Kings Island angers special-needs parents

[Browntggrr]

I had almost posted a long drawn out solution to this, but Mrs.NoChickens pointed out the obvious. Why couldn't the park give out discounted Fast Lane passes for autistic persons?

There is no guarantee that FL will still have no wait.

[medford]

I.D. Required, limit of x times per year. x number of specified care givers, max care givers 4 per visit.

So you're saying I can only go x times a year? But I live around the corner, I want to come x+y times a year. Why do we have to pay extra money just because our child is special needs? Just playing devils advocate, but in light of the Disney situation, I imagine its situations like these that the park would like to avoid.

In all honesty, the policy, as outlined above, is the fairest system for all involved, both those with special needs who find moving/waiting in lines to be a difficult venture, and the general park patrons.

the one time I've seen something implemented for someone w/ a handicap, I thought it was extremely well done. I was taking my niece on Diamondback last year, we were waiting for our seat assignment while I noticed a ride op roping off a row of seats. We went to the row directly behind the roped off section, while I was standing there wondering why those seats were ropped off. When we got on our train, we discovered why that row had been ropped off. A femal couple came from the exit area and boarded the seats in front of us. In all honesty, I have no idea what their handicap was, though not all are obvious. At any rate, as soon as our train got back to the station, the rope had been removed and people were waiting in line to board our train (and I'll assume the similar seats on the 2 trains b/w our loading and exiting). The whole process got the couple on board quickly, it prevented anyone from standing in line, assuming they were getting on the next train only to be asked to wait an additional train, and at the end, everything was quickly back to normal. Welld one all around.

[raptor]

Yeah, how many Autistic kids would you be waiting for when it's your turn to get on the ride if they got discounted fast passes? The problem is this country has become a country of special priveledges. There is always some group expecting special treatment, and they usually get it.

[Jayblazer]

Here is the sad truth. I live in Mason now and I'm proud of that because its a nice area and I work hard to live here so my kid can go to these schools and get a good education. But I'm from a lets say rougher part of town. And I grew up kind of wild got in some trouble here and there but I have turned myself around. Well I have lots of "friends" on Facebook that are not people of the highest moral character and more then once it has been said and it is general knowledge in this area that you don't have to buy a Fast Lane pass you can just tell the park you have anxiety about lines or that your child is autistic and they will let you right on front car all day. I know it's horrible. And I tell them they are buying that Fast Lane pass with their soul but most do not care.

I myself on opening day got bumped three times waiting for front seat on various coasters. I even "got into it" with two men who took my front seat on The Beast after an hour and a half wait. They walked up laughing and started were joking about it. Ugh

I have thought about starting a topic about this numerous times but didn't want anyone to think I would be a part of this..

I myself live by the saying "Honor is a gift a man gives himself"

[shark6495]

I respect the difficulties with the unexpected change; and I've never had to deal directly with an autistic child/adult so I can't say I've been in their shoes. However, with that said, I would think (correct me if I'm wrong) that as long as you know the current policy, you should be able to work around it as a parent. If its a 15 minute wait for The Racer, you go and get your pass, have your child do something for 15 minutes, then board the ride. I can see several difficulties with that, namely I imagine for people with severe cases, you'd have to have one parent go up and get the passes, while the other parent was with the kid doing something different. Its not always possible for both parents, or multiple people to be there w/ the autistic child.

Its a no win situation for the park, as soon as you make accomidations for one person, you have to start making accomidations for everyone. Where do you draw the line? You change your accomidations from what people are used to from the past, and people complain.

Well a child with autism (people first language) requires a structure and routine. When the routine is broken or not implemented then things can go very bad. So by having the child create a plan before getting to the park (first we will ride flight deck, then racer, then bathroom, then beast, then eat, etc) and having to implement a new element would not be a good thing.

So.... we've had a lot of good conversation on this topic, but haven't gotten to the matter at hand...

Those of you who are directly affected from things such as Autism: what are your thoughts on the policy? Is it simply being fair, or does it need to be refined for those who simply can not wait in line?

I think the "new" policy could work with an appropriate support system from parents and a child who is having a good day.

