I understand and agree that Gold Passes are the most prevalent by far, but this is a purposeful change, so it has to be for a reason. If you have a regular pass, it will literally be inactive by the first week of September. Even Howl-O-Fest is Gold Pass only...To me, that's a radical departure from previous years. Even if it doesn't make much of a difference in crowd levels, it's a new precedent and a very different operation than we've seen before. If it's company wide, it will make a difference at places like Cedar Point, where it's Platinum or Regular only. Again, I don't think it's a cryptic message or anything. Just interesting.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere and couldn't seem to find the right search terms to arrive at anything, but when purchasing a 2012 regular season pass online, one reads the following: It looks like Halloween Haunt and Howl-O-Fest at Kings Island will be a separately ticketed event in 2012, and that only Gold Passes and Platinum Passes will provide entry for free. Buy a regular season pass and it is worthless come September 4, 2012. Don't get me wrong - I think it's a smart move in crowd control at least. Haunt is so crowded, and just eliminating those with regular passes should thin the crowds out noticeably. I also take it that Soak City is included with the regular pass. If it weren't, we might have a riot on our hands, with regular season pass-holders losing two previously-included attractions... What I think will be interesting is how this news travels. I imagine many families get one gold pass, and regular passes for the rest of the family just to ensure free parking. If that's the case, then father will be allowed to Howl-O-Fest, but mother and children will not... Hmm.

If it's gone next year, I wouldn't be surprised. A unique ride, for certain, and thrilling in a different sense than most of us are used to. I enjoyed every ride on it if only for the chance to again see the goddess and volcano from what was once the best-themed ride in all of Ohio, if not at any seasonal amusement park. That ship has sailed, and I recognize that newcomers can't enjoy the ride that is with the same impression of the ride that was, and thus, as the memories fade, so does my care for it. And inundated with dinosaurs and swings, I won't be around the park much next year, if at all - as luck would have it, my Disneyland Annual Pass cost (I kid you knott) $165.00 to the cent. That pass also affords me hotel discounts, plus you can go from park-to-park without being accused of falsifying your identity, or worse. And there's a flat 10% discounts on all food and merchandise purchases - a far better deal than five buffets when you pay for four and show your validated Subway coupon from purchasing a refillable sipper, or some such nonsense... I have always had an affinity for ancient-adventure themed attractions, but even from day one, Tomb Raider: The Ride has come in second after Indiana Jones Adventure. Now, I have access to a twenty minute, heavily-themed, totally immersive, dark-ride adventure until November 2012, and that is something Kings Island does not offer now, and probably will never offer again. I need a break from the Cedar Fair nonsense. I will certainly return to the parks once in a while, and as of now, would expect to be become a "regular" again in a few years, once I can see some visible changes from the top. As for right now, I'm burnt out. Kings Island and Cedar Fair are not offering much to me that I percieve as new, so I will politely take my business elsewhere until I can crave their... unique style of park operation again. I won't renew my Platinum Pass to see still more dinosaurs, and still more WindSeekers. I just can't. And five years down the road, I imagine Kings Island will be a very different park (for better or worse), and at that point I'll certainly re-examine it and do what I feel is right. GYK, who doesn't know near as much about that ride as he purports to most of the time, but who still knows that A, B, C, and even D are at play here, all in different orders, all causing and not causing each other, and basically making a big mess of a situation.

Half Pint Brawlers is a brand, and the name of a specific troupe of "midgets" who perform a wrestling show. I find it hard to believe that Worlds of Fun ever officially called it "Hard Core Midget Wrestling." I mean, I know that generic names are Cedar Fair's forte, but come on...

And I really wouldn't expect the circus-esque midget wrestling troupe traveling the U.S. to do anything over the top...

It also happened nearly three and a half years ago... Notice the original post was from June 2008. Really dug into the archives to find it, didn't you? EDIT: Annnndddd then I notice the signature... Personal injury lawyer.

I went last Sunday when it was beautiful out. They weren't kidding when they said the longest wait was Surf Dog. Firehawk was a walk on. If that doesn't say it all, I don't know what could. Fridays and Saturdays in October are probably the busiest days of the entire season, so don't necessary think that the Fast Lane volumes you encountered there are typical of a normal day at the park. Also, don't assume you'll see the same number of Fast Lane passes sold on those days next year.

Why are you just so eternally bitter and unhappy and negative? I just don't get it... Everyone is scared by different things, just like everyone enjoys different things. Is that wrong? Does not finding chainsaws scary make you superior in some way? And is your superiority so great that you just needed to share your bravery, and now need to berate anyone who opposes your view? I just don't understand why it's worth bringing up how "cliche" you think it is, much less to be unkind when others call you out on being so negative. You immediately go into crazy defensive testosterone mode. It's just... pointless?

My pleasure.

There's an answer or two.

Interesting, especially since I sent an email to a few nearby parks, saying that if there was a way for me to get an all parks + all parking pass, I would seriously consider replacing my Cedar Fair Platinum Pass with the Six Flags equivalent next year. All the responses I received thanked me for my opinion and mentioned that they'd be forwarded to the correct departments instead of telling me that it did indeed exist? Now I'm confused.

I believe the figure he's referring to is not the construction cost necessary to remove them. It's the added wear and tear per year. In other words, without those trim brakes, an additional $1,000,000 worth of work would need to be done each year. Keeping the trim brakes prevents $1,000,000 worth of damage per year, in a sense, according to his source.

