Urgent Care

[markr]

Maybe I am overreacting but I am concerned about a possible safety issue in the queue area for Urgent Scare. This is the attraction in the Action Theatre. While you are in the queue area, haunt people periodically try to scare you. A few of them bang on the hand rails with blunt instruments. I think these blunt instruments are too close to the patrons for comfort. I am afraid that one of these times, they will accidently strike a patron causing serious injury.

Your thoughts?

[Creed Bratton]

This has been done for quite some time, not just this year. I believe that the roamers are instructed to make sure there is a clear distance between the instrument and the patron.

Personally, I like that they do that, especially when I'm not paying attention it scares the crap out of me!

[bkroz]

Maybe I am overreacting but I am concerned about a possible safety issue in the queue area for Urgent Scare. This is the attraction in the Action Theatre. While you are in the queue area, haunt people periodically try to scare you. A few of them bang on the hand rails with blunt instruments. I think these blunt instruments are too close to the patrons for comfort. I am afraid that one of these times, they will accidently strike a patron causing serious injury.

Your thoughts?

Phantom Theater, anyone? I haven't been in Urgent Scare, but if what you say is true, that's something I'd reevaluate if I were in charge. Probably, the assumption is that guests will be scared of the actor approaching and back off, and that the actor will clearly and rationally decide what to do in any given situation. But it's not always easy to see with a mask, or when you're hyped up on adrenaline. So I can see how it's questionable. I don't know what they might be hitting the hand rails with, but regardless I say, "Should it matter?" No matter what the "blunt instrument" is, can a normal, everyday patron visiting the park in June bang it against the handrails? If not, then there's a reason: safety is only one. Maintaining the park is another.

Pretty much the rule I think many parks employ for Halloween is, don't do anything that would seem out of character for any other time of year. Universal's Halloween sticks to the standards they hold all year - an adult, thrill-themed, Hollywood-style, low-gore, high-special-effects, story-driven extravaganza. Disney's Halloween sticks to their standard - family-style, a few "boo's", lots of treats. At Knott's, the park celebrates Halloween by maintaining, to a high degree, ties to its history by providing haunted houses that are "classic" and largely gore-free. At Kings Island, it appears that they engage in events, activities, and situations that would absolutely not be tolerated any other time of the year. For whatever reason, they've come to the conclusion that, at Halloween time, the reputation, repeat visitors, and atmosphere they've worked to create can be radically, drastically changed (I'm not saying for the better or worse, but you must admit that they change) to accommodate a whole new set of values when it comes to gore, entertainment, and care for the park.

Not trying to start a bandwagon of hatred whatsoever. I just wanted to point out that there is a double standard for Halloween behavior in both visitors and employees at Kings Island, and that it's one of the few parks I can think of that changes those standards so drastically when autumn arrives.

[MarketingExpress]

At Kings Island, it appears that they engage in events, activities, and situations that would absolutely not be tolerated any other time of the year. For whatever reason, they've come to the conclusion that, at Halloween time, the reputation, repeat visitors, and atmosphere they've worked to create can be radically, drastically changed (I'm not saying for the better or worse, but you must admit that they change) to accommodate a whole new set of values when it comes to gore, entertainment, and care for the park.

Perhaps you could explain what you mean by this comment by giving specific examples.

[bkroz]

At Kings Island, it appears that they engage in events, activities, and situations that would absolutely not be tolerated any other time of the year. For whatever reason, they've come to the conclusion that, at Halloween time, the reputation, repeat visitors, and atmosphere they've worked to create can be radically, drastically changed (I'm not saying for the better or worse, but you must admit that they change) to accommodate a whole new set of values when it comes to gore, entertainment, and care for the park.

Perhaps you could explain what you mean by this comment by giving specific examples.

Just to preface, there's a difference between role strain, and role conflict. For example, a woman can be a good mother and a full-time employee. She may find role strain, and it may be hard to meet the requirements of both at all times, but it's entirely possible. Role conflict is when two roles and the standards attached to each are in direct opposition, and society typically finds that one cannot be the case while the other is the case, such as a woman being a good mother and a drug-dealer.

