SonofBaconator

So the original Phantom theater was introduced in 1992, the last year before Paramount took over. With all that in mind, it makes me wonder if the intent was see how it did at KI before replicating it at other parks like Kings, Dominion, Canada‘s Wonderland, etc..which we’ll never really know because ownership changed hands. There are people on here who know more than I do so please feel free to chime in. Also, with all that in mind, I wonder if Six Flags would replicate this concept to other parks to diversify IP.

An S&S SS what not be a bad addition for where sky flyer was, especially considering that they both deliver a similar ride experience

I think animatronic in the sense that their bodies will move- I don’t think there’s many animatronics that have moving faces these days- even most Disney figures have internal projections.

I think if the ride still existed to this day and it never become Scooby Doo or Boo blasters, I like to think that they would’ve switched to internal face projection animatronics l-like what you see at Disney. If you look at some of the later footage of Phantom theater, you will see Maestro’s face wear down around the area from whatever jaw mechanism is making his mouth move- the same can be said for the boiler man

I wonder if the placement of the scenes will be a carbon copy of what they originally were- just with screens- or if they’ll change things up since screens gives them more…”freedom.” I’m defaulting to the former.

I still think the ones on the top left are Houdelini: If you look at the paper, Houdelini has two images in the center where he appears to have two a split pencil mustache- which is a departure from his thicker handlebar mustache. Also where his eyes are positioned consistent with the image if you look closely. Garbonzo’s image seems to make him looking straight ahead where Houdelini seems to be looking elsewhere. Also there is a clearer image on the table in the image below of Garbonzo who has more of a wispy, “hungarian” style:

I’m trying to figure out the bottom three characters to the left of the rabbit. Also, the one to the right of the two Houdelini renderings. I wonder if these are new characters, the members of the audience that you saw during the peppers ghost scene, or something else entirely. The page isn’t laid flat out so it’s hard to make out. I’m sure that more stuff will be revealed later on, but it’s cool to decipher.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/19GSHE4BGK/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Going off this paper^ Two faces far left: Houdelini Smirking face: Stagehand pulling the ropes? Shocked face dead center: Stagehand being hung by his leg? Grinning face- Boiler room? The never seen Mighty Bosco? Smiling face, no teeth- The second Boiler room guy? Garbanzo? (There’s a picture right under it of him but I still think it’s the thinner boiler room guy) Highest in the back- Willard Warbler? The one who’s face you can’t see- unknown- you’d have to really examine the eyebrows. Also note the Viking hats in the back right

Also, one has to remember the markets they’re in: one is between Dallas and Ft Worth and the other is in Atlanta- they’re not going to give up those territories.

Case in point with another park- you have a ride that was closed for the majority of the season, and now that it’s open, it’s being used it to promote the MVP Sale.

Because it’s easier to “silence” a singular person. I don’t really see news reporters coming after the park and asking things that typical fans ask. I’m sure if a news agency reached out to the park, the park would be inclined to make a statement, but that comes at a cost – that news agency might not be invited back to ride announcements or different media day events – at least that’s how I view it.

I agree with you - it feels like amusement parks are moving away from storytelling and spokespeople, and are just posting things like “new ride open, buy your season pass.” The thing is, when a record-breaking coaster or a nostalgic attraction opens, the value is already there. I already want to ride it because of what it is. But when the messaging is just “buy your pass”, it shows where the priorities are - the transaction instead of the experience. For example: “Orion is open, buy your pass now” vs. “Come ride the record-breaking Orion at Kings Island, with a 300-foot drop, over a mile of track, and speeds over 90 mph- you won’t want to miss it! Secure your season pass today at VisitKingsIsland.com.” Both are basically sales pitches, but one tells a story that builds excitement. I know I need a ticket to enter the park - that’s obvious. Storytelling, though, makes me feel like the park is earning my business rather than just demanding it. In the long run, that’s better for customer retention than simply shouting “buy, buy, buy.” I think a lot of companies are just so fast to sell that they have honestly forgotten what they’re selling: entertainment…stories…memories…

