McSalsa

I also rode Voyage this year, in late July. It was pretty hot but I felt the ride was much smoother this year than it was in 2011 and 2013, when I rode Voyage last. As a result, I loved how long and intense the ride was. However, wooden coasters can be moody. This year alone I have had both amazingly smooth and very rough rides on The Racer (both sides), for example. I would not be shocked to find Voyage is the same way, having its on/off days. One of my 2011 rides was among the roughest I have ever had on any roller coaster. Also, Holiday World has, if I recall, given The Voyage major track work almost every single offseason. With most wooden coasters (Raven+Legend fit this bill), parks just have to replace the top layers of track, but The Voyage requires all of them to be replaced. Per RCDB, Voyage is 159 feet tall, which makes it the tallest surviving traditional (no prefab, no topper track) wooden roller coaster in the world. Wooden coasters begin to require a lot of maintenance and you have to start limiting what elements you do with them at around 125 feet, so The Voyage is a good amount beyond that. Add the fact the ride still uses PTC 2-bench trains, which while better at it than the 3 benches are not great at sharp turns and twists, of which Voyage has plenty, and the fact you have over 6,400 feet of track to maintain and it becomes clear how hard Voyage must be to keep running at a decent level. Holiday World's wood coaster team has to work very hard to keep this ride going. I also don't think we are ever gonna see coasters like The Voyage again in my lifetime. Rides like Mean Streak, The Rattler, and Son of Beast (among others) have proven that classic wooden coasters have limits that need to be respected or the ride will have problems, possibly major ones. The Voyage really pushes those limits. If someone did try to build a even more extreme wooden coaster with old school track, it would probably end up being un-rideable quickly. But most parks now this by now, so I figure most future wooden coasters will either be smaller rides below 125 feet tall (or use terrain if they do go above that height) or use Intamin or RMC's modern track designs to increase the limits of what they can do, though at the expense of the "wooden" feel of the ride. The days of parks building 150+ foot traditional wooden coasters are probably over.

I also have never been, but from doing research, do not expect it to be like Kings Island's Haunt at all. No blood, gore, or scares- it's a very family friendly event. Also crowds are actually apparently fairly light, since the event is aimed at kids (so it does not draw the teenagers and stuff like KI's Haunt does) and the biggest draw to Holiday World, their GIANT waterpark, is closed. You should easily be able to ride all 4 big coasters (Raven, Legend, Voyage, and Thunderbird). Probably more than once, along with whatever flat rides tickle your fancy. Heck, I went on a super busy day in July this year and got on all 4 coasters no problem (though I did have to wait 1 hour for Thunderbird).

Great Trip Report! Sucks that Firehawk, in its last days, is being this unreliable. I had that exact same problem when I showed up for Haunt 2 weeks ago: it was down all day, opened up, and when we went to it, it broke down again. From your experience, sounds like it's been doing that to lots of people recently. It's been worse than even Top Thrill Dragster in that regard! Really, just makes it make sense why the park has decided to remove it, likely for something far more reliable and higher capacity, if the documents suggesting B&M are legit. Also interesting to hear how crazy Vortex was running. Especially considering it was only in the 40's, and coasters are supposed to run slower in cold temperatures, but the rain may have slicked up the track hence why it ran so fast. At least, that is my guess.

So, a Gravity Group Jr. woodie? That's actually a GREAT addition, and from the brief view of it from the animation, it looked like a Mini-Raven to me. Probably a much better addition to Kentucky Kingdom than a used Vekoma Flying Dutchman. Especially if Vekoma really has stopped making parts. I have never ridden one, but I have heard great things about these mini-woodies, and in many polls they do far better than you'd expect from their size.

I was at Kings Island yesterday, and they didn't close when Haunt began. Basically at 6pm, the monsters come out, the Haunts open, and the fog machines turned on. They did begin warning people at 5pm though over the intercoms with a pre-recorded voice-over by "The Ringmaster", and again 30 and 15 minutes before Haunt. As far as I know, only Planet Snoopy actually closes when Haunt starts. Anyone in the park when Haunt starts can do Haunt, though I would not recommend it for young children (though sadly I did see quite a few at Haunt yesterday). I didn't actually do any of the Haunted Houses, though, as those are not really my thing. I was too busy getting epic night rides on Beast, Mystic Timbers, and Diamondback.

