Kentucky Kingdom

[Dieseltech20]

This is, after all, the man who made a small fortune selling the park to Six Flags to start with...

My money is on him doing the exact same thing again if given the chance.

[The Interpreter]

More, including some lawmakers' reactions. Also, Ed Hart has this to say:

... "This has to be a public/private partnership. If you're trying to do without public involvement and put it on private sector, the same thing will happen that happened to Six Flags."...

So, according to him, this park cannot make it without taxpayer backing.

http://www.wave3.com....asp?S=13135108

As stated in an earlier link, he also thinks WITH public backing, this has a "fair shot."

I cannot see this getting off the ground.

[Scott Evans]

As a resident of Kentucky, and a taxpayer I am against this 100%. Sure it would be nice for the park to open and somehow actually MAKE money. Just not for the taxpayers to foot the bill and risk failure. Nothing more than another useless "Bailout" in my mind.

However, being a resident of this state, it will not surprise me AT ALL to see this get approved and the money handed over.

With it having to pass the Legislature and 2011 being the big year in Politics I don't see this getting passed. Take out the tea party, mounting debt, budget shortfalls, job creation, etc... when you have Beshear on one side and Williams on the other its not going to happen with both guys agreeing on a spending issue. If Williams supports it Beshear will veto it and if Beshear supports it Williams will see that it doesn't get through the Senate.

[The Interpreter]

So, two weeks later, no news on Kentucky Kingdom for days.

Why do I suspect that political consultants have advised all involved to hush and keep this fairly under wraps until after the election?

It will be interesting to see if that is indeed the case, or if this proposal will rear its head again right before the election...a rather risky thing to do.

And if those involved do not understand that a bond issue in today's environment will become an immediate political hot potato and election issue, they truly are hopelessly naive....which I truly doubt....well, except for that Fair Board President gentleman....

[sccard01]

So, two weeks later, no news on Kentucky Kingdom for days.

Why do I suspect that political consultants have advised all involved to hush and keep this fairly under wraps until after the election?

It will be interesting to see if that is indeed the case, or if this proposal will rear its head again right before the election...a rather risky thing to do.

And if those involved do not understand that a bond issue in today's environment will become an immediate political hot potato and election issue, they truly are hopelessly naive....which I truly doubt....well, except for that Fair Board President gentleman....

^

So negative. smh

Were not going to hear anything about the park untill october or so. Thats when the proposal will go through. The only time we see political consultants is when Ed talks about the park and the news media's call in political consultants .

Remember, the bond issue is not just for the park, but to bring in money into the state and full time jobs here in louisivlle like said in this article.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20100923/OPINION02/309230025

[The Interpreter]

That's not an article, that's a reader letter...

And NOTHING can happen with this bond issue proposal without legislative approval. And that will NOT be happening the month before the general election, if ever.

Furloughs, a nearly half a BILLION dollar shortfall in Medicaid (and the Kentucky Medicaid chief just resigned amid budget problems), revenue shortfalls, and you think I am negative when I say this proposed plan has virtually no chance. Think what you will about my attitude, I care not. I try to predict things as I see them, not as I would wish them to be.

http://www.lex18.com...budget-problems

[sccard01]

That's not an article, that's a reader letter...

And NOTHING can happen with this bond issue proposal without legislative approval. And that will NOT be happening the month before the general election, if ever.

Furloughs, a nearly half a BILLION dollar shortfall in Medicaid (and the Kentucky Medicaid chief just resigned amid budget problems), revenue shortfalls, and you think I am negative when I say this proposed plan has virtually no chance. Think what you will about my attitude, I care not. I try to predict things as I see them, not as I would wish them to be.

http://www.lex18.com...budget-problems

Reader letter what ever, I was just trying to make a point that the bond issue wouldn't just help Kentucky Kingdom, but help Louisville/Kentucky bring in jobs to hotels, other tourist attractions, construction for revenorating the park, and bring in money to the state.

