Fast Lane

[Squirlz]

I beilieve so. I think they sell it online for a convience factor...But as GYK and I said, I'd hold off to see if there a tons of lines (long waits as well), you may just end up wasting your money....

I think we'll do that. We'll have 2 hours to see how things go before the FL window opens anyway. Molly has been having some hip pain so any time not in a line is valuable. And it's "found money"!

[LongliveKingsCobra]

However, I am not 100% sure if it is avail. at the park, you might wanna go ahead and call the park tomorrow and ask...

[DaveStroem]

^One bad experience you had at Six Flags can hardly be considered evidence as to how this will be come Saturday or even next month.

I never said it was a bad experience. I was the one that passed the same family over and over and over and over again. I am sure this also happened at SFGAM when we were there riding Raging Bull many times in a row. This was with a supposed time limited gold flash pass. With KIs program, you could just run around as fast as you wanted too.

[bkroz]

Then I guess it's up to us to scowl and glare and maybe even mumble something sassy under our breath as they pass time and time and time again, marathoning on Backlot Stunt Coaster. Again, enthusiasts and those who are at the park daily and enjoy things like marathoning on Diamondback's ERT are not who this pass is aimed at. It's at people who only visit once or twice a year. These people, I imagine, are more interested in seeing the whole park, and it may not even occur to them that they can theoretically ride over and over and over and over again. "Normal" folks don't necessarily want to ride The Beast 20+ times in a row...

The point of the pass is to help infrequent visitors get the most out of their limited time at the park. Sure people can use it however they want. But the fact of the matter is, a group of 13 year old 'ride warriors' isn't gonna get their parents to shell out this kind of cash just so they can ride Diamondback 100 times in a day.

[BoddaH1994]

So why are we not seeing this feature at Cedar Point now?

That might be a park I would pay $50 to jump into lines for rides.

They have a set of big rides that I am sure people would jump at this deal for.

You know, you brought up an interesting thought for me. When I first heard the price, I kind of laughed. Now, come to think of it, if I went to Cedar Point (a park in which I'm not a regular) and it was busy, the $50 wouldn't really be out of the question. Not saying I'd hop on it, but it would at least be tempting.

You have to realize that things like the VIP tours and Fast Passes aren't geared toward people like us. If the line for Diamondback is two hours... hell, I'll just come back tomorrow... many don't have that luxary.

As far as the "moral issue" of skipping the line... meh... it's not that big of a deal. I can tell you that I know what the "limited availability" means when they say it, and the number is reasonably low.

For those of you who were wondering, I put my ear to the ground on Tuesday and found out how many they sold. It was actually a pretty reasonable amount considering that the park was absolutely dead. Like it or not, this program is going to work.

[bkroz]

BUT, do those people who bought it on Tuesday when the park was dead regret it? And will they take to Facebook, Twitter, and phone calls to friends to recommend Kings Island's Fast Lane, or will they say they wish they hadn't wasted their money? If the park really was "absolutely dead," (and by that I'm imagining 15 minutes or so for Diamondback, Beast, and Drop Zone, with everything else 10 minutes or less) then maybe they left with a sense of "We really wasted our money with that."

I don't know, but maybe!

I don't debate the morality of the line skipping pass' existence. But I do feel it's a little shady that the park even bothers to sell it during the week (or that they maintain the $50 price). Even worse, I fear they may try to get people to buy this next April or May, when they know it's not worth the same price as it might be on a Saturday in July. I get that they're a business, but I can't help but feel for the guest relations staff who have to parrot "no refunds" to groups that spent big bucks on this pass in advance, only to find 5 minute waits around the park.

[Gordon Bombay]

I think it's worth it alone for lines like Diamondback, Firehawk and Flight of Fear. Diamondback goes back and forth, but Firehawk and FOF typically all have long lines during the week.

[Avatar]

I agree with BoddaH that a Speed Lane of some sort is here to stay and quite possibly it would have never left if it was not pushed out after the last ownership change. I also think that the last time Kings Island had the speed lanes that it was fairly new and people had stronger opinions about it then as opposed to now after they have used it or gotten used to it in other parks. I see both sides and honestly may even use it if the opportunity comes about that makes it worth my while, but on the other hand the selfish side of me knows I will loose more time over the years of visits that I will save in the once or twice use I would get out of it. I do feel the extra wait will be minimal in most cases.

