TheCandyManCan

So judging by the articles what I'm reading now. A defect can still be plausible. So far we just have bystander and random twitter posts. I take everything with a grain of salt until the official reports come out. Not discrediting anyone, however I'll keep a reserved judgement. If the reports presented are correct then we have a HUGE operational error. If the train stopped and was held on the lift that means the train valleyed and did not get into the next block triggering the PLC to show a cleared block from the lift hill to the brake before the second lift, as the system should be designed to do. This most likely setup the ride and locked all brakes down and stopped the lift. Notice though this could have happened two ways, I haven't been to the park to see how it operates normally, so going off of Youtube I see two ways. 1. Stopped at lift bottom. If you notice, the lift chain isn't set to jog and let the chain dog on the train engage and start climbing. It jogs up when the train is stopped at the base and then engages and hoists the train up the lift hill. I doubt this though as it'd lower the capacity on the ride drastically versus getting to the top once the next block is clear. 2. It stops, engages, and climbs. However when reaching the sensors before lift crest the train is detected by these sensors and has not received a block clear as the first train has valleyed. From here the ride sets up as described and the train is stopped on the lift. Notice this ride does not feature anti rollbacks, but contains eddy current brakes to slowly control the ride if it does end up going down the hill. The chain dog stays coupled to the chain to keep the train in place. Then with the ride setup either way, the ride will not dispatch from the station or allow any train movement other than what is necessary to clear blocks as outlined in the rides operating procedures. Usually this means moving the trains behind the setup block (safety brake, transfer table, etc) and then clearing the blocks. However for my understanding clearing the blocks is NEVER done by ride operations except on a restart or first thing in the morning before trains are moved (when the ride is turned on in the morning, the blocks are automatically setup). So this would mean someone cleared the blocks, the fault, and enabled the lift to continue pulling the train over to drop it into the circuit. Considering it wouldn't know the location of the valleyed train, this would lead the ride to think there is a clear block after the lift, and thus, we have a collision. It sadly looks like MAJOR operational error, which shouldn't have happened to begin with. If this ride was cleared and the train sent, all pressure will be on those who dispatched and enabled movement of the train. The safety system did what it was supposed to do and was purposefully bypassed after the ride system entered a failsafe. The only other scenario I've already described is if the ride was run in maintenance mode or a full manual mode, which shouldn't be allowed to happen with loaded trains by operations EVER.

Nature has taken over already, see trees growing inside of Big Dipper's structure. However much of Geauga Lake was concrete or areas filled in with rubble. Things won't grow for quite some time. Then what grows will be mainly weeds and tall grasses, not really a great sight seeing concrete rubble and grass. I'm all for development or a recreational area of some sorts. Amusement business in Geauga and Portage, not one bit. If a city fights on bringing wider roads and tourism services (hotel chains, etc.) then it's not a good investment, as it's been shown.

A Great Wolf Lodge that hasn't been updated in several years has everything open and is a more enjoyable waterpark than Kentucky Kingdom. However, I'm a sucker for Proslide Hydromagnetic Coasters

I don't know which is worse..a potential operator error or a serious manufacturer defect regarding this accident. Both are horrible and shouldn't be able to happen. Hearing one amputation and two others still in the hospital with this poor woman is just terrible news.

Interesting. If they're back the park makes no mention of them on the website. It'll be nice to see roaming entertainment again this season

Park isnt busy at all. Came in to snag a few rides in Action Zone and got it all done. Now to debate if I eat in the park and head home or enjoy the last few hours

I've been watching off ride footage...so far blocking seems to be followed. However a few 5 minute videos over the course of years doesn't do it justice. If that system let a train drop off the lift and meet a valleyed car in that block, I'll be furious at Gerstlauer The ride shouldn't be in maintenance mode loaded. Operations shouldn't even have a key for that, ever. The only two things I can think of is if maintenance was there operating the ride, given its technical issues earlier that's possible speculation. Second would be if the empty unit was set to he transferred off and transfer enable was selected. If that's the case and the ride went into full manual mode, again I'm going to be livid with Gerstlauer.

