How much longer will KI's coasters/major rides last?

[Beast1979]

Trust me, I've seen it pre 2001. I'm saying it didn't need it in 2009. It made the rails oranger and the wheels squeakier.

[DropZone99]

http://www.casabrian.com/parks/pki2001.html

Look at The Vortex section. It was pretty awful.

[Beast1979]

Ok, this is just plain awful.

[Coney Islander]

Rust takes over faster than one might expect... I'd say this ride has no more than 10 more years, and thats a stretch. (Unless, of course, Cedar Fair decides to work on removing the rust/ painting.)

It does appear the supports have been painted recently.

[Beast1979]

The supports haven't been painted. They were originally darker then the track, so they still have some color after fading.

[coaster_junky]

Park love and coaster painting, as I see it, have no correlation. Though, I still think it's ridiculous that Vortex gets painted in 2001 and again in 2009 when it doesn't need it, and then Flight Deck goes unpainted and rotting for years.

Keep in mind how bad Vortex looked before they painted it in 2001. It might as well have been painted white. I can't find a pic right now, but I found one in a magazine a while ago, and was shocked... that must have been it's original paintjob!

[Aaron88stang]

So were they painting it mid season there? parts of it look fresh while the rest looks terrible.

[BeastForever]

I think that Drop Zone will stay at KI for a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time. It's an awesome flat ride that doesn't take up much space. It's also my favorite flat because it doesn't make me dizzy or nausea.

[The Interpreter]

a. Flight Deck received paint during this off-season.

b. Another Arrow multi-looper disappeared in the past season...as in Great American Scream Machine at Six Flags Great Adventure in New Jersey...and now that park is changING.

c. Meanwhile, the wooden coaster that once had a loop....oh, look over there, a nice new WindSeeker!

Terp, just 'memberin' and thinkin', and mentioning things for some reason or another...

[KIfan1980]

I love/hate it when you do things like this. It makes me think/imagine, and that's not always a good thing - Especially with the "planning" thread/posts from KI.

[CoasterKrazy]

I disagree with most of the people on here... Each of the following is my opinion, so don't take it too seriously.

1.) Vortex will probably not be removed in the next 20 years. Not only does Vortex have an extremely high capacity, but it is one of the most famous rides in the park (People in High School talk about it all the time, more than The Beast, even), it is repainted every few years, and, most of the general public don't find it overly rough. (People who ride Son of Beast expect it to be smooth, like The Beast. People who ride Vortex know what other people have to say about its' roughness... So if they don't want a rough ride, they avoid.) Not to mention the lines generally being at least fifteen minutes long, on days where Diamondback's is a half hour.

As much as I would hate to see Vortex go, it wouldn't surprise me if the coaster is reaching the end of its design life. From what I understand, some track work has been done over the last couple of seasons replacing rails, which to me indicates that fatigue is becoming an issue. Given the age of the ride, this is not surprising.

Unless the park is interested in extended maintenance (which they could be for all I know) I don't imagine Vortex will be around in 20 years, or even 10.

[The Interpreter]

Great American Scream Machine in New Jersey was two years newer than Vortex.

Shockwave at Great America of Illinois was one year newer than Vortex.

Both...are gone.

[IndyGuy4KI]

Since they are adding Vortex to ERT, it must not be anything to worry about at KI?

[The Interpreter]

...or the exact reverse, as in a goodbye tour?

Terp, merely posing possibilities...

[Diamondback FOF]

How long do steel coasters typically last? I know wooden ones can last a reallyyyyyy long time. But doesn't the steel in steel coasters start to get old, fatigued, etc to beyond it being able to safely operate?

[Snowman]

Great American Scream Machine in New Jersey was two years newer than Vortex.

Shockwave at Great America of Illinois was one year newer than Vortex.

Both...are gone.

Didn't they close Big Bad Wolf in Busch Gardens because it ran the course of it's maintenance life span?

