Winterfest ... sinking faster than the Titanic

[StXsteven]

I'm sorry you can call me rude or w/e you want, but the guy posted an honest review, and gave advice, so I think you should back off a bit.(I'm still reading the first page, so I'm talking about the writer on the first page)

You people are not thinking straight.

"It is the first year for the event"

- Familyman

uhh... no...

"You must realize people had less than a month to get this done. "

- KIemployeeforlife

Whose fault is that? If they arn't ready or prepared then it shouldnt be opened...

You people keep saying winterfest hasnt been there in 13 years.. so? Get some people to make it right??

If its not better than what it was 13 years ago, then it shouldnt be opened, its 13 years later, theyu have more money, and more technology.

I haven't been to winterfest yet, so I can't say if its good or not, but so far everyone agrees with the first writer, but are tryin to find excuses

[Gordon Bombay]

^Ok Einstein, uhm, thank you for your comments, however before you whine why dont you read the whole topic. This is a message board, people have the right to argue and state opinions, i can rag on Titanics posts as much as i want considering they have no backing or fact in them, and he can say what he likes to me, we havent violated anything in the T.O.S.

[hauntguy]

Although Christmas is the least of my favorite holidays and I hate the Winter season... Winterfest was actually alot of fun! I maybe fell and busted my ass 50 billion times while skating... but it's all good! I can't beleive how much "STUFF" PKI has put out for outdoor lighting and decor. and some parts of the park during Fearfest were so.... DULL!

Oh well, I had fun! I also reccomend it to everybody! My little brother LOVED Santa's Workshop! You should of seen his face... it was glowing! PKI really took him "out of his world" and put him into a very magical place, he did not want to leave! They could have done a little more with the train... but it was all good! -Hauntguy

[TQZ]

Maybe they do want the event to tank?

I think you may be on to something... Look how long people have been begging for Winterfest to come back. Perhaps Paramount says, ok, we will shut them up, bring it back, prove it to be a flop, and be done with it. Its a lot of money to bring it back though, so who knows.

What I see happening in this thread could be defined as the self fulfilling prophecy. If you believe it will be great, it will be great, no matter what. No one can tell you different. Being a fan-site, negativity is not taken too well, but we have established that already. Titanic has his right to an opinion, and it may be a valid one at that.

From the time winterfest was announced there was much positive and much negative on this site. Most of it was because the were charging so much to get in. Others were concerned that Paramount would screw it up. And you know what, paramount probably will, they are indeed a business, but someone in marketing must have been smoking something.

Lets look at the holiday season for now, but this can be applied to all marketing rules. During the holiday season you see most of the best deals in stores. They just want to stimulate the market, and sell, sell, sell. PKI should be doing the same thing in some sort of way, whether it be parking or admission or whatever. Lets say they still dont allow season passes, but instead charge 10 bucks a person. Parking at 5 bucks is fine, because like someone said, the will probably need to scrape the lot for snow. So now a visit is the cost of a fancy meal for one night. I would guarantee double if not triple the number of people attending. At the current prices, 3:1 makes 30:20 making it more of a profit, and more people to buy junk in the park. You get the point. Its like gas stations without credit card readers generally have cheaper gas. Why? To get people in the store and buy merchandise. The fact is, the cost to run the event will remain the same. The hype about, buy now or it may get sold out, isnt going to work either. Why would you sell out if people are willing to pay? That is stupid. And if you have cheaper tickets, you are more likely to have people want to invite people (like when family is in town) to go see it. You dont need to charge more, your name will bring your customers. Sure you could go to the zoo, but people know what is there.

I guess what they are banking on is the high demand they had for winterfest, and you know how supply and DEMAND works. If the demand is there, then they will pay anything to have it.

Its simple, charge less, and get more people... More people in turn brings more money eventually.

As far as the season pass deal. I wish they would have season pass days or whatever, but I am sure they lose enough money on me in the summer time with my season pass. Its almost not worth them selling me one, because the will lose money. My visits are worth about 4 bucks each by time the summer is over. And I dont buy any merchandise, because its overpriced. I dont buy food either, because for the 6 bucks on pretzel and pop, i can get like 5 tacos at taco bell, or 5 cheeseburgers from mcdonalds.