I don't believe in special privelages for anyone for any reason. If your child is in that bad of shape it seems to me you should have bigger problems than worrying about a ride at Kings Island.

Wow. What a selfish thing to say. The child is not "in bad shape" but has a difficulty with change. Sometimes a child with autism or adult with autism or any disability a trip to KI could be one of the greatest things ever.

Now this could work if park management worked with the parents and had the child/adult with autism have the card filled out at the front gate. For example, you go to guest services, at guest services, the worker fills in your card with help from the child. You ask the child/adult which ride they would like to ride first, the guest services person then writes in a time, followed by the next few rides. schedule in a time for lunch/bathroom/etc. When all of the rides have been ridden, the child/adult goes back to guest services and gets another round estimated time rides.

This way the child/adult has a set schedule. No surprises. Now this does eliminate some of the idea of surprise second rides or picking a ride on the fly, but the scheduling would help assist. That way the child does not have to be turned away at the ride. They know at 315 we are riding The Racer and 350 we will be riding beast and at 415 we will eat lunch and at 5 we will be on Diamondback.... now this may anger some of the regular guests, but fair does not mean equal.

[raptor]

If I had a child with that type of disability and being at Kings Island was such a wonderful thing for the child, and he had a problem waiting then I wouldn't mind giving someting up for the child to have a good day and pay the money for the Fast Lane.

[Gordon Bombay]

This change is not new. The park did this a couple of years ago.

Actually the change is new. In previous years under Cedar Fair's Attraction Boarding Pass policies - there were color coded cards that determined specific access. These cards could only be given out by employees who were specifically trained to evaluate a guest's case, needs and requirements. It's a tough situation as an employee - you want to be as accommodating, polite and respectful as possible while also keeping the guest's safety as the top priority. I should know, I assigned plenty of those passes the past few seasons before I left the park.

In the case of guests with autism, there used to be a specific sheet just for those cases. Normally, the Attraction's Boarding Pass required that if the wait time was 30 minutes or less, the guest and their approved group were permitted access up the exit immediately. If the estimated wait time was above 30 minutes (say it was 45 minutes), the guest would be given a time 45 minutes later to return with their group and board.

With the autism pass though, things were different - there were never assigned wait times specifically due to how some guests are affected by the condition. My best friend's sister is autistic and in her case, she's a child who doesn't understand the concept of waiting.

Unfortunately policies like the one above are not a "catch all," every disability is different and each case needs to be evaluated on an individual basis. I never encountered any guest who tried to abuse the system when I gave out passes, but I know of many guests where the "autism pass" was a huge help to the family in the park.

I can say this - the park takes this matter very seriously and the training and respect around that training are truly sincere and I can say with confidence that it was executed very well.

Those families with mentally challenged members do not want special treatment, yet do not want to wait for a ride like everyone else? That is a bit contradictory.

I don't think the family in the mentioned case here is being contradictory, rather I think they were just taken aback by the policy change which up until this season was different and allowed for accommodation on rides as soon as possible.

So.... we've had a lot of good conversation on this topic, but haven't gotten to the matter at hand...

Those of you who are directly affected from things such as Autism: what are your thoughts on the policy? Is it simply being fair, or does it need to be refined for those who simply can not wait in line?

Frankly, I think the discussion has gotten to the matter at hand and people have been sharing their thoughts. Like many have said, it's a no-win situation. No policy, no matter how accommodating is going to be able to be applied to each individual case. However, I think the park takes alternate boarding and accommodation very seriously. As mentioned in the article, the park changed their policy after consulting with autism awareness groups in order to create an "equal" experience for everyone. I think in this case unfortunately, the guests were just not aware of the policy change.

We had to stop taking my brother(severely autistic)after they implemented the wait policy. During Paramount era, you could just get a handicap card(it looked sorta liked a business card) and walk right up to the exit and the the ride attendant would either wait 1 train ride or ask people in line if they would give up their seat for us. 99% of the time, we got right on or just waited 1 train ride. It was perfect, my little brother would be happy and we would have no melt downs.

then the change came to wait(this was still in paramount era aswell). Our first trip, it was explained to us how the new policy works, if the wait is under 15mins you'll get right on, If the wait is over 15mins you'll be given a boarding time to come back. ALL HELL broke loose when we were given a boarding time. My little brother, if something was slightly out of his routine or he knew something was different, it was war world. I think we only spent 45minutes in the park before leaving. We knew we could never go back there again because it upsets him way too much.