Hello everyone! Welcome back to McSalsa's Coaster Adventures, as it is time for yet another trip report! But, per usual, first I will explain my ride/food/etc. rating system for newbies: F- Garbage. I regret ever riding this and will not make the same mistake of ever riding it again! D- Mediocre. A disappointing, or painful ride, though there might be a little fun here. I might give a D-Tier ride a second chance but it is gonna need to be a walk-on or something. C- Average. A fun ride, but either there is enough roughness/pain to dilute it, or it just does not blow me away. Will still ride this if the wait is not too bad, though. B- Good. A ride I enjoy, but it may have some flaws, but I will happily re-ride this unless the wait is pretty crazy. A- Awesome. These rides leave me with a huge grin usually, and I will ride them over and over if there is a short wait. If there are long waits around the entire park, I may aim for these anyway, as if you are gonna wait, best to be for something worth it. Surpassed only by... S- Epic. The best of the best. I am usually giddy and my happiness meter is maxed out after riding one of these. Tragically, these are not the most common rides out there, however.  Note: If you wanna take this as a 1-10 system, S=10, A=9, B=8, C=7, D=6, and F=5 or worse. Our group for this trip was the usual, at least for the start. There was me, my sister, and our 2 main friends who have been coming with us the last 2 years (Friend A who has been overcoming a fear of coasters and cannot do most looping coasters, and Friend B who is less afraid but also can do looping rides). Later on my sister's best friend- along with her boyfriend- joined the group, which I will point out when it happens. Anyway, let's begin the trip report! We arrived at the park around 10:15 AM, so we easily made it in time for ERT. The parking lot was pretty full for being 15 minutes early to ERT, which was a sign of things that would come later. However, we got in the park, and as a few of us were craving Diamondback, we went to that first. Ride #1+2: Diamondback (ERT) Waits: Walk-On, 5 Minutes for Front Well, I guess a lot of the cars in the parking lot were not for ERT, because Diamondback had no wait when we got to it, so we ended up riding it twice in a row. We rode near the back on our first ride, and got lots of floater air over nearly every hill. On our 2nd ride, Friend A wanted front seat, so we rode there and got epic views and I noticed the style of airtime felt very different, it was more like weak ejector and it also tended to only happen on top of the hills. Both rides were smooth, and very fun. A great ride to begin the day with! Rating: A After Diamondback, we quickly got a locker for 2 hours, and then went over to ride Mystic Timbers. Ride #3: Mystic Timbers (ERT) Wait: Walk-On We rode near the back of the train, and got a pretty solid ride on Timbers. There was good airtime, and the ride whipped through the course. One thing I have noticed the last 2 years since I have taken advantage of ERT and gotten lots of rides in, is that most rides tend to run better later in the day or at night versus in the morning hours. This was the case here: it was a lot of fun, but I felt Mystic Timbers was running just a little slower than it does later in the day. Also I got the rarest (supposedly) of endings, Tree, in the shed. Rating: A- After Mystic Timbers, ERT was over, so we decided to go ride The Beast before we got our stuff from our lockers and went to X-Base. Ride #4: The Beast Wait: Walk-On Just like Mystic Timbers, Beast in the morning is fun, but it feels slower than later in the day as it hasn't broken in yet. Still gave a pretty good ride, though the trims were also kinda biting, I even felt the one on the first drop for the first time. Helix, as usual, was crazy though. A fun ride, and hey, it had no wait. Rating: B+ After The Beast, we got our stuff from the lockers, and my friends wanted to smoke at the Reds HOF Grille section. Since I don't smoke, and it had no wait... Ride #5: Mystic Timbers #2 Wait: Walk-On ...MOAR MYSTIC TIMBERZ!!! It rode about the same as earlier, but this time I got snakes. Rating: A- I got off MT and met up with my friends. Then we headed towards X-Base, however, we stopped at "The Graveyard" to see Firehawk's grave site. We also noticed from here that Firehawk did not appear to be running. Then, we got a message from my sister's friend that she had arrived, so we met her at the Eiffel Tower along with her boyfriend. After a brief chat, we decided (a bit randomly) to go ride... Ride #6: Backlot Stunt Coaster Wait: 5 Minutes I am not sure why, but whenever we "randomly" ride a roller coaster, it usually ends up being Backlot. This was the typical Backlot ride, all the 2018 effects were still working, the helix had really good G's, and there was also a nice pop of airtime after the overbanked turn on the small hill. Rating: C After Backlot, we headed to X-Base to see if Firehawk was truly closed. It was, they were having issues, so we went for Flight of Fear instead. Ride #7: Flight of Fear Wait: 15 Minutes The line was out of the main building, but thankfully none of the inside ques were open, so it was only about a 15 minute wait. Flight of Fear was running pretty well, a little rough but besides 1 moment where it threw my shoulder into the side of the car nothing too bad (and even after that I was OK- I can still kinda feel it if I move my shoulder too much though). Even now, I am still boggled they fit all that track and supports into the building- you could kinda see it because the colored lights were all working. Another fun ride. Rating: B After Flight of Fear, we exited and looked at Firehawk again- still down- and then left the area hoping it would open at some point. We were hungry at this point and decided to get some food, we had heard about the Mac & Cheese Bar and decided to eat there. It was not ready to open when we first arrived, so we headed out back to pond and my friends got some beer and smoked (I do not do either of these things) and I relaxed for a bit. I really do love the Oktoberfest Pond area, you get a great view of Banshee, Drop Tower, and Delirium on one side, the top of Racer can be seen, Viking Fury can be seen right next door (and even heard) and the Eiffel Tower is clearly visible as well plus you have a nice pond. Then the Mac N' Cheese Bar opened... FOOD: Hank's Mac N' Cheese Bar I got the Spicy Mac N' Cheese, and for my toppings, I chose shredded cheese, bacon, and chicken. The Mac N' Cheese was not as spicy as I was expecting, and the chicken was somewhat dry but also had a bit of a "smokey" taste to it. However, it tasted very good, especially when it was all put together. I gobbled my bowl down pretty quick, usually a sign something was great. However what I didn't like was the price. There was no sign to tell what the price of the Mac N' Cheese bar was, so we just got it, and I was expecting like $8 or something based on the size of the bowl, but it was $13! Now if they were giving the 2x sized version that Winterfest 2017 had, yes $13 would be fine, but this? Overpriced, even for Kings Island standards. At least it tasted good, though. Rating: A for Taste, D- for Value After the Mac N' Cheese Bar, Friend A suggested we go ride The Racer as it was close by and had no wait. We ended up riding Blue Racer. Ride #8: Blue Racer Wait: Walk-On I don't know how or why, but for some reason...Blue Racer was running insanely smooth! This was the smoothest ride I have ever had on