CedarPointer Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 ^wow i never noticed how much a wood chipper sounded just like SoB. It does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Kid Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I really wonder what it would like to be a rider during the 2006 accident.Like if you could see your life flash before before you. I rode it two days before the accident(on friday, happened on sunday). The ride ran great. I wonder what really could have gone on wrong between friday and sunday. I really hate how we don't have very many details about that day. Does anyone know more? I rode it ealier in the day of the accident. We did not get back to Action Zone after lunch and left probably about 2 PM. I did not know about the accident till a co-worker asked if I was ok. I had no idea why she was asking. The ride seemed fine to me at the time. I rode it on that day I had finaly built the courage(or insanity) to ride it. I feared for myslef becasue I was so scared. I was actully 2 trains ahead of the train that had the accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofBeast07 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 to think, if a group cut in front of you or you had stopped for a drink you would have been on that train Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyMan98 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 What did happen on the accident? Just a very rough spot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Kid Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Yea I belive a support had broke under then causing a rough spot in the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakota2112 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 A link to the state engineer's inspection report is in here somewhere in a fairly recent post. It has very detailed information about what happened, including pictures of the failed components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 From just a page ago!!!! As has been discussed previously in this and other threads, Cedar Fair appears to be self insured.... Appearances and fact are often quite different. I am not saying that they are not, but, I would like to see more evidence that the park is self-insured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 The 2008 10-K filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission refers to the self insurance reserve: ...Self-Insurance Reserves Reserves are recorded for the estimated amounts of guest and employee claims and expenses incurred each period that are not covered by insurance. Reserves are established for both identified claims and incurred but not reported (IBNR) claims. Such amounts are accrued for when claim amounts become probable and estimable. Reserves for identified claims are based upon our own historical claims experience and third-party estimates of settlement costs. Reserves for IBNR claims, which are not material to our consolidated financial statements, are based upon our own claims data history, as well as industry averages. All reserves are periodically reviewed for changes in facts and circumstances and adjustments are made as necessary.... Oddly, there is also this: GOVERNMENT REGULATION All rides are run and inspected daily by both the Partnership's maintenance and ride operations personnel before being put into operation. The parks are also periodically inspected by the Partnership's insurance carrier and, at Cedar Point, Knott's Berry Farm, Kings Island, Kings Dominion, Carowinds, Great America, Dorney Park, Geauga Lake, Worlds of Fun and Michigan's Adventure, by state ride-safety inspectors. Valleyfair contracts with a third party to inspect its rides per Minnesota law and submits the third-party report to the state agency.... And yet, there is NO reference to amounts paid for insurance. At all. The amount in self insurance reserves as of the report was $20,686,000. http://www.cedarfair.com/_upload/pressrele...d%20version.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerRider Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I wish they would tell us if the ride is done or not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyMan98 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 They probably don't want to say anything in the offseason at this point. I bet they'll wait until some more riders into the 2010 season, and then announce something. But one thing I know is they won't announce anything at all if they don't destroy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I wish I would quit hearing people complain about not knowing! Give me one good reason why they should announce it before April, if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerRider Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Umm. So we know what's gonna happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Kid Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Jeez Jackson getting a little argry arnt we. But with me I just hope for the best with the ride I love the ride and will wait for my chance to ride it and you know I will be in the first train of the public when it does open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I wish I would quit hearing people complain about not knowing! So you are complaining about people complaining. Ok.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 And yet, there is NO reference to amounts paid for insurance. At all. The amount in self insurance reserves as of the report was $20,686,000. The amounts paid for insurance would be included in the operating expenses. The insurance reserves are for this (from page 17): (Bold emphasis added) Self-Insurance Reserves Reserves are recorded for the estimated amounts of guest and employee claims and expenses incurred each period that are not covered by insurance. Reserves are established for both identified claims and incurred but not reported (IBNR) claims. Such amounts are accrued for when claim amounts become probable and estimable. Reserves for identified claims are based upon our own historical claims experience and third-party estimates of settlement costs. Reserves for IBNR claims, which are not material to our consolidated financial statements, are based upon our own claims data history, as well as industry averages. All reserves are periodically reviewed for changes in facts and circumstances and adjustments are made as necessary. Given this report, it is apparent that CF is not self insured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkroz Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Money is saved for guest and employees claims that are not covered by expenses? Yeah, sure sounds like they're not self-insured. It says right there that they keep a certain amount of money handy just in case of a guest claim... Plus Terpy gave a freakin' dollar amount! Hahaa. I said in an earlier post that quite simply, none of us (to my knowledge) are on the inner-workings of Cedar Fair and thus none of us know for sure what is happening right this second unless they chose to make their status with insurance, Son of Beast, etc. public. There's either an answer or there isn't. Apparently, we don't know either way except for Terpy's very specific and researched dollar amount vs. your constant insistence that they're not self-insured... One of which is clearly the answer, but I'll leave that up to you to decide which one I'm leaning towards. Also, for a veteran, you should know better than to double post immediately after your first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 ^ You think that $20,000,000 + is enough to be self insured for all of CF's holdings? Just the Paramount parks alone were $1.24 billion. The $20,686,000 that CF has in reserve would only cover about 1.65% of just the Paramount parks. And you think that is enough insurance for all of the properties? I suggest you read the report