Unfortunately, I think this goes deeper than Six Flags…there hasn’t really been much communication from the park in the past on certain items. Years ago with the practice of communication at amusement parks, almost each park had spokesperson where he/she was pretty much the face of the park to the general public. They were the ones that news reporters always talk to whenever there was a new announcement, incident, etc. Heck, a current member on this site could vouch for that much… With everything leading more corporate, I think that that personal touch goes away-which I don’t necessarily agree with. Most companies are more worried about getting information sent out via social media through targeted posts as opposed to literally just having somebody step behind a camera and say the same thing. It takes away the authenticity of things. I know that everybody is glued to their screens and wants information tweeted out as soon as possible, but I think there is still something to be said for verbal communication. It’s a different world out there. As somebody who went to college and studied communication, marketing, and or at a time when social media was still just as big of a part of our everyday lives as it is now, I think that a lot of corporations overlook the value of constant communication- it’s all about getting out content nowadays.

I’ve always assumed this was the endgame when the merger happened, no matter who was in charge. Factually, the Six Flags name was kept for its national recognition and licensing power, while Cedar Fair took the reins on operations - not sure if this is still factually accurate considering current events. Cedar Fair’s parks are mostly in mid-sized regional markets (Sandusky, Cincinnati, Richmond, Kansas City, etc.), while Six Flags gives them anchors in massive metros like New York, LA, Chicago, and Dallas. That combination wasn’t an accident. What we already know for sure is that not every park is safe. Six Flags America is closing after 2025, and California’s Great America is set to close after 2027. Analysts are openly saying the chain might have to sell off 10-12 more parks to cut debt. If a property doesn’t have strategic value - either because of location, attendance, or land value - it’s a target to be sold or shut down. That said, I don’t think this means the chain is going to liquidate every park it wants to part with. Some parks could easily be sold to private equity or to another operator. What’s happening with Six Flags America and California’s Great America won’t necessarily be the standard. If a company like Hershend, SeaWorld/Busch Gardens, or another chain is willing to pony up the cash for a park that doesn’t fit Six Flags’ long-term strategy, I don’t see Six Flags ignoring that offer. My take: I can’t break this down mathematically, but it makes sense that the chain might actually generate more revenue long-term by diverting some of their assets. Fewer parks means they can funnel more capital and attention back into the flagships - the ones pulling 2-3 million+ visitors a year. If I were running it, I’d rather have a leaner chain of higher-quality, higher-attendance parks than a bloated portfolio where a bunch of properties don’t move the needle. It’s the same logic you see with Disney, Universal, or even Busch Gardens/SeaWorld - they don’t need dozens of properties spread across the country to dominate. Sometimes less really is more.

All of which very well could be true-I’m not entirely sure if there’s anything left in there. That building has been around for nearly 25 years and has housed three (now 4) different themes.

I’m not sure how accurate that comment is considering that it became The Crypt in 2008 up until it’s final season in 2011. Cedar Fair had to remove anything related to Paramount.

I’m sure this is a new entrance- but I’m confused as to why not use the current entrance for the building as opposed building a new one- are they anticipating it’s going to be a super long line?