Blue Racer, it felt more like Mystic Timbers than Blue Racer. Even the "rough spot" wasn't so bad, though it was still there (felt like a weak vibration instead of a THUNK though). We also got good airtime, and we won the race in spite of Red Racer dropping of the lift first! Woo-hoo! I wish Racer ran like this a bit more often! Rating: B+ After Racer, we headed over to Action Zone, and my sister actually wanted to try Drop Tower (she has been afraid of it for a long time). A few others do not wanna do it (mainly Friend A and Sister's Friend) but the rest of us get in line. We wait 15 minutes, get halfway there (it was about a 30 minute wait as crowds were starting to pick up). Drop Tower suddenly remembered it was a Intamin and broke down. D'oh! So, we headed over to ride The Bat instead. Ride #9: The Bat Wait: 5 Minutes Bat was also pretty much its usual self: fun, swingy turns and twists and it's over pretty quick. There was a actual pop of airtime on one of the turns, though. Also I was looking at the layout from the walkway and noticed there is essentially a 2nd drop after the turn over the station that is nearly as big as the first drop, no wonder those final turns go so fast! Friend B, who I was riding with, said this blows Iron Dragon out of the water and I agree. Also, we had to wait a few minutes on the brake run, as there was a barf train ahead of us. Eww. Rating: C+ After The Bat, we gave Friend A our stuff, was we were gonna ride Banshee and didn't want to get a locker and he cannot do inversions. Ride #10: Banshee Wait: 30 Minutes 30 Minute Wait for Banshee!?!? Oh boy, the crowds are kicking in. Granted, Banshee is a people eater, so a 30-minute wait had a LOT of people in line. But at least the line was constantly moving, and we got a great ride at the end. Banshee kinda reminds me of, ironically, a invert version of Millennium Force because both are big and fast, and have huge elements. The main difference is on Banshee those are inversions, versus overbanked turns on Millennium Force. Banshee does pull a bit more G's though. Rating: A When Banshee came into the brake run, I saw Drop Tower running again, with riders, so I went to check the line...and it was much shorter than before, probably because the ride just re-opened. So, I talked my sister into it again, and we got back in line. Ride #11: Drop Tower Wait: 5 Minutes Drop Tower may no longer be the tallest ride I have ever ridden, but it is still pretty tall, and a little unnerving (though not nearly as much as when I first rode it). It is a simple ride, yet it is quite effective, and the drop is fun. My sister found it to be more bark than bite, just like TTD. And again I am proud of her for finally riding something she found scary. The ride itself was pretty fun as well, I saw a McDonalds way off in the distance (we faced Bat on the way down). Rating: B After Drop Tower, my sister's friend wanted to ride Invertigo. I have not done Invertigo all year, so I went with it. Ride #12: Invertigo Wait: 30 Minutes I was kinda expecting to get head-banged again (this is one ride that has done it consistently before), but to my surprise, Invertigo behaved and was actually pretty smooth (new wheels? They looked like they were in good shape). As such, I was able to enjoy the ride and the very strong G forces in the loops. This is a fun ride when it behaves, which seems to be about 60% of the time based on the rides I have taken. However, I saw something horrible when I looked down from the lift: huge crowds of people coming in for Haunt. DA DA DUM! Rating: C After Invertigo, my group (Friends A+B plus sister) wanted to run out to the car to grab a few things before Haunt began. I stuck with her friend and boyfriend, and we ended up going up the Eiffel Tower for some views while we waited. Ride #13: Eiffel Tower Wait: Walk-On Looking around from 265 feet up, you could tell the park was getting packed. Diamondback was almost 80% full, and was actually using some of the ques near the lift hill for the first time I have seen all year! Banshee also had a big line, and Racer was out the door. Yep, it is a Haunt Saturday. The views of the park, as usual, were nice. When I looked at Firehawk I imagined what a Giga coaster would look like from up here, due to all the rumors. A quick but fun trip up. Won't rate this though, since it really is less of a ride in a traditional sense, and more of a viewing platform. Rating: NA Afterwards, we met back up with the main group and we decided to go ride Adventure Express. Ride #14: Adventure Express Wait: 15 Minutes Thank goodness AE rarely ever goes over a 20-minute wait, even on busy days. We even got front row! Thus, great views of all the scenery and stuff. It did kinda feel like the back of the train was slowing us down, though, at points. It was also a little jerky, and the final tunnel's main temple dude's eyes were not glowing, though the bucket effect was working. Pretty good ride overall though. Rating: C After Adventure Express, my companions all got some more beer (one of them spent almost $40 on beer!) and The Haunt began, as we heard over the intercoms. As we had friends who wanted to do Haunts and others who wanted to do rides, we split up. My sister and Friend B left to do Haunts, leaving me, Friend A, Sister's Best Friend, and SBF Boyfriend as the group I was with. They had not done any of the rides in Rivertown, and Friend B was craving Diamondback too, so we went over and rode it again. Ride #15: Diamondback #3 Wait: 30 Minutes Diamondback had apparently gone down and re-opened, so the line had thinned out quite a bit. However, this SHOULD have been a 15-20 minute wait, but there was a issue. What I will call, Fast Lane Clog. Fast Lane Clog happens when so many people have Fast Lane, a actual line for Fast Lane users forms, and as such the capacity of the ride for both lines is cut in two. This was the first time I have seen Kings Island so crowded this has happened, besides Banshee Opening Day 2014. Thankfully, to somewhat counter this, the DB Crew was doing a epic job getting trains out, very few stacks and a few trains were on the lift as soon as the one ahead was hitting the MCBR. They were not power-houring either, they were able to do this because I saw like 8 people checking restraints! So, not too bad a wait, considering the crowds. And the ride was running faster now, smooth and TONS of airtime. Great ride, though the Fast Lane Clog was annoying. Rating: A+ When we were about to get on Diamondback, I saw Firehawk running. So we went over there, and found a decent but not terrible looking line. We got in line, and instantly it seemed as soon as we got in line...Firehawk broke down. We waited 15 minutes to see if they could fix it, but it became kinda clear it was gonna be a issue. Knowing this ride is on its last legs, and is reportedly having issues getting parts, we realized this was gonna be the case all night and thus riding Firehawk was gonna be a no-go this day. We are hoping that our group can return one more time before Firehawk closes, probably on a less busy Sunday, and perhaps we can do final rides then. With that disappointment behind us, we headed to go ride the other coaster rumored to close, but isn't...Vortex. Also, I will note even as crowded as it was (and with 2 Haunts back here!) even with the under-construction Antique Cars taking up half the midway, I didn't think it was too cramped. Ride #16: Vortex Wait: 15 Minutes Vortex was stacking trains pretty badly, but they were very under-staffed compared