that was given, especially the part that says the $20,686,000 is a reserve for the portions that the insurance carrier does not cover. Insurance costs come out of the operating expenses. Just like the expense for utilities, food, maintenance that are also not mentioned in the report as well. They all fall under the same catagory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Kid Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I always imagined the announcement for it's removal looking something like this: The funny thing is that there is a train with people in it. So there going to destroy it with people on it. wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bc9755 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 ^ You think that $20,000,000 + is enough to be self insured for all of CF's holdings? Just the Paramount parks alone were $1.24 billion. The $20,686,000 that CF has in reserve would only cover about 1.65% of just the Paramount parks. And you think that is enough insurance for all of the properties? I suggest you read the report that was given, especially the part that says the $20,686,000 is a reserve for the portions that the insurance carrier does not cover. Insurance costs come out of the operating expenses. Just like the expense for utilities, food, maintenance that are also not mentioned in the report as well. They all fall under the same catagory. I am certainly no expert on this kind of stuff and wouldn't claim to be, but I do find this intriguing. It kinda seems to me that CF SHOULD have an insurance policy in place for their parks and this reserve is just that ... a reserve. If things got really, REALLY bad and they had tons of claims, they'd have to dip into the reserve to cover their pay-outs if something wasn't covered in their policy. I'm assuming CF is insured for a bit more than their properties are worth. I'm sure it's possible, but it just seems unlikely that they'd carry the insurance burden themselves ... from what I've read in the report it seems possible, but why? Does anyone know if other parks carry insurance or are self-insured (SF, Disney, etc.)? Feel free to school me on this ... I'd love to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dvo Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I always imagined the announcement for it's removal looking something like this: The funny thing is that there is a train with people in it. So there going to destroy it with people on it. wow The REALLY funny thing is that that will be the smoothest ride ever on SoB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 ^ You think that $20,000,000 + is enough to be self insured for all of CF's holdings? Just the Paramount parks alone were $1.24 billion. The $20,686,000 that CF has in reserve would only cover about 1.65% of just the Paramount parks. And you think that is enough insurance for all of the properties? I suggest you read the report that was given, especially the part that says the $20,686,000 is a reserve for the portions that the insurance carrier does not cover. Insurance costs come out of the operating expenses. Just like the expense for utilities, food, maintenance that are also not mentioned in the report as well. They all fall under the same catagory. So you think CF has $1.24+ Billion worth of insurance? That seems like a little much to me... But, I would have no idea to what it would really be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyMan98 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Ugh. Just tear the stupid thing down! This thread has so much controversy...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 So you think CF has $1.24+ Billion worth of insurance? That seems like a little much to me... But, I would have no idea to what it would really be. Absolutely not. They are going to have enough insurance to protect and cover their investment. If you ever purchase home owners insurance, you need to have sufficient insurance to cover your home and the belongings in the home. Part of your mortgage contract is to have sufficient insurance as they need to protect themselves as well. Now think of all the rides, buildings, and equipment that just Paramount had at the sale. Do you think a $20,000,000 reserve would cover it? Now add in liability insurance and workman's compensation. A $20,000,000 reserve is not even close to what they would need. Think of it this way: say something catastrophic happened to DB and the ride was no longer able to operate and needed to be torn down. If CF was self insured, not only would they lose the initial price tag of the ride, $22,000,000, the park would also be on the hook for the deconstruction of the ride as well as take care of any injuries that the ride has caused. And that is only for one ride at one park. Obviously I am only using very general numbers and there is much, much, more to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I figured they somehow had more than $20,000,000 worth of insurance, but I read your post and took it as you were saying they probably have $1.2+4 Billion of insurance. I see what you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausty1983 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I'm just curious but where on SOB did the accident occur at I never did hear what part of it and I just watched the video on youtube of it over&over and couldn't figure it out. I saw someone posted a comment and said they are reopening it next season too. I will believe it when I see it with people on it agian. Until than I doubt it will if they don't waste more $$$$$ than already have on it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 The 2006 accident? I think it was just before entering the loop (at the base of the loop). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausty1983 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I'm lost on how this wasn't fixed time over time before something serious would have happened and the state approved it safe to be opened back up. I'm lost on that really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWildman424 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 The 2006 accident happened in the Rose Bowl. I believe it was about half way up on one the first time through. ^As it has been stated at least once in this thread, and other places. The accident was due to a failure that could not have been foreseen. It was a one time occurrence. It was the second train that went through that injured people. When the first train came back and complained about the jolt, they shut down the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I'm lost on how this wasn't fixed time over time before something serious would have happened and the state approved it safe to be opened back up. I'm lost on that really... In one of the reports, I *think* it was stated the breaking on that wooden support was a one time, instant type thing. It wasn't something that would've been spotted in looking over the ride. Once this section was fixed, it was inspected and was found to be safe. The 2006 accident happened in the Rose Bowl. I believe it was about half way up on one the first time through. I could've swore it was at the base of the loop, and that was why it was removed. Edit: Nevermind. The loop was removed so lighter trains could be used. The accident was in the Rose Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Uh...the loop was removed so that lighter trains could be used to reduce the stress on the structure. And in recent statements made under oath for purposes of a court proceeding, a state inspector speculated the coaster was constructed with inferior wood and stated that, in his opinion, no systemic approach had been made to repairing the coaster, with efforts being made instead on an ad hoc..or instance by instance...basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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