Starting to Decode 2014

[Oldschool75]

I still think it's not going to be an invert. The track I saw matches with a train over track configuration. And as far as I know there are no other coasters being built by B&M that haven't shipped parts. The Thorpe Park Heide Park coaster and one in China have already shipped. This new track that was seen at the factory in June is straight edged track, not curved.

[chickenbowl]

Here's thing with the double footers. This picture has been used before on this thread without problem (it was taken from Drop Tower, it's not mine, I don't condone taking pictures from rides without permission), but it illustrates it perfectly.

First, that truck fits between those pair of supports perfectly with enough room to spare on either side, which would easily fit a 4 across B&M inverted car. Double supports on B&M coasters above the tracks aren't nearly that wide on the final brakes.

Secondly, those footers (starting from the top left) in the 4x3 square are the shed footers. The nearest footers to the right of that are inches from the shed footers.

Here's Diamondback's for comparsion to illustrate how far the next footers over are for a sit down coaster, which are centered on the track above.

DB's footers for the shed are also 4 wide. However, the next nearest footers from the footers at the edge of the shed on DB (which supports the main course track) are a good 5-7 ft over.

Interesting, I actually didn't notice that before. Well it certainly adds another twist to this tale. I just hope this is a decent B&M, not lackluster, like they have been as of late.

[Creed Bratton]

There really isn't a line for flight deck, its practically a walk on during the weekdays and a short 5-10 minute wait on the weekends, arrow is out of business so parts could become an issue, plus think if they removed that coaster and all the paths that led to and from it all the room it would create, then we could see a phase 2 for the Action Zone revamp..

We've mentioned numerous times of this site that lines don't dictate popularity. You are correct Tr0y that Arrow is out of business, but S&S Worldwide currently takes care of Arrow coasters so getting parts isn't as huge of an issue that many may think.

As for general, for those who talk about the fact that the thought of the turn around from the brake-run and the transfer shed near the old entrance of Thunder Alley, did anyone think that that area may not be completely finished on footers yet? What I mean is that footers aren't always finished after the first ones have been poured. Think about the footers for Gatekeeper near the front entrance of the park...they weren't all poured as soon as construction started. Those generally were poured after the park closed for the season. So why couldn't project 2014's footers go out toward the midway past the current construction fence. Just some food for thought.

[YoungStud]

B&M wont stop something that they just created…(giga) to go back to build coasters that were popular in 06' . Doesnt make sense

B&M builds whatever Kings Island wants. Just because they built a giga somewhere doesn't automatically mean that KI's will be a giga. And to your remarks on the last invert being built in '06, there have been a few built in the last few years, heck, OzIris was new this year. Also realize most US parks by 2006 already had a B&M or Vekoma inverted coaster. Kings Island does not. Also, a B&M inverted coaster rides very differently from Invertigo, Flight Deck and Firehawk, not to mention it'd be a nice line chewer, something Kings Island needs, particularly in Action Zone where most ride lines can get pretty long.

Just because ki lacks a[ giga] doesnt mean they want/need a[ giga]

You kinda set yourself up there. I also think you're quite adamant on remaining ignorant of the vast majority of coasters outside the US. Save for the lone B&M Giga. In CANADA. Speaking of which, that Mitch Hawker poll from last year? The one someone touted as saying Intamin took most of the honors on the top 12 (and because no one apparently trusts the Golden Ticket Awards anymore)?

• Expedition GeForce
• Bizarro
• New Texas Giant
• Intimidator 305
• Kawasemi
• Shambhala
• Skyrush
• iSpeed
• Katun (tied 9th)
• Mega-Lite (tied 9th)
• Maverick (tied 9th)
• Nemesis

The ones in bold are American coasters. And to add further insult to injury, Skyrush and Shambhala debuted last year alongside Leviathan. Skyrush is 200 feet tall and was ranked 7th, Shambhala is 250 and was ranked 6th and Leviathan is 300 and was ranked 18th. Aside from the fact that B&M's premier giga ranked second to last in the top 20, the only other giga in the top 5 (Millie was ranked 14th) was beat out by two hyper coasters, 1st Place being in Germany. Also, Nemesis has been around since 1994 and has been in the top-tier list since this poll's inception.

