Winterfest Wishes and Ideas- A Way to Bring It Back

[Skyrider]

Now that the regular season is over it gets me thinking about Winterfest. What are your ideas to help bring it back? My idea is to have a smaller event but still plenty to do while still making it very profitable for Cedar Fair. Here are my wishes and ideas:

Have only smaller areas of the park open-- on and near International Street only--- decorated in lights including the Eiffel Tower, decorated of course as a gigantic tree again. Make the fountains open for ice skating again by offering a pass to buy for the Wintefest event or pay each time with the option for skate rental at a cost or use your own skates. The Festhaus could offer an optional dinner theatre Holiday show. It would be a paid offering that you could reserve ahead on visitkingsisland.com or at the park if seats are still available. The restaurant above the entrance could also be an offering for those that did not want to do the dinner show and only offered at night when the lights on International Street would be at there best. Local high school and elementary choirs could be invited to perform in the theatre that Cirque Imagine was in and would bring a lot of families out to see their local school perform (Q102 even has a competition each year and maybe they could be a sponsor and have the top groups perform or compete). Skyline could be open for a more casual less expensive option that is inside and the new Starbuck on International Street would be open as well, and also the new improved sweet shop. Maybe the new yogurt place would offer Funnel Cakes and Cinnabon instead or some other holiday type foods. La Rosa's could be open (possibly Greater's location as a sitting area) or if one of the nearby shops could be open for a sitting area or a heated tent maybe with tables and chairs.

I was thinking the Winterfest event would only be open Friday nights, Saturdays, and Sundays (like in the fall season). Parking would be free and admission would be free for season pass holders and a low cost like maybe $5 for kids and up to $10 per adult for non-season pass holders since money would be made on skating, the shops, dinner show, and restaurants that were open. It would not require the regular amount of employees as a full blown Winterfest and would be very profitable in my opinion because it would be really popular and have the best of Winterfest past.

I know that they need time to take down the Haunt and put up the lights and decorations but I would think it would be doable and could open starting mid November or Thanksgiving Weekend. It would be a lower cost alternative to former attempt to bring Winterfest back.

I wish Winterfest would come back in some form and with the new love they are giving International Street it would be great to offer this next winter in 2015.

What ideas do you have for a new brought back Winterfest? I would like to know your thought on my ideas too. Hoping someone at Kings Island will see this post and think about how Winterfest could come back in the winter of 2015. With all the new love happening for next year on International Street it would be a great way to make some money off season while bringing a really missed local Holiday attraction back to Kings Island.

[Thrill_Biscuit]

I can appreciate your vision; the park can be a wonderful setting for celebrating the late-autumn/early-winter holidays. I've tried to imagine the logistical challenges that might be taken into consideration by the staff (I'm just a fan; I've never observed the planners in action), and for me it always comes back to the relative unpredictability of our weather during these months.

[The Interpreter]

There is a school of thought that says if you cannot dominate a category, you shouldn't enter it. Be #1 or #2 or not at all.

Festival of Lights is far more competitive than it once was.

Too, look at Six Flags. Holiday In The Park is a relatively rare offering, mostly in Southern|Western parks with dependable weather. It's not even at Six Flags Over Georgia.

Winter Lights, the one time drive through at SFGAd's Safari, was snowed out so badly that it ended.

Last time around, Kings Island's Winterfest got snowed out a couple of nights.

Fewer nights open means less opportunity to make back the investment.

I doubt we see Winterfest back any time soon.

[Dalefan]

Winterfest lost a ton of money for the park too. I believe they never made back what was put into it with everything.

[rhyano]

Correction Six Flags Over Georgia has Holiday In The Park

[The Interpreter]

Thanks. That's new, then. They didn't when I was in Atlanta.

[upstop]

Paramount brought it back specifically to showcase the park for selling it. Kinzel only wanted the parks and nothing else. The unfortunate fact was we had a very bad winter in the events first year and Paramount stacked the cards against itself by requiring scheduling for the event and meals....very bad decision. The event needed to startout small and expand year to year....just like the original. Im willing to bet that it would be around today if

a ) Kinzel would have allowed it remain

b ) Paramount would not have left a bad taste by setting so many restrictions

c ) weather would cooperate

The event was doomed from the beginning.

