Geauga Lake Takes New Direction

[RailRider]

I think the Cedar Fair strategy makes sense for GL, just a shame they have decided this as their strategy a few years after owning the park. I could see GL turn more Holiday World than its current self. Great water park and a few key rides on the dry side that you dont want to miss. That seems like the direction CF is taking. Hope it works, because it is a very pretty park.

[jzarley]

How is removing rides going to make the place more cozy, intimate and, presumably, more appealing? Stay tuned!

I want to see Geauga succeed. I really do. But I smell something afoot here that smells a bit different than wanting the dry park to succeed as a park...

But, you have to admit, that "cozy & intimate" line spins a lot better in a press release than "the park is too big and too expensive to maintain in its current form for the piddly few amount of you that decide to come here every year..."

[jzarley]

I don't like the changes they are making to the park. They are getting rid of everything on the ride side and not putting anything new in except water park attractions. I think the existing steel coasters will be sent to other CF parks in the next few years and the park will close or be sold for real estate. This is my opinion. I liked the park best when Six Flags owned it they had the animals, shows, and coasters.

While it was a great thing from a park-goer's standpoint, it just didn't work from a business standpoint. If it had been a money-making venture for Six Flags, they wouldn't have sold it for just $145M to Cedar Fair only a few years after sinking tens of millions of dollars of capital into it.

SF tried to turn Geauga Lake/Sea World into a major regional destination park in an area where there were already two very successful ones. The market just couldn't support another 3M+ guest theme park so close. Sea World had a unique factor that kept it going for so many years (although, Busch also sold out for just $115M, so you have to wonder what they thought about the long-term viability of the market), but even though SF kept the marine attractions, it still just wasn't the same as Sea World to people. (Especially not from a customer service and quality standpoint...BEC had them totally beat there.)

Over the past few years, GL's attendance has been less than a quarter of what either PKI or CP pulls in a season. There's just no way that it makes sense to maintain the infrastructure of GL to compete with parks that do 4x the business.

X-Flight/Firehawk will be a great addition to KI...they'll market it well and assuming the weather and lower gas prices hold out, I bet KI will hit the 3.5M guests number again this year. It will do much more for KI as a business benefit than it ever could have done sitting in Aurora. It was a very smart way for CF to leverage their resources.

[hauntguy]

You now, KI is not invincible... If CF is "cleaning up parks"; Is there ANY chance that we could lose Face/Off. It's right out front, buldging into the parking lot/gate area? I don't consider F/O an eyesore in anyway... but I never did with X-Flight and Steel Venom either! -Hauntguy

[pkimike]

Why do people think the park is automatically closing down because they removed two coasters? Why not jump on the gun and go all "SFMM IS GOING TO CLOSE IN TWO YEARS!!!THEY SHOULD SEND SCREAM TO GE AND TATSU TO GADV AND BULLDOZE THE REST FOR REEEEELESTATE!!!!!!!". Trust me, no other coasters will be leaving. The park will stay a park as long as CF invests money into it.

I understand what you are saying. I really enjoyed the park when I visited it for the first time last summer. I look forward to going back again this year. I remember telling my friend I was with that "I bet they close this park soon and move the coasters to other parks." Think about it - They own KI and CP in the same state. One in the North and one in the South. They both have 3+ million visitors every year. Do they really want to have 3 parks in the same state? I don't know. You look at the large amount of money they spent on the Paramount parks and you can see how selling the ride sides land and using GL rides as new rides at other parks would help them with the debt they have aquired.

CF does have stand alone water parks and GL could become one. Things are different then when CF bought GL. They now own KI and have a large debt. I'm not saying it will happen this way but I saw the ride removals coming when I was there.

[jzarley]

You now, KI is not invincible... If CF is "cleaning up parks"; Is there ANY chance that we could lose Face/Off. It's right out front, buldging into the parking lot/gate area? I don't consider F/O an eyesore in anyway... but I never did with X-Flight and Steel Venom either! -Hauntguy

Yeah, I don't think anyone else considered them an eyesore either... (Although, I hate parking lot installations where you can still see the old parking lot under the ride!)

CF isn't really removing X-Flight and Steel Venom due to aesthetics or making the park more "intimate and cozy." They're being removed because 750K guests a year isn't enough to support the infrastructure, operation costs, and depreciation on the balance sheet required for those installations.

As far as PKI removing coasters...sure, I guess it could happen. However, CF has always seemed to be pretty in tune with capacity needs. I do think it's a good sign that CF cancelled the plans to relocate FoF at KD and KI shortly after taking over the parks. So, I'd like to think that they won't be removing/swapping rides unless there's a good business reason to do so.

