Nickelodeon Theming at CF Parks?

[FOFirehawkFAN]

Does anyone happen to know what the licensing rules were for CF when they bought the Paramount Parks? I know there's been talk of removing the movie ties to the rides but I would assume they wouldn't want to remove Nickelodeon from the park esp since the one at KI is the best kids area of any park. But on top of this do you think we will ever seen camp snoopy turn in to Nickelodeon Universe or Nickelodeon Central?

[CoastersRZ]

Not much was publicly revealed about the exact terms of the licensing agreements. What was stated is that Cedar Fair had acquired a 10 year license to use the Paramount name (which they are obviously phasing out) and a four year license for the Nickelodeon license. Individual ride attraction licenses (like Top Gun) are each separate and specific licenses.

I`m sure Cedar Fair has an option to expand the Nick brand to the legacy parks, for a price. I think that if Cedar Fair were wise, they would, at a minimum, renew the Nick license when it comes up for renewal. Additionally, I think it would be wise for them to eventually rebrand all the Camp Snoopy areas into Nickelodeon areas. Because to be honest, Nickelodeon is a lot bigger than Peanuts. If for no other reason than the fact that Peanuts is one cartoon, while the Nick license is essentially a library of popular cartoons.

Of course, the really ironic twist in this, is that two of the stars of the new Endless Summers on Ice that debuts this weekend at Kings Island are Scooby Doo and Yogi Bear. Go figure that one out!

[italianchef]

My guess is that CF is profit-driven and will drop Nickelodeon for Peanuts. We'll see.

[CoastersRZ]

But see. I think that the Nick license has a larger target market, and therefore could attract more families into the parks. That, in my opinion, is well worth paying a higher premium for licensing the Nick brands. Yes, it may set them back more than if they had gone with the Peanuts, but they have the potential to bring in more revenue with Nick.

But as you say, we shall see in due time.

[PKIVortex]

I think if they don't renew the Nickelodeon License in 4 years they are silly.

[FOFirehawkFAN]

I think that if Cedar Fair were wise, they would, at a minimum, renew the Nick license when it comes up for renewal. Additionally, I think it would be wise for them to eventually rebrand all the Camp Snoopy areas into Nickelodeon areas. Because to be honest, Nickelodeon is a lot bigger than Peanuts. If for no other reason than the fact that Peanuts is one cartoon, while the Nick license is essentially a library of popular cartoons.

I totally agree I think the Nick name would help the entire chain A LOT, Snoopy is old news. But Im still curious to see what will happen to TRTR it's really the only one where the movie tie can't be removed easily. And don't say they are going to tear it down!!!

[Monroe]

I think that if Cedar Fair were wise, they would, at a minimum, renew the Nick license when it comes up for renewal. Additionally, I think it would be wise for them to eventually rebrand all the Camp Snoopy areas into Nickelodeon areas. Because to be honest, Nickelodeon is a lot bigger than Peanuts. If for no other reason than the fact that Peanuts is one cartoon, while the Nick license is essentially a library of popular cartoons.

I totally agree I think the Nick name would help the entire chain A LOT, Snoopy is old news. But Im still curious to see what will happen to TRTR it's really the only one where the movie tie can't be removed easily. And don't say they are going to tear it down!!!

O.K. then Take it down.

[jzarley]

Let's not assume that the license to Peanuts is so much cheaper than the Nick license... Those costs have never been made public.

It's not like CF owns Peanuts, and trust me, United Features Syndicate is not giving the license to Peanuts away.

Plus, if CF doesn't want to renew the Nick licenses, based on some of Viacom's recent deals there's certainly enough interest from other companies.

[The Interpreter]

Put another way, the Snoopy license probably cost more than a few peanuts...and what Viacom will demand for a Nick renewal may also be a bit more than most think...

[FOFirehawkFAN]

Put another way, the Snoopy license probably cost more than a few peanuts...and what Viacom will demand for a Nick renewal may also be a bit more than most think...

But I think it would be worth it. You guys are forgetting, how many Amusment Today Awards has KI won for their Nick kids area, now many has any Camp Snoopy area won? Also kids LOVE Nickelodeon, and the fact that it can range from toddlers (Dora and Backyardigans etc) to young teens (Spongebob Avatar etc) its a perfect fit for a kids area where the rides range from toddler to young teen.

On a side note what about the Hannah Barbara license? Scooby Doo's Haunted Castle is this going to change?

[The Interpreter]

Scooby's Haunted Castle license comes from Sally, and is a part of the ride.

And I wouldn't judge a park's rides or areas by what Amusement Today's poll takers think. Not even a little bit.

[FOFirehawkFAN]

Scooby's Haunted Castle license comes from Sally, and is a part of the ride.

