Paying for waiting in a shorter line

[Kenban]

I have noticed what seems to be a trend towards theme parks having more then one line for guests. One the stand by line which is what most guests wait in and is normally the longest wait. The other a shorter line which sometimes requires purchasing a separate ticket. At the former Paramount parks it was for gold pass members and was called a speed lane, Disney's is free to all park guests and is the Fast Pass system, and for Universal its Express Pass and there are a number of ways to purchase access to the line.

The addition of this second line only changes how people wait for the attraction not how many guests can experience it. The rides capacity is a zero sum game where the total number of riders does not change just how the seats are allocated. For people to have a shorter wait in this second line the people in the stand by line MUST have a longer wait as less capacity is allocated to them.

What I am wondering is first what people think of these services everything from the free (Disney) to the pay (Universal). Has a parks use of these pay (or even free) lines changed how you decide to visit a park? Have these lines changed what you do once your at the park?

I don't want to just leave everyone with a bunch of questions so I figured I would give my thoughts. The parks that always come to my mind when I think about this and what was on my mind when I wrote this post are the two parks that make up Universal Orlando. The system they use is called Express Pass and a ticket to gain access to the line once for every ride in the park is between $15 and $50 per a day depending on the time of year and if you want a pass for one or both parks. If you stay on site there is unlimited front of the line access which just unlimited access to the express pass lines. There is a premium annual pass which is $280 (the "standard" pass is $180 but renews at $99 a year there is no renewal discount on the premium pass) which allows express pass access after 4PM. Now there is a new option for busy times of the year where guests can purchase a ticket for a single express pass use for $5 and one is also available for 3 uses which costs $10. The advertising claims that Universal attempts to keep the express pass lines at 15 minutes or less. But to me it seems like the park just keeps selling more and more ways to get access to the express pass lines.

This is where the whole zero sum game comes in. If there are more express pass guests then to make sure the express pass guests spend the same amount of time in line more of a rides capacity must be allocated to them. This makes the lines that much longer for the average guest. Also in Universal Studios Florida one of the parks major attractions just closed. The closing of any attraction lowers the overall parks capacity which means if attendance does not fall then all of the lines will that much longer at the park. I doubt the park is going to offer fewer express passes because of this closure.

I keep reading where attendance at the Universal parks is down or just flat. Its been rare for there to be any attendance gains for some time now. According to the parks last fiscal statement attendance is down but revenue and profits are up. I can't help but wonder if the reason for both is the current Express Pass system. While I am sure the passes are making the parks a lot of money I am really starting to think its driving away guests who don't feel its worth spending the extra money and feel the stand by lines do not get enough attention anymore. I am aware of just how few and far between the new attractions have been at Universal and yes its possible thats why there is the drop in attendance but with the huge gains at Disney and just how well other Orlando attractions are doing even without new rides I feel the problem is not the lack of new attractions.

Now its your turn what do you think?

[The Interpreter]

To add to this discussion:

http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/visit/vip.cfm

[Captain Picard]

The times I was at Universal there wasn't that many with the Express Pass to make a difference. I get a Express Pass for HHN every year and I don't think I would go without it.

You can use a HHN Express Pass more the once you just need to print more copies to take with you.

[BoddaH1994]

I see it this way: if it's your first time visiting a park and you're willing to drop another $20 or so to ensure that you get to ride 3 or 4 of the best rides, then so be it. I don't think that the program will be so popular that regular guests will be angered by it, but it would benefit some people.

[tubaman]

From what I saw at SFoG, their Flash Past must make some good money. The line was rather long to pick them up/purchase one when I saw it.

[Delirium33]

I go to Universal Orlando once every 1-2 years. I don't think I would go if I didn't have an express pass. We always stay at one of the resort hotels, where your room key is the express pass. Its virtually limitless- you can use it for your entire stay in the hotel and ride all the rides at both parks as many times as you want. Only a small percentage of the guests seem to have a pass when we go. On an average summer day when the lines can be 1-2 hours, with the pass I wait in anywhere from 2-30 minutes. The resort hotels are expensive, but well worth it- you can get so much more done in one day with the express pass.

So bottom line, its a huge reason why my family and I go to Universal Orlando (and love the whole resort). I think KI could benefit from a more elaborate express system, although I'm not sure how exactly it should be set up.

[Jasper]

I used Disney's speedpass thing and it saved us abou t 3 hours wait time all together and i plan on using my Gold Pass to get into the speed lane this year.

[lambertman]

To add to this discussion:

http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/visit/vip.cfm

CP should charge double that for an odd-number of people. They screw everything up.