Needless to say I haven't been able to go to Kings Island with my brother for over 10 years now, which is very sad, because I love my little brother and I cant enjoy one of our favorite places on earth with each other anymore.

I think the policy should be tweaked, I think the ride attendant should ask if anyone wants to volunteer their seats to the handicap person, or if the wait is less than 15mins, just get them right on.

edit: spelling errors

just pointing out something - during the remaining years of Paramount/Viacom/CBS (at least 2004 - 2006), the policy was the one I mentioned above. Guests who requested a pass for alternate boarding would be given a wait time on certain attractions if the regular line exceeded 30 minutes. However, there was no special accommodation pass for a guest with autism. Also, nearly any associate could give out these passes at rides, there was no evaluation. Cedar Fair implemented a new policy in 2007 that kept the "30 minute rule," but was more specific and individualized, while adding the "autism pass" - however, you also had to be a manager or a guest services team member to award this pass to a guest.

I think what the park did was noble, they were trying to create an equal experience across the board. The problem was that not everyone was informed of these changes, but then again how do you target such a specific audience with the information of these changes? It's also tough when a first time on the job 16 year old kid has to be the one to explain said policy change to a parent in the heat, who has walked up an exit and is expecting to have their child accommodated based on past experiences.

I will say this, I can be very critical of the way certain things are executed out of Sandusky - but this policy is something that the folks who work at Kings Island are truely passionate about. When I worked at the park, I loved receiving feedback from guests I talked to on the midway and I worked in an environment where I could share that feedback with my team. If you're a parent or someone who knows someone with special needs and has questions or ideas for improving the policy, please share it with the park. There were several people, and there still are people who truly do care.

[Gordon Bombay]

If I had a child with that type of disability and being at Kings Island was such a wonderful thing for the child, and he had a problem waiting then I wouldn't mind giving someting up for the child to have a good day and pay the money for the Fast Lane.

But often, Fast Lane is just "slightly less long wait lane."

[shark6495]

I will say this, I can be very critical of the way certain things are executed out of Sandusky - but this policy is something that the folks who work at Kings Island are truely passionate about. When I worked at the park, I loved receiving feedback from guests I talked to on the midway and I worked in an environment where I could share that feedback with my team. If you're a parent or someone who knows someone with special needs and has questions or ideas for improving the policy, please share it with the park. There were several people, and there still are people who truly do care.

And I sent my idea of a schedule versus the cards to the park. I think the cards can work with certain guests but some children/adults need that schedule and if you are taking a class of MD/autism kids, then the schedule could help the teachers and students.....

[Dms94]

Edit. Nevermind

[Cody]

Yea, 2003 was the last year that my family of 8 also stopped buying season passes, wasn't worth the kicking n screaming and meltdowns. Through the years us individuals kept going to the park, but probably once or twice a season apart from when we were going twice a month due to my brothers schedule.

[jcgoble3]

If I had a child with that type of disability and being at Kings Island was such a wonderful thing for the child, and he had a problem waiting then I wouldn't mind giving someting up for the child to have a good day and pay the money for the Fast Lane.

But often, Fast Lane is just "slightly less long wait lane."

Question: How does having Fast Lane interact with the disability boarding pass and the 30-minute rule?

To use a specific situation, let's say that on a very busy Saturday in July, Flight of Fear is a 2-hour standby wait or a 45-minute Fast Lane wait. A disabled guest (speaking in general here, not necessarily autism) whose entire party has Fast Lane wristbands comes up the handicap access at 3:00 and presents both their disability boarding pass and Fast Lane wristbands. What happens?

A. They are allowed to board immediately since they have Fast Lane, or

B. The operator estimates the Fast Lane wait time and gives them a return time of 3:45, or

C. Fast Lane and the disability boarding pass cannot be used together and the party must return at 5:00.

B would be the right way to do it, but how do you estimate the Fast Lane wait time? The Fast Lane line cannot be seen from Flight of Fear's station, and with a line that long, the person checking Fast Lane wristbands at the merge point in the queue might not be able to see the end of the line either. So while B would be the right way to do it, A would seem to be more practical.