^ Six Flags has a "parking at all parks" pass? I haven't seen one, and I'm interested in one! Can you point out where to find it?

Ugh, I know, right? Chainsaw guys at Halloween festivals are so cliche. Unlike clowns, haunted hospitals with deadly contagions, slaughterhouses, pirates, werewolves......

If Kings Island and Cedar Fair didn't make money the way they did things, then they wouldn't do them that way for long, would they? If $69.99 gold passes sold through October 31st of the year prior to their activation didn't end up helping them in the long run, it wouldn't be done year after year. It's not right or wrong. It's a system of costs and benefits, and apparently Cedar Fair has decided that the benefits of this system outweigh the costs.

Your right. That is Kings Island's marketing plan. I don't think anyone at Kings Island would deny that the ticket price is very, very cheap - way cheaper than the experience you get inside the park actually warrants. They could charge much more. $70.00 for unlimited visits through the entire summer? It's dirt cheap. But once you're in (or, if you only get a daily ticket or 'silver' pass) you have to pay for parking, Dinosaurs, a 3-D movie, bungee jumping, etc. and food prices are relatively high. Other parks have a purposefully different system - pay a high gate price (see, Dollywood, Holiday World, Magic Kingdom, etc) and once you're in, you're in. Pretty much everything is included (sometimes including parking, drinks, Fast Pass, and / or extra exhibits). There's benefits and drawbacks to each system. As we've heard, the perceived benefit to the Kings Island system is that it appears very reasonable to travelers. $35 for a daily ticket? Sign me up! But, "they gotta eat." "They gotta park." "They gotta buy a ride photo." The idea is, once you've hooked them, you can wring out their pockets. The higher gate-price system turns some people off right away. Holiday World is reasonably expensive for a park its size compared to Kings Island, and that immediately alienates certain clientele. But after parking and drinks, they're probably about the same... It's all marketing in a sense, and which promotes the park best.

I think the issue is handing your pass off to someone else, and using a handstamp to reenter yourself. For example, I leave the park and get my hand stamped, then hand my season pass over to my brother. If conditions are right, we're both in without missing a beat. And you know people would (and probably have) tried it! Until (or if, knowing old Cedar Fair) the parks get finger print scanners, I imagine we'll see the handstamp rule remain. EDIT: Nevermind, I think I misunderstood your comment now that I'm re-reading it... I still don't understand it, but I think I misunderstood it to begin with haha.

^^ Right, tranquilizers don't work the way movies would have us believe, like crazy, immediate knockout potion. Plus, imagine if your pet dog or your child couldn't go outside for fear that a literal lion might pounce on it. Obviously I believe maintaining as many of the animals' lives as possible is the best scenario, but it's naive to think it works that easily. The fact that schools are closed should be a message in and of itself - it isn't safe to be outside. Sure it's a very Jumanji situation, but think of how serious this is to the people involved. A nightmare.

That's the whole point of the Fast Lane... Not everyone can simply schedule a trip on a less busy day. Families with parents who work during the week can't simply coordinate a day off to go spend money at the park, and wouldn't get their moneys worth out of season passes. So they visit one time each year. If that one visit falls on a Saturday, then they may choose to pay an extra $80 - $100, one-time expenditure, to make the most of their day just like you did. Don't get me wrong, the park is out to make money first and foremost. But as you witnessed, Fast Lane and Fright Lane are also valuable commodities for people with disposable income who want to make the most of their limited time at the park. Somehow we've vilified it to the extent that it feels like a dirty, oligarchical tool used only to raise certain people above others, but it's not. It is a service - a commodity - offered to improve the daily experience for those who wish to spend the extra money. Someone with x amount of money goes to Kings Island for a getaway, someone with y amount goes to Disneyland. If you have the extra money, you get the extra service. It's not a caliber thing, or a class war. It's just a different experience for those who desire it, as you have witnessed. Because it's our "home park," I think we view things a lot differently. I would imagine that many people who are "fundamentally against Fast Lane" would happily take advantage of Universal Express or Quick Queue passes if they had only one day at Islands of Adventure or Busch Gardens Tampa, faced with hour long lines for major rides.

Something I didn't expect from this crowd!

So in their eyes, it's the themeing that will make the difference. Hey, I'm all for theme. Ya'll know that. But that's not what draws the typical visitor, I don't think. How well did Hard Rock Park go over after relying on a brand and a music theme to keep it afloat, even near a marketable vacation destination? A whole other can of worms, perhaps, but this proposal sounds like a nice mix of Hard Rock Park and Kentucky Kingdom... (that's not a compliment). My true opinion is that true, marketable, regional theme park destinations cannot be built from scratch today without the backing of a corporate brand or an experienced operator. The cost to build a park like Kings Island from scratch would be astronomical. Thankfully, the cost of its construction to this point has been paid for by a handful of owners. I think that Kings Island 1972 is at least a reachable goal for a start-up park - that is, a couple of coasters at most. The question is, would a park of that caliber pull its own weight in today's world? We look at the half-dozen coasters at Freestyle Music Park and think, "Gee, that's not many at all.." So could 1972 Kings Island survive if it were built today?

Yeah, there are at least half a dozen castles, four Tower of Terrors, six Space Mountains, four Splash Mountains, seven Dumbos... And two Eiffel Towers, five Action Theaters, two Flight of Fears, three Italian Jobs, two Crypts...