Bolliger & Mabillard: Innovative Crowd-Pleasers for the Masses or Intamin: Creating Today's Record Breakers and Thrill Machines

[DontWantToWait42mar0]

Make an Intamin ride with B&M trains.

Boom problem solved.

[The Interpreter]

Really?

Wouldn't have fixed Maverick's initial problems.

Plus B&M will not recommend its trains on an INTAMIN ride. They don't want that liability.

[DontWantToWait42mar0]

B&M rather put people in danger for not recommending use of their trains?

[The Interpreter]

B&M would rather their trains be on a coaster they designed to THEIR safety standards. See also GCII.

[DontWantToWait42mar0]

What about Timberliners?

[silver2005]

Well, Walt Bolliger and Claude Mabillard did work for Giovanola, who did supply rides to Intamin before B&M existed by themselves, so technically they did early on. See Batman: The Escape once at Six Flags Astroworld or Flashback formerly at Six Flags Magic Mountain.

But now, they'd probably like to see Intamin put out of business (along with Mack, the combination of B&M and Mack basically have all of Intamin's models in some fashion).

That's also not to say they haven't done trains on other rides yet. They put their trains on Steel Dragon 2000, a Morgan giga coaster, in Japan.

[The Interpreter]

What about Timberliners?

How'd those work out at Holiday World?

Terp, who likes to ask questions.

[silver2005]

Mt Olympus probably has some qualms as well. Hades 360 has been at the bottom of the Mitch Hawker poll since they added them. They haven't worked well on coasters above 50 ft yet. Gravity Group in general has only had their rides pop up outside the US, mostly Asia lately. Some of those rides had to ditch Timberliners for PTC trains.

Millennium Flyers are the way to go.

[silver2005]

That testimony certainly explains a lot. I bet Intamin is kicking themselves for saying that.

[The Interpreter]

Nope. It's happened more than once.

[silver2005]

Well, if they took that kind of attitude with the testimony, I imagine they took a similar mindset explaining their other problems.

The 'acceptable' number of incidents of which they wonder about is 0.

[The Interpreter]

Which, coincidentally, is B&M's number...

[DontWantToWait42mar0]

Intamin might as well have said:

"To have the most delicious and satisfying omelet, you have to crack a few eggs."

If only their lawyers were half as good as their ride designers..

[The Interpreter]

It wasn't their lawyers but their chief USA employee. I'm sure their lawyers almost choked on their tongues when that was said.

[electricsun]

Thanks shark4695. To read that "It's impossible to avoid an accident." is a bit strange considering so many people ride their rides each year. I would think it would be good business sense to eliminate as many potential safety concerns as possible. If I said that to one of my customers or to our insurance company, that would be unacceptable on every level.

Ultimately, to the general public an accident on a ride looks poorly on the park, not the ride manufacturer. That is quite a risk to take if the manufacturer believes there is an acceptable level of accidents.

[shark6495]

Exactly.

And to answer why I included non-coasters has been pointed out. The company as a whole has to be considered when purchasing rides.

I'm sure CF loves the negative light of having a boat flip on its riders.

[The Interpreter]

Don't forget a Perilous Plunge!

[McSalsa]

Mt Olympus probably has some qualms as well. Hades 360 has been at the bottom of the Mitch Hawker poll since they added them. They haven't worked well on coasters above 50 ft yet. Gravity Group in general has only had their rides pop up outside the US, mostly Asia lately. Some of those rides had to ditch Timberliners for PTC trains.

Millennium Flyers are the way to go.

Just to be fair, Old-Fashioned Hades was really only doing well on that poll probably because you don't need to ride a coaster that year to rate it and it was probably still getting votes/ratings for its early performances before it got super rough. By the time they did the Hades 360 transition, I heard it had already become super rough, but what this means is the Timberliners didn't work at all at reducing roughness.

Though Gwazi also suggests Millennium Flyers alone do not fix overly-rough woodies either...

[RollerNut]

Thunderhead at Dollywood on the two times I rode were nearly polar opposites. One time was smooth, the other was rough but still fun. Both rides were on the day but one was wet and cold. The other was sunny and between cold and warm.

[silver2005]

I will say they improved Hershey's Wildcat a bit, though I actually preferred it with the PTC trains. I liked that extra bit of roughness on that particular ride.