[Kenban]

Geauga Lake still has 8 coasters even after the removal of Steel Venom and X-Flight. Can anyone think of a park that only brings in 750,000 guests a year with 10 coasters? For the attendance the park had it was too large. Its not like Cedar Fair is giving up on the park either its painting two rides and re-theming its simulator. If you go back to 1999 the park only had 5 coasters then Six Flags installed 5 coasters in 2 years (4 in one season alone). I don't have the figures in front of me but around 10 to 15 years ago the park only had 3 or 4 coasters and had an attendance over 1 million.

[Gordon Bombay]

well... I would like to see them move a wooden coaster without going over the coast it would need to a build a new one... And dominator is a terrain ride. Plus there is no room for dominator at cp AND they have a stand up coaster... thats like adding a boomerang and an Invertigo at the same place. Thanks for the good laugh... I was in a bad mood

So what if CP has a stand up coaster, for some kid who works seasonaly at Geauga Lake you should know that Dominator is a floorless rollercoaster, theres no standing involved and calling it a terrain coaster? The terrain doesnt seem to change much here. Dominator could easily be relocated with little re-engineering of the supporst just like Firehawk is doing now.

[mutedarkness]

Cedar Fair is not six flags here. They are both very simmular rides. And for "re-engineering" 10 foot footers rnt very attractive.

[Gordon Bombay]

^They are in now way similar rides, two completely different experiences that can be marketed differently. "Re-engineering" footers is not attractive? Well for one, they're actually called footings, and how is re-engineering certain parts of the ride not attractive? You argument makes no sense. Rides have been re-located countless amounts of times and will continue to do so, especially Geauga Lake if it doesnt get better.

[hauntguy]

I'm just wondering, is it possible to add track to a coaster that's already seen years of operation? Would it be possible then for KI to add some track to FH? I know it won't happen but I think it'd be cool to include the corkscrew from the animation into the ride. Just a dream! -Hauntguy

[mutedarkness]

from what i heard the twists are better

[Gordon Bombay]

I'm just wondering, is it possible to add track to a coaster that's already seen years of operation? Would it be possible then for KI to add some track to FH? I know it won't happen but I think it'd be cool to include the corkscrew from the animation into the ride. Just a dream! -Hauntguy

Yes it is possible, Steel coasters and wooden coasters can be re-profiled after severl years. The Demon coasters at Great America were as was Drachen Fire before it was torn down.

[PhantomTheater]

Phantoms Revenge at Kennywood was changed from arrow looper to morgan hyper, thus its possible to redo the track after years of operation.

[Kennywooddude]

I don't think you could do it with a ride like X...er Firehawk unless you redo the lift hill to be taller/smaller.

[mutedarkness]

what?

[beastfan11]

I think what CF is doing with GL is a good decision. When people think CF the think big thrilling roller coasters. CF needs a family oriented park.

[glgina]

CF is trying to restore GL to what it used to be, when it was owned by Fun Time. Its a step in the right direction for the park, and the park will do well!

[The Interpreter]

I certainly hope you are right. But, I have seen similar statements made about seemingly healthy parks in the past, from LeSourdsville (aka Americana) to Miracle Strip to Pavilion at Myrtle Beach to Whalom. And then the park suddenly was not fine...the reasons differed, from high real estate values to lack of local support to changing times.

I sure hope Geauga Lake does do fine, but it is hardly a foregone conclusion.

[Stardust]

Makes me want to write a song...oh, wait, I already did that.

I still think it's a good decision; heck, it's getting me to go there this summer at one point in time or another. It's clear that CF likes having KI, as a bigger park, and they're making the conscious, already told a zillion times decision to not compete against themselves. And if they do decide to close it down, I'll throw a fit until they keep it open or decide to move Dipper somewhere. (Wouldn't it be freaky if they decided to move Dipper to KI? After reprofiling the land and everything to make it work...)

[glgina]

CF doesn't give up on parks. MIA is perfect example of that. everyone thought MIA was a huge risk, but now they are turning a profit. trust me when i say this. GL will be around for a long time and will do very well.

[Quickwind]

Geauga Lake area has a lot of old people, old people probably don't ride the big rides, thus taking them out means it looks better in the old peoples eyes who in turn bring their grandchildren. Six flags messed up by taking out sea world which was a major part of the attendence for the old folks.

Also since SV is a lim it probably makes a nice big electric bill, and x-flight probably had high maintence cost with those trains. All of Cedar Fairs decisions make sense to lower costs and attract the old folks again, and when there's old folks there are grandchildren!

