GREAT AMERICA (CA): What now?

[CoastersRZ]

I still find it odd that they are going ahead with the public vote on this when they haven`t even worked out the deal with Cedar Fair yet, considering Cedar Fair holds the lease to the land in question.

[The Interpreter]

If all else fails, the City can and will condemn the necessary interests. The only issue then would be the amount of compensation...contesting the take in such matters almost never succeeds...

[Browntggrr]

I really question the validity of this CF quote made by the pro- stadium group:

Meanwhile, Santa Clarans for Economic Progress, the campaign backing the stadium project, does not believe Great America's position will have much impact on local voters. Lisa Gillmor, spokeswoman for the campaign, said the park's owners already have indicated they want to "sell their business and get out."

Especially given this quote, by CF, on October 10th, 2009:

Cedar Fair initially supported the idea, welcoming the team on its electric sign on Highway 101, but later opposed the project before shifting once again, declaring itself neutral. A Cedar Fair spokeswoman told the Mercury News about a month ago that the company "absolutely" has no intention of selling the park.

Now CF did say they would entertain a buy-out option, which is a part of the negotiation, but listening does not mean they want out. It simply means that CF has given the 49ers & Santa Clara something to consider as opposed to having no negotiations at all.

Many negotiations have both sides asking for their "cake and eat it too" and end up meeting somewhere in the middle.

I have a difficult time believing that losing the revenue GA generates for Santa Clara is worth the money going to be spent on the new stadium, and renovations to the area the stadium is going to require.

I also cannot understand why the 49ers would want to move almost 40 miles away from where they are currently located, unless Santa Clara has given them a sweetheart deal on the land lease. If that is true, and GA is forced out, that would mean less money generated with the new stadium vs. the + $5 million GA pays Santa Clara.

[Browntggrr]

Dueling economic portraits of 49ers stadium deal

http://www.mercuryne...?nclick_check=1

Depending on the accuracy of this quote, it will hit home for many of you:

And residents in most other cities saw tax increases, including Hamilton County, Ohio, which raised sales taxes for the Cincinnati Bengals' new stadium and now finds itself awash in debt because it also is responsible for operating costs that have far outstripped revenues. Oakland and Alameda County also are in major debt from the deal that lured the Raiders back from Los Angeles.

I really question this:

The 49ers project hundreds of millions of dollars in annual benefits to local governments, businesses and employees from luring NFL games and other events, including a Super Bowl, to the region.

The NFL has strict rules on the host stadium & city when it comes down to awarding Super Bowl sites. Capacity, hotel availability & weather all play large factors in that determination. The new stadium does seem just large enough, I am going to *assume* there are enough hotel rooms located within (I believe) 50 miles of the event site, but the weather could be the tipping point.

Santa Clara, CA has an average hi/ low temperature in February of 62/ 45 (and don't forget the SB is in early February), and February is the 2nd worst month of precipitation (January is 1st). Those averages are not exactly a draw for most people.

The NFL is contemplating having the SB at the new Meadowlands in NJ. The biggest drawback- the weather. The capacity is over 80,000, and New York city obviously has enough hotel rooms, NY is home to the NFL HQ, but the weather is the kicker.

The article, curiously, does not bring up the lease agreement between SC & CF.

I suggest reading the comments left by readers at the bottom link of the article. Quite intresting!

[The Interpreter]

GREAT AMERICA SUES OVER STADIUM DEAL:

The corporate owners of Great America theme park today sued the city of Santa Clara and the San Francisco 49ers, saying the environmental impact report on the planned 49ers stadium project is inadequate and "pays mere lip service" to California environmental regulations.

In a lawsuit filed in Santa Clara County Superior Court, Cedar Fair Entertainment maintains the environmental review process failed to solve a host of potential problems related to the stadium, which would be built on a parking lot adjacent to Great America. The lawsuit alleges that the report violated California environmental laws "in a rush to woo the 49ers to Santa Clara."

The lawsuit revives some of the ongoing tension between Great America's owners and the team and city, dating back to last summer when Cedar Fair sent a series of letters to city officials expressing concern about a failure to address the company's worries about how an NFL stadium would impact park business.

In fact, the lawsuit may be another tactic to jump start negotiations with city and 49ers officials....

http://www.mercuryne...ews/ci_14869568

[KIfan1980]

I really question this:

The 49ers project hundreds of millions of dollars in annual benefits to local governments, businesses and employees from luring NFL games and other events, including a Super Bowl, to the region.

The NFL has strict rules on the host stadium & city when it comes down to awarding Super Bowl sites. Capacity, hotel availability & weather all play large factors in that determination. The new stadium does seem just large enough, I am going to *assume* there are enough hotel rooms located within (I believe) 50 miles of the event site, but the weather could be the tipping point.

