Steph88 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 ^ I wonder if we will see some of those trains modified in the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontWantToWait42mar0 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Makes me wonder if some serious accident were to happen at Kings Island, who would be the rescue workers, and where will they be coming from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Makes me wonder if some serious accident were to happen at Kings Island, who would be the rescue workers, and where will they be coming from? KI pays it's property tax, that should give you an idea who all would (and has came) come to the aid in case of an emergency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCandyManCan Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I don't know which is worse..a potential operator error or a serious manufacturer defect regarding this accident. Both are horrible and shouldn't be able to happen. Hearing one amputation and two others still in the hospital with this poor woman is just terrible news. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron88stang Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 The more I read about this, the more I am convinced it was operator error. This is a very sad situation for all involved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 http://metro.co.uk/2015/06/04/alton-towers-smiler-rollercoaster-crash-victim-who-broke-both-legs-speaks-out-for-first-time-5230644/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIBeast Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Sorry, should have clarified, I meant standard sit-down coaster cars. Not floorless, inverted, or wing coasters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcgoble3 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Makes me wonder if some serious accident were to happen at Kings Island, who would be the rescue workers, and where will they be coming from? City of Mason Fire Department would respond to any incident requiring outside assistance, as they already do when a guest requires emergency medical treatment that the park's First Aid station is not equipped to provide. In a major accident like this, it would be up to Mason FD to call in mutual aid from other nearby departments if they feel they need the extra help. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver2005 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I imagine UC Air Care might be involved with that kind of thing as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcgoble3 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 ^ Yes, that too. I wasn't sure who or what provided medical helicopters for the Cincy area. I know that for the Dayton area, helicopter transport is provided by Miami Valley Hospital's CareFlight team, but KI is probably a bit south of their area of coverage. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver2005 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 UC covers pretty much the entire tri-state area. They've gone as far as places like Florence, KY, Middletown, Ohio, and parts of Indiana. UC also has a hospital in West Chester. The Air Care operates out of Butler County Regional Airport, though they do tend to stay around the Clifton hospital. They could get to KI pretty quickly from wherever though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCandyManCan Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 So judging by the articles what I'm reading now. A defect can still be plausible. So far we just have bystander and random twitter posts. I take everything with a grain of salt until the official reports come out. Not discrediting anyone, however I'll keep a reserved judgement. If the reports presented are correct then we have a HUGE operational error. If the train stopped and was held on the lift that means the train valleyed and did not get into the next block triggering the PLC to show a cleared block from the lift hill to the brake before the second lift, as the system should be designed to do. This most likely setup the ride and locked all brakes down and stopped the lift. Notice though this could have happened two ways, I haven't been to the park to see how it operates normally, so going off of Youtube I see two ways. 1. Stopped at lift bottom. If you notice, the lift chain isn't set to jog and let the chain dog on the train engage and start climbing. It jogs up when the train is stopped at the base and then engages and hoists the train up the lift hill. I doubt this though as it'd lower the capacity on the ride drastically versus getting to the top once the next block is clear. 2. It stops, engages, and climbs. However when reaching the sensors before lift crest the train is detected by these sensors and has not received a block clear as the first train has valleyed. From here the ride sets up as described and the train is stopped on the lift. Notice this ride does not feature anti rollbacks, but contains eddy current brakes to slowly control the ride if it does end up going down the hill. The chain dog stays coupled to the chain to keep the train in place. Then with the ride setup either way, the ride will not dispatch from the station or allow any train movement other than what is necessary to clear blocks as outlined in the rides operating procedures. Usually this means moving the trains behind the setup block (safety brake, transfer table, etc) and then clearing the blocks. However for my understanding clearing the blocks is NEVER done by ride operations except on a restart or first thing in the morning before trains are moved (when the ride is turned on in the morning, the blocks are automatically setup). So this would mean someone cleared the blocks, the fault, and enabled the lift to continue pulling the train over to drop it into the circuit. Considering it wouldn't know the location of the valleyed train, this would lead the ride to think there is a clear block after the lift, and thus, we have a collision. It sadly looks like MAJOR operational error, which shouldn't have happened to begin with. If this ride was cleared and the train sent, all pressure will be on those who dispatched and enabled movement of the train. The safety system did what it was supposed to do and was purposefully bypassed after the ride system entered a failsafe. The only other scenario I've already described is if the ride was run in maintenance mode or a full manual mode, which shouldn't be allowed to happen with loaded trains by operations EVER. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoF96" Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I see number 2 being possible. It should be noted that even in normal maintence mode. Blocks will still take precedence and not allow two trains in one block. For example when maintence worked on Mile High Falls if they were adding the second boat no matter how long they held onto lift enable the lift would not start until the previous boat was all the way into the station. The blocks would first have to be cleared before it would allow full manual control. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCandyManCan Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Not all rides are created equal in terms of maintenance mode. Most follow this precedence, but not all. Again, I haven't worked this ride, or any Gerstlauer for that matter to know how they operate. I can name one ride off hand that allows full manual control when that key is used. However, unless maintenance was operating the ride, operations does not have that key to enable this mode. We will have to wait and see what happens regarding this though, again, I just use existing knowledge and insights and what I see on Youtube of how this ride operates. