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WDW: Alligator reportedly drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon


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For conversation sake, is this considered swimming?

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No, but if I were approaching a body of water and saw a sign post sticking out of the water that said "No Swimming," I wouldn't do that^ in the water. Is it considered swimming? No. Would I infer that, by No Swimming they meant "This is not a body of water to get in / play in / swim in / splash in?" Yes. There's no right or wrong answer here. 

 

I get it. I'm only saying that for me and probably many others, "No Swimming" would keep me out of the water period. "Well, it doesn't say anything about boogie boarding!" To me, No Swimming means keep out. I realize that's not true of all or maybe even most people and is not defensible in court. Obviously it wasn't enough to deter this family and I don't at all blame them for it. Bad signage. Fair enough. 

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There is that which may be legally sufficient.

There is that which is morally right--the right thing to do.

Could YOU sleep at night if "No Swimming" signs were legally sufficient ( not saying they were), but a little boy is dead and his family and friends grieving because you didn't say "Alligators! STAY OUT OF THE WATER!"?

And even if something is legal, isn't it also best to prevent court battles over things like adequacy of warnings when a few words on a sign may have done just that?

Terp, who likes to ask questions.

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I agree whole heartedly. I was using that as a reference of why, maybe, the no swimming sign wasn't enough. If I saw a no swimming sign but saw people out on the water earlier I wouldn't think it would be for any other reason than maybe boating traffic. As in "oh yeah it says no swimming well that makes sense there are so many boats".

Open water like that always worries me. We hated life Guarding a man made lake with terrible visibility and no life threatening creatures. Just too much can go wrong

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Put another way, the wording on a sign about the extras and cost of a sundae is an interesting academic discussion.

The wording on a sign at a lagoon where real live alligators are known by management to frequent is a life and death issue.

Yes, Disney unquestionably knew there were alligators there from time to time.

Did they also know people WERE entering the water? How could they not know?

Perhaps worse, was Disney itself taking measures to make guest entry into the water more enticing?

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I have lived on the Southern shores of Lake Erie my entire life and have been a boater/ active visitor to Presque Isle since 1979.

I am used to various water restrictions such as:

What to the colored flags on the beach lifeguard stands mean?

The flags indicate water conditions.

Green flag means normal swimming conditions.

Yellow flag means some restrictions due to hazardous conditions.

Red flag means the area is closed due to extreme hazardous conditions.

No flag means that no lifeguard is on duty and no swimming permitted

http://www.presqueisle.org/about/frequently-asked-questions/

These restrictions typically are about water conditions effected by weather or elevated e-coli counts.

This is where it gets tricky: swimming is not allowed at unguarded beaches, but certain areas that are unguarded do allow boats to anchor off the beach & enjoy the water/ beach/ nature. All these boaters get to the beach by wading from their boat. This is considered legal by Presque Isle Park Police which have the same rights as PA State Police.

We also have various waterways for fishing. Most of them have no swimming signs posted due to the constantly changing water depths. These same waterways will allow fishing using hip waders where those fishing will literally be in the water past their knees but below their waist. Some waterways do not allow fishing at all and will have a sign sayin no fishing/ do not enter the water.

So just in my neck of the woods I am used to numerous signage regarding water restrictions based upon certain dangers.

Knowing that not every Disney guest speaks English and are literally from all corners of the globe, I am surprised that a simple "no swimming" sign was thought to be adequate. And even though Florida is certainly known for gators does not mean everyone understands it or realizes that Disney allows certain water activities and does not remove all gators (which seems crazy- but many do believe this) from their waterways.

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The irony of Facebook..

 

For those who don't use it, when you click a link that someone shared on Facebook, it pops up with some related stuff that "people also shared". This is what one got after clicking a link about the new fences. I captured this screenshot on my phone earlier...

 

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Personally, I think just some "Warning: Alligators" signs would be enough. Actually, the "No Swimming" signs were enough, but since people ignore them, beef up the signs with why you shouldn't enter the water.

No. Because when the tram driver told me not to walk back to my Disney campsite after dark, he said there were gators.

I was at Disney, I thought he was joking. Maybe he was. This was back in mid- 70's.