And I wouldn't judge a park's rides or areas by what Amusement Today's poll takers think. Not even a little bit.

So for the 5 years or however long Millenium Force was the #1 steel coaster that didn't mean anything to CP? Based on the commercials, numerous banners all over the park, mentioning it numerous times on their website, and still having the awards on display in the town hall museum you must be right CF doesn't care what Amusment Today says about their parks.

[The Interpreter]

I said NOTHING of the kind. I said I would not accept the views of Amusement Today's poll takers as indicia of park quality. The Amusement Today awards are on the same high level as a talisman of quality as the Motor Trend Car of the Year Award. Neither means much of anything, other than a way for the sponsoring publication to CHARGE car companies (or amusement parks) to market the fact they "won" the award.

That's the way the marketing world works.

[FOFirehawkFAN]

I said NOTHING of the kind. I said I would not accept the views of Amusement Today's poll takers as indicia of park quality. The Amusement Today awards are on the same high level as a talisman of quality as the Motor Trend Car of the Year Award. Neither means much of anything, other than a way for the sponsoring publication to CHARGE car companies (or amusement parks) to market the fact they "won" the award.

That's the way the marketing world works.

I know how the marketing world works, thats what my career is in as a matter of fact. But I am saying if KI loses this award they will not be able to market the park in that way anymore. So to keep Nick Universe the top kids area they might want to re-new the Nick license and since it makes no sense to have a Nick license and Snoopy license camp snoopy will turn into Nick.

[westcoaster]

Yep its coming to Knotts too: it will be NICKELODEON LODGE:

for the camp snoopy out there

Nickelodeon will invade the whole Cedar Fair chain IF they were real smart all of Geuga lake would become Nickelodeon Lake:

and every ride adults down to the baby would be nick:

WHats your take could nick say no more to Cedar Fair?

due to the new mariott deal with hotels and the first and largest NICK Park at MOA in minneapolis;

[Gordon Bombay]

My guess is that CF is profit-driven and will drop Nickelodeon for Peanuts. We'll see.

Because the massive conglomerate that is nickelodeon is not in any way going to attract people in any way. Wheres the logic? Nickelodeon obvioulsy reaches a larger market and is more commonly found in many areas of profit and merchandising in all kinds of markets, how would Cedar Fair not profit from this?

"Hey kids, we removed all the Nickelodeon stuff youve seen on tv, now we got snoopy! Oh, you kids these days dont know who that is? Well yeah, all that Nick stuff is gone, come to our parks!"

[FOFirehawkFAN]

Yep its coming to Knotts too: it will be NICKELODEON LODGE:

for the camp snoopy out there

Nickelodeon will invade the whole Cedar Fair chain IF they were real smart all of Geuga lake would become Nickelodeon Lake:

and every ride adults down to the baby would be nick:

WHats your take could nick say no more to Cedar Fair?

due to the new mariott deal with hotels and the first and largest NICK Park at MOA in minneapolis;

I highly doubt Nick will say no, why would they it's tons of money in their pocket and they essentialy have to do nothing for it.

[PKIVortex]

I guess we really don't know what will happen until 4 years go by. But I would think more then likely, they will renew the license for Nickelodeon. But who knows what could happen in 4 years, they could be something new come out that changes what kids like once again.

[FOFirehawkFAN]

I guess we really don't know what will happen until 4 years go by. But I would think more then likely, they will renew the license for Nickelodeon. But who knows what could happen in 4 years, they could be something new come out that changes what kids like once again.

I really hope they do.

[italianchef]

Hey folks,

Kings Island won the Golden Ticket award with Hanna-Barbera Land before Nickelodeon Universe existed. Do you really think that they will lose the award if Snoopy replaces SpongeBob Squarepants?

Also, does anyone honestly believe that children will NOT want to go to KI or any other park just because Nickelodeon is replaced by Peanuts? I don't expect my son to say, "No Daddy, don't take me to Kings Island because there's no more Nickelodeon. Let's go to the art museum instead."

Since CF alreay has the Peanuts license, it is a sunk cost. To renew the Nickelodeon license would introduce a new layer of fees and reduce profits.

Hence, I predict NU will not be at the park after the license expires.

Best wishes,

Italian Chef

[CoastersRZ]

But do we necessarily know that Cedar Fair doesn`t have to continue to pay fees on the Peanuts licensing?

Yes, I am with you to an extent on the whole branding issue. Whether it was called Topcat`s Taxi Jam or Scooby Zoom or Little Bill`s Giggle Coaster, the ride remains essentially the same. Kids will want to ride it because of the ride, not because of who it was named after. However, rides like Swipper`s Sweepers can have added appeal with the cartoon characters populating the ride. It kind of makes the children`s area of the park seem like it came out of the television. Don`t forget that one of the main reason`s why Taft originally bought Coney was so that they could showcase their Hanna Barbera characters.