to Diamondback so it wasn't a big shock and the wait was still only 15 minutes. They were assigning seats though (could have probably asked but we didn't wanna jam the line), we got the 2nd car, I offered to take the cramped back seat but my sister's friend and her boyfriend took it, Friend A sat this out because it has loops. Boyfriend tried to ride with his $30 Hat, which ended up being a dumb decision as Vortex stole it. The ride did also have some jerky moments, I did get neck-banged (I am too tall for this ride to headbang) once though it wasn't too bad (though if I move my neck a lot I still feel it, kinda like what FOF did to my shoulder). I also felt like a hamster in a ball, I was moving around in my restraints especially in the corkscrews and got great hang time. I did feel Vortex felt smoother in the Corkscrews than Corkscrew did, the rough spots were in the turn-around and helix. The sharp turn before the MCBR also didn't feel as bad from the 2nd car. I still would have preferred the back cars though, as I missed the airtime from those seats. I do think new trains with vest restraints would make this ride better, reliability and capacity wise it's fine. (It was running all day and I didn't see it go down once) Rating: C After riding the Hat-Eating Vortex (My Sister's Friend did say she would replace the Hat) we went back to Oktoberfest and they had some more beer, and we met back up briefly with my sister and her friend doing haunts with her. Also, while I mentioned how cool this area was during the day, at night it was even cooler looking! We talked for a bit, and we ended up deciding to split up again, with our group going to ride... Ride #17: The Beast #2 (Night) Wait: 60 Minutes This was the longest I have waited for Beast in a while, as they were using the 1st que house for the first time in ages. However, the line moved very well, thanks to a good ride crew and the fact each train does carry 36 riders. I liked how the lights in the que houses were red and ominous (can't remember if they were like that for non-Haunt), and The Beast Graveyard (with SOB logo on the gravestones) was a neat addition. We eventually boarded the trains, and headed into the woods. This was a epic night ride. It was very dark out, and it felt like the woods were consuming me. The ride was at that perfect level of roughness: bouncy and out-of-control feeling but not painful. And the ride felt like it was hauling, I did notice a few of the trims but it felt like they could only barely slow the train at all. The tunnels were very dark and loud, and the helix was epic. I did have 1 issue, not with the ride though- in the long tunnel, mid-ride, I saw a dim white light up ahead. Some idiot was filming the ride with their phone! I doubt it was even good footage, that arm they were holding up was swaying a lot (and I think they stopped filming during the helix realizing their phone was in danger). I hope they caught them on the on-ride photo or something, while nothing bad did happen, that idiot could have hurt someone. The Beast itself after dark was amazing though, granted at this point I am not surprised. Rating: S After The Beast, we went to use the bathrooms, and then Friend A was hungry, so he went to get a Pizza. I went and got a soda with my season pass drink plan, and he ended up getting a plate of 2 slices and breadsticks, and he kindly shared them with me. FOOD: LaRosa's Pizza Rivertown There was a line out the door, but this place was getting the Pizza out fast, so it moved very fast. The Pizza- we got cheese- was pretty good, a little heavy on the sauce but the cheese tasted great. The breadstick also tasted good. I thanked the friend for getting us both food. Rating: B After we got food, we went through half of Pumpkin Eater to check it out (it was pretty cool) and then turned around to go to Mystic Timbers. Ride #18: Mystic Timbers #3 (Night) Wait: 45 Minutes The Mystic Timbers crew was sending out trains like crazy, so in spite of the huge crowds and this ride's crazy popularity, the wait was only 45 minutes. Also, remember how I said Mystic Timbers feels like it runs slower in the morning? Well, that is really "slow in comparison" to how it feels later in the day, especially at night. And on this night, Mystic Timbers was HAULING. Lots of airtime and sudden twists, turns, and drops all in near complete darkness, save for the WWC entrance which glowed orange like a pumpkin, LOL. Even the shed was better at night, as it looks creepier and is darker inside. We got snakes, for the 2nd time for me. Also this was my sister's friend and her boyfriend's first ride on Mystic Timbers- they loved it, so it made a great first impression on them. Rating: S After getting a amazing ride on Mystic Timbers, we headed back to the restrooms near BLSC yet again to meet my sister and Friend B, who thanks to Fright Lane had done all the Haunts in the park. They liked CHAOS the best. We discussed riding Beast again, but Friend A wanted to ride Diamondback at night badly. My sister's friend and her boyfriend decided it was time to leave now, as it was after 11pm and they wanted to get home, but we wanted to do 1 more ride. We ended up choosing Diamondback, per Friend A's request. Ride #19: Diamondback #4 (Night) Wait: 30 Minutes There were actually more people in line than earlier, but thankfully the Fast Lane clog was gone, and the crew was still doing a epic job with dispatches. So the wait was about the same. Like everything else at night, Diamondback was epic. It wasn't as secluded as Beast or Mystic Timbers (mainly because it comes up and reminds you that you are in a amusement park) but it still had some very dark sections, and the airtime was great. It was also very smooth, and because of that the ride was somewhat relaxing in a way. Kings Island has so many rides that give epic night rides, and they are all very different. Rating: S After Diamondback, we headed to the Eiffel Tower as my sister wanted to go up for 1 last view. Oh, wait, the eyes were on...IT IS EVIL TOWER, MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Ride #20: Eiffel (Evil) Tower #2 (Night) Wait: Walk-On The views of the park at night, with fog all around and all lit up, were cool. The atmosphere of the park in general was great. I also saw the parking lot, it looked like it was gonna be much easier to leave versus how it was preview night. (Again not gonna rate this because it is not really a traditional ride) Rating: NR And after the epic views from above, we headed out of the park after a long but epic day. We saw a few monsters around here, one of them even did a funny gag and slid in and did a pose right after we had a group photo taken, LOL. I'll note I didn't see many monsters around 6pm when Haunt began, but more came out as the night went on. Now finally, here are the Pros/Cons of this trip: PROS +Awesome Rides +Ride Ops Doing a AMAZING Job on multiple rides (Especially The "Big 4"), in spite of the crowds this helped keep waits do-able +Good Food +Amazing Park Atmosphere, especially during Haunt +Light Crowds Early CONS -Huge Crowds during Haunt, which also attracted a few idiots (Like the person filming on Beast) -Fast Lane Clog at Diamondback -Price of Mac N' Cheese Bar (It's good, but $13 for a simple bowl? The LaRosa's we had later was a MUCH better value IMO) -Firehawk having issues, preventing me from taking last rides. Makes me further accept and understand why the park wants to get rid of it. Anyhow, that is it. Comments and questions welcome! McSalsa away!

