McSalsa

^ That already exists, though not at a Cedar Fair park...it is a wooden coaster though. https://rcdb.com/1862.htm

I think the idea of a coaster at Kings Island taller than Diamondback BESIDES the seemingly inevitable future Giga is possible, but unlikely as most of the coaster styles that have broken the 200'+ barrier KI doesn't already have don't seem like rides Cedar Fair would build for Kings Island: -Strata Coaster: Only built by Intamin, whom CF hasn't done anything with since 2010, and these are known for reliability issues. -Impulse Coaster: Intamin again...also I can't recall if one of these has been built recently or not, and the low capacity could be a issue. -Dive Coaster: Not likely due to Cedar Point's Valravn still being very new. Maybe in the later 2020's when Valravn is no longer as big a draw for Cedar Point? -Wooden Coaster: Traditional is out of the question for sure, given how bad SOB came out, and a Intamin woodie would likely break the bank. A RMC topper track coaster is possible, but we did just get Mystic Timbers so KI probably won't be looking at more "wood" anytime soon... -4th Dimension Coaster: These can break the 200' mark and one is actually BIGGER than Diamondback, but only 3 have been built and I assume reliability is a concern due to all the moving parts on the trains. Also seems like a very expensive coaster model. Though if KI actually built one, they look incredibly cool and reviews of X2 @ SFMM have been very positive. -Infinity Coaster: Shockingly, there is one in Europe over 240 feet tall, with a inversion. However I'd bet there would be major capacity issues with the small trains and The Smiler which had a recent accident is this model as well, and that may push Cedar Fair away. -PolerCoaster: As far as I know none have even been built yet, so this is completely untested at this point. I'd think Cedar Fair would wait and see how the one being built in Florida goes first, before adding these to their parks. And that seems pretty much like most of the current models of coaster that KI could add that break 200', besides the hyper and giga coasters. And to be honest once Kings Island gets a Giga coaster, there isn't much else the park would really "need" (Heck IMO the park is fine ATM even pre-Giga) coaster-wise. I could see a B&M Wing or Floorless in the next decade or so, but those are not likely to go over 200', or a multi-launch terrain coaster or Wild Mouse, which also wouldn't break 200' (A 200'+ Wild Mouse would be ridiculous though in a crazy way). In short: While it's possible, other than a Giga, I don't see Kings Island building more coasters taller than Diamondback in the next decade or so.

I'm gonna go with Son of Beast for this. The mere concept of a wooden coaster over 200+ feet tall was very interesting. However, since you are allowing modifications, I'm going to make a decent number of them because as we know the original SOB had tons of issues. First up, RCCA would not be the manufacturer for obvious reasons. Instead, the "reborn" Son of Beast would be made by Intamin as one of their pre-fabricated wooden coasters, to avoid any roughness issues (plus as a Intamin prefab it would be considered wood by most, where a RMC topper track coaster would have debaters). I thought about having a more traditional coaster builder like GG or GCI but SOB was over 200 feet tall so maintenance would probably go overboard quickly due to the ride's sheer size, so computer-laser-cut or steel topped wood would be needed. It would also be made of the highest-grade best wood possible, and have structural improvements all over to prevent the issues the original SOB had. The major change I would also make to the ride's layout would be to remove the entire rose bowl helix, since it was the main area where Son of Beast had issues, and replace it with several El Toro style airtime hills and a overbanked turn-around section. This is because, even without the major issues, since I made SOB a prefab it would also be incredibly smooth and thus the massive helix would probably be boring and forceless unless it was less banked to do laterals, and laterals on a helix that big might become annoying/painful to some riders. The 2nd helix would remain however, since it was smaller and thus COULD be modified to offer up some lateral forces. I would also, in homage to the original Beast, add a tunnel to the bottom of the 1st drop and 2 more tunnels on the now only helix. The first drop would be mostly the same but re-profiled just a bit to offer up some airtime. And the final few hills/turns would be mostly the same, but re-profiled so they would have airtime and the turns near the end would be heavily banked for more thrills. There would still be a MCBR before the loop (yes I would still feature the loop) to run 3 trains for capacity reasons. As for the trains, since this ride is purely fictional, I would instead of Intamin's trains use GCI's Millennium Flyer design due to the comfort factor and how well they track (This is based on that I have now ridden them via Mystic Timbers and love them). Like the old-but-overweight Premier Rides trains, they would be themed to search vehicles that are sent out to look for Son of Beast. Which brings me to the theming aspect of the ride. I'd keep the overall theme the same (You are employees of Outpost 5, a government base, and have been sent out to look for the captured Son of Beast in its enclosure as it has gone missing) but I'd add things like music near the entrance/que just like Mystic Timbers has, and lots of the FUN TV's in the que would be related to this theme by playing video. There would also be some on-ride audio, ala Mystic Timbers, on the lift hill where, as you near the top, someone calls into the Outpost and warns that Son of Beast is still in its containment and to send back the ride vehic (they are mysteriously interrupted in true roller coaster fashion)...then you reach the top, hear a beast roar, and the ride begins. Not 100% sure where in the park it could go however, since Banshee took up SOB's spot. Maybe extend the first drop out of the station into a long tunnel that goes under Banshee, then have the final drop do the same, and have the lift hill go behind Banshee's inversions (if the tunnel must be super long, throw some airtime hills in there for kicks)? Might make it longer than the original Beast, but eh, if it happens it happens. Anyway that's my pick, and what I'd do. Granted what I have thought up is only PART Son of Beast (with some OG Beast, El Toro, and Hades 360 elements making up the rest) and would likely be crazy expensive (but money was never an object). And due to the negative press Son of Beast got, this would also likely never happen. But it was kinda fun to imagine it.