[RailRider]

The park is closed, the weather has gotten colder, time to reminisce about Winterfest with warm rose colored glasses.

[Voicetek]

Yes, the Festival of Lights has gotten more popular/competitive over the years. You know what else it has gotten? Crowded. A lot more crowded. The past couple of years my wife and I have went, we've waited in a line of traffic just to get into the zoo. Last year it was so bad that the traffic jam started right off the highway exit. Now I know the crowds vary depending on night, time, and weather, but we never pick a certain night or time. We just go whenever we have a free evening and the past 2-3 years now we've ended up in ridiculous crowds.

Are Christmas events getting more popular for this area? If so, by bringing Winterfest back, it might give families an alternative (maybe even a cheaper alternative) to the Festival of Lights. Heck, by having two events in the area, it might even help to spread the crowds out a bit. Maybe not everyone in the tri-state area will flock to the zoo on any given night. Maybe some people would do the zoo, some would do KI. Who really knows for sure.

All I know is that Holiday/Christmas events seem to be popular in the area. Even the smaller, free events get slammed. Do any of you know about Niederman's Family Farm? Every year they do a Christmas walk on their property. They have lights, and displays and free hot chocolate and cookies at the end of the walk in a big, heated barn. It's small, but it's a free alternative for families. It's always crowded. People love it. If Winterfest did come back, I could see it as a smaller event. Give people the holiday festivities, but on a smaller scale and with an admission price a little cheaper than the Festival of Lights. I think this would make Winterfest more competitive and draw families who don't want to pay (or can't pay) the $20 to get into the zoo. However, KI could have some other options once inside the event to make money, or some upcharges for various activities. However, if you wanted to just come in and enjoy the atmosphere, you could do so for a minimal fee.

I don't see that Winterfest is totally out of the question in the future. I believe that you could make it work if done right and I think the OP had some good ideas on how to do that. I think the key thing is to make it competitive and I think you can do that by scaling it down and making it more affordable than the zoo. It wouldn't be free, but it also wouldn't break the bank. Right now though, we can only dream. Perhaps one day I'll be able to take my kids to Winterfest and relive the memories I remember as a kid. How cool would that be?

[dtk1378]

I agree that Winterfest would be fantastic to bring back, it was one of my favorite things to go to as a child. I feel though the last few attempts at it have left a bad taste in the mouth of management for Kings Island with not making any money. I like the idea of cheaper admission with limited staff due to no major rides running. Only question is, with cheaper admission would they be able to off-set the costs they still have to maintain such as payroll, electric (would still be high with a major lights display), and general maintenance costs. It would be nice to have an alternative to Festival of Lights though, like Voicetek stated, parking is atrocious down there in late November / December.

As for an idea to have with it would be a nice themed train ride, they did some theming on the train with Halloween, can't see why they can't do the same for Christmas time.

[upstop]

They could sell a Winterfest seasons pass earlier in the season to gauge the size of the crowds to anticipate, have free parking and a slimmed down admission price, partner with local artisans and vendors for the event, add many indoor events and shows, make it a shopping destination for the season (toys, clothing, ornaments), they could use Dinosaurs Alive as a lighted walking trail, I would imagine that maybe FOF could operate, why not have an indoor holiday maze someplace in the park, definitely use the train ride and Boo Blasters (maybe Elf it up in some way), operate nearly all of Planet Snoopy ....start small and expand to a regional event...heck it could be done if they really wanted to do it.

Or they could just lose out on capitalizing on one of the top rated holidays.

[bkroz]

I submit another contributing factor.

All summer, Kings Island is a thrill seekers paradise with big coasters, mediocre food, generic and 300% price-inflated merchandise, carny games, and choose-your-decade musical revues. Fine. It is what it is. But to say, "This December, Kings Island will be open.... without the coasters!" That isn't likely to get anyone too excited because it leaves mediocre food, generic and expensive merchandise, carny midway games, and standard musical revues.

Granted, that's changing one season at a time. But I still don't think we're at the point where "Kings Island Without The Coasters" is likely to be a hugely successful marketing push.

Parks like Busch Gardens have wonderful food, beautiful theming, detailed gardens, extravagant entertainment, local craftsmen, and animal encounters all year long. It's not a tremendous stretch to imagine Busch Gardens Without Coasters. The park markets to history buffs, garden enthusiasts, families, grandparents, and travelers all year round. It also happens to have some great thrill rides.