Someone on Reddit looked this video up, and I agree that given that Firehawk is about to leave KI, it makes sense to share it. Here is how X-Flight was introduced way back in 2001. BUT BEWARE: LOTS AND LOTS OF 90'S/EARLY 2000'S CHEESINESS!

So, the rumors were true. It was Firehawk. Now, let's see what Kentucky Flyer turns out to be. Also I am expecting a construction fence in X-Base...is it still even that anymore? Flight of Fear gonna be the only ride back there next year. Basically it's just gonna be the Flight of Fear area again, as it was from 1996-2006. Firehawk was a decent coaster, I did like it, but I can understand why the park is removing it. Firehawk had to have been a maintenance nightmare, and it was known for breaking down a lot. And if Vekoma really did back off on the support for the model, then well, that probably made this decision easy for the park. Also, odd fact: this will be the first coaster I have ever ridden that went defunct. I have been on flat rides and stuff that went defunct, but no roller coasters (I didn't seriously begin riding them until 2009 and missed Son of Beast)...until now. I am kinda surprised it will be Firehawk of all coasters getting that title. I am planning on going to Kings Island with a group of friends for haunt this weekend, so I will probably get my final rides in this weekend. Oh and finally: F

Hmm. Interesting- though that one does look like it is using the newer Vekoma track. Also IMO, for a flying coaster that layout looks pretty good, with the dive loop and zero-G roll. Those elements are fun on Banshee and I'd imagine they would be fun on a flying coaster. And since this is using newer track, I'd imagine it'd be smoother than Firehawk is to boot. That does damage the rumor that parts aren't being made, if Vekoma does still offer the model. Though the SBNO status of Batwing still suggests something went wrong there this year, and Firehawk is known to not be the most reliable coaster ever. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens when the park does make the final announcements this week, and when Kentucky Kingdom finally reveals Kentucky Flyer. I'm probably gonna go to the park this weekend, so I hope I know by then so I know which ride to focus on getting those last rides in on.

Hmm. Just saw DeltaFlyer's post (glanced over it due to how many posts are here first time) and that is VERY interesting that apparently no demolition companies are involved. I will also note that I cannot confirm if Vekoma is still making parts for Flying Dutchmen or not, it was just a rumor I heard and it could be false (not sure why any company that makes coasters and coaster parts would do that- if that is the case Vekoma is hurting themselves BADLY because this is gonna turn-off companies like Six Flags or Cedar Fair), though Vekoma may have simply raised the prices or something (Flying Dutchmen parts may need to be "special ordered" due to the model's rarity- Since Batwing is still down, Six Flags seems like they don't want to pay for this as well.) If they still are making parts, just at higher prices, then the relocation to Kentucky Kingdom theory gains a little traction. It could just be Cedar Fair isn't willing to pay that much to upkeep Firehawk anymore, especially with the recent struggles and cuts, so they put it up for sale and Kentucky Kingdom is willing to put in the money to maintain this ride if they acquired it for fairly cheap. While it does help a competitor (to some extent- not sure how much a used coaster is gonna boost Kentucky Kingdom), Cedar Fair may just have wanted to get rid of the expensive-to-run Firehawk and make some money from the sale at the same time, plus this does open a big chunk of land for Kings Island to add something big, probably the rumored 2020 B&M (and any money made by selling Firehawk can negate a bit of the expenses of the new coaster). And Kentucky Kingdom gets to advertise their "new" flying coaster without needing to spend the huge cost to actually build a new coaster, though maintenance will probably still cost a lot. Though in that way it'd kind of be like a wooden coaster: cheap to buy, but more expensive to maintain. Also, since no demolition companies were listed on that list, if that's the case than every Arrow in the park is safe because there is no way Cedar Fair is re-selling any of those because Arrow welded their track together, and all of them are very old. Plus they all use terrain so any park that would buy them would need custom terrain. All the Arrows at Kings Island are probably gonna be demolished, not re-located, when their time does come. This whole offseason, in the span of 1 week, has IMO gotten pretty crazy all of a sudden. So many theories.

