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BeastForever

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BeastForever last won the day on April 28

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About BeastForever

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    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmYL_bExOqwqJ0L04GRcu6Q

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    Intamin
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    Werner Stengel

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  1. Just as a friendly reminder: Please refrain from quoting an excessive amount of text or unnecessary photos : ) And unlike the last time Cedar Fair instituted techno music (onto a certain "themed" attraction of long ago), this time it will actually be even remotely fitting!
  2. But while were on the topic of groundbreaking feats, to be fair to be Intamin, the only other company to make launched coasters 80+ mph is S&S. Last I checked, they are no stranger to issues/failed rides either... For all the talk of Volcano being a so-called long term 'failure', if we're talking KD history, Hypersonic actually would be far and away their most flawed ride. (and if we're talking Paramount's four most ambitious projects in SOB, TR:TR, Volcano, and Hypersonic - Volcano outlived them all) On the topic of TTD, and KK, it is true that these far and away are some of the most, if not most expensive coasters to operate ever built. But like I said, they're the only ones willing push the limits that far to begin with. Of course TTD is going to be significantly less reliable and cost way more to operate than.....Rougarou, GateKeeper, Corkscrew or basically any other coaster with a simple chain lift.
  3. The year of Banshee coincided with the re-opening of KK, who at that time I would imagine made it a priority to siphon off what would have been KI-goers. Granted, how much of that can be attributed to Banshee's "disappointing" return I do not know, but that's certainly a factor to consider. But there was a ~3% increase the year following. How many of those were being drawn by the then-new Woodstock Gliders/Snoopy's Space Buggies? And how many of those were coming to ride Banshee for the first time? Again, I have no way of knowing the answer to those questions either, but I would imagine its a mix of the two to a varying proportion. That, and I think Cedar Fair still sees that a park as highly-attended as KI could benefit from some more people-eaters, which a B&M giga will most certainly be. Unfortunately, most of Paramount's installations did little to increase the overall capacity of park (whether it being low-capacity like FOF or Face/Off, or don't exist anymore like SOB and TR:TR). This certainly wasn't helped when the first ride received from CF is a recycled Vekoma flyer which even lost its dispatch-time decreasing recline on lift (three train) feature. We've come along way since then however. With four three-train coasters and a 64 -passenger flat in WS added, the capacity of the park has increased dramatically, which is another goal to invest in new rides/coasters. I've said this before, and I will say this again. If DB, Banshee, and Mystic Timbers truly did not accomplish what Cedar Fair was expecting/hoping, then there would be no giga, no B&M, maybe no coaster at all coming for 2020. Therefore, they must have worked out well enough. EDIT: And as malem points out, the TEA are not necessarily the most reliable numbers (they're the only attendance numbers though)
  4. Correct. But the filing of "Centurion" as a trademark in 2013, and ensuing Roman-styled teasers that popped up at Carowinds in the summer of 2014, wasn't necessarily a means to throw people off. An issue arose where the Centurion trademark had to be abandoned, leaving them to go with 'Fury' and ultimately 'Fury 325' instead. And for the record, Centurion will not be the name of any Cedar Fair ride or attraction in the forseeable future, as according to Trademarkia, it is marked 'DEAD' on their page and has been for quite some time. (https://www.trademarkia.com/company-cedar-fair-lp-222594-page-2-2).
  5. ^No. Not technically. Its still offered in their catalog (https://www.bolliger-mabillard.com/), and a brand new one opened as recently as 2013 in India. Its just that no park since then has asked for one, or the price was not right... This would also be true of stand-ups. They'd still make one if asked, but hasn't been for 20 years nows (and for good reason).
  6. Correct. Both investments: - were ambitious, groundbreaking, only-of-its kind - cost $20 million+. - significantly and rapidly deteriorated over time - underwent major alterations midway throughout their lifespans, at an attempt to salvage what was left (and at the expense of capacity) - operated in parts of just ten seasons - ended up being tremendous wastes of money that would have been much better allocated elsewhere. - and left behind painfuul reminders of what once was, and what could have been, in the form of permanent haunt mazes... ---------------- We know. Its incredibly disappointing, and really just sad to think about... Now back to the topic... 2020