^ Maybe, but RMC would probably have had to rebuild/add a ton of support structure to Son of Beast before they could Iron Horse it given the state the structure was in. Probably would have been crazy expensive (Banshee at $24 million might have actually been CHEAPER than what it could have cost to RMC Son of Beast- and RMC SOB would still have SOB's old baggage to overcome in the GP's eyes), and it's possible very little of the original Son of Beast would have remained, structure-wise. I could see RMC leaving only the pre-lift section and lift hill, a modified version of the first drop (likely steeper and maybe with a Storm Chaser style inversion, if RMC went bonkers) and then giving the rest of the ride a entirely different and new layout (with brand new structure and everything). What they may have designed is anyone's guess. As for Son of Beast itself, I am old enough to remember it, but when I finally got up the courage to ride it in 2009...it broke down as we were walking up to ride it after riding Diamondback. Then all the stuff happened, and it was closed for good. I do vividly remember the structure and it was very cool looking, which makes me wish I had at least gotten to try it once or so, especially since I love its "father", The Beast. However I have ridden Banshee, and that coaster is awesome so I'd say it got a good replacement. Also it kinda saddens me that I may well have missed the boat on nearly all the big bad woodies of the late 80's to early 2000's from companies like Dinn and RCCA. I know the reviews on nearly all of them usually began with "THIS RIDE SUX" but I'd still have wanted to try at least of them. However, in North America at least, it seems none are left. I guess stuff the The Voyage (which I have been on and it can get really rough on a bad day- though it's also usually very awesome at the same time- however it is also more modern opening in 2006) or The Boss (Which I have NOT ridden yet- does Boss fit in with the likes of Son of Beast, Rattler, Texas Giant, Mean Streak, and Hercules? It was built in 2000, same year as Son of Beast, and is pretty huge...) are the closest ones still around. The rest have all either been demolished or RMC converted it seems.

^ I'm not 100% sure, (and using Wikipedia to find this) but a E-Ticket ride is basically "a big, major ride that is sure to draw people to the park just to ride it". Basically, for Kings Island this year, Mystic Timbers is a E-Ticket ride due to its newness and the fact it is a new roller coaster. The Beast is probably still a E-Ticket even after all these years, and Diamondback and Banshee would also be E-Tickets. A D-Ticket would be the next tier down, something that draws but is not quite top tier, such as Firehawk or WindSeeker. Then it goes down to C, B, and A tickets with a A-Ticket ride being the least popular and smallest...aka kiddie rides pretty much.