The more I look into this, the more I think it's Firehawk that's gonna leave. Apparently, rumor is, Vekoma has STOPPED supplying parts for some of their unpopular older models, and the Flying Dutchman, and since these models are so rare it is now a huge pain in the rear end to get parts. Six Flags America's Flying Dutchman, Batwing, has been closed since at least July, and apparently will be down the rest of the year as well according to Six Flags' website: https://www.sixflags.com/america/attractions/thrill-rides If the Kentucky Kingdom buying Firehawk rumor is also true, then Kentucky Kingdom may have just made a very stupid mistake, buying a used coaster it will be very tough to get parts for (though I don't think they are that dumb and this rumor could easily be false- Kentucky Flyer could be a flat ride). It may also be the case that Cedar Fair is scrapping Firehawk just so they can keep Nighthawk at Carowinds running a few more years, and rumor has it this was part of the reason they also scrapped Stinger at Dorney Park (so Invertigo at Kings Island can have spare parts for a while longer, the Invertigo model is another one parts have stopped being made for according to the rumor). In comparison, Arrow Looping Coasters, while rough, are very easy to gets parts for due to how common they are and how simple their core design is. Vortex needs new wheels? Very easy to get new ones. Firehawk needs new wheels? Uh-oh. And this could also mean Invertigo, while probably safe for now, may also not be too long for this world as eventually the spare parts they likely ripped from Stinger will run out, and it is also a rare model, unless a 3rd party starts making parts for it, but with so few Invertigo models out there (4 according to RCDB) that may not happen.

Put me in the same boat as Rivertown Rider: Beast, with Banshee a close 2nd behind it. I'd say The Bat probably has the worst sign of all the rides that have them (I don't think Flight of Fear, for example, even has one right now) since it is literally paper attached to a metal pole, though I think The Bat's logo itself is fine.

I am leaning Firehawk as well, due to maintenance reasons, but will admit Vortex is getting really old and its popularity is dropping bit by bit every year (though I'd still be surprised to see it going before some of the other, less popular Arrow loopers that are still hanging around). WindSeeker could be another option but it doesn't take up much space, though at over 300 feet tall it easily fits the "big" bill. Though depending on which one does leave, affects what I think will replace it, though TBH for WindSeeker I can't think of anything ATM. We have good evidence the 2020 project is gonna be a B&M thanks to leaked documents. If Firehawk goes, its location is prime for the long-rumored Giga coaster, and they can expand the X-Base area with a gift shop, restaurant, or even the much requested bathrooms. Though Firehawk's spot is VERY open, so pretty much anything B&M makes could technically fit there. For The Vortex location, it's a little more cramped. A Giga may not fit, you have Racer and WindSeeker (if that sticks around) on 1 side and Diamondback and eventually Mystic Timbers on the other. The spot is large enough for a Dive Coaster, Floorless, or Wing Coaster though. TBH I could see a Dive Coaster working very well in that spot, have it face the Eiffel Tower and Diamondback before the drop and you have a epic view. Though I imagine with almost everyone thinking "GIGA!" everytime, if we got one of those 3 options people would still be miffed. Heck, they'd be miffed if it was a Giga just because it's likely a B&M ("BUT I WANTED A RMC T-REX GIGA!!!"). I feel really bad for VortexBFForever though. From what I have gathered, she loves all 3 of the rides this "hint" probably suggests are getting removed. Also, I am curious why they would tease a ride removal like this, you would think they'd just be straight-up like: "Yo, we are removing (Insert Ride Here) at the end of this season, ride it as much as possible during Haunt 2018 before it goes." And then have a Mean Streak-esque funeral on closing day of Haunt.

Based on my Cedar Point experiences, for a larger rider, I would try these rides: The B&M's (Valravn, GateKeeper, Raptor, Rougarou): As mentioned by both other posts, the 4 B&M coasters at Cedar Point do have the "Big Boy" seats. Valravn and GateKeeper should, in theory, be the same as Banshee as they have the exact same restraint system. Raptor and Rougarou have the old-fashioned OTSR's, but they also have the Big Boy seating and since you could fit Invertigo you should also be able to fit those just fine. Magnum XL-200, Gemini, and Iron Dragon: If you could ride Adventure Express and The Bat just fine, these 3 rides should also be do-able. Gemini and Magnum XL-200 both feature restraints similar to Adventure Express, and Iron Dragon is the exact same ride model as The Bat (with a different, more tame layout). Cedar Creek Mine Ride: The cars themselves are similar to Adventure Express, but it has a different T-Bar shaped restraint system. I don't know if that makes it better or worse for large riders, but it did seem pretty accommodating. Blue Streak: Same exact style of train as The Racer or Beast, only difference is the headrests have gaps in them on Blue Streak (which in terms of larger riders means nothing pretty much). If you can do those, you should be OK on this. Corkscrew: This one is a maybe, since you didn't mention if you could fit on Vortex or not. But if you could fit on The Bat, you might be able to fit on this. I don't know if Corkscrew has a test seat though. Maverick: King Ding Dong did suggest this one, I would try the test seat out front if I was you. It can get a really long line and it would suck to stand in it for a hour plus only to get a walk of shame. (If you are staying on-site and have ERT, I would use it on this if you can fit!) I would say the rides KDD listed as no-go's probably are all gonna be walks of shame, as those are not very big people friendly. I am not large at all (5'10 200lbs), and I once had trouble on Wicked Twister! They also have MANY flat rides at Cedar Point, you should be able to do a decent amount of them as well. WindSeeker may be a no-go, though, if I am correct there is a 300lb limit on rider weight on that one (read it on a sign outside the ride), though I had a friend squeeze by at 310 and ride it with me not knowing that. It may also depend on the size of the person with you on that ride. Also, while Cedar Point can get VERY crowded during Haunt, the one good thing about the rides I do think you can fit on is a lot of them, minus Raptor, Valravn, and Maverick (prepare to wait AT LEAST 1 hour for those, possibly even 2!) are older, less popular coasters so the wait for them usually will not be as bad (unless the park becomes super crowded, then expect to wait 45 minutes for Corkscrew! Though this usually does not happen until October).