[fanofbigmedia]

Disney's FastPass system is a real time saver. However, there is some strategy involved as you can only carry one FastPass until it's expiration (or return time). For example, if you arrive at the attraction at noon, and the FastPass return time is 7 PM, you will not be able to get another FastPass until 7 PM (at which point, all FastPasses will have been allocated anyway). On busy days, many attractions will exhaust their FastPass allocation for the day by 11 AM.

Plus, there is a third line that is being implemented at many of Disney's newer attractions. The Single Rider line. The Single Rider lines for Disney's Test Track and MissionSpace rarely exceeded 10 minutes while I was there while the standby waits were > 1 Hour and the FastPasses were gone.

Therefore, as your wait time improves, you make more and more trade-offs (time, money, or companionship).

There is also an inverse relationship between time and money. You spend one to save the other. Almost always.

[flightoffear1996]

I think this could work out for both of the parties (the park and the guest). First off it will be bring a lot of money in for nothing for the park. However if the park lets too many guest use this fast pass thing it may make it pointless. They need to keep the number like like 100 people a day or something.

[Captain Picard]

They only sell so many Express Passes at Universal. If you don't get one when they have them you can't get one.

When there is high demand for them they raise the prices.

The Disney's FastPass is limited too.

[Browntggrr]

There are so many scenarios for this type of experiance it is difficult to break them all down.

FastPass at Disney should be the exclusive right for guests staying on the park property. They paid the money, they deserve the luxery. What I don't know, does everyone that enters the park have the right to the FastPass system? Either way though, Disney has the process down pat. You can't go around collecting FastPasses all day. You are limited to one at a time.

CP has the VIP club which is fine. It is expensive, so I doubt your average guest will take in the luxery. I believe it is more for guests that are movie stars, sports figures etc. It would be difficult for someone like LeBron James and his guests to enjoy CP as normal guests. CP also has the benefit that if you stay on the park property, you get in early. That is a great benefit, especially since most don't even use it because they are families staying on the point. (Yeah it's tough to wake the kids at 7:30am to get ready to go early into the park). CP's whole FastPass basically was to be in the right place at the right time to get your hand stamped, and you could only get it twice a day. It really never took off.

What I did not like was at SFWoA. You could pay an extra (I believe) $10 to walk past everyone. It was bogus. They would sell so many that it was not even worth it. I still waited for X-Flight for over an hour.

Now I know this will cause some hard feelings for some, but the Gold Pass that Paramount had to get to the front of the line, as well as the re-ride event was bogus too IMO. Why should season pass holders get the luxery, just because they paid more? Well for the family that can only get to PKI one day per year, it stunk for them, because they had to wait longer.

If every park would have the same system as Disney, it would be great. But the cost for that would be large. If you want shorter lines, have a single rider line for the popular rides. Everyone wins there.

[Cory Butcher]

At Disney anyone with a ticket can qualify for the Fast Pass system. Also, I rarely stay on Property when I go down to Disney, so I am quite happy that the Fast Pass is for everybody.

You make two very contradictory statements though:

FastPass at Disney should be the exclusive right for guests staying on the park property. They paid the money, they deserve the luxery

-and-

Why should season pass holders get the luxery, just because they paid more?

and to add to it you even say this:

Well for the family that can only get to PKI one day per year, it stunk for them, because they had to wait longer

So, regardless of owning a time share or not, if I go to Disney and don't stay on property I shouldn't be able to use the Fast Pass? You say that at KI there are families on their first visit, and that giving the perk to the gold pass holders isnt fair, but yet it would be fair at Disney, where arguably more people enjoy their first visit. Well You have more of a worry about it being peoples first visit to Disney than you do it being someones first visit to KI. So its OK for a family to have long lines at Disney the most magical place on earth, but not at KI? I don't think I have read a more contradictory statement.

[Browntggrr]

You are looking at my comments for only face value.

A season pass holder a KI is going to go to the park numerous times during the year, and also have the luxery of going to the park for half days, questionable weather days etc. A family staying at one of the Disney resorts is probably only going to be at DW for a week. And since you can only be in one park at a time and chances are you are only going to go to one of the Disney parks for one full day during your stay- it is rather different than have a KI season pass. The Disney resort guest is limited for that one week.

Putting it much more simpler words: Comparing a Disney resort guest and a KI season pass holder is like matching apples and oranges.