I know nothing cant happend without the bond issue proposal, I didn't say that and I didn't say they will approve the bond issue a month before the election. Many here in Kentucky belive that the bond will be approve. This is a huge tourist attraction in the state (which used to be #1 btw), and the state needs this park inorder to recieve revenue. Like said before in the news, they don't won't the park to just sit there they want it open.

You predict wrong! Like when you said Ed Hart will never come back to Kentucky Kingdom and you knew him personally and some BS and etc.

[The Interpreter]

Ed Hart hasn't come back to Kentucky Kingdom...stay tuned...

And like any other predictor, I will never be 100 percent accurate....no one is...

I still ask the same question on this as I have from the beginning, what is in this for Ed Hart. I can guarantee it is not nothing.

[sccard01]

Ed Hart hasn't come back to Kentucky Kingdom...stay tuned...

And like any other predictor, I will never be 100 percent accurate....no one is...

I still ask the same question on this as I have from the beginning, what is in this for Ed Hart. I can guarantee it is not nothing.

Ed Hart hasn't come back to Kentucky Kingdom? He has, If he wasn't we wouldn't be seeing him, and he wouldn't be saying hes the owner of the park.

Ed Hart may not won't nothing, but he put up 3 million dollers of his own money. In my pov, Ed just don't want to see a park he created that was once sucessful go under.

[The Interpreter]

At this point, Mr. Hart has not come back to Kentucky Kingdom. He has paid money, which is refundable if this deal does not go through, under the terms of the proposed agreement, according to the State Fair Board president.

Again, stay tuned. This is far from a done deal...

[Truth Seeker]

^Let's not forget what really fuels the amusement park industry, money. If he doesn't get any money he wont do it..

[KIfan1980]

This is a huge tourist attraction in the state (which used to be #1 btw), and the state needs this park inorder to recieve revenue. Like said before in the news, they don't won't the park to just sit there they want it open.

You make a great point that this tourist attraction is beneficial to the state - bringing jobs, visitors, $'s to the area. It's too bad the State Fair Board Chairman didn't recognize this when he refused to re-negotiate the lease with Six Flags. Sure seems to me as if that would have been the better solution for the state.

[The Interpreter]

And come to think of it, if the state needs the park to raise revenue, is that an appropriate Government function? If the park cannot make it in the private sector, is it a wise use of Government credit and funding to operate an amusement park? Is Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom too big to fail and needs rescuing like GM and Chrysler were, but this time by a state government? SIX FLAGS Kentucky Kingdom was a private sector operation, the proposed Ed Hart's Kentucky Kingdom is supposedly owned by the state, operated by the state, leased to Ed Hart, but Ed Hart would have us believe the state gets the revenue and the rides....something doesn't add up here. And if I were Beech Bend or Holiday World or Kings Island, I would be livid that the State of Kentucky was subsidizing my competitor...in Beech Bend's case, using state tax monies paid by Beech Bend itself, in part.

Not to mention that Ed Hart's partner in this operation is Bruce Lunsford, the big time Democratic politician, once the Kentucky Democratic Party treasurer and who ran against Mitch McConnell, and lost.

In Alabama, the state and some counties got together and funded Visionland. It failed. In New York, Playland at Rye is a continual money loser that local politicians vow to close from time to time. These are the only two government run parks in recent memory in the USA.

Then there's Kentucky Kingdom's past. It's failed. Twice already.

I see no prospect of this succeeding.

[TylerRider]

Ed Hart hasn't come back to Kentucky Kingdom...stay tuned...

And like any other predictor, I will never be 100 percent accurate....no one is...

I still ask the same question on this as I have from the beginning, what is in this for Ed Hart. I can guarantee it is not nothing.

Ed Hart hasn't come back to Kentucky Kingdom? He has, If he wasn't we wouldn't be seeing him, and he wouldn't be saying hes the owner of the park.

Ed Hart may not won't nothing, but he put up 3 million dollers of his own money. In my pov, Ed just don't want to see a park he created that was once sucessful go under.

It is esier to raed tihs snenctee tahn yuors. I of cuosre am tlkanig aobut the one in red.