For example, (and I don't want to beat a dead horse, and I don't have the problems with it that some people here have), Midget Wrestling. For Universal's Halloween entertainment, they have the wildly popular Bill & Ted's Excellent Halloween Adventure. It has a bit more language and innuendos than shows during the regular season, but it's really not all that different from Beetlejuice's Graveyard Review, and it's entirely "in character" for Universal. It's expected, and it conforms nicely with what they do the rest of the year. Sure it causes a bit of "strain" with the family-market that they sometimes seek, but it's simply strain.

Kings Island, meanwhile, absolutely thrives on promising "family entertainment, family entertainment, family entertainment." Shows like "Hot Blooded" and "Dead Awakening" are entirely appropriate for the event, because they play on Kings Island's commitment to singing, dancing, and pure talent, and pair them with the slightly more risque language and costumes. That's fine! But midget wrestling is almost contradictory to the norms and values they commit to during the rest of the year. I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with midget wrestling, just that it conflicts with what Kings Island tries to display itself as most of the time. To market yourself as a family park that values entertainment, and then to create an almost exclusively gory Halloween event featuring "midget wrestling?" Those are two conflicting roles. I feel as though there must be at least some folks out there who think, "Gee, midget wrestling? What happened to the fun & only, and being so proud of Planet Snoopy?" Not that those folks will absolutely cut all ties with Kings Island or talk down about it to their friends the way some here seem to think they might, but it's probably going through someone's mind, right?

See also, the gore & violence in most houses, and the sex in others. It's out of character for a park like Kings Island. Universal doesn't do extreme, gross-out gore. Busch parks don't do intense, overbearing violence. Merlin Parks, and most other Cedar Fair parks don't either. Most of those parks (and others that come immediately to mind) use their boo event to focus on history and primal fears like spiders, snakes, "real" ghosts (not monsters), darkness, confusion, and immersion. The "blunt instruments" in this thread are yet another example. I'm not trying to enflame this or start an emotional riot, but that admittedly is a small risk to the patrons. What happens when a finger gets whacked? Is risking damage to park & customer worth it? Apparently, someone thinks so. But if I can't enter the park with a baseball bat and take a few good swings at the handrails, why can an employee do it just because it's Halloween time? If I can't do it during the normal year, why not? For patron safety, and so that I don't damage the handrails, right? Are neither of those quite as important during autumn as they are during the spring or summer?

I'm not saying any of the things I've mentioned are right or wrong, marketable or unmarketable, good or bad, profitable or unprofitable... Just that it's a stark and drastic change from what's accepted the rest of the year, and most parks I can think of aren't willing to re-evaluate their standards for most every single aspect of park operations just because of a holiday...

[SOB_TOM]

I agree that their standards do change during October, however they advertise as such, therefor those who are going to the event know what to expect. If the standards changed with no prompting, I can see where this could get worrisome, however the GP is warned ahead of time.

I am of the belief that during haunt season, anything and everything goes, within reason (I.E. no touching, real dismemberment, injury, ect.) If you go to a haunt, or an event that is advertised as a haunt event, you should expect to be scared by any means necessary, as long as it meets the requirements above. The Midget Wrestling does not bother me one bit. Did it shock me that KI was offering this? Slightly, but again, its a haunt event, and those are entertainers that sign up to do what they do.

Now to address the original issue. As a haunt actor, I have been in several scenes where you are given something to bang close to guests. The first thing they tell you to do is LOOK before you bang. If I am around other actors, I will go over with them on where I am going to bang the stick/branding iron, ect. while groups are not coming through so they know to stay out of the way. With guests, you can't go over that information, so you scare them back (natural tendency being that you curl up when scared, therefor removing fingers from where you are swinging,) and if they do not move, you hit somewhere where it would not be natural to put a hand or foot. For example, the vertical portions of the queue rails between the two horizontal bars is where I would aim. That is not a natural hand position, or foot position, and would generally be open to banging. I would still look before hitting it of course, but that is the safest place to hit. I'm sure those training the actors have pointed this out.