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollerNut Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I am surprised they are keeping the whole park closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennett Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Last thing they want in the middle of this is a bunch of people trying to get over there to see waht happened, and what is going on with the investigation. Let them do their job, then, re-open the park when that is done. This is bad, folks, as bad as it gets in this industry. Don't question that for a second. The ramifications from this will be forever, and, for every park in the world. Accidents like that just simply cannot happen. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCandyManCan Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Unless you're the President of Intamin Americas Someone fetch that quote for me... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pez Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 There is a fire station at Columbia and Kings Mills. If you're at the Chipotle and look straight out across the empty field, you could see it. It is within a mile of KI. The nearest hospital/ER is probably Arrow Springs one off ramp to the north. Probably 5-6 miles, but it is unlikely emergency vehicles would be substantially impeded by traffic. Wide lanes and few lights. If a lot of people are injured, they probably go to UC West Chester/Cincy Childrens - West Chester, maybe 8-10 miles, but traffic would be much more of an issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCandyManCan Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Man it's going to be a shame if they tear this ride down, the theming for this is incredible. I mean look at this! This isn't even recent, this was while it was testing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoF96" Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I agree! However if it is found to have been a ride systems malfunction they are going to have a hard time finding a reason for keeping it. It at least seems that they do genuinely care about their guests safety with the whole park being closed until they figure out if they need to retrain operations or single in on the Smiler itself. And if their intentions are simply to keep guest from being nosy in the investigation they at least have a pretty good PR person trying to make the best out of this horrible situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Or...since it is being investigated to see if the coaster was lawfully being operated, the choice to not open the park was made for it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acfinn Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 This is just pure speculation on my part but if they did not feel like human error was at least in part the reason for the accident then they would not close the whole park. They would just do an inspection on the rest of the rides. This long delay leads me to believe that the investigators are leaning in the direction that the ride was not operated properly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCandyManCan Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Not exactly true..this accident caused amputations* (potential multiple). It's smart to keep it all closed. Then on top of it all, it keeps public and media away from that ride at the moment to generate any press other than text and stock pictures. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Not to mention that until the investigation is complete they may not be able to legally clean the area. If there is a lot of blood there are certain ways an area has to be cleaned... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanna Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I'm sick that those four people got hurt. There's no telling the extent of the long term injuries- I know there's an alleged amputation, but I'm also thinking of the "crush"described. Compacted, broken bones, muscles giving way to the impact, etc.. That has long term effects, and these people have entire lives ahead of them to deal with it. It's all Rashomon right now, everyone sees something different. There's no way I can speculate with all of these different points of view right now. They sent several empty carriages through, right? Before they sent the carriage loaded with people? Are there cameras positioned to view different parts of the track? I know it's a difficult question, we have no Alton Towers workers regularly haunting this forum. edit: Answered my own question Quote from trotters98 on Towertimes Forum "Having been in the operators cabin on a work experience placement last year, I can say that there is two large screens displaying around 30 live images from around the track, so the operator can see the majority of the track. Whether the op was at fault or not is another question..." 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homestar92 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 A few other coasters at Thorpe Park and Chessington (both Merlin parks, as is Alton Towers) have been closed now, including Saw, which is another Gerstlauer. The two at Chessington are Maurer-Sohne coasters. Saw makes sense, but I find it interesting that they would specifically cherry-pick the other two coasters to close. I wonder if this means they've learned something and that they feel those particular coasters have the potential to cause a similar issue... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron88stang Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 A few other coasters at Thorpe Park and Chessington (both Merlin parks, as is Alton Towers) have been closed now, including Saw, which is another Gerstlauer. The two at Chessington are Maurer-Sohne coasters. Saw makes sense, but I find it interesting that they would specifically cherry-pick the other two coasters to close. I wonder if this means they've learned something and that they feel those particular coasters have the potential to cause a similar issue... They are all shorter trains with multiple trains on the course at once. It sounds like a change in operating procedure will be implemented on these rides. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Or...since it is being investigated to see if the coaster was lawfully being operated, the choice to not open the park was made for it. http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-06-05/hse-to-remove-crashed-alton-towers-roller-coaster-cars/ The Notice is specific to The Smiler ride and does not affect other rides at the park. HSE expects the park operator to apply any early learning from the incident to wider risk management at the site. The decision about when to re-open the Park is for the owners to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 There is what one tells the public. And there are nudges. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron88stang Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Will the findings of this report by the HSE be made public? i have no idea how that works... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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