I think it would be great if this conversation would move more in the direction in how KI could make it better for both sides of the queue. Like what rides should be included or taken away from th system to include shows and waterpark attractions. Also how maybe some seats of certain attractions should be used for this or limiting the number of Speed Lane users that can board on a certain train or cycle of a attraction.

[LongliveKingsCobra]

Well Speaking of that Jessie, they very well could make a BB Fast Lane for that side of the park for a lesser price of maybe 25-30 bucks? The only problem is where would that specific line go? They can't go up the exit , So I guess that would be the logistics problem of having a Fast Lane in BB... However I feel like the park could sell those as well. Sometimes those lines are long!

[Bennett]

BUT, do those people who bought it on Tuesday when the park was dead regret it? And will they take to Facebook, Twitter, and phone calls to friends to recommend Kings Island's Fast Lane, or will they say they wish they hadn't wasted their money? If the park really was "absolutely dead," (and by that I'm imagining 15 minutes or so for Diamondback, Beast, and Drop Zone, with everything else 10 minutes or less) then maybe they left with a sense of "We really wasted our money with that."

I don't know, but maybe!

I don't debate the morality of the line skipping pass' existence. But I do feel it's a little shady that the park even bothers to sell it during the week (or that they maintain the $50 price). Even worse, I fear they may try to get people to buy this next April or May, when they know it's not worth the same price as it might be on a Saturday in July. I get that they're a business, but I can't help but feel for the guest relations staff who have to parrot "no refunds" to groups that spent big bucks on this pass in advance, only to find 5 minute waits around the park.

We were openly mocking the ones who bought them yesterday...everything in the park was esssentially a walk on...5 minute wait for DB, walk on Beast, one ride cycle wait for WindSeeker, one cycle wait for Drop Tower, etc. Not a ton of them, but saw enough of them on to really question some people and their sanity...though, most I saw with it on had park maps with them.

Talked to a couple folks working DB, they said openly "Please go complain to management, this is the stupidest thing they have ever done"

[MarketingExpress]

Talked to a couple folks working DB, they said openly "Please go complain to management, this is the stupidest thing they have ever done"

What exactly would one be complaining about...sounds like most rides had very short waits and the park made some easy money on their new system.

Sounds like some employees need to watch what they say to guests about the new system. They may not agree with management decisions, but you don't complain to the customer about it, you talk to your managers about it.

[Rutgerskev]

If the increased revenue brings new rides or themes I'll be in support of this move. However the Capitolist in me doesn't think this will happen.

[RingMaster]

I don't debate the morality of the line skipping pass' existence. But I do feel it's a little shady that the park even bothers to sell it during the week (or that they maintain the $50 price). Even worse, I fear they may try to get people to buy this next April or May, when they know it's not worth the same price as it might be on a Saturday in July. I get that they're a business, but I can't help but feel for the guest relations staff who have to parrot "no refunds" to groups that spent big bucks on this pass in advance, only to find 5 minute waits around the park.

If I see people with a Fast Pass the first and last full week the park is open next season, I'm going to slap each and every one of them silly. With kids still in school, absolutely NO ONE is in the park, and one can get all of the coasters done - TWICE - in an hour.

[Bennett]

Talked to a couple folks working DB, they said openly "Please go complain to management, this is the stupidest thing they have ever done"

What exactly would one complaining about...sounds like most rides had very short waits and the park made some easy money on their new system.

Sounds like some employees need to watch what they say to guests about the new system. They may not agree with management decisions, but you don't complain to the customer about it, you talk to your managers about it.

There was nothing to complain about...just passing on what two folks said to me. Came about because, after 7pm, when the Fast Lane was over, I asked if the lane was a single rider only line again, as I was by myself at the time. That is when I was told that it would not be single rider line ever again...and to "please go complain to management", begging me to go find someone to voice my displeasure. I didn't really care, was just asking.

Did notice, though, that the DB was going out with 4-8 empty seats per car, every time, though I was only in line for 5-10 minutes.

I can imagine that this will become a problem on a sweltering hot Saturday...I don't know that we've heard the last of it.