[APE]

I don't care what B&M does they will never give me that same first ride feeling that the Intamins do when they go up. I am however a person that enjoys a more intense coaster thus my two favorite coasters are Maverick and Voyage.

[McSalsa]

Hmm...I really wish I could have more of an opinion on this topic, but having only been to 3 parks (Kings Island, Holiday World, and Indiana Beach WAY back in '99) my experience with these two is very limited. Only 2 B&M coasters, both at KI, and no Intamin coasters period (though I have been on several flat rides and water rides they built)...this is part of the reason I really want to get up to Cedar Point (3 more B&M's and 4 Intamins- in fact looking at it, they are really the ONLY park in the region that has a large Intamin coaster selection...)...

However, I can clearly see where I'd want to go if I was a park owner. Intamin's recent issues with Maverick (needed a section of track replaced prior to opening), Pilgrims Plunge (closed after less than 5 years), Intimidator 305 (needed modifications in only its 2nd season, cable broke after only 3 years of use), Perilous Plunge (removed, fatal accident), Zumanjaro (cannot run alongside Kingda Ka, lowering the capacity of both rides), and Falcon's Fury (numerous issues and a heavily delaying opening) do not at all make them appealing if I was a park owner. Meanwhile, the only problem I can think B&M has even had would be the Wing Coaster restraints...which according to most has been fixed with at least Gatekeeper & Banshee.

Though as a rider, I have enjoyed every Intamin and B&M creation I have been on so far. Then again so far, outside of The Crypt & a Roll-O-Plane at a carnival (OUCH! Most painful ride I ever took ever. Worse than 2011 Voyage. By far.), I have liked everything.

[shark6495]

I have freely admitted on here that I have very little idea of which rides are made by which company.

My favorite ride hands down is The Bat and/or Big Bad Wolf followed by The Beast. Top Thrill Dragster and Banshee tie for the next spot.

One of the worst rides I have been on was Raptor (just didn't enjoy it) and Maverick.

[Hendrick]

Meanwhile, the only problem I can think B&M has even had would be the Wing Coaster restraints...which according to most has been fixed with at least Gatekeeper & Banshee.

And that "issue" was a comfort problem, not a safety one. B&M's safety record speaks for itself.

[McSalsa]

Meanwhile, the only problem I can think B&M has even had would be the Wing Coaster restraints...which according to most has been fixed with at least Gatekeeper & Banshee.

And that "issue" was a comfort problem, not a safety one. B&M's safety record speaks for itself.

Yeah- I'd rather be slightly uncomfortable with a ride than thrown out of the seat by it. But B&M themselves have proven it is possible to make a ride with comfy seats and still not toss riders with their hypers- Diamondback has some pretty comfy seating and restraints IMO, and no B&M hyper has yet to throw anyone out. Probably because B&M knows the "safe" G-force limits and sticks to them...

[MDMC01]

I voted for Intamin because my favorite coaster (Maverick) is an Intamin, but honestly, both companies have really good rides. On Intamin's side, we have Drop Tower, Millennium Force, Volcano, Disaster Transport and, as I mentioned previously, Maverick. On team B&M, we have Banshee, Batman (SFGAM), and the Incredible Hulk, plus Kumba looks cool and though I've not yet ridden one (that will hopefully change this summer...) floorless coasters have always seemed cool to me. So, in the end, I guess it doesn't really matter to me as there are good rides that have been made by either manufacturer.

[NoChickens]

,..... Zumanjaro (cannot run alongside Kingda Ka, lowering the capacity of both rides), .......

I believe the problem here is actually New Jersey's ride inspectors not wanting the train passing overhead while people are on Zumanjaro. I could be wrong, but I think that is what I heard. The rides themselves are capable of running simultaneously, they are just not allowed to. Anyone able to confirm this?

[The Interpreter]

Confirmed.

And fixed for 2015.

Or so I hear.

[shark6495]

Who is responsible for checking the plans out with the state safety board? The company building it or the person requesting it?

[The Interpreter]

In New Jersey?

They inspect OPERATING rides.

First you build it. There can be no assurance they will EVER approve it for public operation.

New Jersey and California, in that order, are the most challenging US environments for park operators.