^ In addition those, I would say parks have a 4th factor- operating cost. However, I don't think Vortex's operating costs are too crazy either. It's a Arrow Looper, a SUPER common model, and even though Arrow has gone out of business so many other companies make parts for this model it is pretty ridiculous. It's also a pretty simple design at its core, with no fancy extra bits like a Suspended or Flying coaster would have. I would not be shocked if Vortex turned out to be cheaper to run than Firehawk, for example, for these very reasons (since I'd imagine Firehawk is probably a lot more complex and has more parts due to its flying design). In fact, I looked up the Arrow Looping Coasters on RCDB the other day- a LOT of them are actually still operating, even a bunch of the ones from the 1970's. A few have closed, but a few of those even were because their entire park was shut down. I'd imagine the ease of getting parts, high capacity, good reliability, and the model's excellent safety record are probably why so many parks are still holding onto their Arrow loopers in spite of the decreasing popularity. Metal fatigue may eventually start to kick in enough to start their removal, but I'd imagine that will hit the older ones first, and Vortex is one of the newer Arrow loopers so we would see a few other parks (probably ones that don't have as much free land as Kings Island but want to add new coasters) remove their Arrow loopers prior to Vortex kicking the bucket. I do think new trains with vest restraints like the Vekoma MK1212 would make Vortex a better ride though, however I'd hope the airtime from the back cars on the first drop would remain intact as I find that to be a highlight of the ride. It probably would not return the ride back to 90's levels of popularity, but it would probably really help with the headbanging complaints, possibly to the point where the ride would be much less hated. It would still have its awkward transitions though, they just would not headbang riders anymore. Also if Vortex did get new trains it would probably mean it's staying around for a good while longer, as new trains are NOT a cheap investment.

Hmm. Wikipedia may be pretty off. I went to web sites for these parks, and hand counted all the rides I saw listed there (had to try and avoid dupes as some parks would list the same ride under multiple categories). This includes kiddie rides. I got these results- also, for comparison, I give the numbers I got with and without waterpark: Kings Island- 49 rides (66 with waterpark) Cedar Point- 71 rides (88 with waterpark) (I imagine Wiki's 72 was correct for main park but Witches Wheel has just been removed) Carowinds- 42 rides (56 with waterpark) Canada's Wonderland- 61 rides (77 with waterpark) Holiday World- 33 rides (52 with waterpark) Kentucky Kingdom- 38 rides (57 with waterpark) These numbers make more sense to me- Holiday World and Kentucky Kingdom are small, family parks and while they have big waterparks, they aren't gonna have as many total rides as a place like Kings Island. Carowinds, ironically, is only barely ahead of them in ride count however and if you include their waterparks, Kentucky Kingdom has more rides than them! Cedar Point and Canada's Wonderland are clearly ahead of everyone else, since both those parks have lots of coasters, big kids areas, lots of flats, and decent-sized waterparks. Also note these are the 2018 numbers so they don't count the new-for-2019 rides like Yukon Striker, Copperhead Strike, Kings Mills Antique Autos, or whatever any of these parks add for next year.

Well, the full Top 50 of each list has been posted, and what I thought would be the case turned out to be true: Mystic Timbers WAS just outside the Top 10 woodies, it was #11, and was only beaten for #10 by less than 20 points. http://goldenticketawards.com/2018-top-50-wooden-coasters/

To be honest, I am a bit surprised Mystic Timbers didn't break into the Top 10 woodies, given Kings Island seems to be a pretty popular park and in head-to-head comparisons it does fare pretty well versus Beast, which got ranked #5. I imagine it made the Top 15 but we won't know that until the full Top 50 get posted.

Nope- the area is sometimes partially open for some haunts, but all Planet Snoopy rides are closed down, save for Boo Blasters on Boo Hill which is technically I-Street. On Saturdays when the park opens at 11AM, Planet Snoopy will be open but it closes around the time Haunt begins.

Based on what I have heard, RCCA was chosen because CCI overbid (charged way too much- on purpose, they actually did NOT want this project, and since they were the leader in wooden coasters at the time that should have been a huge red flag) and Intamin was not super well known for the wooden coasters in 1999 when Son of Beast was built (they had a mixed track record with their large wooden coasters in Japan and stuff at the time- Colossos at Heide Park was the first prefab and the first to get glowing reviews all around). Plus, RCCA probably offered to build Son of Beast for cheaper.

Maybe- depends on a LOT of factors. Manufacturer, Layout, etc etc. KK probably would not get a B&M Hyper since they are so expensive, but a Mack Hyper (like DC Rivals in Australia) would be something new that has not yet come to the USA and would thus be able to get quite a bit of attention.