But especially up to a few years ago, to suddenly market Kings Island as a family destination where entertainment and dining and unique retail options are the highlight would be a 180-degree about-face from Ride Warriors and tasteless burgers and musical revues the rest of the season. It would feel disingenuous and I think it would be. Again, that's slowly changing. Still leaves the tremendous manpower, salt, snow plows, staffing, and inconsistent weather as MAJOR hurdles though.

[westcoaster]

Even visiting the Natti, the Zoo is over to me, too crowded not enough new stuff, and just has now became too massive in People. The zoo, the Sharon woods drive thru, Union Terminal, a little downtown, is all Cincinnati has left, besides the Train center in West Chester, and the new Beach event.

Its time for Cedar Fair to get with Knotts, add a hotel on site, with a good Restaurant, and make it happen for the park. The first incarnation of Winter Fest was incredible.

The Event should return, and be so much to folks from Dayton, Cincinnati, West Chester, and Beyond. A true and real alternative to the Zoo.

Open a Christmas dark ride, get the trains running, make it so popular, and nothing like ice skating near the Tower of Love.

Kings Island is the King, its a premiere and valued park of the Cedar Fair Organization, and finally its time to countdown New Years with the kids, Santa, the Peanuts, and good times, had by all.

If the Halloween event can work, all can happen, with out all the rides running, and showcase the park for the community. Time to do this, and bring back some Camping with America's favorite Beagle.

Island Fest 2015/ or 2016 is gotta be on the radar, with Cedar Fair and Kings Island in the Family they can own the Market in the great U.S.A

[Outdoor Man]

I was big on Winterfest.

I agree with what was said earlier that Paramount tried to go too BIG in the first year back. I think it made sense to them to have people schedule the days to control the anticipated crowds... I don't fault them for that because Winterfest "was" such a popular attraction in the day that they were likely thinking they would get slammed. $29.99 tickets likely curtailed that, though I purchased them.

I think it could be successful to do a "International Street"- only event, as it was in the successful run... with the exception of Festhaus. Doesn't have to be 50%+ of the park like Paramount tried to do in the final run.

[Bennett]

Always loved Winterfest back in the late 80's/early 90's.

Odds are, though, that we will never see that again. Would not make $$.

[Outdoor Man]

I would personally place the odds at 30%. Not impossible. If you visit Festival of Lights (Cincy Zoo) - Wild Lights (Columbus Zoo); you'll see, there is a market for this type of event. I think that if CF had allowed the 2006 version to run it may have survived a but longer. Given the buyout, I'm sure CF had little to no interest.

Its amazing to think that the amount of time from the original run to the time Paramount brought it back was 13 years. This time around it has already been 9 years.

[The Interpreter]

Back in the days of the original Winterfest, the park closed after the first weekend in October. They had virtually two months to prepare for Winterfest.

Now it would be three weeks. Given the staff that Kings Island has and uses, that's not workable. I really don't see this happening again any time soon.

[Skyrider]

Back in the days of the original Winterfest, the park closed after the first weekend in October. They had virtually two months to prepare for Winterfest.

Now it would be three weeks. Given the staff that Kings Island has and uses, that's not workable. I really don't see this happening again any time soon.

[silver2005]

You could also make the argument that the park would also be competing against college basketball and minor league hockey around here as well, and there's plenty of interest in those events, plus they're indoors.

I agree a lot with Terpy's and goodyellowkorn182's assessments, its not coming back anytime soon.

[Outdoor Man]

Back in the days of the original Winterfest, the park closed after the first weekend in October. They had virtually two months to prepare for Winterfest.

Now it would be three weeks. Given the staff that Kings Island has and uses, that's not workable. I really don't see this happening again any time soon.

I probably agree with that.

Paramount's 2005 reboot had a similar schedule, though I-Street was a little ahead of the preparations as I recall. I think Haunt is a bit more involved than the Paramount days.

I wouldn't rule it out in the future sometime. If they can figure out how to roll the income producing months further in to the year, they'd do it.