Now, I must admit that I havent been to winterfest yet, but I do plan on going. I have had some financial problems lately, and im scrounging up enough to go to winterfest but I will go. I cannot comment on the quality of the show, but from the pictures it looks like it would be a good atmosphere to enjoy for a night.

my $0.05

[Outdoor Man]

eh... love it or hate it.... paramount has spent too much money on this to be a "told you so" lesson.

I think too many are expecting them to pick up where they left off 13 years ago. Same idea, but I beg to doubt that most of the supplies from 13 years ago still exist.. therefore, even though it is a "old" event brought back... it's basically starting from scratch. And ANYONE who has seen the pictures on this site (even if you haven't been there yet)- you have to be impressed with the effort being placed forward. I live 90 minutes north of PKI and WHIO TV runs spots of Winterfest at least twice an hour.... Kroger has posters EVERYWHERE.... I think that this year will e the best the they could possibly put together for a first-year run. Maybe next year the park will not be open that first weekend in November to give more prep time... a week would make a big diff.... and the last two years, wasn't it soooo cold anyway that the park shut down early?

[Stitch]

I like the Griswold house's Christmas lights better

[A_Titanic_Mess]

Perhaps this will silence some of my critics who think I am making up my employment with PKI. As you can see, I have blacked-out some information to protect my identity. Of course I am sure that I will be accused of finding this on the web, or making it up myself.

As I have said in my previous posts, I have been involved with many of the events at the park. This weekends Winterfest grand opening was less than stellar, and the lack of attendance will be a concern for park management. I would assume that Winterfest is part of the 2005 operating budget, so the Resale division will be under pressure to perform. Fortunatly for merchandise, it appears they have "leased" much of their retail space to outside vendors. Food service should be a bit worried about the Festhaus. The big draw for the Festhaus at the original Winterfest was that the stage show was located there. The haus was packed for every show, with lines to purchase food all the way to the front doors. Friday night (and I also hear Saturday night as well) at the Festhaus were pretty slow. At one time on Friday evening, we couted less than 20 guests in the Festhaus.

The thought of bringing back Winterfest has been going around for years. Many of the same operational issues that plagued the original Winterfest will still be an issue for the new one. Although the much abreviated operating calendar for the new Winterfest may aleviate some of those problems. But with the shorter operating schedule comes the responsibility of making the most of every minute the park is open. This did not happen Friday night. It was almost like a dry-run.

At any rate, I did not care for the event, and felt it was not up to the level of the original event. For those that loved it, great, I hope you will continue to give your business to Winterfest so it will stay around for years to come. All I was trying to say, as someone who has been there, that this will not be looked upon as a successful opening weekend. And they have very few weekends left to get it right.

[A_Titanic_Mess]

Click this link to go to the image from the above post....

My Webpage

[Scooby_Doo]

CHILL OUT!

FearFest SUCKED the first year. Things like this get better and better with each season. You are the first bad review!

Er No it didnt FearFest in its first year was better than what FearFest has become.As for winterfest I cannot judge it just yet I have yet to go.

[StXsteven]

Personally I think they need to take the money back from winterfest and put it into fearfest, but hey thats just me..

[BoddaH1994]

I'm sorry you can call me rude or w/e you want, but the guy posted an honest review, and gave advice, so I think you should back off a bit.(I'm still reading the first page, so I'm talking about the writer on the first page)

You people are not thinking straight.

"It is the first year for the event"

- Familyman

uhh... no...

Very few people who were around for the first WF are around for this one, plus all of the old decorations were thrown away or donated, so I agree with Familyman, as far as I'm concerned, this is as close to at 1st year event as you can get.

"You must realize people had less than a month to get this done. "

- KIemployeeforlife

Whose fault is that? If they arn't ready or prepared then it shouldnt be opened...

They have been preparing for Winterfest for a very long time. Setup began back during Fearfest. It wouldn't be reasonable for you to assume that they rushed anything. They had a certain timeframe and had to stick with it. I have only gone during media day, and if it's "not finished" as some people claim, I still wouldn't have been mad paying $20 for admission.

You people keep saying winterfest hasnt been there in 13 years.. so? Get some people to make it right??

If its not better than what it was 13 years ago, then it shouldnt be opened, its 13 years later, theyu have more money, and more technology.

Winterfest is bigger than it ever was in the 80s and early 90s. I think they're already doing exactly what you're suggesting.

I haven't been to winterfest yet, so I can't say if its good or not, but so far everyone agrees with the first writer, but are tryin to find excuses

Give it a shot! I really enjoyed myself and I intend to go back several times. I'm already looking forward to it.