Oh dang- while this was pretty much expected so I'm not surprised, it's still kinda sad to see yet another woodie bite the dust in favor of a RMC overhaul. This move leaves only the original Coney Island Cyclone, Viper @ SFGam, and Bandit @ Movie Park Germany as the only coasters with the famous layout left according to RCDB, versus now 5 defunct coasters. Also I am kinda surprised how many companies made coasters with this particular ride layout. BTW here is a link for this ride layout on RCDB for those curious what other rides have a "Cyclone" layout: https://rcdb.com/r.htm?ot=2&lo=96&page=1&order=8

Maybe this is part of the reason I keep having very rough rides on Voyage- I have only ever been to Holiday World in very late spring (Memorial Day) or summertime. I've noticed on my many trips to Kings Island the woodies there (Beast & Racer at least- only have 1 ride on Mystic Timbers so far so can't really judge its consistency yet) seemed to run better in cool weather, so the same probably is true at Holiday World, and possibly even more extreme.

In Vortex's defense, I've seen plenty of other rides that are known to have good or even great reputations get slammed on social media sites like Facebook or Youtube. Cedar Point's Blue Streak- known for being a pretty good woodie- Cedar Point made a FB POV post of it, and there were- to my shock- tons of comments calling it garbage. Mystic Timbers- currently ranking as one of the top wooden coasters in the world in the early polls that include it- is also called garbage just because it is "only" 109 feet tall and "only" goes 53mph, even without mentioning the shed complaints. Banshee- giant inverted coaster, something KI fans had been asking to get for YEARS- has people calling it garbage too, and demanding the park tear it down and rebuild Son of Beast (Don Helbig probably takes one look at comments like that and LOLZ). If Kings Island (or any major park) builds a coaster or any ride really, odds are, someone on social media will call it garbage at least once. Also I will mention that of all the people I have met and traveled to Kings Island with personally- which is about 20+ people so far- only 3 refused to ride Vortex, and most of the others liked the ride. One of my many uncle's actually considered it his favorite coaster at the park (though that's just through conversation as I haven't been to the park with said Uncle in years). I also wanted to mention that on my Birthday this year, April 22nd, I went to Kings Island. It was cold and dreary so there were not very many lines at all, and while my sister and I (it was just us) were walking back to Mystic Timbers I noticed Vortex was stuck on the lift hill, broken down apparently. We rode Mystic Timbers with a 15-minute wait, and then walked on Beast and Diamondback. While we were "in line" (more like walking up to the station since there was no line) for Diamondback, I saw Vortex doing test runs, and we decided to ride that next- we went there and suddenly there was a 15 minute wait for Vortex, while Diamondback was still a walk-on. Vortex clearly still has something at least resembling a fan-base left if it can get a 15-minute wait for re-opening after a breakdown when everything else, save the new-for-2017 Woodie, is a walk-on. Vortex may have a few more years in it still, as long as maintenance costs aren't sky high- which I don't think they should be for such a common ride type (Arrow Loopers are everywhere and tons of companies make replacement parts), even at Vortex's age.

^ Maybe, but that would have been a lot more expensive since KI got Firehawk used off Geauga Lake and pretty much just had to pay the installation fees versus a B&M Flyer would have been a full brand-new install, and would have cost $20M+, and they were probably already planning Diamondback. And if I am thinking correctly, Cedar Fair has not yet built a single flying coaster from any company, the ones they do have were put there by other chains they acquired parks from. KI getting a B&M Flyer, even before Firehawk, was unlikely under Cedar Fair. As for Vekoma's themselves, I think they are OK but at the same time of the small # of roller coasters I have been on so far, Firehawk and Invertigo both rank near the bottom. Firehawk is good fun, but it can be rough in spots, and it has terrible capacity so the wait time is often more than I'd like to wait for it. I also have yet to ride a B&M Flying Coaster for comparison though. Invertigo is decent, but several times when I go and do ride it (usually when it has little to no wait) it has the worst un-avoidable headbanging of any ride I have ever been on (So Far- have only been to 3 parks). I have gotten more headaches from Invertigo than any other coaster. Thankfully, painkillers are one of the things we bring along when we visit Kings Island. I much perfer Banshee to get my inverted coaster fix at KI.

I did a quick check on RCDB, according to them, Intimidator SHOULD have higher capacity: it is listed at 1600pph, while Fury 325 is listed at 1470. Though RCDB's capacity numbers can be very, very incorrect at times (Flight of Fear does NOT pull 2,000pph!) and I think Intimidator's 1600pph was from before seatbelts were added. Intimidator's wait times could have also been increased if it's ride crew wasn't doing as good as job as Fury 325's, causing things like stacking and whatnot, increasing its wait to make it seem more popular when in fact the Fury 325 crew could have been kicking butt (like Banshee sometimes does) and thus not allowing huge lines to even form.