[jzarley]

I go to Universal Orlando once every 1-2 years. I don't think I would go if I didn't have an express pass. We always stay at one of the resort hotels, where your room key is the express pass. Its virtually limitless- you can use it for your entire stay in the hotel and ride all the rides at both parks as many times as you want. Only a small percentage of the guests seem to have a pass when we go. On an average summer day when the lines can be 1-2 hours, with the pass I wait in anywhere from 2-30 minutes. The resort hotels are expensive, but well worth it- you can get so much more done in one day with the express pass.

So bottom line, its a huge reason why my family and I go to Universal Orlando (and love the whole resort). I think KI could benefit from a more elaborate express system, although I'm not sure how exactly it should be set up.

I am so with you on this... I stayed at a Universal Resort (Royal Pacific) last year for the first time, and that's the only way I'll do it from now on. On a day when the queue for Spiderman was nearly an hour, we could be on the ride within five minutes.

I actually enjoyed my stay at Universal a lot more than I typically have at Disney (I've stayed at the Wilderness Lodge a few times, Coronado once, and the Contemporary). The biggest reason was due to the Express Pass and the easy walking nature of the resort...the other is that Loews is a better overall hotelier than Disney (IMHO, anyway...)

[Kenban]

Imagine this if Kings Island added Speed Lanes to almost every ride at the park. To access the speed lane would cost $15 - $40 depending on how busy the park is expected to be. Annual pass holders could only use the lines if they upgrade their pass to a premium pass which allows access to the extra line in the evenings for an extra $50. If you only wanted to ride a small number of attractions you could purchase a $5 pass to one ride or a $10 pass to 3 rides. You could also stay at the Great Wolf Lodge and get access to the speed lanes as often as you want all day long.

50% of the rides capacity would be shifted to the speed lane. For a ride like Firehawk it would be one station for stand by and one station for speed lane guests. For rides like The Beast the back half of the station would be speed lane while the front half is stand by. It would be like this for every single ride at the park.

This is how Universals Express pass is setup. 50% of the rides capacity goes to the express pass guests. Its not some system where there are only a few people doing it there are 3 large hotels on-site plus the huge number of express passes which are sold every day. Just the 3 hotels alone can have several thousand people.

The VIP tours at Cedar Point are going to just be a small number of guests and overall I don't expect it will make a huge difference. What if it is just the beginning though? What if they make an option thats available to several thousand people a day which costs $30 or $40? I normally only make one trip to the point a year and I could see myself paying $40 extra so I did not wait in a single line all day. The problem is like I outlined above this is all a zero sum game for people to get this shorter wait there must be another group who has to wait that much longer.

The people who either cannot or will not pay the extra fees are waiting in longer lines. I doubt it will double the waits for rides because this is taking people out of the regular line as well but the average guest will wait longer. Six Flags has added the Flash Pass, Dollywood the Q-Bot, and I believe this is just the start of a new trend at amusement parks.

fanofbigmedia just want to point out that at Disney you can get a new fast pass in 2 hours no matter what the return time on your last fast pass is. So if you do get one of those 7PM ones in the morning you are not stuck all day without the ability to get another fast pass. Assuming there are still any left 2 hours later at other attractions.

[hauntguy]

I believe that the way KI does it is fine.... and maybe improved on. How? Raise gold pass prices and add more speed lanes. If there was a speed lane on ALL the rides and attractions, I would mind paying $200-$250 just for a GOLD pass.

I also think KI should work out a deal with GWL that would allow GWL guest to enter the park early, have early ride times, and have access to the Speed Lanes... that would be a cool perk!

So please quit complaining, KI is doing fine with what they are doing. If you don't like the idea of a gold pass holder using a speed lane... then I'll just walk by you and wave as you wait in line! Hahaha.... -Hauntguy

[Delirium33]

I actually enjoyed my stay at Universal a lot more than I typically have at Disney (I've stayed at the Wilderness Lodge a few times, Coronado once, and the Contemporary). The biggest reason was due to the Express Pass and the easy walking nature of the resort...the other is that Loews is a better overall hotelier than Disney (IMHO, anyway...)

I agree. I've stayed at on-site resorts in both places, and enjoyed Universal's hotels (all three) and their layouts much better than Disney's. The room key pass is very convenient, and as you said the nature of the whole area is much better- whether you walk or take the water taxis. The city walk and both parks are all centrally located. All three hotels are amazing, very unique, and worth the extra money.

[The Interpreter]

A lot of people here seem to be forgetting that The Great Wolf Lodge is the official resort of Kings Island only because of the relationship CBS entered into with GWL before selling the parks to CF. CF has its own waterpark resorts (think Castaway Bay). I doubt GWL guests get any new perks, and I suspect when the current contract with GWL is over, it will NOT be renewed.