[Skyrider]

I do hope that Winterfest does come in the next year or so. As many have said Festival of Lights attracts huge crowds and they do not have any coasters or huge rides to speak of---still lots and lots of people go. Many people I believe would come from Cincinnati, Dayton, Columbus, and Kentucky just to ice skate on the fountain, eat some treats, and see some entertainment at a fair admission price. It would also give an opportunity to sell season passes for the regular season. The idea of confining the event mainly to International Street would allow the transition from the Haunt to Winterfest go pretty quickly in my opinion--not taking weeks. Kings Island does have staff that works off season and more could be hired if necessary if they needed to. The Haunt teardown is not that extensive on International Street and lights could start to go up in the trees before the Haunt was even over during Monday through Thursday-just not turned them on of course. Once the set-up for Winterfest is done the focus on the rest of the park for taking down Haunt could happen. (if someone works for KI off season and could chime in on Haunt teardown and how long it takes on International Street please comment). Remember the indoor haunt attractions just stay up so it would be the mazes and colored light bulb changes which could happen closer to April when the regular season starts if they really needed to wait that long--but highly doubt. We have to realize too that not everyone is a roller coaster enthusiast and it would be an event for all ages. I do think it could be very profitable (look at other amusement parks that have Holiday events). Any amusement park that can stay open almost year round has a huge opportunity to make a lot of money and is great for the local economy. Great Wolf Lodge and other hotels in the area would also benefit from an attraction such as a smaller sized Winterfest.

[upstop]

Anything is possible. They could even hire a profession team to set up over night if they start small.

My question is how are other parks that are seasonal, transitioning between Halloween and Christmas in the same time frame? How much lighting is permanently strung on structures (not trees... that kills trees if left on them all year) but unseen by the average visitor during the summer? How easy would it be to switch to from non traditional string lighting to something similar to what is around the tower base and perhaps changing the textured lighting lenses used this year from Halloween to Christmas?

I do have to agree that it is currently a technical, logistic and staffing issue for certain...but there is always a way if planned appropriately.

Heck they could even do something similar to HH by creating reusable structures that are ready and waiting for a Winterfest event.....kind of like flipping a switch from Halloween to Winterfest.

Never say never....just not now or so fast.

Also keep in mind that The Beach had a winter event and no rides were operating...(thank goodness) except for a paddle boat ride that someone has an interesting story about....(have to giggle a little) and they are having a winter event this year too.

[The Interpreter]

And The Beach is a highly profitable operation making money hand over fist. Oh, wait.

The simple truth is Cedar Fair has taken the pencil out, sharpened it, designed park seasons to maximize fun, property and staff utilization and opportunities, and unit holder equity and distributions.

Post after post talks about demand, demand potential and workabilty. Few talk about profit potential. Paramount Parks lost a kaboodle of money om the 2005 Winterfest, but that event was HIGHLY successful. It succeeded beyond CBS's wildest dreams. It showcased two of the Paramount Parks right before the sale.

The better example is Winterfest 1.0. Many want to blame Paramount for shutting it down. Coincidental timing. Lindner and Kings Island management were already pondering shutting it. It wasn't making money anymore. Expenses had spiraled, while the revenue side was largely static. And that's where the problem is. Yes, with enough money, most things are possible. That doesn't mean they are wise.

There are many reasons Knott's Merry Farm continues and Winterfest does not. Chief among them are profit potential, weather, staffing and logistical issues...probably in that order.

[Thrill_Biscuit]

Just buy some eggnog and peppermint from any of the Kings Mills Road stores, get a park-facing room at Great Wolf Lodge, crank up Warm 98 on a boom box and, whammo! Winterfest 2014!

[upstop]

And The Beach is a highly profitable operation making money hand over fist. Oh, wait.

The simple truth is Cedar Fair has taken the pencil out, sharpened it, designed park seasons to maximize fun, property and staff utilization and opportunities, and unit holder equity and distributions.

Post after post talks about demand, demand potential and workabilty. Few talk about profit potential. Paramount Parks lost a kaboodle of money om the 2005 Winterfest, but that event was HIGHLY successful. It succeeded beyond CBS's wildest dreams. It showcased two of the Paramount Parks right before the sale.

The better example is Winterfest 1.0. Many want to blame Paramount for shutting it down. Coincidental timing. Lindner and Kings Island management were already pondering shutting it. It wasn't making money anymore. Expenses had spiraled, while the revenue side was largely static. And that's where the problem is. Yes, with enough money, most things are possible. That doesn't mean they are wise.