[bkroz]

Thanks for filling us in on that. I hope there was at least some form of "training" or rules about the action. My point was that it's just as shocking that it can be done from a maintenance standpoint. As Terpy has said, when Phantom Theater became a haunt, there were live actors scattered throughout who liked to use just their bare hands to bang on the omnimover vehicles. That stopped pretty quickly, even though guest safety was never in question. The problem, I should hope, was that you can't go around hitting things that you expect to continue to work. So to me, it's good to know that there is a "procedure" if you will for scare-actors using these instruments (though even that can fail, you must admit, with masks obscuring view, "tough guys" who move towards the scare and not away, etc). But just as important to the park, I would think, is that there are branding irons and whatever else being smacked onto handrails...

That will show up given time - dents, chipped paint, scratches... And I suppose my point is, if *I* were caught hitting a branding iron against a handrail and denting it, I would (in a world of ideal security) be escorted from the park without refund. It just surprises me that that sort of behavior is tolerable and even encouraged from employees because of the season. I understand it's done with the utmost care for the guest. But it's still damaging park property that will continue to be in the public eye long after Haunt is over, and gnarled, dented, broken things are the "norm."

[SOB_TOM]

However, as an actor you use restraint. I am 6`6 and pretty well built, if I swing full speed into anything, its going to dent/break/ect. So I don't. To get a bang out of two items you don't have to swing hard, just make solid contact, like baseball. Also, certain materials will dent easier than others. Those handrails are made out of steel. If you take a PVC pipe and swing it against those rails, the rail is going to be fine. The PVC might not be, but the rails will be fine. Most likely, they are swinging something similar, where the material being swung is the softer material, causing no damage to the rails. I doubt they are worried about a pipe, or whatever is being swung.

As for the live actors in Dark Ride, that was a safety issue. The actors were taken out because even while belted to the wall, there was a possibility of being caught on the cars and being yanked down the track, which would have been really bad and deadly.

[DeLorean Rider]

...Universal doesn't do extreme, gross-out gore. Busch parks don't do intense, overbearing violence.

I'm sorry but, have you ever been to one of these events?!?!

I went to BOTH last year. Halloween Horror nights I went to several times. Don't go to extremes?! Have you been in Meets Meats?! Have you seen their scare zones?! There's a reason why universal is considered such a good halloween attraction. It's because they DO take it to extremes. In their case it's totally justifyable because they're a destination park not a regional park. People go out of their way to plan a trip around Horror nights because of how extreme it is. They sell shots of alcohol in the lines for their haunts. They sell alcohol in blood bags, test tubes, syringes, and more. All of which are being sold by dead nurses and dead prostitutes depending on the area of the park.

The Busch parks are no different. Extremely graphic.

I'm not saying any of it is wrong; clearly, I went several times. But I definitely disagree with what you're saying.

[LongliveKingsCobra]

Listen to SOB TOM he really knows how to "Brand" The truth to things.

Cobra hoping he might get the refrence to a certain event this past sunday.

[CedarPointer]

why can an employee do it just because it's Halloween time? If I can't do it during the normal year, why not? For patron safety, and so that I don't damage the handrails, right? Are neither of those quite as important during autumn as they are during the spring or summer?

Uh, because they're told to by their employer?

[LongliveKingsCobra]

^HAHAHAHAH

ANYWAYS I am more that 99.98999% sure that Supervisors for each haunt tell people what they can/ can't do. As long as guest does not get hurt I see no problem with it.

As to your comment about a guest swining a blunt object at a pole...well this is apples to cumquats. A general guest would just swing blindly and wildly, the haunt people are 1) Trained for their posistion. 2) Trained on how to use such objects if they use them. 3) If they are swining something around they most likely will not use a mask, or something that coveres up their feild of vision in the first place.

[BavarianBeatle]

Another "safety" thread...sigh! I couldn't imagine going through life in constant fear of every remote possibility of being injured. To me, that kind of a life would be a living Hades! Every time I read one of these theads, I can't help but think of the mice in The Tale of Despereaux.

[LongliveKingsCobra]

Wonderful! I really liked that post Sir.

[RingMaster]

...Universal doesn't do extreme, gross-out gore. Busch parks don't do intense, overbearing violence.

I'm sorry but, have you ever been to one of these events?!?!

