CincyMan98 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 That makes my point even better! If SoB is gone next year; look for a new coaster/ride coming out about 2013 or 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 And that was two completely different operators. Hercules at DP closed and was quickly replaced... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Not to mention drastically different economic times and financial pressures. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Well The Bat and Vortex were both built by Arrow, and if I am correct Arrow did Vortex as a free (or cheap) replacement for their failure on The Bat? So as terp said different time different situation......... Just an FYI those of us who guess and say SOB may be torn down are not doing it in spite or as a personal attack but are guessing (yes guessing) on what Ceder Fair will do. No one knows what they will do but I am certain (100%) that whatever they will do will be for the long term betterment of the park and most importantly their pocket books..... That may be a quick fix with continuous maintenance on SOB, or a complete tear down and build of a ride with less maintenance..... we wont know till they tell us.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Personally, I would be happy with a tear down and a few flat rides in its place, rather than have a huge eyesore that isn't operating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coney Islander Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Personally, I would be happy with a tear down and a few flat rides in its place, rather than have a huge eyesore that isn't operating. Most think SOB is a beaut'. But sometimes, your eyes deceive you... And then, I personally think the concept for SOB makes the ride look like its the best coaster ever! Its not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Personally, I would be happy with a tear down and a few flat rides in its place, rather than have a huge eyesore that isn't operating. Most think SOB is a beaut'. But sometimes, your eyes deceive you... And then, I personally think the concept for SOB makes the ride look like its the best coaster ever! Its not. a 200 ft drop = best coaster idea of the time....... the rest is up to the rider I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 If the wood were stained, it would look much better. It's an impressive structure, but I wouldn't say that beautiful is the word that I would use. I just wish that PP wouldn't have tried to do so much with one ride. If it were a smaller woodie with a loop, it might still have a loop... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Like I said - do the math......Tear down, replace = ???????? Fix = ???????? I'm sure the fix will be a lot less - if they do it properly. So all the time, effort, and money already used hasn't been properly done? That's a bold statement. Do you think the execs were happy to throw away their money and have zero results? The issues with SoB have been there since day 1, and at this point, the ride has been SBNO more than running in it's lifetime. Name another ride that has gained such a reputation & caused so mant complaints/ injuries over (almost) 10 years- and still stands today. I'm sure that with all the money both Paramount and CF has poured into SoB since 2000, the ride could have been torn down already for less. It's not like either company did not try to save it. Think about all the retracking, new trains, loop removal and strengthening that has gone on. The ride has been re-engineered numerous times already. And no, removing parts of the ride & re-re-engineering it all over again is not the answer. Could they do it, sure, but why? It's not like SoB was that great of a ride to begin with. While coaster enthusiasts make up a very small percentage of the guests a park has, and coaster enthusiasts RARELY agree on anything, they agree that SoB is a failed ride. And why would CF even want/ think about making SoB longer than Beast? Hasn't SoB tainted The Beast "reputation" already? Not to mention, the extra land that it would use to make it longer probably already has plans. The story of the Ford Pinto is rather similar to that of SoB, bad engineering from day 1, yet it was still produced for 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchu Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Something about all this Son of Beast talk is highly amusing. Especially with people talking like they know exactly what it costs to run SoB, what it costs to maintain SoB during the season and, then, offseason. Or what it would cost to demolish the ride and replace it with something else. I'm inclined to believe that few, if any, members of this website have detailed and accurate knowlege of what Cedar Fair is shelling out on SoB. As enthusiasts, we read around, study up... but there's still only so much we can know. We hear (occasionally from the parks themselves) that certain coasters are costly to maintain. That's information that has floated around about SoB, and given its general size and nature, that's believable. But even still, we don't know exactly what kind of cost Kings Island is looking at. All we know is that SoB has had, at times, a very negative reputation. We know it suffered a major accident in 2006 that sent a couple dozen people to the hospital. And we know its been shut down for a good part of the 09 operating season because of an investigation resulting in a serious head injury to a passenger of the ride. We know that Cedar Fair has left the ride shut down well after completion of its inspection. We know that CF has said they are not happy with the ride in its current operating state. We know that, in small ways, the ride has started to be 'boxed up'. Other than that, its all speculation, and nothing is fact. Some opinions are more realistic than others, but arguing about financial numbers that none of us are priviliged to see... doesn't really strike me as anything worth arguing over. If Cedar Fair deems, that over the course of the coasters expected life, maintenance and repairs and overhauls would be unnecessarily costly, they will remove the ride. And they will "replace" it. That's not to say the next year, or in two years or five years, and that's not to say with another coaster... but eventually, something else would move into that nice big space. Such is the nature of amusement parks. Space if filled, emptied, filled again and so on. But saying that the park won't tear down the coaster and won't replace it because keeping it around would be cheaper? Unlikely. Maybe in the short term, but over the course of twenty or thirty years? If the park tears it down and replaces it, it will be because the financial trade off was beneficial. It's also important to keep in mind, that a coaster's reputation factors in. It might cost more to tear down SoB and build a new woodie (fingers crossed for an Intamin prefab), but it could also bring with it a new experience. A ride that doesn't come with a history of complaints, injuries, accidents, down-time etc. That, itself, has financial benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dvo Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 ^^well said, tggrr. Sure a fix might be "cheaper" than tearing down and replacing. But "cheaper" isn't the same as "cost-effective." Who knows if a "fix" will actually fix the