There are many reasons Knott's Merry Farm continues and Winterfest does not. Chief among them are profit potential, weather, staffing and logistical issues...probably in that order.

Bah humbug.....

[Magenta Lizard]

Even though my first kiss was on the ride home from a Winterfest (in 1992, I think), I don't really have fond memories or a wish for it to return. I remember it as it was described unthread: KI without the coasters. Granted, we still had Phantom Theater, which was nice, but mostly it was just cold and not very entertaining.

A mostly-outdoor festival in Ohio in winter just isn't something that appeals to me. Even though I was born and grew up here, I'm just not built for the cold. There would have to be something quite fantastic to draw me to the park in winter, and I don't think it would be cost effective for the park to provide whatever that special thing would be.

[Skyrider]

And The Beach is a highly profitable operation making money hand over fist. Oh, wait.

The simple truth is Cedar Fair has taken the pencil out, sharpened it, designed park seasons to maximize fun, property and staff utilization and opportunities, and unit holder equity and distributions.

Post after post talks about demand, demand potential and workabilty. Few talk about profit potential. Paramount Parks lost a kaboodle of money om the 2005 Winterfest, but that event was HIGHLY successful. It succeeded beyond CBS's wildest dreams. It showcased two of the Paramount Parks right before the sale.

The better example is Winterfest 1.0. Many want to blame Paramount for shutting it down. Coincidental timing. Lindner and Kings Island management were already pondering shutting it. It wasn't making money anymore. Expenses had spiraled, while the revenue side was largely static. And that's where the problem is. Yes, with enough money, most things are possible. That doesn't mean they are wise.

There are many reasons Knott's Merry Farm continues and Winterfest does not. Chief among them are profit potential, weather, staffing and logistical issues...probably in that order.

And The Beach is a highly profitable operation making money hand over fist. Oh, wait.

The simple truth is Cedar Fair has taken the pencil out, sharpened it, designed park seasons to maximize fun, property and staff utilization and opportunities, and unit holder equity and distributions.

Post after post talks about demand, demand potential and workabilty. Few talk about profit potential. Paramount Parks lost a kaboodle of money om the 2005 Winterfest, but that event was HIGHLY successful. It succeeded beyond CBS's wildest dreams. It showcased two of the Paramount Parks right before the sale.

The better example is Winterfest 1.0. Many want to blame Paramount for shutting it down. Coincidental timing. Lindner and Kings Island management were already pondering shutting it. It wasn't making money anymore. Expenses had spiraled, while the revenue side was largely static. And that's where the problem is. Yes, with enough money, most things are possible. That doesn't mean they are wise.

There are many reasons Knott's Merry Farm continues and Winterfest does not. Chief among them are profit potential, weather, staffing and logistical issues...probably in that order.

Does someone need to change their name to Scrooge?

[jdf21972]

Once every 5 years would be nice. No rides just ice skating on the fountain, Christmas carols in the Festhaus, hot chocolate from Tri-state largest Starbucks next year and special gift shops with Christmas gear.

[TBW]

And The Beach is a highly profitable operation making money hand over fist. Oh, wait.

Please do not indirectly, or directly assume to have any relevant knowledge of the finances of The Beach Waterpark. Your sarcastic comment is not only pure conjecture, it is simply disrespectful.

[bkroz]

Have we determined yet if the poster with the username The Beach Waterpark is in any way affiliated with the water park of the same name in Mason, Ohio? If so, the user needs to be a bit more selective about their wording and posts here... You're literally speaking as the park. At LEAST identify yourself as "PR" in your username, and please add a signature identifying your position and name, or at least initials. As it is, your words (off-putting, snarky, and unprofessional as they can be) are being understood as official canon delivered from The Beach Waterpark and Adventure Landing.

Even with "PR" in your name, I can't imagine posting with the attitude you have in your posts. Imagine if The Beach Waterpark had an unofficial fan site and a user named "Kings Island" reprimanded and sarcastically eye-rolled users once in a while. So professional. So respectful.

If that user is not affiliated with the park, they ought to change their name.

I certainly won't be visiting The Beach Waterpark just from the dozen or so sassy posts I've read from the user of that name on here. If they're affiliated with the park, they should know that. If they're not affiliated with the park, then the park should know that.