Whenever I ride The Racer and glance to my left, I still picture Firehawk sitting alongside Flight of Fear. Today that area is home to Orion, a giga coaster that undeniably represents progress for the park. Yet Firehawk continues to stand out in my memory, perhaps even more than Vortex, because of the unusual role it played in Kings Island’s coaster lineup. When it opened in 2007, Firehawk was not a brand-new, custom-built attraction like most of Kings Island’s major coasters. It was a relocation from Geauga Lake, where it had operated as X-Flight. Its arrival came at a pivotal moment: Cedar Fair had just acquired Kings Island from Paramount, and Firehawk provided a fresh experience that helped smooth the park’s transition into a new era. In a park known for groundbreaking originals like The Beast, Vortex, Son of Beast, Diamondback, and Orion, Firehawk often felt like the “adopted child.” It wasn’t designed for Kings Island, and its Flying Dutchman model was notorious for capacity issues. Yet it offered something the park lacked at the time - a flying coaster that flipped riders onto their stomachs and sent them soaring headfirst through drops, rolls, and dives. This gave Kings Island a unique draw in the late 2000s and positioned the park competitively within the region. Firehawk also served a practical role. It bought Cedar Fair time to prepare for Diamondback in 2009, which became the company’s first major new build at the park. Even after Diamondback’s debut, Firehawk maintained popularity until its removal in 2018, showing that its appeal endured beyond its initial novelty. The larger question is whether Firehawk deserves to be remembered in the same light as other departed Kings Island coasters such as Vortex, King Cobra, Screamin’ Demon, or Son of Beast. Those rides, for better or worse, were all original to the park and helped define its identity. Firehawk, by contrast, was inherited - but it still managed to leave a lasting impression. So how should Firehawk be viewed in the park’s history? Was it merely a stopgap, a secondhand addition that served its purpose, or did it truly earn a place in Kings Island’s coaster legacy alongside the originals? I’m curious how others rank Firehawk among the park’s lost attractions and whether its impact was greater than its relocated status might suggest.

I asked AI to break it down mathematically and this is what I was told: ”When we estimate the capacity of a roller coaster’s queue, we’re really connecting a few pieces together — some we know, and some we have to assume. The first piece is the ride’s theoretical throughput, which we’ll call RPH (riders per hour). That’s usually given by the ride manufacturer or operations team. Next, we look at the time it takes to walk through the entire queue when every switchback is open, which we’ll call QWT. We don’t actually know the total path length of the queue, but we can figure it out by multiplying QWT by an assumed average walking speed, W. That gives us the queue length, QL = W × QWT. From there, we don’t really know how much space each person will take while standing in line, so we use an estimated spacing value, S, which might be around three feet per guest in a tightly packed switchback. Dividing the total queue length by that spacing gives us the maximum number of people the queue can hold, Qcap = QL ÷ S. Finally, to translate that into a wait time, we divide that capacity by the ride’s throughput and multiply by 60 to put it into minutes: Qtime = (Qcap ÷ RPH) × 60. The parts we don’t know exactly — the true walking speed and the exact spacing per person — are assumptions we have to make, but they let us model the queue’s capacity in a reasonable way.”

I don’t think Xcelerator is going to last forever. With Six Flags already taking down the world’s tallest hydraulic launch coaster in New Jersey, it seems like the writing’s on the wall for Intamin’s hydraulic coasters in general. They’re maintenance-heavy, parts are harder to come by, and Xcelerator was the prototype. If/when Knott’s replaces it, there are some interesting directions they could go. In theory they could go the TT2 route if they wanted to preserve the ride- and add some length and duration with a swing launch. If they were looking to completely demo and rebuild- an S&S air launch could deliver the same burst of speed with far less downtime. Or, Knott’s could even be a test site for something like the S&S Axis coaster, which would give them a real marketing hook. With all this said, I can’t help but wonder if Siren’s Curse would’ve been a better fit for Knott’s than Cedar Point. I know Cedar Point will always get the massive record-breakers, but Siren’s Curse might have made a bigger impact at Knott’s. I think it would have felt different enough from HangTime to stand on its own.

Which honestly gives me hope that Cedar Fair will eventually move away from relying on external IPs in their parks. Cedar Fair’s own history shows why. I was never a fan of the “Intimidator” coasters, because those names won’t last forever. Even on a broader scale when they acquired the Paramount parks in 2006, they had to strip away most of the branding. Even small details like the Mini Cooper theming on Backlot Stunt Coaster had to go. It showed how fragile licensing can be, and how quickly a park’s identity can get lost. That said, IP has its place. In kids’ areas it works, and in seasonal haunted attractions it’s fine too. Haunt mazes and indoor overlays are temporary by nature, so swapping one IP for another is like changing a storefront sign. A Thriftway can become a Kroger overnight, and no one thinks twice about it. Permanent thrill rides, on the other hand, need long-term staying power. Not to be overly critical of Six Flags, but their decades-long reliance on superhero branding has always felt like a shortcut. With so many different versions of characters across movies, TV, and comics, it’s tough to keep the branding consistent. Batman and Superman are universally known, but characters like Green Lantern, The Flash, or Cyborg don’t have the same reach. As a comic book fan, I appreciate them, but it still feels like a narrow, dated strategy rather than something timeless and memorable.