[Big Woody]

Just asking...how do people with autism: wait for a city bus, wait to be seated in a restaurant, wait in line for a haicut, etc. I mean, are public transit, diners, and barbers infringing on civil rights for not providing immediate service? Im sorry, but parents expecting the masses to part like the red sea for them are not being realistic. I agree with KI policy.

[Vortex]

I know some might like but someone has to draw the line. Some people can not do everything they would like It's a part of life. The park is already going out of their way to help out.

[shark6495]

Just asking...how do people with autism: wait for a city bus, wait to be seated in a restaurant, wait in line for a haicut, etc. I mean, are public transit, diners, and barbers infringing on civil rights for not providing immediate service? Im sorry, but parents expecting the masses to part like the red sea for them are not being realistic. I agree with KI policy.

Some do not wait for city buses. They walk because they can not handle it, or they know the schedule of the bus and if the bus is 1 minute late or early, throws off their entire day. Some kids with autism have to have a hair cut at home. With a parent holding them down while another cuts their hair. Some parents never go to dinner, because other diner patrons believe the kids shouldnt be out in public because they cant handle it.

I think you all are missing the point. Its not the immediate service that is the problem, its the delay and random changes to the schedule that affects the kids/adults the most.

[Vortexfreak]

My nephew has Autism and I have watched him a number of times so I can sympathize with these family's 110%, My Aunt has tired to take him to KI and it didn't go well because of the wait he like others have no concept of time. Now for myself I have no problem with letting people with disability's go on the ride before me i'm perfectly healthy and can ride as much as i want so it's no big deal for me, but i do feel that there need to be a change to the policy or to how the schedule is done for these people that can't have a lucky go life like many of us on here. Maybe have the parents call a day or two to schedule when there child can ride, or have an event or two a month to advocate autism just like the Cancer, Coasting for kids and so on......Just my thoughts but many of us take what we have for granted.....Put there shoes on for a day and you might change your mind.

[BoddaH1994]

Just asking...how do people with autism: wait for a city bus, wait to be seated in a restaurant, wait in line for a haicut, etc. I mean, are public transit, diners, and barbers infringing on civil rights for not providing immediate service? Im sorry, but parents expecting the masses to part like the red sea for them are not being realistic. I agree with KI policy.

I was thinking the same thing, but couldn't think of a proper way to say it. Waiting is certainly not a Kings Island thing, it happens every day. If an individual with autism can be taught that when they go to a restaurant, there will be a waiting period between ordering food and eating, can they also be taught that there will be a period between deciding to ride a ride and actually riding it? It's an honest question, so don't be offended by my ignorance. Maybe one of the many in this thread who are far more familiar with the situation can throw in their $.02.

[Vortexfreak]

Just asking...how do people with autism: wait for a city bus, wait to be seated in a restaurant, wait in line for a haicut, etc. I mean, are public transit, diners, and barbers infringing on civil rights for not providing immediate service? Im sorry, but parents expecting the masses to part like the red sea for them are not being realistic. I agree with KI policy.

I was thinking the same thing, but couldn't think of a proper way to say it. Waiting is certainly not a Kings Island thing, it happens every day. If an individual with autism can be taught that when they go to a restaurant, there will be a waiting period between ordering food and eating, can they also be taught that there will be a period between deciding to ride a ride and actually riding it? It's an honest question, so don't be offended by my ignorance. Maybe one of the many in this thread who are far more familiar with the situation can throw in their $.02.

From my experience with my nephew that teaching on waiting can be very had, it's not that it cant be done but when you have parents working jobs to support their family and all the Doctor visits does not leave alot of time and just being autistic requires a lot of attention. I know it is hard enough on the family's that it drove my aunt and her husband apart.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Vortexfreak

[shark6495]

Just asking...how do people with autism: wait for a city bus, wait to be seated in a restaurant, wait in line for a haicut, etc. I mean, are public transit, diners, and barbers infringing on civil rights for not providing immediate service? Im sorry, but parents expecting the masses to part like the red sea for them are not being realistic. I agree with KI policy.

