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Great thread. Love KI's old videos and Shaggy's comments. Seems they haven't released any new ones in a little while. Most likely because they are pretty busy. I would hope to see Top Gun or The Beastie POVs as well. I'm sure it's been some work to get these though, since in 1995 they probably weren't recorded onto digital media. I also wish they had sound, but again most of it would probably be just the loud wind noise. King Cobra was definitely a great addition to the KI line up of coasters. I miss watching the dispatch operator working from the control booth stationed above the track in front of you. I'm sure it was probably a pain to do things up there, but you don't see station design like that anymore. KC had so much floater air. I recall not touching the floor on just about every hill. A stand-up that ends with some trick track and a triple down! Reminds me how bored I am of how all the B&M loopers that end with some curves and flatspins.

Love the Reagan pic, but you got the quote wrong. It should be "tear down this coaster" not "tear this coaster down". I know, it makes a big difference right? Hehe.

"The Beast will be suspending operations tonight at 10:45 to accommodate tonight's fireworks."

Huss Top Spins are designed to e-stop in way that automatically turns the ride carriage upright. So, yes it is not impossible for it to be stuck upside down, but it is highly, highly unlikely that it would happen. Huss Giants are a little more complex than your normal fair ride. As for riding it, after my last ride and the "terrifying" plunge towards the concrete floor, or the "horrifying" stare at the metal ceiling, I think I'll be passing on it from now on. I think if I hooked up a swing in my garage I could produce a very similar experience.

Doesn't seem to jive with the "Run For The Hills" sign.

Yeah, but it's always going pretty darn fast when it hits the 2 turns before Lift 2. I guess I don't understand why people get mad about trims so much. Very rarely are they added to do anything more than protect the rider from extreme forces. The Beast for one, would be quite painful without any trims.

I know a few more of the details on this, so I thought I would add to it. I don't remember the year dates exactly though. Actually, it was called FreeWay. The name was intended to be a direct reference to the fact that at most other parks you had to pay extra to get to the front of the line faster. I don't think Cedar Fair has ever thought very highly of that idea. Thus, I wouldn't speculate that they will be adding something like Fast Passes anytime soon. Not true. I believe the first year was 2002 when they had it for Wicked Twister and Millennium Force. It ran for at least 2 more years in which they added Raptor, Mantis, Magnum, and TTD. I can't remember any others, but there may have been 1 or 2 others. Of course, you could only get 2 stamps a day because you only had 2 hands, but you could choose which 2 you tried to get. They started stamping at 11:00am for most of the rides. I think they started later for Magnum and maybe one other because their lines were typically short until later in the day. They did significant work to the Magnum and Raptor queues in order to make an entrance nearer to the station as the merge point. Lines to get stamps were pretty long and the stamps ran out fast. Getting 2 stamps for MF and TTD was really hard because you couldn't be in 2 places at once and they ran out so fast. Of course, TTD never really operated anyway. I think they quit doing stamps for it altogether. I believe they always had the VIP program, but they began advertising to the GP just a few years ago. Still, there may be some connection in terms of marketing. As far as why it failed, I'm not really sure, so your ideas are as good as any. I always wondered if it caused more confusion among guests than good. But really I would guess it was having to pay an employee to staff the merge point for each ride....

I wasn't a passholder last year, but I do remember them having early morning ERT in the past. However, without any resort guests, attendance was probably not enough to bring it back. I would argue that will change dramatically from this year to next.

This further illustrates that CF doesn't know what they are doing with regards to season passes at KI. I understand that KI does not have resorts like CP, and that it is unlikely there will be an everday morning ERT, but even when they do provide a benefit...it's only for a limited number...and on rides which traditionally do not have the longest waits. No Beast, Son of Beast, or Firehawk? I'm only one person, and I don't expect that every 'perk' will cater and benefit me. I just wonder how good of a benefit this is at all. Who thinks this list is going to attract a lot of season pass holders to visit more on Saturdays? Not me. This also just makes me pessimistic about the new ride next year. Will they do a better job of giving pass holders a benefit which DRAWS them into the park more often than they normally would visit?

Went to the park around 3:15. It was nice weather and pretty busy. Avatar and The Crypt were listed as closed on the screen outside the entrance. I'd say waits for the major rides were around 1 hour during the peak time of day (before 6pm). There were no wait time signs at any ride entrance. What's up with that? We rode Racer, Adventure Express, the Carousel, Eiffel Tower, Beast, and Scooby Doo twice with no wait after 7pm. Avatar was running around 7:30pm. Hopes for the future ----------------------- Remove the queue TVs. You can't see them. Half of them don't work or are discolored. Remove the queue rails in the center of The Racer queue. Now that there is no reason to split the lines, open up the station, move the front seat queues out onto the ramp area. Questions ----------- No ride wait signs? Why is Firehawk's paint looking so chippy less than a year after it opened? Are there no carousel's in Ohio that use the original sound unit? I thought KI's used it, but apparently not. I know the ones at CP and the Columbus Zoo also use piped in music. Overall, it was a good first visit.

I was looking at the park operation calendar and noticed how long a time there is between KI opening day (April 20th) and the first Monday they are open (May 26rd). I also noticed that KI is not open the final week of August either. Do you think this is due to not being able to have enough staffing? In particular, would this be due to having college students who are on quarters rather than on semesters? I tend to try to go to the park during the non-peak times, but that is difficult when there are less weekdays and no September dates of operation. I guess June isn't too bad in general. If you go to the park often (5+ trips a year) what is your strategy for avoiding 2 hour waits? When do you go?