Well, I have been to Holiday World again since I wrote this (went last July) and have some updated thoughts: Voyage was running MUCH better in 2018, in spite of being trimmed at the mid-course brake run. Still had PLENTY of intensity, the airtime was back in spades, and the ride was considerably smoother than in 2011 or 2013, I would say it beats a wheel seat on any of the Cedar Fair woodies using the 3-bench PTC's (Blue Streak, Racer, and Beast) in terms of smoothness. I also got a night ride on it, which was incredible. As such, Voyage shot up from being outside my Top 10 to being my #3 overall coaster and new favorite woodie, behind only Steel Vengeance and Maverick. The GCI overhaul also didn't affect my opinion of Legend too much, though I'd say Legend is now easily the 2nd smoothest wooden coaster I have ever been on (Mystic Timbers is #1). The laterals in the final few corners lost a tiny bit of oomph, though, so Legend pretty much stayed where it was on my rankings. Voyage surpassed it to return to being my favorite coaster at Holiday World with its huge rise, but Legend is still my #3 woodie, just edging out Mystic Timbers. Add in the short-but-sweet Raven, which was also running pretty well on my last visit, and you have a great collection of wood coasters, I'd even say the best of the 3 parks I have been to (just barely edging out Kings Island, and Cedar Point is...well...Blue Streak is good but by itself it stands no chance against the other park's collections. CP needs more woodies.). I also finally got to ride Thunderbird- it is a solid B&M, though due to the short length of the coaster, I did like GateKeeper a bit better. Thunderbird is a good ride in its own right though, and it is more forceful than GateKeeper is. I really like the slow roll at the end, it's even better than Banshee's, and the launch, while not Top Thrill Dragster, is pretty forceful. I'll put it this way: I waited in line for a HOUR to ride Thunderbird (Saturday in July) and did not feel jipped when I got off. That is a sign of a good ride. The rest of my OG comments still ring true- the waterpark is still amazing as usual, with the 2 water coasters being the stars. Though even Holiday World isn't perfect: we had some issues with food service at Wildebeestro, though the park's main guest services really were amazing. And the dispatches could be MUCH better on their coasters, Voyage was stacking its 2 trains and that coaster has a 3-minute long ride, even with bins that feels like it never happens at a Cedar Fair park unless you are talking about Firehawk. (Though I do like that all the coasters there have bins, making Lockers less of a need) And if you aren't really into waterparks, you're gonna be re-doing the same coasters and flat rides over and over because the sheer number of rides at Holiday World isn't nearly Kings Island level, much less Cedar Point. But the Pro's of this park still very much outweigh the cons, I would highly recommend this park, especially to fans of wooden coasters and waterslides. Oh, and to keep this on topic: Yes, I do think Kings Island competes with area parks- more Kentucky Kingdom than Holiday World since it directly attracts the Louisville market, but I do think Holiday World does still have some effect. Kings Island may not be first park Cedar Fair tries new concepts at, but we are still getting new rides (especially if they are hits at the other parks) and I think KK and HW are one of the reasons why. If those 2 parks did not exist, there would be far less of a incentive to improve Kings Island. Banshee, Mystic Timbers, and the rumored 2020 B&M (Giga?) would probably not happen if Kentucky Kingdom and Holiday World were not tugging customers away from Kings Island. Heck, the whole reason I think Kings Island might actually get a Giga from B&M in 2020 would be a preemptive move to make Kentucky Kingdom getting a hyper look weak, and also to say "Hey. Kentucky Kingdom. Don't you dare step on our market and take customers from us, or else.".

I am not at the park, and don't know how accurate this is, but Que-Times.com has Vortex currently listed at a 30 minute wait- I have personally never seen it past 25 (Haunt Saturday 2010), and even at that, the line was overflowing to Juke Box Diner. Ironically Diamondback is also listed at 30 minutes, but a check on the webcams shows that one may be about right. Beast is also listed at 30 ATM, but Mystic Timbers is 70 minutes, Flight of Fear is a hour, and Firehawk is TWO Hours. BLSC is 40 minutes, and White Water Canyon is a hour- sounds like a lot of people are going for water rides (also given the line seen above for Congo) so I would guess that the lines in the waterpark must be insane. Yeah it sounds like the park is pretty packed for a lot of rides. If you are in the park, I dunno how accurate these are, but there are a few rides which ATM have respectable wait times: Banshee is listed at 15*, AE is also 15, Invertigo is 20, The Bat is only 10 minutes, and The Racer is only 5. If any of those are anywhere near accurate, those rides could offer some relief from the huge waits the other ones have. *=EDIT: Scratch that, just checked the Banshee cam, and from what I can see there is at least a 30 minute wait. Que-times may not have updated yet or something for that one.

OK, here is mine (current): 1. The Beast 2. Diamondback 3. Mystic Timbers 4. Banshee 5. Flight of Fear 6. Vortex 7. The Bat 8. The Racer 9. Adventure Express 10. Backlot Stunt Coaster Also, since everyone did Top 10's, for fun I went and looked through each post and gave each coaster points based on where they were all ranked. A 10th place ranking gave the coaster 1 point, a 1st place gives 10 points, and being unranked or below Top 10 gives no points. Here are the results, based on the 8 posts so far: 1. Diamondback= 74pts 2. Mystic Timbers= 66pts 3. The Beast= 61pts 4. Banshee= 56pts 5. Flight of Fear= 45pts 6. The Bat= 33pts 7. Vortex= 24pts 8. Adventure Express= 20pts 9. The Racer= 19pts 10. Invertigo= 16pts* 11. Firehawk= 16pts* 12. Backlot Stunt Coaster= 8pts 13. Flying Ace Aerial Chase= 1pts NA. Woodstock Express= 0pts (Did Not Appear in Anyone's Top 10) NA. Great Pumpkin Coaster= 0pts (Same as Woodstock) *=Tiebreaker used was highest ranking. OP ranked Invertigo 2nd, no one rated Firehawk better than 6th, therefore I gave Invertigo 10th place.

Probably pretty busy, though as I am not actually in the park I can only use stuff like que-times listed above which isn't always 100% accurate. I was at Cedar Point last weekend and it got pretty packed, though we did have Fast Lane Plus on Sunday and on Monday, the park was pretty dead (Raptor had a 5-minute wait at 2pm which is a pretty good sign the park is "dead" in terms of crowds). Though even then, Steel Vengenace (which was still at 2 trains), Maverick, and Valravn were all 45 minutes plus.