I was thinking the same thing, but couldn't think of a proper way to say it. Waiting is certainly not a Kings Island thing, it happens every day. If an individual with autism can be taught that when they go to a restaurant, there will be a waiting period between ordering food and eating, can they also be taught that there will be a period between deciding to ride a ride and actually riding it? It's an honest question, so don't be offended by my ignorance. Maybe one of the many in this thread who are far more familiar with the situation can throw in their $.02.

Boddah, children can be taught but it takes a long time, and many many many practices before the child/adult can "get it." But each situation needs to be taught. Children with autism have a very difficult time generalizing a skill. A child with autism may learn to wait for food at home, but in a restaurant does not understand the waiting period. They may learn to wait at Olive garden but do not understand the wait at outback. In each new environment the skill needs to be learned.

In SpecEd we are taught that a typical student learns a concept with 6-8 unique opportunities. A child with autism can take 10-20 times longer to learn a skill. Or in other terms. A child will take waiting in Beasts line 8 times before they understand that waiting = a ride, and acting out is not appropriate. A child with autism may require 80-160 opportunities to learn the exact same skill. This is not counting any "weird" sensory distractions that may occur (Too hot, too cold, music too loud, they are tired, meds are different, different time of day, etc). Plus the child/adult would need to learn to wait at each ride. So learning to wait at The Beast is a different experience than waiting for Flight Deck or DT, or even Boo Blasters.

Parents are also integral into this process. I just had a coworker take her 20 year old son to Disney. She began prepping him for a possible plane delay 8 months ago. If the plane got delayed in Jersey, he has a history of acting out and she was afraid he would make a scene on the plane and get forcibly removed. So she had to go over what to do 3 times a day for the last 8 months, just in case the plane is delayed. He has been going to Disney since he was 4 so he really understands waiting, and actually yells at people using the fast pass system (he is an enthusiast even if he doesnt know it).

So long answer longer, yes a child/adult with autism can be taught but its a very very long process. Sometimes a parent and a child do not need the extra stress of waiting. Some of these children/adult dont realize how strong they are. They may jump on the back of a fellow park patron, spin around, spit, climb the rails, or punch just because they are being over stimulated and dont understand what is happening.

Funny side story. My first day in the Autism classroom, I touched the desk of one of my students. He didnt know how to take it so he flipped the desk, removed his shirt, spit (blew raspberries), and then opened the door to the closet and climbed to the top of the door. Just lifted himself right up. All in about 2-3 seconds.

EDITED: added an additional line about learning at different coasters

[BoddaH1994]

Thanks for your response.

I guess with that same concept, would be applied to rides. Learning to wait for Flight Deck is not the same is learning to wait for Diamondback. Also, learning to wait 10 minutes for The Beast is not the same as learning to wait 45 minutes for The Beast.

Am I getting it?

[shark6495]

Thanks for your response.

I guess with that same concept, would be applied to rides. Learning to wait for Flight Deck is not the same is learning to wait for Diamondback. Also, learning to wait 10 minutes for The Beast is not the same as learning to wait 45 minutes for The Beast.

Am I getting it?

Bingo! And thats the hardest part for parents/teachers/family. One moment the child appears to have got it perfect. The very next moment its starting over. Its not uncommon for a child to learn compensatory behaviors. We teach them all of the time. But it takes a very dedicated group of people who are willing to bear hug a student when needed, or willing to wipe spit off their face and keep a smile. Get hit and not react for the student to learn. Different places create a brand new learning environment for the student.

Some students I work with have to eat in the classroom because they have not learned to wait in the cafeteria and the extra noise upsets them

[zombiejane]

I'm on the fence with this one.

I think everyone should be allowed to enjoy the park, but at what point do you draw the line?

How do you decide who can handle waiting vs. who cannot?

If the whole point of walk on riding is to avoid meltdowns, what do you do when things happen that are out of your/KI's control?