I wouldn't say my post is far off base. It certainly is based on speculation and my own opinion, but I'm not forming it without evidence. I'm just using basic logic to chain together events which seem to indicate that the real truth is not being told. Here's the best quote I could dig up. Now, obviously I can't prove an unknown source to be trustworthy, but it makes sense. Even Mr. Helbig mentioned that one side was turned around shortly after The Bat was having serious problems. Do you really think PTC would give their approval to do such a thing so quickly? Obviously we don't know for sure, but it's a viable theory. I exaggerated a little here. I agree that it is not the only thing. My issue is that the so-called "primary reason" this is being done is for nostalgia. I would not be concerned if he had said they were doing it to conform with policies in other Cedar Fair parks AND to add nostalgia. If it was, why wait so long to announce it? Why not announce this change along with the other factors which will help re-create atmosphere? At ACE Winter SOAR, Mr Helbig said that a decision had not yet been made about the ride. To me, this indicates that discussions were still taking place within KI and with CF corporate about what should be done. Why would there be so much discussion if they were simply doing it to return to 70's atmosphere? No, I was speaking with regards to the future. Here's what I would hypothesize: - Cedar Fair has placed a renewed emphasis on safety in recent years, from seatbelts on almost every coaster, to ride operation policies. - All backwards running Racer coasters were not operating according to how they were initially designed. This means possible safety issues. More importantly, it means PTC is not liable in the event of any accident/malfunction because the ride is not running according to their full instruction. - Cedar Fair decides to ensure that this issue is resolved and begins talking to the parks to enforce the new corporate policy. - The parks must deal with it as best they can. For KI, by integrating this as part of creating nostalgic atmosphere. Again, this is only what I think to be true, but I would venture there are many folks out there who agree or have similar theories. Changes like this cost money after all. I think it will be interesting to see if they only run 1 side during slow times. Then they'll be saving money as well! Does that not sound like CF corporate? EDIT: I found another quote from a source I would consider credible.

So basically, Mr. Helbig claims they are turning recaR back to forwards for nostalgic reasons. Let me be the first to say...what a crock! Uh huh, sure. I'm very certain that the park thought it "strategic" to try to recreate nostalgia from the 70's. I'm sure that will cause people to come to the park in droves, or that it will make everyone have a better experience. Please! He doesn't even mention what has been reported other places, which is that this is being done to be in agreement with changes at other Cedar Fair parks. At least that isn't a flat out lie! I understand that you want to say things which are marketable for the park, and saying that they are doing it to cover their arse in case of any "incident" with the trains is not very marketable. But does that mean you should just lie about it? There is no integrity in that. What's so wrong with saying that it is the manufacturer's recommendation that both sides run forwards to ensure the safety of all riders? It can't be worse than the MF seatbelf fiasco at CP, when they shortened all the belt lengths which caused many folks who had been able to ride for years to be turned away. It's too bad because I really seemed to like Mr. Helbig. I don't believe what he said about The Beast being the best coaster in the world either. What's his favorite food? Cinnabon?

Nonsense. They will renew the license. Otherwise they would have to completely re-theme a gigantic section of the park. The Nick license is worth something. The licenses for Italian Job, Top Gun, etc. were not.

Bounce. New article from the other day. http://www.middletownjournal.com/hp/conten...1708kisign.html Ride name changes are definitely happening. From the article I would venture that Face/Off is still in the decision making process as I'll be shocked if they name something differently otherwise. Thoughts?

I'm intrigued by this thread. How did this site land a deal with Cox Publishing? I assume they must make decent money from the ads? As a reader of several of the above mentioned coaster sites, I think it's great that the ads are not overly annoying. Any plans to do a new forum skin now that the site is on a dedicated server?

I'd say it's only a matter of time until Pepsi rules. How long though is anybody's guess.

Don't forget that in the last years Paramount owned the park, they basically tried to break even each season. CBS did not have a great interest in the parks. Breaking even every year is no way to run a business. I'm sure CF would keep everyone happy all the time if they could, but being a business and making money comes first. Sure there is a line you have to draw at some point, but most of the changes have just been growing pains. As far as respect goes. It can take a while to build a group of good leaders anywhere. Some of that is up to CF, but some it is up to whoever decides to work there. If more good leader work there, the better the overall respect and customer service will be.

I've heard they don't have pockets. So basically, it's a tarp with a logo on it.

To be that tall, the foundation would need to be considerably deeper than it probably is. I do think that within the next 5-10 years we will see drop rides rising in height.

Could the accident have been avoided? Probably. Did PKI set themselves up for a situation like the one in which the accident occurred? Absolutely. I still don't get how the planning execs didn't see all of the red flags with this project. Honestly, when most major wooden coaster companies tell you you're crazy when you tell them you want a 200ft tall woodie with a loop, shouldn't that change your mind? Shouldn't you reconsider the ramifications of what you're planning?

I heard it was a broken ceiling fan. They need a crane to reach it (duh). Wha ha ha, this is one of the funniest redundant rumor threads ever!

KI probably has some of the worst PTC trains in the entire chain. Mainly, the lapbars are terrible. They don't rachet like they should. Don't be so emotionally nostalgic. If they did happen to put new trains on either Racer or Beast someday, it might turn out to be more fun than it is now and improve load times. If that was the case, I doubt any of us would be complaining for long.

My guess would be that it became a final decision sometime after the 2Q results came in. That would mean shortly after July ended. I'm sure they had talked about this decision before, maybe even for a few years. It would seem getting rid of the 2 major coasters after last year was a last "hurrah" of sorts. After July, I think they saw that doing just that did not balance out the park so that it was profitable. Also remember that they still did renovations this year. They painted rides. They renovated the Jukebox Cafe. They still had some hope for survival when the season began.

Don't we have enough threads about Tomb Raider? Oh wait, you meant the Halloween Haunt torture chamber.