Oh dang- I looked on da webcams and saw Diamondback AND Mystic Timbers not running, so I thought it was another power outage, but Vortex and BLSC were both working so that's clearly not the case. Then I looked the Action Zone cam, and Banshee is also down (though also not a power outage since Delirium and The Bat were both running). Beast seems to be the only one of the park's "Big 4" coasters currently working, with Mystic Timbers and both B&M's down. At least the lines for the rides that are working don't look too long... UPDATE: Mystic Timbers is still down apparently, but Diamondback and Banshee are fixed now. Diamondback looks to have around a 15 minute wait.

OK, I already posted in here once (and I quote myself), but here is my "2017 Update". Some things have changed... 1. The Beast (Mainly Due to Night Rides- would be #3 if rated only on Daylight/Early Evening rides) 2. Diamondback (Rises above Banshee due to recent rides on it giving me lots more airtime than what I remember the coaster giving earlier on) 3. Banshee 4. Mystic Timbers (Did not exist in 2015) 5. Flight of Fear (Really threatens Mr. T for #4 when the MCBR is off...) 6. Vortex (From 5-1 or 7-1, ranks lower from other seats due to slight roughness increase and lack of airtime on first drop) 7. The Bat 8. Backlot Stunt Coaster (Little sucker has grown on me in recent years to pass Racer, fun little coaster) 9. The Racer (I perfer Red Side- in recent rides, it was a little rougher but also had more airtime) 10. Adventure Express 11. Firehawk (Surf Dog- if counted as a coaster- would be here. I don't see it as one though.) 12. Invertigo 13. Woodstock Express 14. Great Pumpkin Coaster NR. Flying Ace Aerial Chase (NR means never ridden) Also to be fair I will say that while these rankings are my overall, a lot of these coasters are pretty close to each other and on any given day there can be a lot of swapping places if one gives a good or bad ride.

In addition to everything already posted here, I can offer 1 more tip based on my trips to Holiday World- for a amazing view of the Waterpark as well as Voyage (and now probably Thunderbird- my last visit to HW was in 2013 so it wasn't there yet), while in the waterpark, go to ride the gigantic purple waterslide known as ZOOMbabwe. It is over 100 feet tall, and on the edge of the waterpark, so you can see nearly every other waterslide from there. Also should Legend be running (witch it should unless it breaks down), do note that it passes directly under ZOOMbabwe and when it does the entire structure shakes (same thing happens to the giant funnel slide, Zinga, next door as well as Legend passes by that one too) which can be intimidating. Also after getting the amazing view you'll probably have to ride ZOOMbabwe and it is one of the more intense and scary waterslides they have, given that not only is it huge, but the entire slide is in pitch black darkness. It's fun if you like intense, scary waterslides though.

45 minutes for Vortex!?!? The most I have ever waited is 25, and when that happened the line was out by Juke Box Diner. I'm visualizing a 45-minute wait for Vortex would probably have the line for it go past Dodgem or something.

And RMC Hurler. In seriousness, Cedar Fair is probably gonna watch very closely how the 2 2018 RMC's perform before they build more. I would not be shocked if there weren't any more in 2019, since they'd be spending 2018 watching how Mean Streak & Hurler do over at LEAST their first year. If they are successful, then we'll probably see more of them starting around the 2020-2021 time period. Cedar Fair is not gonna want another WindSeeker fiasco where they build 6 of them in 2 years and then they all begin having problems. This would also give them time to evaluate all the current wooden coasters in the chain, and decide if any of them would benefit from a full blown RMC conversion or not. Also I'll note this on Mystic Timbers (or at least the reviews of it)- most of the negative comments I have read about it online are from Facebook (when Kings Island itself does a post on MT usually) or Youtube...not exactly the best places for educated unbiased reviews. All the reviews I have seen by actual coaster enthusiasts who have actually ridden it have been very positive ("meh" is about the worst review I have ever seen and that was only once or twice out of at least 100+ reviews). It does annoy me a bit when someone who clearly has never ridden it bashes it and calls it garbage just because it's only 109 feet tall and "only" goes 53mph. Those kind of people have to be in the minority though, because from what I've seen and read on the wait times thread Mystic Timbers gets huge waits even though it does have pretty good capacity even on slow days where right across the walkway, a beloved 230-foot tall B&M Hyper is a station wait or walk-on. And by now, people should know what's in the shed, so it's probably not that part getting them to re-ride over and over...unless they are trying to get all 3, maybe more (have heard things from semi-reputable sources there is 1 more), endings but I doubt it.