In my opinion, Action Zone should have been completely overhauled either with or shortly after the debut of Banshee. When the record-breaking invert opened in 2014, the park did invest in some welcome changes: the new seating plaza where the water tower once stood, the revival of The Bat, the repaint of Delirium, and even the back patio of Festhaus that allowed guests to watch the action. But much of the area remained untouched. Drop Tower, Xtreme Skyflyer, and Congo Falls stayed exactly the same, with only Invertigo receiving a repaint in 2012. The result was an area that looked half-new and half-forgotten. What always stood out to me was how split Action Zone felt after Banshee’s arrival. One side had modern touches - Banshee dominating the skyline, The Bat tying in nostalgia, and an energized central plaza. The other side was the “old” Action Zone, with Invertigo, Drop Tower, and Congo Falls still carrying their early-2000s extreme-thrills aesthetic. It was almost like two lands stitched together, each telling a different story. Now, with the merger in play, the uncertainty around Action Zone is even greater. Banshee needs a repaint, Skyflyer is gone, Congo Falls feels out of place, and Invertigo seems like it’s living on borrowed time. The Bat still runs well, but its future is uncertain. Then there’s the empty Son of Beast station - once reused for Wolfpack during Haunt - now cleared out and sitting vacant, a reminder of unfinished potential. This is why I’d like to see Action Zone addressed before The Vortex plot. Back in the Paramount era, the park felt unbalanced - Top Gun, Son of Beast, King Cobra, and Drop Tower were all piled into one corner. Today, the lineup is more evenly distributed: Orion anchors Area 72/Coney Mall. Rivertown has Diamondback, Mystic Timbers, and The Beast, and other coasters are scattered more thoughtfully throughout. But Action Zone, which was never part of the original master plan, has gone through so many transformations - from wild animal habitat, to Adventure Village, to Paramount’s extreme-thrills hub, and now to its current patchwork state - that it badly needs a clear, consistent identity moving forward. That lack of focus also makes the area vulnerable. With DC Comics IP so readily available, it would be easy to rebrand the entire section overnight. Drop Tower could become Lex Luthor: Drop of Doom. The Bat could be renamed Batman: The Ride. Banshee could turn into Superman: The Ride. From a marketing perspective, it’s effortless, but it would strip the park of originality. IP can work at Disney or Universal where it’s deeply integrated, but in regional parks it often feels like a shortcut. There is reason for hope, though. Kings Island’s decision to bring back Phantom Theater in place of Boo Blasters shows the chain is willing to lean into creativity and history instead of outside brands. I truly hope I’m wrong about the DC angle, because what Action Zone needs isn’t a quick rebrand - it just needs to be completed.

I feel like 4D Freespin will go where Skyflyer was and will act as an Invertigo “replacement.”

They used to do this back in the day after something was announced. If any of you recall, Banshee had a bunch of its concept art along the fence after the ride was announced in 2013. I cannot speak for post announcement stuff like Mystic Timbers and Orion because I don’t remember- but I do I remember Adventure Port had stuff as well. The park is stepping up their game when it comes to advertising future attractions in general. I was at the park recently and there’s a huge sign for their Dragon’s Layer (or whatever it’s called) Haunt where Blackout once was. It gives you a sense that they are just as excited about what’s to come as the fans are- which reminds me of what they used to do back in the early Cedar Fair days with their additions. Also, I’m sure there’s a marketing strategy behind it too- people are more willing to check out a coming attraction if they have a physical advertisement of it in the park.