Yeah I count 8 out of 12 intamins.

The b&m's are all heavily themed resulting in a higher ranking. All the intamins on the list don't have jack for theming, they rely on the ride itself.

[stashua123]

The only reason why Leviathan is so low in the list is because its in Canada not USA. Don't judge coasters by there GTA rankings because some of those are overrated and mostly in the USA.

[The Interpreter]

YoungStud said:...All the intamins on the list don't have jack for theming, they rely on the ride itself.

Well, since Dick Kinzel let Jack go, but Jack won the arbitration, perhaps things will be different...

[rcwizard13]

Also, Intamin giga campers, keep in mind that Kings Island does not build what the enthusiasts like most. They will build what the general public will give the most ca$h for.

[chickenbowl]

B&M wont stop something that they just created…(giga) to go back to build coasters that were popular in 06' . Doesnt make sense

B&M builds whatever Kings Island wants. Just because they built a giga somewhere doesn't automatically mean that KI's will be a giga. And to your remarks on the last invert being built in '06, there have been a few built in the last few years, heck, OzIris was new this year. Also realize most US parks by 2006 already had a B&M or Vekoma inverted coaster. Kings Island does not. Also, a B&M inverted coaster rides very differently from Invertigo, Flight Deck and Firehawk, not to mention it'd be a nice line chewer, something Kings Island needs, particularly in Action Zone where most ride lines can get pretty long.

Just because ki lacks a[ giga] doesnt mean they want/need a[ giga]

You kinda set yourself up there. I also think you're quite adamant on remaining ignorant of the vast majority of coasters outside the US. Save for the lone B&M Giga. In CANADA. Speaking of which, that Mitch Hawker poll from last year? The one someone touted as saying Intamin took most of the honors on the top 12 (and because no one apparently trusts the Golden Ticket Awards anymore)?

• Expedition GeForce
• Bizarro
• New Texas Giant
• Intimidator 305
• Kawasemi
• Shambhala
• Skyrush
• iSpeed
• Katun (tied 9th)
• Mega-Lite (tied 9th)
• Maverick (tied 9th)
• Nemesis

The ones in bold are American coasters. And to add further insult to injury, Skyrush and Shambhala debuted last year alongside Leviathan. Skyrush is 200 feet tall and was ranked 7th, Shambhala is 250 and was ranked 6th and Leviathan is 300 and was ranked 18th. Aside from the fact that B&M's premier giga ranked second to last in the top 20, the only other giga in the top 5 (Millie was ranked 14th) was beat out by two hyper coasters, 1st Place being in Germany. Also, Nemesis has been around since 1994 and has been in the top-tier list since this poll's inception.

Yeah I count 8 out of 12 intamins.

The b&m's are all heavily themed resulting in a higher ranking. All the intamins on the list don't have jack for theming, they rely on the ride itself.

Theming plays into the rankings for sure, but B&M doesn't build coasters like they used to. Even if we got an Invert, there's no way it will be nearly as good as Montu.

[The Interpreter]

The only reason why Leviathan is so low in the list is because its in Canada not USA. Don't judge coasters by there GTA rankings because some of those are overrated and mostly in the USA.

Mitch Hawker's poll is based on coasters ridden and is weighted. IF people tell the truth about what they have and have not ridden, coaster location should be relatively irrelevant.

[LordSkippy]

Once b&m hit 300', they won't have an issue building another. That excuse is lame that they did wonderland a favor. B&m did not want 25million to walk out the door. It was time anyway. 12 years after going over 200'.

B&M wont stop something that they just created…(giga) to go back to build coasters that were popular in 06' . Doesnt make sense

And you know this how?

The same way you know where that station, storage shed, and transfer track are for sure

Except I don't.

[McSalsa]

The only reason why Leviathan is so low in the list is because its in Canada not USA. Don't judge coasters by there GTA rankings because some of those are overrated and mostly in the USA.

Umm...if you're referring to the list YoungStud posted, that's not the Golden Ticket awards- it's the 2012 Mitch Hawker Steel Coaster poll. And Leviathan actually did not do that bad in it- 18th out of 365 coasters is far from it, it won nearly 94% of its comparisons, was the highest ranked B&M that does NOT have heavy theming, it actually beat Millennium Force @ Cedar Point in their head-to-head comparison (though MF did manage to rank a bit higher overall), and it beat all but one other B&M Hyper/Giga coaster- the heavily themed Shambhala @ Port Adventura in Europe...yeah, I'd say Leviathan did pretty good for its Mitch Hawker poll debut.

