silver2005

But CP never said anything similar to Mantis 'reaching the end of its service life' in regards to its transformation into Rougarou. KI has also done more recent interviews stating rides like Vortex lasting only 25 years alluding to that premise.

Here's my running theory on the timing of The Vortex removal announcement. We haven't really seen a big Arrow looping coaster go down due to pure fatigue yet. Yes, some have been torn down already, but realistically, none of those were at the end of their lifespans. Examples- Shockwave @ Six Flags Great America- Six Flags originally wanted to put Superman: Ultimate Flight in Whizzer's spot, and due to the Save Whizzer campaign, they went with Shockwave's removal instead. Great American Scream Machine @ Six Flags Great Adventure- Shortly after Six Flags left Kentucky Kingdom, they took Chang to be relocated to Great Adventure, and GASM had dwindling ridership at the time which made that an easy decision. Steel Phantom @ Kennywood- Most people know of that one- it was made too big and fast for what it was, then Morgan came in and transformed it into one of the best steel coasters anywhere. I'm not familiar with Orient Express' reason for removal from Worlds of Fun. So with that, given Vortex's age, it is really the first one to make it to this stage and the oldest of the bigger Arrow looping coasters left (Anaconda and Viper were built after Vortex). Now, given the late season timing, I'm guessing something came up that Kings Island took note of as being a sign of that fatigue, enough to out-price its ROI, and something I imagine S&S has studied in taking up the Arrow parts supply. I'm sure all designers keep track of how their rides age. It probably just so happens it was noticed in the middle of their Orion hype campaign, thus, it was announced a bit after Orion as the best way the park had under those circumstances to give it its time.

Yes, storm the one Porta Potty they have there. Hoist it into the park so we can finally have our true X-Base restroom.

Good news- I think I now see restrooms in X-Base. Bad news- They're only temporary and not available for use by guests.

Good is in quotes because no one is happy about about any removal in general, but it appears people would have liked a better means of communication from the park on the removal announcement. Not implying it being fine, as stated in another post in this thread, I don't like it being removed as well. It was intended to be asked to see where people are coming from with their criticisms of how the park handled it. EDIT: I edited the original post to hopefully get across what I was aiming for.

So what would a better Vortex removal announcement look like to those of you not satisfied with it (including the context given that Firehawk was just demolished and Orion's announcement)? EDIT: Edited to hopefully reword it better to not seem like it was a good announcement per the conversation below.

I think its safe to say that most people guessing on how GP reacts to the ride only really have anecdotal evidence. Unless this info is coming from a dedicated sociologist, most people are going to take these estimated GP reactions with a grain of salt.

I think its just sheer coincidence that both Firehawk and Vortex bit the dust at nearly the same time. The former was a maintenance nightmare, even in the eyes of the GP, and anyone familiar with Arrow coaster longevity kind of sensed Vortex's end in the near future (not as near as most expected for sure).

^That's one of the best enthusiast inside jokes ever. Kudos.

The lifespan of Tennessee Tornado and X2 will also be interesting to check in on. X2 is probably on the shorter end, but aside from the inversions, a lot of Tornado's track and structure are close to the ground or underground along with improved engineering being not of the Ron Toomer era.

My thoughts have nothing to do with the popularity. I'm talking more on the track and structure. I'm convinced that's why Vortex is leaving.

This may be possibly chalked up to generic park responses, but the thing I keep hearing on the media reports is the park stated that Vortex lasted longer than its life expectancy. If that part is consistent throughout the industry, I'd be wanting to get last rides on the bigger Arrows soon (Anaconda, Magnum, Viper) as they aren't too much younger than Vortex.

As said in a previous post, my first Vortex ride was shortly accompanied by my first Beast night ride. It was really tough building the courage to finally do both after a while, but it was so cool to have that in combination. My dad used to work at P&G, so we used to always go during the weekend they bought out the park. If you've ever been that weekend, you know its walk on city. Even Firehawk in the first row was a walk on that day. Back when Paramount still owned the park and allowed re-rides if no one was waiting in your row, I got 6 straight Vortex rides without leaving my seat in row 6-2. I really liked to ride it early in the morning or at dusk when it was cooler, especially in the front row. The breeze coming off the nose feels great. Of course, riding it near the back is great for one of the greatest first drops ever. The lift provides one of the better views of the park.

^Made by KIC's very own @Thrill_Biscuit

I'm on the RMC train for a good Vortex replacement. Doesn't matter which model. I also hope they reuse the station if its something that can fit in it.