I went to BOTH last year. Halloween Horror nights I went to several times. Don't go to extremes?! Have you been in Meets Meats?! Have you seen their scare zones?! There's a reason why universal is considered such a good halloween attraction. It's because they DO take it to extremes. In their case it's totally justifyable because they're a destination park not a regional park. People go out of their way to plan a trip around Horror nights because of how extreme it is. They sell shots of alcohol in the lines for their haunts. They sell alcohol in blood bags, test tubes, syringes, and more. All of which are being sold by dead nurses and dead prostitutes depending on the area of the park.

The Busch parks are no different. Extremely graphic.

I'm not saying any of it is wrong; clearly, I went several times. But I definitely disagree with what you're saying.

Except with Universal, not every house is dedicated to blood and gore. Usually, one house is solely devoted to being the "gore house", and the rest have small amounts of it or pale to that particular maze. The house in question you brought up, Leave It To Cleaver, was the gore house that year, and that particular location (the Earthquake/Disaster extended queue) usually houses the gory, bloody houses (Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Doomsday, RUN Hostile Territory, and this year's Zombiegeddon, just to name a few).

And Universal's Halloween Horror Nights is not considered a good event simply because they take it to extremes. They're good because they create groundbreaking haunted houses. They make environments feel real and they can put you into the world they have created for you. And they also create characters and icons that can truly scare the living daylights out of you (Bloody Mary is my personal fave).

[Browntggrr]

I just wanted to point out that there is a double standard for Halloween behavior in both visitors and employees at Kings Island, and that it's one of the few parks I can think of that changes those standards so drastically when autumn arrives.

I see Halloween time as an opportunity to enjoy/ role-play/ experience something that cannot be experienced during any other time of year.

Can that be considered a double standard? Sure. Is it acceptable in July? No. Is it acceptable in October, IMO I don't see why not.

[IndyGuy4KI]

I just wanted to point out that there is a double standard for Halloween behavior in both visitors and employees at Kings Island, and that it's one of the few parks I can think of that changes those standards so drastically when autumn arrives.

I see Halloween time as an opportunity to enjoy/ role-play/ experience something that cannot be experienced during any other time of year.

Can that be considered a double standard? Sure. Is it acceptable in July? No. Is it acceptable in October, IMO I don't see why not.

I agree Brown, I have not made it to the park yet this month, but from what I have been hearing from KIC'ers at haunt so far is things like park is packed, Beast queue totally full, busy place but worth it. KI reports standing room only for HPB show the other night. It sounds like KI has a winner and it seems it is just some enthusiasts that are having issues with things, but not the GP or it would not be so successful!

I do understand markr's concern about the safety, hopefully his concern will not be a real issue.

[TromaKing]

I just wonder,

Do the people that cry and moan about KI going extreme during Halloween cry and complain to retail stores that go Christmas crazy? Personally I don't see a difference in the 2 events, as it is getting into the spirit of the season.

KI seems to take great pride in keep HH what it is. What is it you ask? Well from open till around 7PM its family friendly with lots of things to do for the kiddies. Then as advertised come 7PM The Beasts are unleashed. It transforms from kid friendly to an adult oriented event. Hmmmmm don't Dave and Busters do something similar to this for adults at night?

[wv_ki_fan]

the way i see it..if you dont like what they do..dont go.

[Snowman]

I just wonder,

Do the people that cry and moan about KI going extreme during Halloween cry and complain to retail stores that go Christmas crazy? Personally I don't see a difference in the 2 events, as it is getting into the spirit of the season.

Are you kidding me? Have you never seen those terrifying little elves with their pointed shoes and evil little hats!

Don't get me started about the fat dude trying to get kids to sit on his lap.

It's just SICK I tell ya.

[The Interpreter]

And a few years back, Cedar Fair tried to combine the two at KI's boo event...that lasted a very short time...due to the many, many complaints received.

[RingMaster]

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, that wasn't Cedar Fair that did Holiday Horror; I believe that was an in-house gag done because Cedar Fair was the one that canceled Winterfest in the first place.

Besides, if it was Cedar Fair that did it, Holiday Horror would've remained up the entire event and possibly for a second season, seeing as how they like to proudly declare that nothing is off limits.

[The Interpreter]

Anything that happens at KI happens with Cedar Fair's implicit approval...if Cedar Fair corporate (or, more importantly, Mr. R. Kinzel) disapproves, it disappears at once. Kind of like animals in a...oh, never mind.