Which brings me back to Chef`s point that branding of children`s rides is not necessary. At Coney, the Land of Oz was not themed to any cartoon for years, yet it remained popular with kids. And at Coney today, they have a collection of kiddie rides that are unthemed and not branded. Kids will line up for those rides all day because they have fun on them. And in the case of the Frog Hopper, they don`t necessarily line up for that ride because their is a large fiberglass frog on top of the ride.

[The Interpreter]

And yet a company as cash strapped as Six Flags finds it prudent to continue paying for the Warner Brothers characters like Bugs Bunny, Porky Pig, etc., for the Wiggles and for Thomas The Train. The Wiggles, in particular, are a huge draw. When they appeared in person recently at Six Flags Great Adventure, over 17,000 strollers, their occupants and caretakers were attracted to the park. The same rides were in that park that were the day before and the day after.

Just a point. . .

[Monroe]

My daughter when she was younger asked me what my favorite ride was in the children's area, and I said "the Scooby Doo." She said "you mean The Beastie" I said "no the Scooby Doo." She then said "they are the same ride" and I said "no the Scooby Doo had a better name and I liked it better as the Scooby Doo". We as humans use association as a stimulant, for example, my daughter now in her teens does not like to ride Avatar because of the big figure on top of the car. Yes people would go if they just had rides without names, but they would enjoy it more (and spend more money) if they had that stimulant. Firehawk would not have the same wait if it were called the Panda Express, and Nickelodeon would not have as many teens if it were just simply called kiddy land. I personally think they would do better with Nickelodeon, but I do not think it would end up being a wash out with Snoopy. Either way they would do better than to have just a generic name.

[jzarley]

But do we necessarily know that Cedar Fair doesn`t have to continue to pay fees on the Peanuts licensing?

Of course CF has to continue to pay license fees for rights to use the Peanuts characters. They may be in the middle of an existing multi-year licensing agreement, but they have paid for the right to use Peanuts in specific parks, and they will pay again when that agreement expires.

For some reason there seems to be the idea from some on this board that CF "owns" Peanuts or that United Features Syndicate has decided to just "give away" one of their most valuable franchises. I can pretty much assure you that's not the case... Keep in mind the reason why Peanuts weren't introduced into GL during CF's first year of ownership was because they needed time to work out the deal to extend the licensing agreement to include GL. If CF would decide to bring Snoopy to the former Paramount Parks the existing license would need to be negotiated and extended, and that's not going to be free or cheap. Would it be cheaper than renewing the Nick license? Possibly (and would make sense considering Nick's current popularity as compared to Peanuts...Marriott wasn't exactly clamoring to build Snoopy indoor waterparks...), but we can't really say that for sure, because details of neither licensing agreement have been made public.

And, unless someone can provide some really specific data about the cost of licenses, the revenue earned from merchandise, and the general value added "cachet" of the brands, we can't even begin to imagine which license is more "profitable."

Very little information is usually made public about the licensing agreements for intellectual property. For example, NBC/Universal has said it plans to spend $260-285M on the new Harry Potter land at IOA. It's assumed that a BIG chunk of that money is actually the 10-year licensing rights, but the specific break out of the costs have never been made public.

[WooferBearATL]

Ya know, I really find it difficult to believe a child is going to say "I don't want to go to Kings Island since Nickelodeon is gone."

[jzarley]

^ but, that same kid would say that if Snoopy or HB were gone from a park?

I think I'm loosing track of the points being made...

[WooferBearATL]

Exactly. I think that the essentials are that the important thing is that there are rides, bright and shiny colors/lights and costume characters for a kids area. Essentially, for the smaller ones it probably does not matter what type. I remember a promotion that Merchandise did on International Street when I worked at the park. The Merchandise reps would put on these character outfits that were made like Hummel Figurines. The kids absolutely loved them! (Now ya can't tell me that a kid that's 5 or 6 knows anything about Hummel Figures!)

[art_star]

When I was younger, my dad took me to Kentucky Kingdom because they featured many Batman themes and I was a big batman fan (and still am). I can also say that as a kid I was excited about the Batman theming, and that I was disappointed by Holiday World due to their generic theming and told my dad I didn't like Holiday World. I don't think like this anymore, but I know that my little brother that is 7 is dying to go to King's Island to ride the Avatar ride. I also know that parents will base their park decisions on what their kid wants.

Cedar Point would definitely benefit from continuing to use Nick at the former Paramount Parks and extending it to their current parks.