I hate to see this go. It was my first looping coaster, and with how iconic it looks in the back of Coney Mall, its going to be hard accepting its replacement, even if its a good one. Even better, the night I first rode Vortex I also got my first Beast night ride, and with how amazing that was, its definitely a soft spot for my life as an enthusiast. To me, its as much apart of Kings Island as the Eiffel Tower, blue ice cream, The Beast, and all the staple attractions and structures in the park. I also remember my early days going to the park trying to see it right after seeing the Eiffel Tower when it was still the tallest coaster in the park. And I certainly still enjoy riding it despite its flaws.

To me, there's too much against Invertigo including the red flag of now using a used train that has a bit of mileage for it not to be a possibility. Its also out of the way, a model that I imagine Vekoma doesn't do a lot of support for anymore considering its one of only 3 operating, and from what I see each visit, dwindling ridership.

GCI has stated that they can outfit any wooden coaster with Millennium Flyers. https://www.greatcoasters.com/?p=flyers

The colors on Orion look better as the real deal over the renderings. Its a nice blue.

I don't feel or hear any resemblance of a rattle on Banshee.

In looking at the webcams, I do have one slightly less relevant question- what makes so many bugs congregate on top of the Eiffel Tower? They're swarming the Orion cam.

Now that I think about it, that might be the spot where one of the Clifford cranes will sit, they might need to level it out so it has a decent spot to set up its foundation. They probably will do that for several spots so multiple cranes can work in tandem.

Towards the upper right of the large storage building with the big garage door, I've been seeing a bulldozer and excavator dig furiously in one spot for a few days. I wonder if they screwed up a footer or something. It looks like its about at the spot where the final hill before the brakes will be.

I will stop posting my bits in the decoding topic and post what I need to here. I think there is a lot of mistreatment of members on the forum in that thread. People keep throwing around descriptions that people are 'negative', even when bringing up simple criticisms. Just because we cover a 'fun' topic such as amusement parks doesn't omit the site from this kind of stuff happening. Throwing around a blanket statement that people are being 'negative' with no context is hurtful. Its dismissive of those who are bringing up criticisms and problems they see and the people throwing it around are just brushing it aside as if just labeling people as 'negative' is in and of itself a solution. If you can't take the time to say why people are being overly negative (no matter how obvious it may seem to you) or get reduced to smearing others, then you either don't have an argument, you are just being lazy in assuming people understand, or simply don't care. Quit pretending that everything is meant to be positive (even somewhere as quaint as an amusement park fan site) when there is stuff happening that requires more nuance to deal with. Its an incredibly naive way to deal with people who are bringing up subjects within a topic that aren't always in the flow of what most members are veering towards. Every topic can have that happen, even ones people think are supposed to be positive. All of that is ruined if we aren't treating each other well. Not everything is black and white, or in this case, positive and negative. There's a grey area people aren't addressing. Positivity can't be forced. Criticism can be used in a positive way to improve something as well (just ask any musician including yours truly). Its very short sighted to see a post you may not like and give a knee jerk reaction and start accusing people of things (admittedly, I tend to do that, too, but at least I'm acknowledging it and make that better). Emotions are hard to convey over the internet which is why context is important. Also of note is the issue of gaslighting, and I'll use my recent spat as an example. The original poster accused me of saying there wasn't any info on the ride name trademarks, even though he quoted me word for word where I said nothing of the sort, nor have I ever said or eluded to that kind of suggestion. That's taking my words out of context and misrepresenting me of what I actually said. That kind of talk is damaging to people. It makes people second guess themselves into thinking that they didn't really say what they know they said, despite obvious evidence they did (which, on an internet forum, is easily fact-check-able). Its just as bad, if not worse, as stating information and not citing a source, IMO, especially because you're hurting someone else in the process. I don't care if you think I'm overreacting. I don't care if you think I'm negative. I'm also very aware of my flaws. I'm just done just taking and seeing this kind of crap go on with no one acknowledging it. I want this site to do as well as the next member, I've made a lot of good friends here and I still enjoy talking about Kings Island, amusement parks, and the like and its something to take my mind off of some more serious matters I have to deal with in everyday life which I have to think about all the time otherwise. But I'm not going to stand for this mistreatment of members and the misuse and misinterpretations of being critical.

I will call people out if I feel mistreated, which that post I quoted did. I am all too familiar with the crappy affects of gaslighting, with myself living with a chronic illness that you can't tell by just looking at me, so I can spot it from a mile away. I have zero tolerance for gaslighting. I don't care how insignificant the topic is.