The only thing that I could see was blatant stupidity on the consumers part, and blatant gouging by Cedar Fair in actually selling people $50 useless wristbands on a dead Weds.

[afkifan]

Did notice, though, that the DB was going out with 4-8 empty seats per car, every time, though I was only in line for 5-10 minutes.

I can imagine that this will become a problem on a sweltering hot Saturday...I don't know that we've heard the last of it.

Lucky me! I'm unfortunate enough that what will likely be my only trip to KI this year, will be the particular sweltering hot Saturday that is the first one with this new system in place. I won't be able to compare to how things were earlier in the season, but I'll keep my eyes open and see how things are moving.

[frisbeefan]

If this system is going to become a mainstay, it would be interesting if KI lowers the price on non-peak days like Tues-Thurs and in April, May and October . While I understand some people aren't fond of these programs, I think they offer a nice option for people who are visiting just once or twice a year and want to enjoy all the park has to offer without having to rush around.

For me personally, the Express Pass, was great in Universal. Since I don't make it to Florida too often I wanted to make the most of the experience. I had plenty of time to enjoy what both parks had to offer and still have enough time to enjoy most every attraction with a 10 minute wait or less.

[MarketingExpress]

The only thing that I could see was blatant stupidity on the consumers part, and blatant gouging by Cedar Fair in actually selling people $50 useless wristbands on a dead Weds.

Who is at fault when a customer goes to get their car washed and it's forecasted to rain that same day. Does the car wash owe it to the customer to advise them of the impending rain later that day before allowing them to get their car washed? Shouldn't the owner of the car have already looked into that before making the decision to pay for a car wash?

There is a certain level of responsibility required on the part of the consumer. In this case, I don't see it as unreasonable for a guest to walk around or ride a few rides to guage how the lines are moving and then make the decision whether to buy the pass or not.

[Vortex]

How hard would it be to make the Fast Lane line a single rider only line again after 7? I would cost the park nothing and make everyone happy.

[afkifan]

If this system is going to become a mainstay, it would be interesting if KI lowers the price on non-peak days like Tues-Thurs and in April, May and October . While I understand some people aren't fond of these programs, I think they offer a nice option for people who are visiting just once or twice a year and want to enjoy all the park has to offer without having to rush around.

For me personally, the Express Pass, was great in Universal. Since I don't make it to Florida too often I wanted to make the most of the experience. I had plenty of time to enjoy what both parks had to offer and still have enough time to enjoy most every attraction with a 10 minute wait or less.

I agree... I used their pass once when we just had 1 day to get through both US and IoA about 3 years ago. If you only have a day, have to be there on a crowded day and want to make it through everything, it does have some value. I'm not sure how I feel about the unlimited use for 7 hours factor of the one that is being implemented at KI, but it is new, and hopefully there will be a learning curve and tweaks will be made if this is something they decide to keep.

I'll be honest, when I saw this come out, I seriously considered paying the $50 being that I'll be there on a Saturday and probably on my only trip of the season. I probably won't buy it, but I think if you have 1 day to go and it is crowded $50 might not be that bad of a deal to ensure short waits to get through everything.

[Avatar]

Welcome to KICentral afkifan. Sounds like you plan on going to Kings Island this Saturday. If you do I hope you enjoy your visit and manage to stay cool.

I would like to ask you to do something for us here if you would like and it would be appreciated by many here. When/if you go Saturday could you report back to us on how/if the new Speed Lane affected you in waiting if at all. You have a unique opportunity to give us some great feedback as you say this may be your only visit this year to kings Island. I am not asking you to go out of your way or to alter you visit in any way but to just give us a unbiased report after your visit to Kings Island. Sometimes us members here tend to bring in our biased views on a subject then exaggerate in our post. It would be of great interest to me as I know others would be interested as well to hear about how the Speed Lane did/did not affect you while waiting in line for a Speed Lane attraction. If it affected your enjoyment or even if you noticed a difference. The thing to keep in mind if you do report back to us is to make sure you go into it with a open mind with no biased or preconceived opinions on the Speed Lane.

I wrote this after your first response about 4 posts back. I see now that you may consider in paying the $50.00 to try out the Speed Lane if it is too busy. If you do please report back on how that worked for you. But above all else please have a great time and again welcome to KICentral.

