Enough with all the trim comments!

[Beast79]

Ok ok we all know that Beast has trims, it always has had trims and the magnetic trims which have been there since the 2003 season are a little much but enough is enough. Trust me I hated them when they were installed, I worked maintenance at the time and I did ask if at least the one on top of the first curve hill be adjusted to prevent the loss of speed. Diamond Back has trims we know, myself I wouldn't question anyone from B&M with all the engineering and testing that is involved with I'm just glad that I'm able to go to ki and enjoy life. Lets all enjoy our love for coasters and try not to complain about all the small things. Ok I think I'm done for now!

[gigacoaster2k]

Wow.

Beast is trimmed to the point where it is no longer enjoyable for me (in fact I did not ride it on my last trip there). They added an extremely grabby trim on the straightaway and it is obvious. I have complained and I have voiced my opinion.. which is what forums are for to an extent. I will continue to do so, and no one on here that is not a moderator or an administrator will be successful in telling me to shut up.

Until you ride Voyage, Legend, and Raven at Holiday World, I really don't want to hear any more about how fabulous trim brakes are or how they are "there for your safety."

Voyage is the world's #1 woodie. It has no trims.

Millennium Force is the world's #2 steel. It also has no trims.

Hmm.. what does the general population like better?

Useless trims are a Cedar Fair fetish, and you will not convince me otherwise.

[MarketingExpress]

I find it odd that one would say to drop the trim brake comments, but at the same time they go out of their way to create a brand new topic discussing trim brakes.

[Thrill_Biscuit]

So, you're asking us to... trim... the trim comments?

Tb, who just....

[The Interpreter]

...Voyage is the world's #1 woodie....

In someone's opinion. Not mine, and not that of many others. I wouldn't presume to name the world's number one woodie, for you see, I have not ridden all of them. Yet.

Terpy, who at one time had ridden every woodie in the USA, and who wouldn't even say Voyage is the best woodie in the USA...and no, his number one woodie isn't in New Jersey either...in fact he has difficulty deciding on one and flip-flops constantly between two....

[Hank]

I have to go for a colonoscopy. Sure, they know how to do them, but you have to drink this prep stuff (yuck) and then they almost knock you out to put a rubber hose up your colon. I understand the importance of this test, but they've got to find a better way to do this procedure.

I get on a coaster that always had trim brakes (The Beast) but now they've changed them to magnetic trims brakes and it is unpleasureable - not quite as bad as a rubber hose going up your butt, but you get the idea. I understand the importance of the brakes, but they've got to figure out a better way to reinforce the track and such so as not to require the brakes OR figure out how to make better trim brakes altogether. A little thinking outside the box is needed here and for the 25 million the parks are paying for their new coasters, outside odf the box thinking is certainly not asking too much.

[dare-to-fly]

I get on a coaster that always had trim brakes (The Beast) but now they've changed them to magnetic trims brakes and it is unpleasureable - not quite as bad as a rubber hose going up your butt, but you get the idea. I understand the importance of the brakes, but they've got to figure out a better way to reinforce the track and such so as not to require the brakes OR figure out how to make better trim brakes altogether. A little thinking outside the box is needed here and for the 25 million the parks are paying for their new coasters, outside odf the box thinking is certainly not asking too much.

I probably don't have to mention what I think of trims - see signature - and I wish that all of them were gone. Personally, I don't think it's too much to ask that the coasters be as much fun as they were designed for. Beast's brakes are perhaps the worst, but what about Diamondback, Backlot, Vortex, Flight of Fear, RACER, Beastie, Son of Beast, Magnum, Maverick, Gemini, Mean Streak, Mantis, Raptor, High Roller, Excaliber, Wild Thing...and all of those are just at 3 Cedar Fair parks. I can't think of a single one of them that wouldn't run safely without the trims. Many of them didn't open with trims, either, and are just plain neglected and forgotten about - High Roller the worst example. This could be a top ten coaster for me.

Giga - You're my HERO! Holiday World's coasters are all proof that you can let your coasters move, if you choose. Cedar Fair does not!

So, who thinks the trim comments will stop from me?? Anyone? That's what I thought.

Flyer, who wants to fly free of trims!

[SonofBeast07]

Trim breaks suck!

[Beast79]

The smart thing ki could do is consult with the guys from Gravity Group install a 90 degree turn swiping out of the first tunnel than another one at the end of the brake run and then throw in some new Timberlines.

[HTCO]

^ But that is more expensive. And it takes away from the real beast! Being smashed into your seat! Just take out the trim breaks!!!

[The Interpreter]

^ But that is more expensive. And it takes away from the real beast! Being smashed into your seat! Just take out the trim breaks!!!

Bad pun intended, I take it?

Terpy, who wonders if you are taking a break from your park visit and posting from a phone...