  7. If this coaster does not live up to Fury simply because there wasn't as much money allotted to this project as was for Fury (and not as much money because of not as much growth potential), then that would make sense... But no, I do not believe there is some convoluted excitement limit/control scheme at play, strategically making sure certain rides aren't "too good" so as to not 'overshadow' rides at other parks. The truth is, a ride built at KI, of any scale, does not make Fury, Steel Vengeance, Millennium Force, or any other ride at any park smaller, slower, shorter, or less world-class. If Cedar Point's reputation as 'the go-to place for coasters' truly was of concern, then I don't think they would be building a giga or any coaster at all. Heck, would they have even built DB, Banshee, Mystic Timbers, or invest in this park in the first place? There is some overlap in the markets, but I think its safe to say at this point that CP and KI are far away enough so they don't directly compete with each other. ----------- My thoughts exactly. Suppose that in spite of this coaster so-called subpar stats, through one way or another it ends up being widely regarded the best giga any way, which I would agree is still a possibility (ie. not as long as Fury or MF, but better elements; or a better balance of intensity of comfort as opposed to I305). It wins #1 in GTA steel list jumping all of Fury, MF, and SV... So would this cause Cedar Fair execs into some sort of 'panic' - something along the lines of?: "WHAT?!?! That wasn't part of the plan! This was supposed to be just an "ok" ride, not 'amazing' or 'world-class'! This calls for drastic measures. We need to install hard trims ASAP on each drop, and mandate 5 whole minutes between dispatches to ENSURE that those Kings Islanders aren't having too much fun!"
  8. No. Unless you consider Griffon to be a hyper in spite of inverting elements. Ironically however, its much taller than the traditional hyper Apollo's Chariot, which is a hyper classification because of its 200ft + drop. That having said, B&M 'gigas' are still under their hyper model, as well as Goliath at La Ronde etc..
  9. The way I see it, anniversaries have virtually no true bearing on when major investments are made.This is why for the past year or I've been bemused at all CP fans that thought they were getting another major coaster for 2020 simply because it would be the 150th.... Historically, there has been no real link between major investments and anniversaries. Now, do they happen to coincide every once in a while because that just so happened to be the right year to add a new coaster (I305 - KD's 35th)? Of course. But Cedar Point for example, is not going to rush into a $20 million+ ride exclusively so that it its on their 150th. Why? Because suppose that instead of 1870, the park actually opened in 1865? 1878? 1912? 1951? KI instead opens in 1967, 1974, 1980, 1999 etc...... This would not change whats smart from an investment standpoint.
  10. ^^Correct. Its not just the timeline. But how would something record-breaking at KI 7-8 hours north diminish Carowinds' title as the "thrill capital of the south?"
  11. This just does not make much sense to me. Carowinds is 7-8 hours away and situated in an almost entirely different market. How much overlap could there possibly be? How far away do parks have to be to avoid these so-called "proximity" issues? A record-breaking B&M giga would perhaps carry as much notoriety as a record-breaking RMC in Steel Vengeance, but they would offer entirely different experiences... The difference between Intimidator and DB in height and length is negligible. Honestly, I find it a bit laughable to use that as an example of them "going bigger". Intimidator is 2 ft taller and only 34 ft longer. Do you consider that as "one-upping"? At the same time, DB has a 4 ft bigger drop, with a top speed of 80 mph, whereas Intimidator tops out at 75 mph. So if anything, it could be argued DB has the edge overall. Not to mention it consistently outranks Intimidator in a number of different polls/rating systems (and NOT just the Golden Tickets) : 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 So a giga just wasn't in the cards that year? After all, Carowinds already had a full-circuit, full-scale invert in Afterburn. KI was checking off a box that virtually every other major thrill park in the world had in some form. And KI was coming off a $24 million coaster in 2014. So a relatively inexpensive GCI obviously would have made more sense. CP was coming off a dive coaster from 2016, which while we don't know the exact cost, are generally are among the most inexpensive B&M models. (Griffon was $15.6 million, Sheikra $13.5 million). I'm not denying that CP warrants more investment than KI, but I think the instances you're pointing out are largely just products of the rotation/timeline. ---- KI, as we know right now is getting what is probably $25-30 million coaster for 2020. Meanwhile, all Cedar Point is likely to get in 2020 is some retro stuff/odes to the past. Nothing extravagant. But the answer to as to why that is is simple: The timeline...
  12. ^^Yes. But that and Maverick would be the only two coasters in the world with 'LSM lift hills'. A giga with a launch lift hill I think would be highly unlikely.
  13. I understand the point you're trying to make, but I don't think thats a great comparison, as TTD is an entirely different ride, and by virtue of being a one-trick pony, isn't bound to be many people's favorite in the park anyway. Same goes for Kingda Ka and Escape From Krypton. As @Ben43065 points out, more concerned with the length.
  14. See I'm not really getting this logic. Like I've said before, if the design of this coaster was the result of budgetary constraints (which I'm thinking is probably the culprit), then so be it. But I don't understand why you would want to make sure a coaster isn't "too good" so it doesn't outdo a coaster found at a sister park (one that is 7-8 hours away, and in entirely different regional markets). If you're making a major investment at any park, why would you not want the result of said investment to be as noteworthy as possible with the amount of money that is allotted? As for KI's proximity to CP, a Fury-esque B&M giga would not take away from the uniquenss of a record-breaking RMC (Steel Vengenance).
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