[Tanna]

How hard would it be to make the Fast Lane line a single rider only line again after 7? I would cost the park nothing and make everyone happy.

You seem to forget the rampant animal confusion witnessed in crowd situations by primates.

If the "Fast Pass" lane were converted to single rider after a particular time, people would look at the line the same way they would look at a darkened cashier's light in a grocery store, while the cashier is checking out her last costumer of the day.

"Mus' still b open." And they pile their things on the conveyer belt.

Fast passers would see that one lone individual in their line, and, looking at the clock, realizing that the FastPass closes at seven, would pile into the single user line anyway, over the top of the one lone single user, in their mad effort to get there first. Because it's their right, past seven or not, or so they believe. They will mistakenly believe that the ride operator has not realized the time, or, that the time limit doesn't apply to them. Or any other rationalization or excuse to get what they want. Because they are human, and they think they are special.

I used to work in a deli in a grocery store. the Deli closed at ten. At ten o'clock, I used to see the store customers as raptors. I would have to duck down under the counter in the dark, to clean and to check inventory. If they don't see me move, maybe they won't barge up to the counter and....

Drat. "M'a'm, I'm sorry, we're closed."

"Oh, you can wait on me. There's no one else, it's just a small order, besides,....." and on go the justifications as to why the customer was special, and the laws of time didn't apply to her. It happens all the time.

To Paraphrase Crow T. Robot: "I'm bitter."

[Vortex]

I understand some people will get confusion if the Fast Lane becomes a single rider line. How about just turn DB line back seeing that it had one not to long ago.

[standbyme]

Tanna...that is one brilliant post, why am I not surprised that you are a MSTie?!

I also work retail...I can't count how many times I am in the store after closing counting out, doors locked and only one dim light on and someone will still come and tug on the door...and when I look over they give me a look like...hey, your door is stuck!

[TheLip2]

And please please please consider: Disney's system is very nice, but it is not free. A one day ticket to a Disney park will cost you $85.00 plus tax, and if you think that the Fastpass system isn't folded into that, you're crazy.

Nothing in life IS free...but the Fast Pass cost is included in the ticket price...just as is the cost of the rides, the landscaping, the light bulbs on Main Street...

From the park's financial point of view, this system works. And while the image of two or three (or even ten) people cutting you in line feels very unfair (and in fact may be very unfair), the fact is that those three people will hardly make a difference in your real park experience, and at most you may be delayed one or two trains. Diamondback holds 32 riders. I doubt 32 people will even buy this pass on any given day (if they did, the park would make $1600, by the way), but if they did and all 32 of them cut you in line for Diamondback, you'd have to wait ONE additional train (which is, what one extra minute based on the dispatch rate?) Consider, if 40 people cut you for Drop Zone (which, again, I doubt 40 people will even have this pass on any given day, much less all be at Drop Zone at the same time) - you will wait one extra cycle. Just one. Would that really ruin your day?

My main complaint is the principle of the whole thing...not whether I will even notice...with that said, I have read your calculations...but you seem to be overlooking the obvious. If someone spends $50.00 for one of these passes you would assume they are going to want to get their moneys worth and keep riding and riding. How many times do you think someone could keep getting back in line over and over while someone is waiting 45 minutes for Diamondback? I would also assume that not too many people are going to travel a great distance by themselves and so that means they would each have one of these fast passes and be riding together...the numbers would add up faster than you think.

Like I have said, with me it is more of the principle of the whole thing.

I am not going to debate this much further, but I will tell you something that happened while I was in the park this Tuesday. Whitewater Canyon about a 20 minute wait . . . we get to the front and they ask how many . . . we answer 3 and I eyeball the next boat. Get ready to walk over there and we get stopped. I said, "Did something happpen on their ride or do you let people go more than once now?" Reply, "They have fastpass wristbands and they wanted to go again." ME: "So they can go as many times as they want and not get off?" They said, "Yes."

[LongliveKingsCobra]

I see no problem witht that, I mean WWC has many cars...or boats...rafts? Either way, 1 boat full of those people woln't hurt anything...I spose the problem does get a little out of hand if there were 10 cars/boats/rafts of FL people....