I think you may be on to something... Look how long people have been begging for Winterfest to come back. Perhaps Paramount says, ok, we will shut them up, bring it back, prove it to be a flop, and be done with it. Its a lot of money to bring it back though, so who knows.

What I see happening in this thread could be defined as the self fulfilling prophecy. If you believe it will be great, it will be great, no matter what. No one can tell you different. Being a fan-site, negativity is not taken too well, but we have established that already. Titanic has his right to an opinion, and it may be a valid one at that.

I think the theory is a little far fetched but your 2nd point is very true. If anyone came on here with a negative opinion about anything to do with PKI, they'd get destroyed on the forums. Of course, there is always that handful that you can't please. Being a supporter of the park, it would be irresponsible of me or the rest of the PKIC staff to have headline news that is not in the best interest of PKI. In fact, we don't support everything that goes on at PKI, but rather than badmouth it, we just don't make any kind of fuss or hype about it.

At any rate, I did not care for the event, and felt it was not up to the level of the original event. For those that loved it, great, I hope you will continue to give your business to Winterfest so it will stay around for years to come. All I was trying to say, as someone who has been there, that this will not be looked upon as a successful opening weekend. And they have very few weekends left to get it right.

I'm actually glad that you have a different opinion than everybody else. It makes it interesting. Unfortunately things get personal on here very quickly. So, aside from pricing, what would you do to improve the event?

This weekends Winterfest grand opening was less than stellar, and the lack of attendance will be a concern for park management.

We really have no idea what attendance they forecasted for the first weekend. Personally I think the marketing of the event was a little jacked up. WAY too many people were asking the employees what Winterfest was when they saw the signs. Plus TV and paper ads should have started a month ago. I don't think the quality of the event affected

Let me remind everyone that Winterfest isn't about rides, it's about LIVE SHOWS, so if you don't enjoy live shows and spectacle, it may not be the event for you. Personally, I would invite anyone to at least check it out. Most of you on here are season pass holders, so the price is about the same as a night out anywhere else. A lot of people have put countless hours into this event, so please don't judge it before you get to experience it.

[Delirium_Guy]

I think the concerns over price are very valid. I've spoken to a few people and they've all echoed the same thing, spending almost $25. The other thing that totally SUCKED was the fact that you had to PRE-SELECT which day you wanted to attend and purchase specific day tickets. That is absolutely ridiculous, I'm sorry. Things come up, plans change. Its very unfair for the Park to expect guests to make that choice.

When I think of a Christmas event, I think Festival of Lights or Holidayfest. Enjoying the atmosphere and enjoying the LIGHTS. Not a stage show, not a parade, but just walking around outside and taking it all in. I'm not saying those things are bad, but to me, they don't justify spending $25 for it.

I agree 100% that the Park has over priced the event, only time will tell if that comes back to bite them in the ass or not. I honestly wish them the best and hope the event is a success.

[FOF/Z 4-ever]

Look, the price really is not that bad for what you can do there. I am planning on going back several times. But you also have to remember that PKI had a very short time to get this ready and I think they have outdone themselves. I really did not know what to expect from them, but I was amazed at what they did. It really did take my breath away. Im just sorry that some people on this site can appreaciate the same stuff. I loved it and please PKI, keep up the great work. You have yet let me down!

[TQZ]

The other thing that totally SUCKED was the fact that you had to PRE-SELECT which day you wanted to attend and purchase specific day tickets.  That is absolutely ridiculous, I'm sorry.  Things come up, plans change.  Its very unfair for the Park to expect guests to make that choice.

Although it may contradict what I said previously(I was talking about a marketing POV), about the "buy now for sell-out" presale tickets but I must counteract what you state there about things coming up.

Have you ever gone to a concert? You bought tickets in advance didnt you? This is no different. You just make plans to go on that day. I agree that the WEATHER can change, but if you go to a concert at riverbend, its the same difference. I know it seems like apples to oranges here, but it is the same point.

Im done arguing.

Winterfest will only be as good as you make it.

[WooferBearATL]

Personally I think they need to take the money back from winterfest and put it into fearfest, but hey thats just me..

And my opinion is that Fearfest should be abandoned and the focus should be placed on setting up for Winterfest.