That is not normal operation at all however. It can stall in the inversion, however, there is nothing on any of the inversions to purposefully stop the ride

^^^If done correctly it never happens. Something broke, some sensor was incorrectly tripped, or my scenario is true. Not like it makes this outcome any worse, but I hope my scenarios are wrong. I hope it's some out of this world, never could happen, 1 in infinity chance, how the hell accident versus bad PLC programming. If the train made it to lift #2 and engaged, this wouldn't have happened, so lift #1 should have stopped until then. However I believe potentially for the sake of capacity, scenario #2 is true. If the ride judged the speed of train #1 and said, it'll clear, and kept train #2 going on the lift, but then train #1 valleyed before it got to the second lift, oh boy.

Two trains can occupy blocks right next to eachother (say one on lift, one after) there isn't always a brake between them. As long as a train can be stopped at the entrance and exit, the train can occupy that area. Two trains cannot occupy that same area however.

Oh no, this is what I feared would happen. Watching the POV (created in 2013), there are several proximity switches on the lift hill to detect the trains location along it's ascent. There seems to be a trim or block brake between inversions three and four with proximity switches there. This trim I would suspect caused the previous valley issue that was caused by a trim brake. The next set of sensors and brakes are right before lift two. There's a trim brake right before the ride engages onto the vertical lift. Interestingly enough, the train can roll back down the second lift to be reset before climbing again. There brake before the lift can hold a train as well. The brakes on the lift hill look to be eddy current brakes. This isn't the first coaster that lets a train roll back down a lift hill (see Maverick). However the eddy current brakes are equipped on the left side of the train and track. There are friction brakes on the right side of the track and train. Before the lift hill it looks like there are very VERY small calipers to engage these as a blocking mechanism. At the end of the ride and on the transfer table there are normal Arrow esque sized ones, but these are virtually nonexistent on the second lift hill. So, just speculation. Either the ride came down the lift hill or didn't advance all the way to the lift hill. This would trigger the sensors to clear the previous block, allowing the next train to advance up the lift and enter the first ride block. However, if it rolls back, the eddy current brakes there aren't enough to completely stop the ride. However, the ride would then have to have enough momentum to climb back through two inversions to meet the train where the collision happened. This event seems very unlikely but I won't rule anything out just yet, this is a bizarre scenario to begin with Second scenario is when the train clears the trim brake between inversions three and four, somehow clearing the block, or giving the ride the go ahead to send the next train given it's speed and distance. I don't like this setup and I wouldn't believe a manufacturer would let this system be setup this way, however here we are today. I could liken it to almost Dragster. The sensors up on the top hat detect the train, once it knows it's cleared, the next train advances from the transfer track to the launch track. If you notice, even while the train is still at crest, the next train can still advance. So if the first train cleared that, but somehow stalled and valleyed, the next train is sent thinking the block is clear, as the next train should be at the lift hill or on it already. However the train has no sensors to detect a valley or any way of preventing it. The only thing at this point it could maybe do if it faults out is engage the trim brake which looks to be another eddy current brake with no friction brakes, so it will only slow, not completely stop. Thus, collision in the batwing element