[bkroz]

Especially odd since Wild Water Canyon is not a Fast Lane ride...

As can be expected, it looks like one of the main problems with this Fast Lane thing is going to be the lack of training. More than likely, the employees do not know the basics -

• Do Fast Lane users have to get off, or can they just ride again and again?
  
• Which rides accept Fast Lane?
  
• Who is prioritized when there are folks in the Fast Lane and regular queue?
  
• Must the Fast Lane be emptied before guests in the regular queue can get on, or is it a balance that makes sure both lines are tended to sufficiently?
  
• Is the point of Fast Lane to have NO WAIT, or to REDUCE the wait (that is to say, do they automatically get on the next cycle, or might they have to wait for a moment?)
  

The seasonal employees and attendants should know the answer to ALL these questions. They may have been as surprised by the announcement as us, and I find it completely believable that they came into work and were told by their coworkers that they would begin a new front of the line program today, and to let folks in line A in before line B.

I think it's possible that these folks on Wild Water Canyon got an extra ride, and I think it was either because the employees didn't even know if their ride was Fast Lane friendly, or that they didn't know how to tell them that their $50 pass wasn't good for that ride. After all, $50 and one of the park's longest waits isn't covered? I'd be angry... Perhaps the employee just gave them an extra ride instead of dealing with it (which again, isn't fair or right, but if they don't know all the answers, how can more be expected?)

[LongliveKingsCobra]

I was thinking that also....made up story?

[TheLip2]

I think the system would be kinda useless to be free for a business standpoint. Kings Island is looking for revenue and this is a easy way to find it. I think this will in turn help the park as the money can be used for additions or improving of the guest experience. I believe this could also bring some people in to Kings Island for people that want to ride a lot but little time, compared to other parks for the persons drivable distance. You guys might think I'm crazy but some people will LOVE this small improvement/ disimprovement however you like to look it. With every discesion some people are going to happy and some will be mad, but that's just how it goes. It's impossible to make everyone happy, but it's not hard to boost the amount of peoples enjoyment through small things like this.

Hope that's not confusing

-MagmMForce247

A Disney type system would be useless? As sharp and succesfull as Disney parks are you think that they did something that was useless to them from a business standpoint? BOTH systems create revenue and value for the parks. Disney creates value by increasing and bettering the guest experience at no cost to the guest. This promotes return visits, loyalty, image, etc. Their system also allows the guests to do other things besides stand in line . . . like play games, eat or shop or ride other rides. At the and of the day it is VERY DIFFICULT to know how much extra revenue the park realizes because of these intangible, hard to measure benefits. Most guests love it, few complain about it.

Kings Island's system simply increases their revenue. At the end of the day they pretty much know how much money they made off of it. Some of the other things come into play as discussed above, but to a much smaller extent because the people that benefit is a very small number of people. The parks SEES and can quantify the economic benefit. They do not, however, in my opinion account for the problems it causes with negative feelings and image from the guests who cannot afford the perk.

The bottom line is always . . . well . . . the bottom line. Disney promotes guest experience, image and customer satisfaction as top priority and they see it as the best way to make money by promoting top notch service and high quality and value. They have a higher gate price, but reasonable food and other items. Cedar Fair seems to be focused on gate receipts and how much cash is piled up at the end of the day. Maybe they should focus less on making money today so that they would make more money tomorrow?

[bkroz]

^

I can't possibly explain this any more than so many here already have. Disney's system is NOT FREE. It costs a LOT to buy a half-dozen machines to place at the entrance to each ride. It costs to keep those machines filled with paper and ink. It costs to build second queue lines for each ride. It costs to hire employees to staff the secondary lines and to hang around the machines to help people who are confused. You DO pay for Disney's FastPass system. It is $85.00 to get into a Disney park. I don't know how to make that many any more sense. It is $85.00. If you think that doesn't include those machines and that extra staffing and the computer system to distribute return times throughout the park, you need to reevaluate your understanding of that system.