Question to the coaster gurus here:

How does KI determine the lifespan of a coaster like Vortex?

[rotag]

Great American Scream Machine in New Jersey was two years newer than Vortex.

Shockwave at Great America of Illinois was one year newer than Vortex.

Both...are gone.

Didn't they close Big Bad Wolf in Busch Gardens because it ran the course of it's maintenance life span?

Question to the coaster gurus here:

How does KI determine the lifespan of a coaster like Vortex?

via king cobra comes to my mind of a company that went under; resulting the coaster to turn canable by recycling parts from other coasters of same ride type/company until parts became to scarce to even try anymore.

EDIT: yes, i know im no guru of any sort.

[The Interpreter]

Nondestructive testing is used to determine the soundness of such rides, usually during every off season.

Nearly a decade ago, Mr. Gramke, who holds a position at Kings Island, was even then saying Vortex was nearing the end of its lifespan. It was not the last time he said such a thing, either....

He likes to hold himself out as designer of The Beast at Kings Island. See this press release for an example:

...Jeff Gramke, designer of The Beast Roller Coaster at Kings Island, was the competition's emcee and luncheon speaker....

http://www.prweb.com...rweb5015874.htm

Terpy, who tries to be polite, and who often finds himself at such events where Mr. Gramke is a speaker....for some reason.

[IndyGuy4KI]

Hard to believe Vortex is at end of life when I go to Indiana Beach and ride Galaxy and Tigrr. Two steel coasters a lot older than Vortex. Especially Galaxy.

[CoasterKrazy]

How long do steel coasters typically last? I know wooden ones can last a reallyyyyyy long time. But doesn't the steel in steel coasters start to get old, fatigued, etc to beyond it being able to safely operate?

I spoke with an engineer who worked for Paramount Parks in the 90s, and I believe he said the parks at the time assumed that a steel coaster would come to the end of its profitable lifespan after 12* years. At that point, the coaster was supposed to have paid for itself, but no longer had any kind of significant draw. I do not know, however, how this related to the structual lifespan.

*I had this conversation several years ago, so sadly, I'm pulling this number from a foggy memory.

How long do steel coasters typically last?

From a design perspective, that depends. Assuming steel bridge design and steel coaster design fundamentals are similar (and I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be...) engineers are able to design structural steel members for a given fatigue lifespan. Basically, as long as a member is never subjected to anything more than a certain tensile (pulling) load, the design life is infinite. Theoretically, no matter how many times the member is subjected to a load less than the threshold, it will not fail in fatigue. In order to reduce material costs, however, an engineer can decide what an acceptable number of cycles is based on the client's desired lifespan. If the client only wants the structure to last 20 years, why design it to last forever? So, design based on clients' needs dictates how long a steel structure will last.

This is based on current design standards, however, and I do not know what was used when Vortex was being designed.

[Snowman]

From a design perspective, that depends. Assuming steel bridge design and steel coaster design fundamentals are similar (and I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be...) engineers are able to design structural steel members for a given fatigue lifespan. Basically, as long as a member is never subjected to anything more than a certain tensile (pulling) load, the design life is infinite. Theoretically, no matter how many times the member is subjected to a load less than the threshold, it will not fail in fatigue. In order to reduce material costs, however, an engineer can decide what an acceptable number of cycles is based on the client's desired lifespan. If the client only wants the structure to last 20 years, why design it to last forever? So, design based on clients' needs dictates how long a steel structure will last.

This is based on current design standards, however, and I do not know what was used when Vortex was being designed.

Excellent point! If you watch the support structure of Vortex when a train passes over, there is a lot of movement (which has to put a lot of wear on the steel), but if you watch Diamondback, it's solid as a rock. There seems to be light years difference in the design and technology.