However, the people who do take the Mitch Hawker poll are mostly hardcore coaster enthusiasts, which can be an issue since sometimes the tastes of hardcore coaster nuts and the GP can differ- we (mostly) love our coasters to be forceful and aggressive, but the GP might not enjoy that as much.

[LongLiveTheSmurfRide]

I think if you were to take a poll of the average KI visitor, and ask them if they wanted a giga or an invert, they'd probably say they wanted an invert. Why? Because in their minds, a giga is simply a larger version of what we already have in Diamondback.

Honestly, I think if you took a poll of the average KI visitor, they'd look at the words "giga" and "invert" and say, "What the heck does that mean?"

I believe the average KI visitor just wants to ride a ride. Doesn't matter if it's an invert, giga, sit down, floorless, flying, 4D, ect. All this talk of what Kings Island "needs", I don't think the average visitor thinks about what the park "needs". If it's a new B&M coaster or Intamin, they will line up in droves to ride it because it's new.

[The Interpreter]

But, what when it's ten?

Compare Magnum at 10 to Raptor at 10, for example.

Or Millennium Force.

Or 20. Some day.

[secondson]

I think if you were to take a poll of the average KI visitor, and ask them if they wanted a giga or an invert, they'd probably say they wanted an invert. Why? Because in their minds, a giga is simply a larger version of what we already have in Diamondback.

Honestly, I think if you took a poll of the average KI visitor, they'd look at the words "giga" and "invert" and say, "What the heck does that mean?"

I believe the average KI visitor just wants to ride a ride. Doesn't matter if it's an invert, giga, sit down, floorless, flying, 4D, ect. All this talk of what Kings Island "needs", I don't think the average visitor thinks about what the park "needs". If it's a new B&M coaster or Intamin, they will line up in droves to ride it because it's new.

Hmmm...well, I agree and disagree. You're right the average KI visitor probably wouldn't know the difference between an invert and giga. Thank you - I stand corrected on that point. But I think if you showed them pictures, or models, of each one and asked which they'd prefer to see at KI, they'd pick the invert because it looks more fun and different than anything else currently at the park.

Anyway, I'm not sure if this has been discussed lately, but I saw something on another coaster website in reference to Kings Island dethroning a "mountain spirit" in 2014. Alpengeist literally means "Alps spirit", or more generally "mountain spirit", and Alpengeist currently reigns as the tallest invert. Could the hint mean Alpengeist will lose its title as tallest invert? I'm just going on this being a hint, and not something legitimate. I have no idea where the hint originated.

[Jayblazer]

All three North American Giga coasters are within 91/2 hours drive from Kings Island which makes them very accessible to people in this region who are looking for that. And I can ride that all with my platinum pass. You know what I don't have access to? A 4D coaster, that's what Cedar Fair needs that's what Kings Island needs!

Youngstud has an idea.

If unfortunately we are getting a b&m. I think it will be a 4D. B&M has been working on a 4D design for some time now. The biggest problem X(now X2) had was stress on the trains. B&M has built around a half dozen wing coasters, that shows that their wide trains run well and has no stress on them like X did.

It would make sense because CF does not have a 4D and there are only two 4d's in america. X2 and the intamin zac spin are both on the west coast.

Going by what mr. ouimett said about no Wing Coasters in a CF park, he did not say it would not be similar....

GAME OVER

Good point......

[intaminallday]

I agree that ki could use a invert and dont judge my username i like both b&m and intamin , but i feel like its going to not be the as detailed as some others becausei feel ki wont keep up with scenery and effects like the water drop on oziris. I think that a invert wont take up a whole lot of space. And i will be pleased to tell you he only way raptor has a lot of visits *to me is* because its the first ride there when you walk in. I feel like i cant share my own opinion because everyone is shooting me down. If i think it will be a giga dont tell me im wrong.

[YoungStud]

Raptor is a walk on later in the day.