[Truth Seeker]

And come to think of it, if the state needs the park to raise revenue, is that an appropriate Government function? If the park cannot make it in the private sector, is it a wise use of Government credit and funding to operate an amusement park? Is Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom too big to fail and needs rescuing like GM and Chrysler were, but this time by a state government? SIX FLAGS Kentucky Kingdom was a private sector operation, the proposed Ed Hart's Kentucky Kingdom is supposedly owned by the state, operated by the state, leased to Ed Hart, but Ed Hart would have us believe the state gets the revenue and the rides....something doesn't add up here. And if I were Beech Bend or Holiday World or Kings Island, I would be livid that the State of Kentucky was subsidizing my competitor...in Beech Bend's case, using state tax monies paid by Beech Bend itself, in part.

Not to mention that Ed Hart's partner in this operation is Bruce Lunsford, the big time Democratic politician, once the Kentucky Democratic Party treasurer and who ran against Mitch McConnell, and lost.

In Alabama, the state and some counties got together and funded Visionland. It failed. In New York, Playland at Rye is a continual money loser that local politicians vow to close from time to time. These are the only two government run parks in recent memory in the USA.

Then there's Kentucky Kingdom's past. It's failed. Twice already.

I see no prospect of this succeeding.

You have to understand that both times it failed it was under completely different management. Six Flags rarely put anything new, in fact they removed more then they added and still managed to survive for 13 years. The first time Kentucky Kingdom opened it was a small theme park aimed entirely at families. It was also very small totaling at only 9 acres. When Ed ran the park it was extremely successful and was even considered by some to be better than Kings Island. Not only was it putting a large dent in the mid west largest theme park's attendance, it was also causing a big decrease in revenue for Kings Island. As for state funding it's exactly the same as one business investing in another.

[sccard01]

I agree with truth seeker. The park failed twice and was successful with Ed Hart.

This is a huge tourist attraction in the state (which used to be #1 btw), and the state needs this park inorder to recieve revenue. Like said before in the news, they don't won't the park to just sit there they want it open.

You make a great point that this tourist attraction is beneficial to the state - bringing jobs, visitors, $'s to the area. It's too bad the State Fair Board Chairman didn't recognize this when he refused to re-negotiate the lease with Six Flags. Sure seems to me as if that would have been the better solution for the state.

I doubt that. I mean, Do you really think Six Flags closed the park because of parking? I still believe thats a big excuse to close the park. Even the KFEC said the same thing. Isn't Six Flags offering free parking for 2011 anyways?

[sccard01]

And come to think of it, if the state needs the park to raise revenue, is that an appropriate Government function? If the park cannot make it in the private sector, is it a wise use of Government credit and funding to operate an amusement park? Is Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom too big to fail and needs rescuing like GM and Chrysler were, but this time by a state government? SIX FLAGS Kentucky Kingdom was a private sector operation, the proposed Ed Hart's Kentucky Kingdom is supposedly owned by the state, operated by the state, leased to Ed Hart, but Ed Hart would have us believe the state gets the revenue and the rides....something doesn't add up here. And if I were Beech Bend or Holiday World or Kings Island, I would be livid that the State of Kentucky was subsidizing my competitor...in Beech Bend's case, using state tax monies paid by Beech Bend itself, in part.

Not to mention that Ed Hart's partner in this operation is Bruce Lunsford, the big time Democratic politician, once the Kentucky Democratic Party treasurer and who ran against Mitch McConnell, and lost.

In Alabama, the state and some counties got together and funded Visionland. It failed. In New York, Playland at Rye is a continual money loser that local politicians vow to close from time to time. These are the only two government run parks in recent memory in the USA.

Then there's Kentucky Kingdom's past. It's failed. Twice already.

I see no prospect of this succeeding.

GM and Chrysler are businesses. It not your state's number 1 tourist attraction. Kentucky Kingdom used to be Kentucky's #1 tourist attraction.

[KIfan1980]

I doubt that. I mean, Do you really think Six Flags closed the park because of parking? I still believe thats a big excuse to close the park. Even the KFEC said the same thing. Isn't Six Flags offering free parking for 2011 anyways?