[CoastersRZ]

I don`t necessarily think that they should abandon FearFest, as I find the haunts to be quite fun. I think that their decision to open the park the first weekend in November might not have been the best decision as it allowed them less time to transform the park from spooky chills to a winter wonderland.

[Outdoor Man]

I don't think they should abandon FearFest.... I have never really been to the fearfest event specifically for that... but I think it is worth-while... i DO think that they should abandon the "let's be open the first weekend of November though." I know I'm talking to the wrong crowd on this one, but no one really wants to get frost bite while riding a roller coaster... keeping in mind that a good percentage of the population on this site would frequent the water park during WinterFest if it were open.

I do have to differ with saying that the price is good for the event. I have a young family. But some of my friends have 3 children.... that's $125 just to get in the door.... which they may do once.... and ONLY once. If pass members were allowed to get in, i really think it would increase the bottom line. People would make several visits and lay down other dollars once in the park.

They'll come around. Remember the absurd rules they had for the first FearFest? "let's clear the entire park out... then only let paying customers back in"???

[CoastersRZ]

The chief reason that they are charging pass holders, is so that the park is not overwhelmed with guests. PKI has a large amoount of season pass holders. PKI did not want the event to be swamped with people, so they decided to charge for the event to thin out some of the season pass holders that would not be willing to pay to attend the event, thus reducing the crowds at the park with the limited number of attractions that would be open. As a side benefit, the park would make a little extra cash.

[Outdoor Man]

they probably could have made a few more dollars with.... say a $15 admission. $25 is WAY too much.

[BoddaH1994]

I think the concerns over price are very valid. I've spoken to a few people and they've all echoed the same thing, spending almost $25. The other thing that totally SUCKED was the fact that you had to PRE-SELECT which day you wanted to attend and purchase specific day tickets. That is absolutely ridiculous, I'm sorry. Things come up, plans change. Its very unfair for the Park to expect guests to make that choice.

When I think of a Christmas event, I think Festival of Lights or Holidayfest. Enjoying the atmosphere and enjoying the LIGHTS. Not a stage show, not a parade, but just walking around outside and taking it all in. I'm not saying those things are bad, but to me, they don't justify spending $25 for it.

I agree 100% that the Park has over priced the event, only time will tell if that comes back to bite them in the ass or not. I honestly wish them the best and hope the event is a success.

I think you can still get any day tickets for $19.99 if you buy them in advance. To my knowledge, you can buy them at Krogers on the way there and still get the same price. I admit that $25 is a little high, but this is one of those deals where if you play your cards right, you can get a good deal... especially for passholders.

[SML828]

Or buy them the day of, for that specific day, on pki.com for $17.99.

[coasterville]

SML828, they have closed that loophole.

I looked on the website on Saturday and they had taken specific day tickets for the first weekend off the web. So no you can't just buy a specific day ticket on the morning of your visit. They have also instituted as of last night (possibly earlier) a 3 day advance sale requirement to get the $19.99 price via the web. IF you intend to use the ticket less than 72 hours after purchase, the web rate is $22.99. I don't know how this affects off site ticket sales, such as at Krogers. (Walk up gaste price is $24.99)

I read, but did not confirm that they are selling season passholders discounted tickets at the gate for $18.99.

For this event, it pays to do your homework when it comes to figuring out how to pay for it all.

[Captain Picard]

I don't know why people think they only worked on this in November. There was a pic of the plans posted here then removed shortly after back before the park opened for the season.

The cost is too high for 4 hrs, but what would you do if you had more time?

If they only bring in 2000 a night they will probably make money.

[WooferBearATL]

I think that you will see them dropping addmission for Season Pass holders in the near future. If not this year, they will likely drop charging addmission for next years Winterfest.

[HomerJay]

1.) I think ragging on Winterfest by saying that it's not like it was 13 years ago is pretty unfair. Like it was posted before, I think that people fail to realize that they pretty much had to start over and reboot the whole Winterfest idea because they didn't have all the equipment. Plus, it's a new company doing it.

2.) Yes, it's going to be more money-making than giving the true holiday feeling. When a family owns the park it's going to have more heart to it than when a corporation does. Still will be fun, but don't expect a tear in your eye.

3.) Be thankful that you get to go to Winterfest. I live in Detroit. The closest park to me is Cedar Point. And they're doing NOTHING (not that I'd love to spend a winter evening on a freezing cold peninsula, but still...). I'd love to get the chance to go to PKI for a December weekend.