It's all so themey- when he said that, I thought if anything it would be a guy in costume going "Tick Tock".

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The gators may be able to climb the fences, but the fences will keep people out of the water, so that's good. The new signage looks great too, I like that they added the snake warning. A lot of people wrongly assume they'll see something as big as an alligator if there's one nearby, but a snake can go unnoticed.

 

It's good to see they're getting around to fixing the problems so quickly.

 

I do wonder what their plan for the tubers and skiiers will be. Are they at risk?

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I have never been to Orlando and am unfamiliar with Disney's history there. For those that are, why was central Florida chosen as the site? It appears boating, beaches, watersports etc are a big part of the Disney experience. Florida sure has a lot of coastline, why wasn't a coastal area chosen?

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I have never been to Orlando and am unfamiliar with Disney's history there. For those that are, why was central Florida chosen as the site? It appears boating, beaches, watersports etc are a big part of the Disney experience. Florida sure has a lot of coastline, why wasn't a coastal area chosen?

Some info, but much of the decision had to do with money:

 

http://mentalfloss.com/article/28174/why-walt-disney-built-theme-park-swampland

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I have never been to Orlando and am unfamiliar with Disney's history there. For those that are, why was central Florida chosen as the site? It appears boating, beaches, watersports etc are a big part of the Disney experience. Florida sure has a lot of coastline, why wasn't a coastal area chosen?

Because of the vast amount of land that could be purchased at minimal cost.  Walt formed a least 3 small false real-estate companies that were used to purchase the land.  That way he could purchase hundreds of acres without using the "Disney" name preventing land prices from spiking.  He literally bought thousands of acres for mere dollars - some of which had to have in-depth research done to find the descendants of the original owners who didn't even know they had inherited it.

 

The site was chosen for it's remote location, size, adjacency to the interstate, cost, and developmental opportunities.   The area was all swampland - and since the land could be purchased so cheap, it meant that more money could be budgeted to developing the land.  Also, because the land was undeveloped, and not commercialized or zoned, Disney was able to basically create their own "rules" without the interference of the state government.  The only hurdle they really faced - which they still face today - is that a good portion of it had to remain undeveloped as a natural habitat of Florida.  Thus Gators trump Disney.

 

Walt Disney was an amazingly smart - and forward thinking man.  What he pulled off in Florida (even after his death) is nothing short of genius.

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The only hurdle they really faced - which they still face today - is that a good portion of it had to remain undeveloped as a natural habitat of Florida.  Thus Gators trump Disney.

Walt Disney was an amazingly smart - and forward thinking man.  What he pulled off in Florida (even after his death) is nothing short of genius.

 

 

The company has even found a way around that restriction.  The company built the Disney Wilderness Preserve which is currently an 11,500 acre preserve, 3,000 of which is due to the airport expansion.  This is a separate piece of property which is south of the theme parks.  What they did was trade development rights on land on their property for purchasing the land and turning it into a preserve back in the early 1990s.  They still have some left over credit which is currently being used to expand Hollywood Studios.

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I read a great book about the development of WDW (I think it was called "Married to the Mouse").  Evidently, Disney World almost ended up in St. Louis.

 

Here is an online article I found about it, as well:  http://www.orlandosentinel.com/travel/attractions/the-daily-disney/os-walt-disney-world-almost-in-st-louis-20151207-story.html

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I read a great book about the development of WDW (I think it was called "Married to the Mouse").  Evidently, Disney World almost ended up in St. Louis.

 

Here is an online article I found about it, as well:  http://www.orlandosentinel.com/travel/attractions/the-daily-disney/os-walt-disney-world-almost-in-st-louis-20151207-story.html

Was it Realityland by David Koenig?
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  • 2 weeks later...

So the story changes, a certain TV judge says the truth doesn't change as time tick tocks away. I have questioned a foul play from the start but this makes me wonder more.

 

Tick tock,

Disney gator.

You meant that, didn't you?

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When I spoke to my mom about this (she's the one who got me to be an amusement park person) she instantly said something along the lines of this doesn't seem right, maybe the parents were hiding something.

I really hope not. I hope his was some weird animal accident. As I raise my son and look forward to our second I can't take anymore parents killing their kids stories

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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