[Big Woody]

I noticed in the last few posts, no one mentioned this one thing...which is what Im having an issue with... If a disabled person asks me to be seated first at a diner I go to, for whatever reason, Ud be more than happy to help. But if I show up and see a group protesting the diner, because the owner didnt happen to fully accomodate their specific disability, when I know the diner makes a great effort to accomodate everybody, ....THATS what I have a problem with.... and it makes me not want to help the next time...

[Big Woody]

I work in the public sector, and provide service to disabled people. All I can say to any business is consult your attorney, and make sure your policies fall within ADA guidelines. No more no less. Try to be everything to everyone and you will fail. Kings Island is a great park, and makes a great effort to provide a wonderful experience for everyone.

[mullimann]

This is simple. The ADA REQUIRES that a company NOT discriminate against a disability. By having 1 and only 1 policy they comply. But if a immediate seating card is given to someone because they cannot wait in line, and the person with an amputated leg has to return 30 minutes later. The amputee was discriminated against. Why should he have to wait.

This recent 1 rule for everyone was enforced at SIX last year. While FUN took 1 more year to make it policy.

I understand the strife families with Autism deal with, i have family members affected. But much like any policy or law.. They are created because someone did something that caused the policy to be made. Theme parks have struggled with the ADA since enactment. How do you comply and not discriminate. AND make the guest have the best day ever.

We have all seen in the past few weeks how these same type of passes, are abused and used. It used to be if you had a wheel chair or ECV you went to the exit, next train you were loaded. Yeah, we complied, they got to ride! But from my own experience working at Universal Orlando, families would get a wheel chair for mom or ECV for dad, and enjoy the wonderful perks. Well soon the wheel chairs and ECV's rented out every day! To only see mom have no problem walking or dad carrying Johnny on his shoulders while mom hops on the ECV. Abuse was rampant, so now you must register at guest services, get your card to enjoy not having to wait in line, of course with your physicians note.

The youtube video, and several of the complaints were, we drove X hours to come to the park, to find out they changed the old policy, and didn't let anyone know of the change. Well policies change, they assumed it was the same. I have seen the ASD page on KI's website since 2012, and a usually quick call to the park or visit to the web page would have informed visitor of the change. The park doesn't have every persons e-mail or address who may have a disability, you have to call the NSA for that.

I personally hope that FUN stays steadfast on this policy. I am sure Disney's legal eagles and consultants are all trying to determine how to handle the abuses of the old immediate boarding cards. Most likely, we will see Disney goto similar timed return policies, and fastpass+ is rumored to have such capabilities. SIX could require flashpass for guest needing timed boarding. And FUN possibly going to a similar virtual queue system that can be used to lessen the need to have a paper filled out.

[The Interpreter]

The ADA actually requires reasonable accomodation. Whatever that is.

[shark6495]

Ill repeat this, what is fair isnt always equal.

Its not like the kids with autism are deciding to have problems waiting just to get a free front row pass

[Browntggrr]

Much like the issues that constantly plague society today, there is no one thing/ plan to solve the problem (I call it a "Magic Wand").

Many today do not know what autism is as the first thing they think of is "Rain Man" (on a side note, Dustin Hoffman was excellent!). There are a handful of more severe cases, and most less severe (many go undiagnosed or diagnosed at an older age).

Parks (since SIX has now entered the mix) do try and cater to everyone, but the decisions are for the majority of disabled guests, not the most severe. Policies often change with any business & just because it has been done one way in the past, does not mean it is the right way today & does not mean it cannot change in the future.

One thing is certain: in our litigation happy society, parks will first cover their own butt before allowing a possible safety incident to happen.

[DiamondBackGirl]

I honestly think Kings Islands policy is fair...and I agree with what someone said about if a person cannot wait should they really be able to ride? it really is a good point. I think KI does its best to make it fair for everyone and no matter the policy someone isn't going to be happy.

[stashua123]

I think its sort of fair but the more I think about it the more I think it also isn't fair. What happens if someone really does want to go to Kings Island and likes to ride the rides but cant because he/she can't wait in lines. It is almost impossible to teach someone to wait that can't already do so. What happens if there are other people that are in the family of them that really want to go but can't because their brother is prone to meltdowns. Thats the reason why I also think it isn't fair. You can disagree with me all you want but its my opinion.