[CoastersRZ]

Actually, how closely have you watched the track on the first drop of Diamondback when a train goes down it? It flexes quite a bit when a train plunges down to the ground. Remember the old saying, if it doesn`t shake, it will break. If a steel structure was designed to not flex, it would then be brittle (and steel is inherently a flexible material), and would break under loading conditions. I could pull out some structures terminology from my structures classes (although most of those pertained to designing beams for buildings, we did discuss things like yield strength, elastic and inelastic beams, moment, inertia, etc.) but there is no need to. Eventually, there will be fatigue on the metal, similar to if you bend a paper clip back and forth enough, it will eventually break in two. The question is, what is the length of that time. And keep in mind, that maintenance can prolong the lifespan (or shorten it as the case may be). Wooden coasters are always in a state of perpetual building, and it is less common for whole sections of steel rides to see similar repairs. However, I`m fairly confident that sections of The Vortex track have been replaced over the years. In fact, several years back, there were some new rails sitting by the first drop on The Vortex. They were visible from The Beast, after leaving the station.

[The Interpreter]

I've always been fascinated by the large stainless steel ball bearings in a socket between the track and the structural support on some B and M coasters. Many of their earlier coasters have many such examples...intended to reduce structural sway...they are fun to look at and to show people who have looked at them but never before actually "seen" them...(in the same way that you never actually "see" models of your own car...until after you buy one, then they are everywhere!)

[KingsIslandReviews]

Vortex - 2035

Diamondback - 2100 (if the park is still there by then)

Invertago - 2018

The Beast- 2089

BLSC - 2045

The Racers-2072(100 years of racing)

Year i kinda give these a while but eh i think it might be likley

[The Interpreter]

Vortex - 2035

Diamondback - 2100 (if the park is still there by then)

Invertago - 2018

The Beast- 2089

BLSC - 2045

The Racers-2072(100 years of racing)

Year i kinda give these a while but eh i think it might be likley

2072 would be 101 years of racing....and its Racer...not Racers...

(The first year is year zero...1972...the second year, 1973 is two years but the first anniversary...2072 would be the 100th anniversary but the 101th year of operation...even some parks screw this up!)

[CoastersRZ]

And in case some were wondering about the connection on B&M coasters that the Interpreter was siting, below is a shot of the corkscrew on Vortex down at Carowinds. Notice how the support attaches to the track.

[Snowman]

I didn't word what I meant correctly. Yes I've seen DB track move with the train, but it's a smooth bend with the weight and after the train passes it gently returns to it's original position. While Vertigo's many supports continue to shake and shudder well after the train goes by. I think that makes more sense regarding the technology advancements and the relationship I was curious about to the expected life span of the coasters.

[KIanatic1975]

All I can say, is that the rides are there now and it is the present, so I'm really not worried about what happens to them in the future. Knowing sooner or later I'll be leaving Ohio.

[CoastersRZ]

Why will you be leaving Ohio? I`m amazed at the amount of people who were classmates of mine in DAAP who could not WAIT to get out of Cincinnati and Ohio. Simply amazes me, because I love Cincinnati and Ohio.

[CoasterKrazy]

It flexes quite a bit when a train plunges down to the ground. Remember the old saying, if it doesn`t shake, it will break.

I didn't word what I meant correctly. Yes I've seen DB track move with the train, but it's a smooth bend with the weight and after the train passes it gently returns to it's original position. While Vertigo's many supports continue to shake and shudder well after the train goes by. I think that makes more sense regarding the technology advancements and the relationship I was curious about to the expected life span of the coasters.

I think the "if it doesn't shake, it'll break" saying is a little misleading. Yes, structures are designed to be ductile (meaning they will flex when necessary) but that doesn't guarantee one way or the other that those deflections will be visible.

Think about Wicked Twister at Cedar Point. When it first opened and the excessive sway of the towers was noticed, "shake or break" was thrown around quite often, some of which I did probably did myself (being a high school student at the time, and having no familiarity with structural engineering at all). Despite that, the ride was retrofitted to go from this to this.