problem. Then they're just doing what they've already done... pour money into an investment that will be a minimal, if any, return. It's hard to say that there is a true "cost-effective" solution to SoB. Right now it's just a matter of making the best decision they can looking into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 An excellent post. One must also take into account what is the frame of reference for figuring return? Especially for a company facing substantial debt. Is it the next quarter? The next year? The next five years? The next 10 years? The next 50 years? The answer to that question can change many a calculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Well it seems that the last few of us have all stated the same thing... however we can guess how much it costs to maintain... the average price of a 2x4 is in the 3 dollar range...... jk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I don't think they use 2x4's. I think they are like 6x6's. Wow, that just got me thinkning. It costs A LOT of money to fixe even a 15 foot section of the track! I knew it cost a lot, but that just put it into perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 yeah seriously think about building a deck .... I would hope they use 6x6 but who knows maybe they saved money by stacking the 2x4s..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Material has expense, but engineering the work is as great an expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 And operating, insuring and maintaining it . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74Gibson Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 All of which is pennies compared to them being found liable for injuries. How much does insurance typically shelter amusement parks from liability payouts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakota2112 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 How much does insurance typically shelter amusement parks from liability payouts? And how much does the insurer increase the park's insurance premiums when they have reason to cite increased risk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIVortex Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 And about SoB and replacing it - people, you can't think it will be replaced! I mean, not after it is destroyed. I mean, when Bat was closed, Vortex came at least 3 years after that (I'm probably wrong) and Delirium replaced King Cobra - I don't know. King Cobra closed end of 2000, Delirium opened 2003- two full seasons in-between with empty space. Bat closed sometime in 1982, Vortex opened 1987- a bit more than four full seasons. Wrong...King Cobra's last season was 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSalsa Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 STUPID COMPUTER!!! Ignore this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSalsa Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 And about SoB and replacing it - people, you can't think it will be replaced! I mean, not after it is destroyed. I mean, when Bat was closed, Vortex came at least 3 years after that (I'm probably wrong) and Delirium replaced King Cobra - I don't know. King Cobra closed end of 2000, Delirium opened 2003- two full seasons in-between with empty space. Bat closed sometime in 1982, Vortex opened 1987- a bit more than four full seasons. Wrong...King Cobra's last season was 2001. Bat did not close in 1982. It ran from '81 until '84, and was removed before the start of the 1985 season (though it was closed most days while it ran). Vortex did indeed come 3 years later, in 1987. As for Delirium replacing King Cobra, that came a lot quicker, as King Cobra was actually still standing when the 2002 season started (not 100% sure, 90%, and it was not not shown on the park map that year) and was torn down during the 2002 season. Probably confused people who didn't know KI or visit it before. ("Mommy, why isn't that big green rollercoaster that's half buit on the map?" "It's probably what's new for 2003, honey..." Always tear rides down DURING THE OFFSEASON. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomkatt7 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I thought Delirium went in the space where Skylab used to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron88stang Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I thought Delirium went in the space where Skylab used to be? Skylab was over by racer's entrance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flightoffear1996 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Actually it was more where that cool zone is i thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCbengal985 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Actually it was more where that cool zone is i thought. The entrance to the ride is right where the basketball game Hang Time is, to the left of The Racer's entrance. The ride was in the little area where the "Cool Zone" is along with a couple other games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSonofBeast Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 And about SoB and replacing it - people, you can't think it will be replaced! I mean, not after it is destroyed. I mean, when Bat was closed, Vortex came at least 3 years after that (I'm probably wrong) and Delirium replaced King Cobra - I don't know. King Cobra closed end of 2000, Delirium opened 2003- two full seasons in-between with empty space. Bat closed sometime in 1982, Vortex opened 1987- a bit more than four full seasons. Wrong...King Cobra's last season was 2001. Bat did not close in 1982. It ran from '81 until '84, and was removed before the start of the 1985 season (though it was closed most days while it ran). Vortex did indeed come 3 years later, in 1987. As for Delirium replacing King Cobra, that came a lot quicker, as King Cobra was actually still standing when the 2002 season started (not 100% sure, 90%, and it was not not shown on the park map that year) and was torn down during the 2002 season. Probably confused people who didn't know KI or visit it before. ("Mommy, why isn't that big green rollercoaster that's half buit on the map?" "It's probably what's new for 2003, honey..." Always tear rides down DURING THE OFFSEASON. actually, The Bat did not operate in 1984, it just sat dormant while management figured out what to do with it. (havent we heard that again?) then it was announced that november it would be removed. It wasnt even all the way removed until 1986 so they could get The Vortex in its place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dvo Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 My brother works at the park and he just texted me saying that they're running some trains on Son of Beast today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel_SoB_fan Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 That is good news. Makes it seem more positive for good young Sonny. Really though that news just made me realize that I can't wait for my next ride on the World's Tallest, Fastest, and Baddest Woodie on the planet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Pics or it didn't happen. Or they're taking some POVs and footage of the ride for historical reasons before tearing it down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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