[IndyGuy4KI]

I get on a coaster that always had trim brakes (The Beast) but now they've changed them to magnetic trims brakes and it is unpleasureable - not quite as bad as a rubber hose going up your butt, but you get the idea. I understand the importance of the brakes, but they've got to figure out a better way to reinforce the track and such so as not to require the brakes OR figure out how to make better trim brakes altogether. A little thinking outside the box is needed here and for the 25 million the parks are paying for their new coasters, outside odf the box thinking is certainly not asking too much.

I probably don't have to mention what I think of trims - see signature - and I wish that all of them were gone. Personally, I don't think it's too much to ask that the coasters be as much fun as they were designed for. Beast's brakes are perhaps the worst, but what about Diamondback, Backlot, Vortex, Flight of Fear, RACER, Beastie, Son of Beast, Magnum, Maverick, Gemini, Mean Streak, Mantis, Raptor, High Roller, Excaliber, Wild Thing...and all of those are just at 3 Cedar Fair parks. I can't think of a single one of them that wouldn't run safely without the trims. Many of them didn't open with trims, either, and are just plain neglected and forgotten about - High Roller the worst example. This could be a top ten coaster for me.

Giga - You're my HERO! Holiday World's coasters are all proof that you can let your coasters move, if you choose. Cedar Fair does not!

So, who thinks the trim comments will stop from me?? Anyone? That's what I thought.

Flyer, who wants to fly free of trims!

You guys crack me up. You are starting to rub off on me. I never paid much attention to them before joining this site besides going "Hey, why is there a brake on the drop of The Beast?" Now my experience on a coaster is much different by feeling how the ride handles and "brakes" in certain areas. For that, I thank everyone here for changing how I ride a coaster and understand much better why I can get different rides on the same ride!

I agree Giga, ridding The Beast Monday morning was fun, but not as fun as it used to be. It was much better in the afternoon.

Trims should only be applied if the train is over a certain MPH, and only applied enough to slow it down to a desired MPH to make the ride a consistent speed. I am sure that is what they are going for, but that was not what I experienced on my last visit.

[HTCO]

^ But that is more expensive. And it takes away from the real beast! Being smashed into your seat! Just take out the trim breaks!!!

Bad pun intended, I take it?

Terpy, who wonders if you are taking a break from your park visit and posting from a phone...

Caught. Red Handed. And no. Unless you count a HP netbook a phone? Then yes.

[Beast79]

I agree on all the trims from first drop to the final break run, they could adjust the distance between magnets. The only practical ones are on the final break run, I have personally seen trains almost blow thru with wet friction breaks from rain. I have not ridden beast this year I'm going to have to try to today since I'm normally in Nick Universe with my little beasties, this makes 20 years of riding The Beast for me.

[The Interpreter]

Break--a stop for revival; a fracture, to become out of order.

Brake--A device to stop things, the act of stopping things.

Sigh.

[AZ Kinda Guy]

A couple things.....First, consulting the Gravity Group and throwing their new trains on Beast isn't the "smart thing" to do. In fact, thats probably the most assine thing to do. If its not broke, don't fix it. Second, since when does Vortex, Flight of Fear, and Son of Beast currently have trim brakes? Thats news to me.

Now for my two cents about The Beast. I consider Beast to be overated and nothing more than a really big Adventure Express up until one part. Having said that, the coaster itself is a massive achievement and the double helix is still one of the best moments on any coaster I've ridden and continues to be to this day. When it comes to the trims, they are there and they aren't going anywhere anytime soon so theres nothing anyone can do about it. All the moaning and groaning in the world won't help in getting the trim brakes removed from The Beast.

[Hoeter]

Vortex, Flight of Fear, and Son of Beast have MCBR's. This kills the speed and momentum of the ride and kills the fun as well, just like a trim brake.

Vortex slows you to a crawl, and Flight of Fear almost stops you completely. Son of Beast isn't so bad as the other two IMO.

As for The Beast, the trim brakes aren't going anywhere soon unfortunately. I took my Dad to the park last season and he hasn't ridden The Beast since it first opened in 1979. He rode it last season, and absolutely hated it with the trim brakes. It seemed more "unchained" to him back then.

[Beast79]

Mid course block breaks are there for safety reasons, coasters are set up in blocks to allow more than one train on the track at one time.

[Tchu]

I do occasionally wonder, amongst the coaster enthusiast community, if it’s more just complaining because there’s a brake present, and not complaining because of what it actually does (or doesn’t) take away from the ride.

For example, the 5th hill trim on DB. What if it wasn’t there, but the train naturally carried less speed up and over the hill so that no trim wasn't necessary…. would people still complain, or would Diamondback suddenly be praised for the fact that it has no trims anywhere outside of the MCBR and final brake run?

If the train is traveling at 70mph, and the brake trims it to 60mph… what if the train just naturally never got to 70mph and just traveled at 60. They would crest the hill at the same speed, producing relatively similar/identical G-forces and amounts of air… but would one be vilified simply for having a brake?