I can be the 3rd person to vouch for Croakies here (If I recall The Interpreter recommended them as well)- they are very comfortable, and secure my glasses nicely. I never noticed anyone- park staff or other guests- give me any odd looks for them either, then again I have black hair and black Croakies so maybe people didn't see them. Well worth the $6 I got them for at Wal-Mart, considering my glasses are worth $80+.

Oh OK- understood.

Sorry: You weren't 100% clear so I must ask... Do what in house? Kings Island built Beast themselves- they didn't hire an outside company to do it. They also retrack it themselves regularly, though sometimes an outside company like GCI or RMC (they do more than just Iron Horse old wooden coasters- they will also do typical repairs) will be called on to help and do major work. Holiday World didn't build Raven by themselves (they hired the now-defunct Custom Coasters International), but they do partially re-track it themselves often (nearly all parks that have at least 1 wood coaster have teams of employees just to re-track and repair them- Holiday World calls theirs "The Coaster Cats"), but even they did recently hire GCI to do major work on Legend in 2016 (rebuilding the entire first drop and re-profiling the finale).

If GCI had somehow existed in 1979 and designed The Beast (and had all their modern tools) it'd very likely be nothing like the real-life Beast, save the fact both would be wooden coasters. GCI is known for their curved drops, and they try to avoid straight track as much as possible, save for brake runs (For example, Mystic Timbers after the first drop is almost always twisting, turning, or going up and down). The Beast as we know it today has a straight drop that isn't even super steep, and the track straightens out multiple times through the course (likely because it was designed for 4-row PTC trains). Those differences in design philosophy alone would likely result in a vastly different ride. Beast is an oddity in its design and is very unique- and is a product from the late 1970's- so I don't think any of the major wooden coaster companies would design something anywhere near it unless it was demanded from them. They would all probably come up with very different coasters. As to what a GCI on the scale of Beast (height and speed wise at least) might be like, well, at least one exists in China. This is Python in Bamboo Forest (formerly Viper), a GCI which has a drop of 142 feet and goes 62mph... (Basically imagine this but surrounded by trees and you'd get what GCI's "Beast" might have looked like- the video is GCI's official POV)

Good review. Interesting way to point out the mentality of how the ride thrills riders, etc. and why it doesn't work on everyone. It works on me for sure, Beast is my favorite coaster of the few I have been on so far (20+ or so so far). (Aka had that been my review I'd have given it a 10/10 instead of a 7) Also saw your review of The Voyage @ Holiday World, which was also well done much in the same way. Didn't realize the back half of that coaster was actually 100 feet in the "air" versus the station, hidden behind trees and stuff. No wonder it gains so much speed on the return run.

Well, I had another KI dream last night. In a odd twist, it began with a commercial for the then-new WaterWorks Waterpark in 1989. It was a cheesy 80's commercial where a male kid cheered on his sister while she rode a racing mat slide. Then the commercial ended, but the dream didn't. I was suddenly at Kings Island...in 1989. Riding Vortex, which back then was still very new. It had the exact same layout as it does IRL and everything. As I exited the ride, I looked and it had a huge line. Went over to The Beast- it also had a huge line but I waited anyway, it still had its old skid brakes and everything but most of the ride was a blur in my dream. Next I turned back and headed down the Coney Mall Midway- Racer had no line so I got in line for it, I chose backwards but for some reason still ended up getting the forwards train. The train had no seat belts, head rests, seat dividers or anything- just a flimsy buzz bar. The train dispatched and my dream fast forwarded the rest of the ride (Layout was accurate: it felt smooth and had tons of airtime in the dream). Then a jump cut happened and for whatever reason I was riding the Kings Island & Miami Valley Railroad, and I looked over where Diamondback's turnaround and MCBR are now IRL and there were...DUELING Invertigos!?!? (The old yellow & red paintjob was on the left, and the new paintjob was on the right and for some reason was like 10% bigger) That image must have made my mind go "WTF? Dis not right...ABORT!" because then I woke up.

