The Interpreter Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 From the Op-Ed page of The Cincinnati Enquirer: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...20317/1090/EDIT Revived Winterfest poorly planned We have to comment on the "business decision" by Cedar Fair to cancel Winterfest at Kings Island. On the emotional front, we are extremely disappointed with the cancellation announced last week, as we both enjoyed the event this past year -- our first Christmas married -- and had planned on making it a tradition with our children. It doesn't take a finance major or someone with an MBA to figure out that attendance will lack when you charge $24.99 up front. On the business front, the crowds were indeed sparse compared with the 1980s, when ticket prices were relatively lower and you couldn't even move around with all of the guests. We are not saying that one would question keeping it open, but after one year? There was no room for word of mouth, little lead time for marketing, and no future to adjust the model to make up for the supposed leases that Kings Island entered into on some of the decorations. What about the model many businesses use, which consists of getting you in at a low price, then getting you on just about everything else once you are in? Rather than free parking and charging $24.99, drop it to $19.99 and charge $5 for parking and increase all prices inside the park. You mean a parent is going to deny a crying child of a picture with Santa or a hot chocolate cause it costs $2 over last year? They'll sacrifice a half a pack of smokes instead. Not that it is right, but many people in our society spend what they do not have. How bad was the marketing that Kings Island could not persuade people to make the trek to safe and family-friendly Mason, versus spending about the same amount of money to drive down Vine Street in the dark to the Festival of Lights? How bad were the projections that operating a second year would lose so much money, it made more sense to eat the sunk costs and fold it? In summary, the closing tells us one thing. It was the business plan that drove away the people, not the event. Humbug. Andrew Kulesza works in finance at Kramig Insulation; Erin Kulesza works in marketing at Procter & Gamble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Amen, as I've said before - you have to try really hard to make an event like Winterfest fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby_Doo Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Well Said...You have to want something like WinterFest to fail for it to fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 We decided last year to wait one year and let them work out the kinks then we would start making a tradition of it ourselves. Not only did kings Iasland lose our bussinness but hotels and resturantes will lose bussiness from potential customers comming to WinterFest. We are very dissapointed too!! I wonder if they gave the gold pass members free admissions as a perk like all the other places include in thier holiday celebrations as a season pass holder. Would it help sell season passes and drive attendance with sales in the park. Bottom line: It's thier park, but we don't always haft to like or agree with thier decisions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam12 Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 I totally understand why they decided not to have WF. They have a lot of cleaning up to do! When a corporation craps all over an amusement park it takes a while to clean up. I could see them possibly bring WF back next year due to popular demand and the fact that they won't need as much time next off season to get ready for the following year. -adam12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 What corporation "craps" all over an amusement park? I sense a little hostility about the way Paramount ran the park. True, the parks weren`t quite as clean as they were under previous ownerships, nothing was grossly disgusting or screwed up by Paramount (excluding the poor choice of site for IJST). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortexlover2 Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 When a corporation "craps" all over an amusement park? I sense a little hostility about the way Paramount ran the park. True, the parks weren`t quite as clean as they were under previous ownerships, nothing was grossly disgusting or screwed up by Paramount (excluding the poor choice of site for IJST). I thought Adam12 was talking about CBS. but I could be wrong, but CBS did make some of the good things bad- like the new prices on everything *hopes Cedar Fair lowers prices* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Picard Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 I like how some of us said Winterfest would be a flop and not return and others said how well it did right down to the day it was canceled. It could be the info gave to them was incorrect and they believe everything they are told. I think it was in the Cincinnati Enquirer about how it was such a success if I remember correctly. This is like when we was told SOB was on a 3 year repair plan and 06 was the last year of it and look at it now. They should have been working on repairs instead of wasting time and money on Winterfest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standbyme Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 I like how some of us said Winterfest would be a flop and not return and others said how well it did right down to the day it was canceled. They should have been working on repairs instead of wasting time and money on Winterfest. I think it would have returned had Paramount/CBS not sold the parks...so that is not quite a great forcast that it got cancelled. As for wasting time and money on Winterfest...not everyone likes the same things...I personally think the same could be said about putting time and money into SOB! (I am not hoping that it never reopens though...even though I do not like it I wouldn't want to deprive anyone who does.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Picard Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 I like how some of us said Winterfest would be a flop and not return and others said how well it did right down to the day it was canceled. They should have been working on repairs instead of wasting time and money on Winterfest. I think it would have returned had Paramount/CBS not sold the parks...so that is not quite a great forcast that it got cancelled. As for wasting time and money on Winterfest...not everyone likes the same things...I personally think the same could be said about putting time and money into SOB! (I am not hoping that it never reopens though...even though I do not like it I wouldn't want to deprive anyone who does.) I don't like going to a park that don't have everything up and running when the park opens because they didn't have the time or money to get it ready in the off season. No not everyone likes the same things. It's good thing there is more parks around than PKI. All Winterfest will ever do is take from the rest of the season. I see you are still a believer, you hang in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standbyme Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 I will not argue the point that PKI sunk a lot of money into Winterfest...and it showed...but I highly doubt it affected any "time" issues for the rehab of SOB...the employees retracking it were not pulled off of it to work on Winterfest. What's funny about this is I am not a "gung-ho" Winterfest supporter...I liked it and will miss it...but i'm not going to die over it. I just took your