I havent heard of SF offering free parking for 2011

Also, if I was you I'd hope that that is the reason they closed the park. You see the other option is that a leaner, low debt, Six Flags decided that there is not a sustainable business model for KK - that doesn't bode well for the single park, high debt, government run proposal.

[sccard01]

Six Flags New England, Over Georgia, St. Louis and more are offering free parking for 2011. It confirms this on each of those parks home pages. It seems like more parks are offering free parking next year like Hopefully Kentucky Kingdom,Kings Island and Six Flags parks .

[The Interpreter]

No. Those Six Flags parks offer free season pass parking on ONE season pass, at that park only, when you buy four season passes now. Not even as generous as the free parking deal with a Kings Island season pass purchased now.

Six Flags parking deals never included passes bought at Kentucky Kingdom, as Kentucky Kingdom did not own its parking lot; the fair board did.

[The Interpreter]

Kentucky Kingdom Developer Wants More Money First:

http://www.fox41.com....asp?S=13223112

Video on right of page...

[Gordon Bombay]

As for state funding it's exactly the same as one business investing in another.

Except one business is funded by the commonwealth taxpayers in a day and age where government spending is a key issue among constituents.

[The Interpreter]

When most businesses need money, they sell stock, borrow money from banks or insurance companies or pension funds, etc. Very few have the luxury of taxpayer backed bonds. And taxpayers apparently have no voice as to who gets those bonds or not...wait, they do. On election day they can vote against those who approve such bonds, if they wish to. And election day is coming the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November. See why I say it is very unlikely anything will happen with this before then?

If this was such a bang up deal, the banks would be lending money. Cedar Fair, for instance, recently refinanced. Mr. Hart says without the state's backing, this project won't go. It needs a public/private partnership, he says.

And oh, yeah...Ed Hart's partner in this transaction is the former treasurer of the Kentucky Democratic party. And former opponent of Senator Mitch McConnell. I'd think that would make this transaction an even more difficult one to sell to the Kentucky General Assembly.

[westcoaster]

Its crazy for private deals, to be controlled by goverment money.

Its a business, why don't mcdonalds mandate that if they build a store 1/2 of it is built by the city they are locating too.

Craziness in deed!

But I hope for the great future of ky kingdom and if it was such a bang up great deal, why not holiday world, or another private individual buy it?

And really what is the 2011 plan a new coaster? and a front gate>

[The Interpreter]

Courier-Journal Editorial: Saving Kentucky Kingdom:

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20100930/OPINION01/309300009

[Dieseltech20]

Lack of rides and such may have been a factor but I believe a certain tragic accident sealed the parks fate.

[Shaggy]

Lack of rides and such may have been a factor but I believe a certain tragic accident sealed the parks fate.

I believe the overall consensus here in Louisville was that it was unclean, unsafe, and attracted a dynamic of teens that were troublesome.

I still stand by my original statement that the closure of KK is not a loss to Louisville. It's a loss to Mr Workman, who just so happens to be good friends with Ed Hart.

[flightoffear1996]

Anyone think if Kentucky Kingdom does open what it means for Kings Island. Bigger better rides, lower food prices to still keep trying draw away from Kentucky Kingdom. Some local competion could be very good for KI

[Dieseltech20]

... dynamic of teens that were troublesome.

My 2009 trip to the State Fair makes that part very believable.

[Shaggy]

Anyone think if Kentucky Kingdom does open what it means for Kings Island. Bigger better rides, lower food prices to still keep trying draw away from Kentucky Kingdom. Some local competion could be very good for KI

I don't think KK is, was, or will be a threat to KI. KI is a "destination park." wheras KK is percived as a local "day" park. It's land-locked, so unless they pull up stakes and re-build it outside of Louisville for $200 Mil, it's not going to evolve into a desitnation. As far as tourists go... KK was a tack-on. Meaning it was something people added when visiting Louisville... and was (IMO) rarely the main draw for out-of-state tourists.

Shaggy