Wow- I saw the first post, thought up my 6 favorite thrill rides at Kings Island before clicking, clicked the list...and I'd seriously have put those same 6 rides, just in a slightly different order (this is my personal order for those six): 1. The Beast 2. Diamondback 3. Banshee 4. Mystic Timbers 5. Flight of Fear 6. Vortex Though I found nearly every thrill ride I've ever been on at Kings Island very enjoyable, save maybe Invertigo which I think is just OK (it has great forces but it head bangs me a lot), so I'd probably recommend nearly all of them.

Firehawk is a fun ride IMO- the flying sensation feels weird, but fun, and the ride has some neat elements. The loop on Firehawk is probably one of my favorite inversions in the entire park. It can be a little rough at times (though the time it was for me I was in the very back so that might have been why), but it's also far from the roughest coaster I've ever been on. Also beware: sometimes the Sun will get in your eyes on the lift hill, since you are on your back the entire way up. However I have only been on Firehawk twice in my 12+ visits to Kings Island for 1 major reason: it's capacity is crud (it takes a LONG time to load/unload this coaster- from what I have heard this is the case with most flying coasters though), and thus it often builds a much longer wait time than I or others in our group are willing to wait for it. If we see even a few rows in that line full, it's a no-go, because even that means a LONG, slow-moving wait when it comes to that ride, and we generally don't feel like waiting a hour plus for it when other rides in the park are 15 minutes or less. It is worth riding though, if you are willing to either head straight for Firehawk (and Flight of Fear- it can also build up quite a lengthy line itself) when the gates open, since it's not the first ride most people head for (that seems to be the hot new Mystic Timbers this year) you can ride it with little to no wait, and in that case it is very much worth it (just not when the line starts to get huge). Or you could buy Fast Lane Plus (regular does not include Firehawk) if you showed up to the park a bit late and it's already crowded, and you're willing to drop a big chunk of cash.

^ Wow, that is actually one of the best recreations of Son of Beast I've ever seen. Looks accurate to what the real ride was like, at least based on POV's (never got to ride the wooden monster myself before it was scrapped). I also agree 100% on the way the ride looked- it was an amazing looking wooden structure, especially due to how tall it was AND the fact they put that pre-drop dip all the way up there. I have also attempted to make Son of Beast myself in RollerCoaster Tycoons 2 & 3 (not very good at No Limits 1 or 2, at least not enough to recreate a real ride with any accuracy at this point). Here's what my efforts came up with (in RCT3- The trees are a mod BTW but I used the in-game wooden track): http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/McSalsa/Shot0001_zpsrhqd130r.png~original http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/McSalsa/Shot0000_zpsfcezhqkg.png~original

^ Due to the 2 posts you made I noticed the error in the OP text, so I edited my first post a bit due to this. I also, just to see if there were any other ride manufacturers Cedar Fair has worked with semi-recently (since 2000) they could "re-unite" with besides Intamin or Mack, looked up on RCDB EVERY roller coaster Cedar Fair built at one of their parks from 2000 on, and who built them (not counting additions to say, Kings Island before Cedar Fair owned them since Cedar Fair wasn't the one adding Son of Beast or Backlot Stunt Coaster). I found a few companies who's last Cedar Fair coaster additions were pre-2010 or so, though do note all of these seemed to add only 1 coaster to a Cedar Fair park, then nothing since...you have Maurer Rides GmbH, Vekoma, and Gerstlauer. I could see Cedar Fair trying to re-establish a connection with some of those, for example Vekoma has shown off some interesting ride concepts recently and maybe Cedar Fair wants to try them out. So that would make 5 possible "establishing a better relationship for more coaster" companies possible versus just the previously mentioned 2. Intamin may have ONE edge- I saw a LOT of rides from them added to Cedar Fair in the early 2000's, so at one point the relationship was clearly very good between the 2 companies, and Cedar Fair's statement may want to rekindle it if Intamin can prove they can make their rides more reliable. (Though if they can't- say the Impulse rumors are true and it opens and it has major issues- I could see Cedar Fair shelving Intamin again afterwards. If Intamin is working with Cedar Fair again, they need to do a good job on this next coaster...)