post as kind of a "Ha ha I told you it was a loser from the start" kind-of-a-post...which bothered me. I also have never believed that Winterfest was a success...but I did think it had a real good chance of building year after year...and I also would be willing to bet Cedar Fair will attempt it again in a couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby_Doo Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 What makes me upset is they have FearFest for the Halloween Junkies what about us Christmas junkies? I think when they brought back WinterFest they killed it from the start because the prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Picard Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 I think if Cedar Fair was to ever attempt it they would have done it this year. After taking a loss to end it I don't see them getting back into it. I don't know if they are taking a loss it's just a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclaimer Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 I'll quote an email I got from Maureen a week or so ago: "It's hard to say if Cedar Fair will bring it back in the future.....we'll never say never but I would say that it is unlikely!' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortex Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Also Cedar Fair needs time to fix the park up the way Cedar Fair wants. If the parks where still for sale you would see Winter Fest coming back this year. Up till July Paramount was still selling tickets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 I will not argue the point that PKI sunk a lot of money into Winterfest...and it showed...but I highly doubt it affected any "time" issues for the rehab of SOB...the employees retracking it were not pulled off of it to work on Winterfest. What's funny about this is I am not a "gung-ho" Winterfest supporter...I liked it and will miss it...but i'm not going to die over it. I just took your post as kind of a "Ha ha I told you it was a loser from the start" kind-of-a-post...which bothered me. I also have never believed that Winterfest was a success...but I did think it had a real good chance of building year after year...and I also would be willing to bet Cedar Fair will attempt it again in a couple of years. That it took time away from rehab and maintenance is really a stretch. If you believe that I have some perty swamp land in Florida for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italianchef Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 My guess is that CF will bring it back in the future after they have assimulated the new parks - and I think that CF will have the wisdom to charge a low enough price to make WinterFest a success. Have a great day! Italian Chef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 Although I am old enough to know to never say never, I will say that I see that as decidedly very, very unlikely. I think you have seen the last of Winterfest for a very, very, very long time at Kings Island and Carowinds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbubba Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 From what I have heard, Cedar Faire does not have any Christmas celebrations in it's parks. That being said, it's sad to see it scrapped. I worked it last year and saw the poor attendance, but saw it's mistakes. CBS had went to fix some of them this year with more marketing and cheaper prices (less than half price at ten dollars a ticket)tr5, but Cedar Faire was not interested. I'm hoping in time it will be brought back but I don't believe it'll be in the next five years ~ Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 The $9.95 was only a very early presale price. CBS had no plans whatsoever to charge that little as the event got closer. It was a way to guage interest in Winterfest at all. And the amount of tickets sold (and which had to be refunded) was VERY, VERY small indeed. I am sure that was one of the factors that Cedar Fair looked at in making its decision about what to do with Winterfest. Had tens of thousands of tickets been presold, the decision might very well have been different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 The $9.95 was only a very early presale price. CBS had no plans whatsoever to charge that little as the event got closer. It was a way to guage interest in Winterfest at all. And the amount of tickets sold (and which had to be refunded) was VERY, VERY small indeed. I am sure that was one of the factors that Cedar Fair looked at in making its decision about what to do with Winterfest. Had tens of thousands of tickets been presold, the decision might very well have been different. Not a chance would the decision have been different. If they had sold 100K Presale Tickets there would have been no Winterfest this year. You know that very well Interpreter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzarley Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 ...If they had sold 100K Presale Tickets there would have been no Winterfest this year. You know that very well Interpreter. If that would have been the case, I certainly would have loved to see how they would have explained giving back $1,000,000 in cash refunds in the Q3 earnings release. (Now, that might have made the analyst call a little more interesting ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radd Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 From what I have heard, Cedar Faire does not have any Christmas celebrations in it's parks. That being said, it's sad to see it scrapped ~ Steven False. Knott's Merry Farm is a very popular event. Last time I checked, too, that parks is Cedar Fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOB_TOM Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 And yes, Winterfest took away a lot of time from winter maintenance. Everything got pushed back 6 weeks, and with how short off season is, that is a lot of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 ^What how can you say that, you know very wll that "Tech services isn't part of maintenace". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 And yes, Winterfest took away a lot of time from winter maintenance. Everything got pushed back 6 weeks, and with how short off season is, that is a lot of time. It just amazes me that Winterfest took place for years and there were never any delays in maintenance before. It's just really odd that Winterfest had such a huge affect on maintenance when it never had in the past. Hmmmmm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Picard Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 I would guess there is more rides and they need to do more maintenance than they did in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 Or more likely fewer people who are now greatly overworked and trying their best to keep up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Amen, as I've said before - you have to try really hard to make an event like Winterfest fail. I am with Scooby Doo you could not have said it any better than that. It is a shame to. I wonder if they will keep Fearfest or change it to Halloweekends. but with a different name title. I am all for keeping fearfest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 I would guess there is more rides and they need to do more maintenance than they did in the past. You would guess incorrectly. If anything (other than Son of Beast) I would veture to say that the maintenance is exactly the same if not somewhat less labor intensive with the newer vs older rides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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