To employ a free system at Kings Island would be absolutely ridiculous, because the daily price of admission / price of season passes would need to rise to meet those additional expenditures. That's all well and good on a Saturday in July. But would you agree to pay $70+ to enter Kings Island in April? May? A weekday in June? August? Regardless, you would have to. Disney can afford to employ such a system because it is used every day of the week, all months of the year. At Kings Island, the waits are usually around 10-15 minutes, and even on the busiest Saturdays in July (of which, by the way, there are never more than five), the busiest rides (Beast, Diamondback, Flight of Fear, and Firehawk) hang around an hour in the late afternoon. Only on those days would a "free" FastPass even be worth the price to the park and consumer.

Disney Parks and Resorts is an arm of a multi-billion dollar corporation whose parks are worldwide destinations open 365 days a year. Their per-cap, in-park spending supports itself, because their food is reasonably priced and their merchandise promotes memories of beloved characters and family get togethers, and has more than XXL t-shirts. Cedar Fair is a struggling, publicly-owned regional park owner who was this close to selling out for just over $11.00 a share a few months ago. Something like 40% of Kings Island's visitorship is season pass-holders who see a crowded parking lot and think, "Eh, we'll come back tomorrow." The two are about as "apples and oranges" as you can get. We'd like to promote Disney as this benevolent, loving, plush family-run business who generously gives all its visitors to chance to use its FastPass system and kindly promotes their quaint and tidy dining services by doing so. They are a business, as well, and they try to make as much money as they can.

Disney 1-day ticket without Park Hopper (85.00) + FastPass (0.00) = $85.00

Kings Island 1-day ticket (35.99) + Fast Lane (50.00) = $85.99

And with Kings Island's system, there is no waiting between attractions, no return times, etc. and the park makes real, solid, measurable profit, not idealized, dreamy, "I'm sure they'll use the free time to buy a soufflé" profit. And while Disney does provide a FAR different experience, Kings Island has about 11 - 13 more roller coasters than your typical Disney Park. Again, apples and oranges, but if you must compare them than do so realistically.

If Kings Island's Fast Lane doesn't make them money (which would be near impossible since again, it is close to 100% profit), it will quietly disappear. And if it sticks around, you can woefully thank it for our next large addition and general maintenance.

GYK, normally level-headed and patient, but sick to death of people not taking the time to consider the costs, benefits, and consequences of this system from a logical point of view. Does Cedar Fair like its money? Hell yes. Is this is a good way to get it? You bet. And will your 1 - 2 train additional wait time eventually lead to a fantastic addition to the park? Yep.

[Avatar]

A Disney type system would be useless? As sharp and succesfull as Disney parks are you think that they did something that was useless to them from a business standpoint? BOTH systems create revenue and value for the parks. Disney creates value by increasing and bettering the guest experience at no cost to the guest. This promotes return visits, loyalty, image, etc. Their system also allows the guests to do other things besides stand in line . . . like play games, eat or shop or ride other rides. At the and of the day it is VERY DIFFICULT to know how much extra revenue the park realizes because of these intangible, hard to measure benefits. Most guests love it, few complain about it.

Kings Island's system simply increases their revenue. At the end of the day they pretty much know how much money they made off of it. Some of the other things come into play as discussed above, but to a much smaller extent because the people that benefit is a very small number of people. The parks SEES and can quantify the economic benefit. They do not, however, in my opinion account for the problems it causes with negative feelings and image from the guests who cannot afford the perk.

The bottom line is always . . . well . . . the bottom line. Disney promotes guest experience, image and customer satisfaction as top priority and they see it as the best way to make money by promoting top notch service and high quality and value. They have a higher gate price, but reasonable food and other items. Cedar Fair seems to be focused on gate receipts and how much cash is piled up at the end of the day. Maybe they should focus less on making money today so that they would make more money tomorrow?

Just in case you missed these threads here is a link to them,

http://www.KICentral...showtopic=24131

http://www.KICentral...showtopic=24150

This will help you understand some of your accusations about Cedar Fair and the mindset of the new personnel. Your last paragraph of your post does not quite jive with what we now know.

How is it you know those who buy the Speed Lane will not buy more in the shops or eat at a sit down restaurant in the park? In fact maybe those who would pony up the $50.00 may be a great target market to keep out of lines. So at the end of the day did they just get the $50 or did they get a lot more from them in additional spending. Most coaster enthusiast I know can not marathon on coasters with out a break. I do not believe that most of the ones who purchase the Speed Lane will be riding marathon style.