Not one bit. The only way a system will in some ways bypass the safety system is in Maintenance Mode where everything moves manual, but this is never on during operation, and usually is key activated on most panels and operations does not have this key. Regardless the safety systems are still there. This is typically used when the ride has a fault and maintenance comes in. The rides basically have a series of sensors along the course in certain areas (bottom/top of lift hills, before/after brakes, etc). The sensors basically detect where the train is along the ride and keep the trains spaced apart to prevent issues such as this. The sensors at the beginning signal that the train is in that area of the track. The sensors at the end after triggered tell the PLC (programmable logic controller) that the train is no longer in that area and that section is now clear. The system also will use cross checks (usually sensors come in pairs) and check itself. Any issues (say one sensor says the ride is there, the other doesn't) and the ride will fault and setup the ride, stopping any forward motion at the next available stop. Say a train is about to come close to cresting the lift hill, if a train hasn't cleared the mid course or safety brake (depending on the ride), the lift motor will stop, thus the train stops advancing on the lift. The anti rollbacks engage* and the train stops from entering the next block. Whatever happened to Smiler makes me quite curious. Something either didn't grab in time, something faulted, or somehow the first train advanced past a block and somehow rolled back. I'll be watching curiously to see what all happened. Operator error could have come into play. Depending on how close the trains got, usually even if you know the trains will setup (using lift hill issue discussed above) the ride operators should still press the lift stop or e-stop as a preventative measure and stop it before the safety system does it automatically. This practice may not have been done and at that point too late. However, it's too early to tell. I need to watch the POV to even see where the blocks are, and try to get some nice off ride footage to see how the ride is run. Seeing as I've never been over there I can't really comment on how it's operated daily. Regardless, something somehow happened, four riders have life changing injuries unfortunately, and now the industry as a whole is going to react, and in some ways overreact. I'm sure you will see ripples here in Cedar Fair parks, new ride installation changes, and new SOP's coming later. Look post Texas Giant at all the changes, they were there, some quite drastic. See how operations at Cedar Fair parks changed and how quickly IROC was brought in and ride operations retrained. Cedar Point took quite the hit operationally this season as a result.

Don't ride Flight of Fear then. About 4500 Amps flow through that ride at peak phase

TPR wasnt' allowed at Cedar Point a few years back too if memory serves correct.

No it wouldn't. I don't need a Vekoma SLC being put in the exact spot and painted red on red.

According to park app: Flight of Fear: 60 Firehawk: 50 Banshee: 40 Backlot: 30 Invertigo: 30 Beast: 30 Delirium: 20 Vortex: 20 Diamondback: 15 Drop Tower: 15 Bat: 15 Adventure Express: 10 Racer: 0 WindSeeker: 0 Webcams show have of a Diamondback queue being used, a full woodstock queue and half of Banshee's queues. Soak City is closed

Perhaps, but I felt like it spun the same speed as other frisbees I've been on, so far Revolution is the only one that has repeatedly made me not able to ride something for a few minutes afterwards.

Don't let him catch you saying that, the banhammer might fall on you

I'll pass. I'm not sure why the seats being on the inside vs outside cause issues, but that ride makes me quite queasy.

Forget either Huss Frisbee, go north and ride the Screamin' Swing

Live Updates: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11646279/Alton-Towers-Smiler-ride-crash.html Significant, but not life threatening injuries now being reported. Park open tomorrow except this area, as it is currently closed. Full investigation pending, 16 people on the train, 8 with injuries (four men & women)

Previous incidents: Ride malfunction on lifthill prompted shutdown Train Valley x 2 Bolt holding track segments came undone, creating gap in the track Crack in support Chain Guide Wheels detached, struck riders Current Incident. I cannot fault the first issue, a ride shutdown is a ride shutdown. They're unfortunate but they do happen. If the ride feels that everything isn't 100% ok it's not going to send the train. The valleying issue is also unfortunate, stuff happens. Many coasters are prone to this, that's not a safety fault. One valley was even caused by the safety system being triggered. I can't fault overprotection. The bolt issue was an issue for sure, how that happened I'd still like to know. That's honestly a first for me regarding a steel coaster. Having a crack in a support, they found it and fixed it, these things happen, and more than you think. Supports are replaced and fixed on coasters all the time. That's what Non Destructive Testing is for. The chain guide wheels issue I have no clue about, I need to research into that one. Current issue still pending

Gerstlauer has only had one other issue involving Texas Giant, which wasn't an issue with the trains they provided, that was an operational issue as known. I don't see or know of any other issues involving this manufacturer, I'll dig later. Smiler has small trains, you're seeing two of the trains pressed together, there's four cars (or rows) per train

Press release ongoing. Updates soon

Oh wow. That ride looks incredible too, hell the whole park does. I can't believe something like this happened. Hopefully this isn't going to result in loss of life or limb. In going to actively watch for updates on this one. Quite concerning