As it relates to The Beast, there are trims I like and trims I don’t. I loathe the trims before the second drop, because without them, there would be a great burst of (likely) ejector air. I appreciate the trims in the shed. I think they’re too abrupt and a trim off a little too much speed as of right now, but I wouldn’t want them removed completely. The following couple of turns would just be brutal and unpleasant.

With all that said, it’s not exactly fair to compare The Beast to other woodies and criticize its use of brakes. The Beast is an entirely different animal from pretty much every other wood coaster out there. Maybe Raven doesn’t have brakes, but Raven features much smaller trains with lower capacity. Thus, the trains aren’t going to carry anywhere remotely near the weight of Beast’s trains. Couple that with the fact that Raven tops out at about 45-50mph, while The Beast reaches speeds of 60-70mph… and we’re talking a whole lot less stress that would be put on the track in theory.

And while Voyage may not have any trims, it’s also 4 years old and technically a hybrid coaster offering it advantages in stresses over a true wooden coaster. With all that in its favor, I’ll still be surprised it 20 years from now Voyage is trimless. It’s not fair to Beast to compare what precautions are necessary in its 30th year of operating to a coaster that has been in existence just 1/10th that amount of time.

[AZ Kinda Guy]

Beast reaching 60-70 MPH? Your too funny

[Tchu]

Fair enough. Never reaches 70, and I suppose you could argue no coaster really reaches the speeds they're advertised at (cuz 50mph sounds sexier than 47 and so on), but it's listed as topping out at 64.8mph. Even with the trims here and there throughout the ride, you're flying at a couple points.

Either way its a bigger, taller, faster wooden coaster than the vast majority of its counterparts. Making it an entirely different structure to have to deal with.

[TTD-120-420]

The trim brakes on Maverick after the tunnel are needed. The stengel dives and other elements are already extreme to the general public. Without the trims it would probably kill you. It was already to much for the heartline roll, and that was with the trims.

[KIfan1980]

Well - I see we all listened well to the first post in this thread! So here are my thoughts.

First, I agree with Gator - before lurking on KIC, I don't think I worried as much about trims as I do now. I blame the infamous 2008 Trim Brake Debate (Featuring Dare-to-Fly, Gordon Bombay, and The Interpreter) for this but don't hold it against any of you.The big issues for me are:

• The impact that magnetic trims have on the ride experience versus what the old skid trims had. It just didn't feel as bad when you were slowed down over a longer distance. I know magnetic trims are more efficient, lower maintenance, and more reliable - it doesn't make them better
• The fact that trims are "always on" - the technology exists that could trim a ride only if a "safe" speed was being exceeded versus trimming every train. Ride Ops will tell you that without any adjustment to trims, speeds can vary wildly on The Beast depending upon day/ time/ weather/ other factors. Why trim if the speed doesn't require it?
• The use of MCBR as trims. Some people seem to give a pass to the MCBR being used as a trim because MCBR's are blocking devices necessary for Safety. If this is the case, use them as such to either stop the train or let the train fly depending upon whether the preceeding train has cleared the next block

I feel better now, but would feel even better if I could get some trims detuned on The Beast (2nd hill and old MCBR shed).

[Beast79]

I remember seeing the magnetic trim breaks being made and I'm sure they are adjustable.

[skaterboy22101]

I remember seeing the magnetic trim breaks being made and I'm sure they are adjustable.

I didn't know you could adjust a magnet. Can you help me adjust my clackers? I wan't them to be more powerful!

Skaterboy who knows better...

[Beast79]

I'm talking about the distance between magnets, there is two magnets on both sides and the brake fin runs thru them. Simple earth bond magnets

[skaterboy22101]

I'm talking about the distance between magnets, there is two magnets on both sides and the brake fin runs thru them. Simple earth bond magnets

I know, I was just messin' with 'ya.

[Beast79]

Oh you don't want to be messin around we me!! hahaha

[Diamondback FOF]

If the train is traveling at 70mph, and the brake trims it to 60mph… what if the train just naturally never got to 70mph and just traveled at 60. They would crest the hill at the same speed, producing relatively similar/identical G-forces and amounts of air… but would one be vilified simply for having a brake?

Actually, there would be a difference. With the trim, you get ejected out of your seat. Without a trim, you would just float out.

Beast reaching 60-70 MPH? Your too funny

Actually, I read a post on here not too long ago saying that The Beast, does get up to 70 mph under the right conditions. I'm trying to find that post.

[TopThrill]

Well I rode The Beast when it had the skid breaks, and I liked the fact that when the train went over them you didn't really notice it. But when they had that bump in the station, they changed out all the skid and replaced them with magnetic breaks. The thing is the spots were they but them in, they just putted a few in the section. So when the train is hauling down though the section it comes up on the small section of magnetic breaks, and everyone falls forward. I never remember that happening with the skid breaks.