[Kennywooddude]

Aurora and surrounding areas arn't full of old folks. And Sea World's major part of the attendence wasn't from old folks. Thats like saying 98% of Disney's attendence is kids under 10. Sea World was the northern draw. People from Pa, OH, ILL, NY and other states up here went there. BTW, Six Flags never took out Sea World, they expanded it. And Cedar Fair isn't trying to attract the older ones...their trying to attract family's.

[cstrwomann]

I hope it works for them. CP has room for Dominator in the parking lot. Face it CP is out of room for expansion unless they take something out of the park they are eventually going to have to move parking somewhere else and use the parking lot for rides/expansion. Dominator is a floorless coaster not a stand up coaster or terrain coaster and they aren't the same type of feel.

[The Interpreter]

Especially really good floorless coasters (Medusa, for example).

CP is nowhere near out of room. See: Kennywood, Indiana Beach, etc. There are a number of things Cedar Fair can do to install more rides at Cedar Point without removing any, should they choose to do so.

[Ensign Smith]

First off, Cedar Point has plenty of room left with which to build new attrractions for years to come.

Secondly, I'm at least mildly reassured by Falfas's statements about the Geauga Lake's future. Just knowing they have future attractions planned is encouraging. Also, that bit about the aesthetics of the park entrance does not suggest to me that they are planning on selling it for condos, as one poster mentioned about four pages back. No, it tells me that they actually intend to do something with it, and that is good news indeed.

I hate to say it, but I wouldn't be surprised if one more GL coaster ends up moving. We may see more shrinkage before new growth begins again. The whole park is being reprofiled away from the SF monster thrill ride incarnation it failed at, and toward a family park with accent on the park experience and atmosphere. Think Waldameer south. But if another GL coaster does end up being moved, I wouldn't expect that to happen before at least after next season. Doing this any faster than they're already doing would be risking park suicide.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it: what do X-Flight, Steel Venom, the monorail, Mr. Hyde's Nasty Fall and the paddlewheel boats have in common? They're all rides that were costly either to operate or maintain.

Perhaps in a year or two we'll see the Happy Harbor rides move over into the newly vacated area, perhaps eventually with a spinning mouse as an anchor attraction. That would probably look less intimidating to families driving down Route 43.

The more I think about it, the fact they haven't bulldozed the old waterpark encourages me. CF is not in the habit of leaving eyesores like that lying about. They're very conscious of their park image, much more so than Six Flags was in its later management. So to me, this says they're merely waiting until their park plan dictates putting in more attractions in that area. The tear-down will be one and the same as the future buildup. That could save a nice little wad on demolition costs.

I seldom rode X-Flight, as I found it physically uncomfortable and more showy than substantial, so I won't miss it all that much. (Although I do have to say I always liked hearing the chain lift heading into the park.) Steel Venom, I will miss, but in recent years its operation has been spotty at best, so it won't be that much of a loss personally. Dominator is still a terrific ride, and Raging Wolf Bobs too since the rehab was finished. If Villain is a little bit smoother from its off-season work, that could very easily become a coaster I ride often. And don't forget Big Dipper -- Ohio's oldest wooden coaster, and an airtime monster! So Geauga Lake still has plenty to do, and it's with an encouraged heart and bated breath for what will come that I'll go back this summer.

[Kennywooddude]

I hope it works for them. CP has room for Dominator in the parking lot. Face it CP is out of room for expansion unless they take something out of the park they are eventually going to have to move parking somewhere else and use the parking lot for rides/expansion. Dominator is a floorless coaster not a stand up coaster or terrain coaster and they aren't the same type of feel.

CF would NEVER take a coaster from a current park and put it in CP. That is the lowest thing they can do.

[DeLorean Rider]

The reason that x-flight and steel venom could be removed was cause they were on the edge of the park. Dominator would leave a giant hole in the middle of the park. Also CP finds a way to build rides, whether its moving flat rides or building on top of things. With their space constraints, CP will probably only build custom made coasters, not pre-fab coasters from other parks.

[The Interpreter]

With the financial situation that Geauga Lake finds itself in, I seriously doubt that Dominator's location would save it, if the company were considering moving it. There would be no giant hole...just more shoreline on the lake...

[Kennywooddude]

The reason that x-flight and steel venom could be removed was cause they were on the edge of the park. Dominator would leave a giant hole in the middle of the park. Also CP finds a way to build rides, whether its moving flat rides or building on top of things. With their space constraints, CP will probably only build custom made coasters, not pre-fab coasters from other parks.

The park did fine with just Thunderhawk in that area for two years. Also, the last thing I want CP to become is an American version of Blackpool.