Santa Clara, CA has an average hi/ low temperature in February of 62/ 45 (and don't forget the SB is in early February), and February is the 2nd worst month of precipitation (January is 1st). Those averages are not exactly a draw for most people.

The NFL is contemplating having the SB at the new Meadowlands in NJ. The biggest drawback- the weather. The capacity is over 80,000, and New York city obviously has enough hotel rooms, NY is home to the NFL HQ, but the weather is the kicker.

The Bay Area has previously hosted a Super Bowl - SBXIX in 1985.

I'd be MUCH less concerned about the weather in Santa Clara than I would be New York.

[The Interpreter]

...But like a suit that Cedar Fair filed against the city in December alleging officials violated state environmental law by approving a term sheet - a tentative agreement - before certifying a report on the stadium's environmental impacts, Cedar Fair appears to have sued to protect its legal rights with a court deadline looming.

In both instances, the lawsuits were followed up by messages from Cedar Fair attorney Geoffrey Etnire to city officials expressing a willingness to continue talks.

"We believe that these challenges can be addressed," Etnire wrote to City Manager Jennifer Sparacino and others Monday, "but only through serious, immediate and sustained negotiations between the City, the 49ers, and Cedar Fair."

http://www.sfgate.co....DTL&type=49ers

[westcoaster]

I've been there My first thing is still questioning why the 49er's are moving so far away . But then you do have oakland right across from them????

But The Great America park is great, for the area, and seems Santa clara would want to keep it.

This will get interesting, be careful what they get look at Ky's trouble right now, no park and all you read is Louisville needs this for the visitors too!!!!

And previous comments i don't think the NFL will let a superbowl happen in a bad weather area? New York it could snow?????

[Browntggrr]

The Bay Area has previously hosted a Super Bowl - SBXIX in 1985.

I'd be MUCH less concerned about the weather in Santa Clara than I would be New York.

Exactly.

The NFL is more apt to go back to a previous venue, unless things do not go as planned, or, it is too difficult (i.e. Minnesota, Jacksonville etc.)

[KIfan1980]

I'm confused by the "exactly" comment.

You seemed surprised that they thought a Super Bowl might come to the SF Bay Area. I was pointing out that there had already been one.

[Browntggrr]

What is there to be confused about, and, where did you get the idea that there was some sort of surprise?

The NFL tried it once in the bay area, it was not a boasting success, and haven't been back there since.

Now other venues like Superdome in New Orleans, both the old & new stadiums in Tampa, and both the old & "new' stadiums in Miami have had multiple Super Bowls.

Here is an intresting article on SB XIX: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1946&dat=19850112&id=FEUwAAAAIBAJ&sjid=pKUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5531,447317

[CoastersRZ]

More on the latest goings on at Great America with regard to the 49ers Stadium

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_14947034?nclick_check=1

Cedar Fair has sued, and wants their lease rent payments altered to compensate for potential revenue impact caused by having to close the park for NFL games.

This quote still has be a little confused:

Asked whether the city would consider reducing Great America's rent, Mahan replied: "No. We have a contract. A contract is a contract."

Cedar Fair has a contract to use the land that they lease. Yet the city, with whom Cedar Fair has a contract with, wants to take part of their land away from them, but still wishes to collect the same rent fee every year? Seems to me like the fine folks running Santa Clara government don`t realize it is a two way street. Don`t take stuff, and expect to still receive the same rent payment.

I have a feeling that even if the vote passes this summer, that the final outcome of this entire thing will be ensnarled in lawsuits for many years to come. And personally, if Cedar Fair eventually does sell the park to the 49ers, I would expect them to eventually close the park down, as they are not in the amusement park business.

[Browntggrr]

^ I saw that quote and just chuckled.

Leave it to a mayor to say something rather questionable like that.

[The Interpreter]

One of Cedar Fair's Stadium Lawsuits Dismissed:

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_15026179

http://sanjose.bizjo...03/daily83.html

[The Interpreter]

Poll: Stadium Plan Approval Likely:

http://cbs5.com/business/49ers.stadium.poll.2.1714239.html

[CoastersRZ]

Has the city seriously addressed yet how they are going to compensate Cedar Fair for essentially taking away some of their land that they lease for this new stadium if the deal passes? It still seems to me like the city is so interested in getting this stadium, that they don`t care how bad they screw over Cedar Fair. It seems as if the city has seen the potential for new tourist dollars and forgotten that they already have a tourist destination that they are alienating by not addressing its concerns with regards to the new stadium.

[The Interpreter]

To my knowledge, the city has not. And during recent conference calls, it's clear that Great America may be the one park that Cedar Fair does close in the not too distant future...

[RingMaster]

To my knowledge, the city has not. And during recent conference calls, it's clear that Great America may be the one park that Cedar Fair does close in the not too distant future...