[intaminallday]

But after looking at a giga i could guess its very likely to be an invert after pictures and stuff but i hope if it is they might include scenery like montu and have a drop like oziris

[TheCrypt]

I agree that ki could use a invert and dont judge my username i like both b&m and intamin , but i feel like its going to not be the as detailed as some others becausei feel ki wont keep up with scenery and effects like the water drop on oziris. I think that a invert wont take up a whole lot of space. And i will be pleased to tell you he only way raptor has a lot of visits *to me is* because its the first ride there when you walk in. I feel like i cant share my own opinion because everyone is shooting me down. If i think it will be a giga dont tell me im wrong.

The carousel is also at the park entrance.

Crypt, whose posts occasionally need to be...interpreted.

[The Interpreter]

Round and round and round she goes, and where she stops, nobody knows. Or nobody noes.

[McSalsa]

But, what when it's ten?

Compare Magnum at 10 to Raptor at 10, for example.

Or Millenium Force.

Or 20. Some day.

Hmm...then I guess we can call easily Beast a long-term success, as it was still very popular at 10 in '89 and continues to get 1+ hour waits and 1,000,000+ riders per year at the amazing age of 34.

And then there's also Vortex. 26 years old, and while the wait times aren't that long, it still pulls over 1,000,000 riders onto its trains every year...except that one year when it just missed 1,000,000 because it's chain broke and it was closed for a whole month. All this for a coaster that, according to the "normal" 25-year lifespan of steel coasters, should be dead (and some of its peers actually are dead)!

I would call these 2 long-term successes, easily, as they remain relevant to guests long after their records (save Beast's length record of course) were broken and newer rides came into the park.

[Merthecat]

I think if you were to take a poll of the average KI visitor, and ask them if they wanted a giga or an invert, they'd probably say they wanted an invert. Why? Because in their minds, a giga is simply a larger version of what we already have in Diamondback.

Honestly, I think if you took a poll of the average KI visitor, they'd look at the words "giga" and "invert" and say, "What the heck does that mean?"

I believe the average KI visitor just wants to ride a ride. Doesn't matter if it's an invert, giga, sit down, floorless, flying, 4D, ect. All this talk of what Kings Island "needs", I don't think the average visitor thinks about what the park "needs". If it's a new B&M coaster or Intamin, they will line up in droves to ride it because it's new.

It doesn't even have to be a roller coaster. It could be a flat ride.

Heck, it could be a new bathroom!

Dededededededededededededeeededede

Remember the thing that said they were building a bathroom?

[TheCrypt]

Whatever the new addition is, it needs to look really cool from the midway. Vortex is seriously the most photogenic coaster ever.

[JTW]

This is a direct copy from the temporary thread that for some reason I couldn't resist posting in with some of my thoughts.

I hate saying it but the size and layout of the footers resembles Silver Bullet at Knott's, especially now that more have been poured and they've gotten kind of crowded. I can't explain the triangular footers though. It could be a new element or a refined support method.

http://rcdb.com/2536.htm?p=0

It's really still too early to make a final guess though. I wouldn't hate an invert and Montu is one of my favorite rides, but I'm being kind of selfish and hoping for a twisty floorless with lots of inversions because I've never ridden one.

[YoungStud]

^

After your first lap it ill be old and you will have wanted something else.

[dwitb]

Wouldn't it be awesome if this was the first clue to the new ride...

It's a B&M invert, there's new Halloween attractions.....it all sort of ties together

I know, I know, dumb, right?

[TheBEASTunchained]

^ Wow she was sounding like a Banshee!

.....And here's a video I just found on YouTube posted last Sunday showing the construction, It was uploaded by a user named Patrick Michael.

[secondson]

Round and round and round she goes, and where she stops, nobody knows. Or nobody noes.

I'm laughing right now because I have this image in my head of an invert train shaped like a roulette wheel spinning around as it goes down the first hill and into a vertical loop.

[YoungStud]

Then a zero g into a cobra roll or immelman.

[secondson]

Wouldn't it be awesome if this was the first clue to the new ride...

It's a B&M invert, there's new Halloween attractions.....it all sort of ties together

I know, I know, dumb, right?

No, I wouldn't call it dumb. Actually, the first time I ever saw that commercial I wondered why they were showing a full-circuit invert when KI doesn't have one. Yet.