[jzarley]

I have to wonder about all the references to "a family" owning Kings Island prior to Viacom/Paramount...

Taft Broadcasting was a corporation...so is the American Financial Group owned by Carl Lindner. Throughout its history, KI has been owned by one corporation or another, regardless of whether it held a "family" name or not... (By the same reasoning, I guess you could say that PKI is today owned by the "Redstone Family" <g>).

[PKI Foodguy]

I have to agree with Titanic on some things. I unfortunately haven't gotten to experience much of the event because I've worked every minute of it thus far. Personally I think the park looks incredible. I never experienced the first winterfest, but I think the park looks beautiful now. I have to agree with Titanic that the first weekend was somewhat disappointing. The attendance projections from our marketing department were a little off as they have been all season, but our marketing staff is very good and I'm sure they will figure out how to fill the park up. I agree that the pricing for this event is certainly a little steep and not very affordable for the typical family of four. But even with that, I don't understand all of the bashing. I know I just said this, but I really think the park looks incredible. I'm very impressed with the amount of work that was put in to make this event what it is. It is just dissappointing that we haven't gotten very many people in to see it yet, but I'm sure we will.

The food for Winterfest is very good as well. For those of you who haven't been in the Festhaus yet, you should check it out. No more pizza and cheesesticks here. Winterfesthaus has Turkey, Roast Beef, Mashed Potatos/gravy, dressing, lasagna, mac & cheese, green beans, and delicious dinner rolls. Carts has stepped up tremendously from the traditional dip n dots, pretzels, and bottled drinks. Carts now features baked potatos, turkey legs, bread bowls with delectable soups, roasted nuts, graters ice cream, buskin baked goods, and lots of other goodies. And of course the best stand in the park, Bubba Gump's, is still doing it big with most of their desirable treats such as fish, shrimp, Montgomery inn ribs, and the newest addtion, crab cakes. Lt. Dan's bar has also raised the bar with a whole new assortment of drinks such as Irish coffee and hot chocolate, Cafe Ameretto, spiced wine, hot buttered rum, and all the orginaly thirst quinching drinks like their deliecious margaritas, and the full line of drafts and bottles including two new additions...Heiniken and Coor's Winterfest Ale. Check it out.

Ok, somehow that turned into an advertisement for KI food, but try it, its good stuff. Bottom line, I think Winterfest is here to stay. Viacom dropped a ton of money on this thing and we've put countless hours into setting it up. I think that we will work out all these quirks and that by the end of the year the return of winterfest will have been a success. I also think it will be bigger and better in the years to come. By the way, everyone keeps talking about the orginal winterfest. Was anyone around for the first year of the orginal winterfest??? How did it compare to this year's so far?

[WooferBearATL]

Ok, somehow that turned into an advertisement for KI food, but try it, its good stuff.

LOL! As a former food service person, advertise it all ya like. <G> Still the hardest working workers in the park!

[robintodd]

Well, I have not been to Winterfest yet this year, but I was at the original Winterfest. From what I've been reading I think that they will HAVE to drop prices to get people into the park. It is a matter of what else people could do in the area. The Festival of Lights at the Cincinnati Zoo cost $9. True there is no skating, but that is upcharged at KI. The Zoo has shows also and 2,000 animals to feed to boot. Which would you take your family of 5 to? KI, like many amusement parks makes it's money on Food and Beverage. If people don't come in the door, there will be no food & beverage sales. It's a delacate balance. I am very disheartened to hear the same feel isn't there anymore. The original Winterfest had lights EVERYWHERE. Horse drawn carriages were a real nice touch, they surely could have had that this year.

They will work out the kinks. I would suspect they will offer a deeper discounted admission for season pass holders the last 2 weeks of the year (during Mon - Thur). What they need is word of mouth from experience. They need a bigger buzz about what is going on. And I also remember no parking fee for winterfest, but I could be wrong.

Here's hoping they work the kinks out.

Todd

[Legend Rider]

Ok, somehow that turned into an advertisement for KI food, but try it, its good stuff.

LOL! As a former food service person, advertise it all ya like. <G> Still the hardest working workers in the park!

I tend to look at the Operations Department as the hardest working, do you listen to people screaming about their kid being too short? are you lifting ride parts? are you watching and waiting for trouble to happen so you may spring into action and save someone from dying? no...

Sure foods is of the suck... but you know, that doesnt mean its the hardest... its just tedious.