Dibs on Great America's Firefall as a replacement for our Crypt.

[TH13TEEN]

All of this is not right. Why can the city just take the land. They have a contract. California's Great America is a great park. It's pretty and when I went in June of 08' it was busy and they have a good little collection of coasters. Except Vortex... That hurt me in areas that I didn't know could hurt that bad. But point is... Contract.

[The Interpreter]

Contracts are broken nearly every day. And contracts sometimes have provisions in them the public doesn't know about. In any event, contracts can even be AGREED to be broken, in exchange for a sum certain...but what sum? I think that is where Cedar Fair and the City are...they know they are going to end up paying Cedar Fair, but how much? The City would like for it to be as little as possible, while Cedar Fair has the opposite goal, as well it should.

[Browntggrr]

49ers players pulling for positive vote on new stadium

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_15248870?nclick_check=1

I wonder if those same players are aware/ concerned about the future of GA if the vote passes.

[Diamondback96]

Probably not.

[The Interpreter]

Santa Clara Voters Okay Stadium:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/06/08/MNR41DPU38.DTL&tsp=1

49rs Still Miles From Santa Clara:

...It also would be naive to think that Cedar Fair won't be heard from at some point in the near future. The owner of Great America — the stadium would be built in a parking lot adjacent to the theme park — has issued multiple challenges to the stadium effort. The latest, a lawsuit claiming that environmental impact was not fully explored, was dismissed last month. The company has said it plans to appeal the ruling.

You could argue the 49ers had a clearer path to the new stadium end zone 13 years ago than they have now. And to repeat: That stadium never got off the drawing board.

So the news Tuesday was what didn't happen. The 49ers were not road-blocked. They weren't sent scrambling for a Plan B. San Francisco didn't get the opening it was hoping for.

And in a lesser-considered development, Oakland is still looking at a potential doomsday scenario in which all three of its teams leave town in the not-too-distant future — the Raiders (joining the 49ers in Santa Clara), the A's (to San Jose) and the Warriors (to a waterfront arena in San Francisco)....

http://www.mercuryne...mns/ci_15256898

[windshawne]

I never got to visit GA when I lived there-and ironically it was on the other side of 101 from where I lived. That whole area is so congested, this is just going to be a major cluster. I honestly don't understand what is wrong with the stadium they have.

[Oldiesmann]

I think this sums up why the 49ers want to move...

The 49ers began planning for the South Bay stadium in 2006, after they broke off negotiations with San Francisco for a replacement for aging Candlestick Park, which lacks the high-priced amenities that can add cash to the team's bottom line.

From the article that Terpy linked to above.

[KICoasterGirl]

To my knowledge, the city has not. And during recent conference calls, it's clear that Great America may be the one park that Cedar Fair does close in the not too distant future...

Dibs on Great America's Firefall as a replacement for our Crypt.

We could also get our Eagles back from Carowinds if Carowinds got GA's Eagles.

[Purplehaze]

Welcome to KIC KICOASTERGIRL

[The Interpreter]

49ers Stadium Plan Again Under Review

...On Wednesday, the city's planning commission is scheduled to consider zoning changes for the city's entertainment district that would be needed for the 49ers' proposed $937 million stadium adjacent to Great America theme park, as well as approval of the architectural design of the 68,500-seat facility....

...As the city and 49ers continue to haggle through the approval process, one court fight over the stadium deal remains active -- albeit in the background. Cedar Fair Entertainment, the corporate owners of Great America, sued this spring, maintaining the environmental impact review on the project failed to comply with state laws and take into the account the impact on the park and its business.The lawsuit remains in limbo in Santa Clara Superior Court, with no hearings scheduled at this point.

http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stories/ci_15995014?nclick_check=1

[Oldiesmann]

Assuming the zoning change is approved, and they find an architectural firm to handle it, can they go ahead with their plans despite CF's lawsuit? If so, CF may have lost the battle here...

[windshawne]

49ers Stadium Plan Again Under Review

...On Wednesday, the city's planning commission is scheduled to consider zoning changes for the city's entertainment district that would be needed for the 49ers' proposed $937 million stadium adjacent to Great America theme park, as well as approval of the architectural design of the 68,500-seat facility....

...As the city and 49ers continue to haggle through the approval process, one court fight over the stadium deal remains active -- albeit in the background. Cedar Fair Entertainment, the corporate owners of Great America, sued this spring, maintaining the environmental impact review on the project failed to comply with state laws and take into the account the impact on the park and its business.The lawsuit remains in limbo in Santa Clara Superior Court, with no hearings scheduled at this point.

http://www.mercuryne...?nclick_check=1

I am glad I no longer live in that area-doing 45 was going fast. If they build this stadium, I don't see traffic moving at all. It's bad when you have to speed up on the exit ramps.