SOB Strategies

[Captain Nemo]

A tunnel, while it is definantly a nice aesthetic feature to the ride, will not improve the smoothness of the ride and right now is not something the park probably wants to waste money on.

While I agree a tunnel does not improve the smoothness of the ride, I don’t think it is out of the question that it should have one. The Beast is well known for its tunnels, so it only makes sense to add some on SOB.

As to SOB strategies, I have always enjoyed the ride. I have always said the area of the ride most tend to find uncomfortable is the first double helix. While very unlikely of this ever happening, my strategy would be to simply get rid of that part of the ride and create a new layout that is less turbulent.

[Gordon Bombay]

I didn't say it would never happen, i just said from a financial standpoint it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[AintNutinElse2Do]

On the financial standpoint I will kindly have to disagree with you gordonbombay. While adding such features on an existing ride would seem counterproductive financially. I think if done correctly it could actually be a very wise financial move. Look at SFMM they are taking a ride that was first of it's kind and adding new trains and tunnels and marketing it as X2. I think SOB could very well be the same situation but it's all up to how it's marketed. Financially I think it would make sense for your record breaker to be well received to all. I'm just saying that if they consider SOB as a permament attraction then they should make it the best they can. I think comparatively the cost of adding a few tunnels would be minimal. I think this applies to other rides as well. Such as Beast while it doesn't need any more tunnels there are still many improvements that could be made to it. I for one would love to see them put some fog machines and special effect lighting on the ride but only during Halloween Haunt. I'm not saying pour millions of dollars into adding onto any existing ride I'm just saying emphasize your strong points and I feel SOB can be one of those strong points. I think we would all be happy if CF takes this off season and all of 2008 making improvements to the park. I think a fresh coat of paint all around and general updates to the park would go a long, long, long way. So basically I feel that if the park plans on keeping SOB indefinitely then spruce it up make it what it should be. If they plan on replacing it or just simply tear it down in the next 5-10 years then heck just keep it running.

[Gordon Bombay]

While I agree tunnels on SOB and little aesthetic things like the ideas you mentioned for Beast during HH (which I agree would be absolutely AWESOME!) they have kind of missed that window of oppourtunity with Son of Beast. X is being marketed as a whole new ride because it is having way more than just tunnels added to it. If they wanted to do something like that with SOB they should've done that when it first re-opened after the accident with the new trains.

[Browntggrr]

^ It now seems that CF took the "wait and see" approach when it came down to SoB re-opening.

There were still many questions in the air about the new trains and if would they be good enough to improve a ride that (at that point) was considered a total failure.

Going into 2008, SoB has improved slightly. Though IMO not enough to warrent even more money to be put into it. The ride is just not popular enough.

[BoddaH1994]

^ It now seems that CF took the "wait and see" approach when it came down to SoB re-opening.

There were still many questions in the air about the new trains and if would they be good enough to improve a ride that (at that point) was considered a total failure.

Going into 2008, SoB has improved slightly. Though IMO not enough to warrent even more money to be put into it. The ride is just not popular enough.

With all due respect, how do you know it's not popular enough? People on here have their own apprehensions about the ride, but KIC certainly does not represent the general public. If you look at some of the most ridden rides in the park, ie Adventure Express, they never have a line. It's all about capacity.

It's really common to think that rides like The Beast aren't nearly as popular as they were, while in fact they are. The reason why lines are shorter now is because Kings Island offers a lot more and allows crowds to disburse. There were some days when I'd go to the park during the peak season and the place looked a lot like it had Geauga Lake crowds. At that people, it's easy to forget that there are probably 20-30k people in Boomerang Bay.

Just remember -- in this industry, perception is reality... except here.

[Browntggrr]

With all due respect, how do you know it's not popular enough? People on here have their own apprehensions about the ride, but KIC certainly does not represent the general public. If you look at some of the most ridden rides in the park, ie Adventure Express, they never have a line. It's all about capacity.

Popularity has nothing to do with how long a line is.

Many of the online sites have various opinions on rides and parks. And most sites will have a love/ hate relationship with rides and parks as well (i.e. If you don't love CF, than you hate them, samething with MF vs. S;RoS at SFNE.) The point being, one site will promote a ride/ park while another site will denounce it. The opinions vary a great deal from site to site.

But there is no doubt that there is one ride that the majority out there loves to hate, and that would be SoB.

Sure there are going to be some that will promote SoB as the best ride out there, but thet are certainly the minority.

And when it comes down to the GP, they know even less. Only because CF did not promote the opening of SoB due to their own questions of how people were going to react. If CF would have promoted to the GP that SoB was new and improved, and they still did not like it, then it would have been a large piece of egg on the face of CF.

Which is probably why the park promoted SoB's opening at sites like KICentral and did not have a full page ad in the Cincy Enquirer, even those here who dislike SoB still have to see if the ride had improved since that was one of 2 main discussions in the offseason of 2006.

[Cory Butcher]

I think you are wrong there, I dont think we are dealing with a majority either...but rather a plurality between love/hate/neither.

Also I would say the amount of people that like SOB is actually much higher than you think. Like Ryan said things aren't always as they appear. For those of you that went to Barebones nights and think about how much it failed because it looked like noone was in the park, people were deffinately in the park, not a whole lot obviously, but yes, they did come, and it was quite succesful. And those people that came and had short lines and a very low price, the majority of them, are coming back!

[Gordon Bombay]

I think you are wrong there, I dont think we are dealing with a majority either...but rather a plurality between love/hate/neither.

Also I would say the amount of people that like SOB is actually much higher than you think. Like Ryan said things aren't always as they appear.

Well first off no one here can actually say they "know" the popularity of Son of Beast considering none of us here never really conducted full survey or marketing study regarding the thing nor do we have full access to the capacity figures of the ride. However, if CF felt it was worth the price spent removing the loop and purchasing the g trains for it and to do all of the structural reinforcement that the state ordered then it probably of enough value to the park that it was worth doing those things.

For those of you that went to Barebones nights and think about how much it failed because it looked like noone was in the park, people were deffinately in the park, not a whole lot obviously, but yes, they did come, and it was quite succesful.

Not saying bare bones nights were a flop or not successful, but how do you know it was such the success you claim it to be? You don't have access to those attendance figures of guests who came that night nor do you know the budget, profit, attendance, and operations goals Cedar Fair had set for that night nor if those goals were reached in order for it to be considered a success.

And those people that came and had short lines and a very low price, the majority of them, are coming back!

What crystal ball did you look in to know that the majority of guests who attended bare bones nights will be coming back next season? As you know, there were mixed reactions to how Halloween Haunt was executed this year and to the content it contained. For all we know there could possibly a silent majority who was displeased with the event and won't be returning next year causing a large attendance drop or there could be an overwhelming amount who loved the new changes this year and people could return in record numbers next year. Regardless, I don't think you have the proper information from a ride operators perspective to be able to predict the success of a previous event let alone next years event. Your criticized Brown for making judgement on SOB's popularity without all the "facts" yet you did the same thing about bare bones.

Kings Island hasn't released any exact attendance figures yet or its unknown if they will however the park has in the most recent years been promoted as having over 3 million guests in attendance. This year though at IAAPA in Orlando Kings Island received a brass ring award for having an excellent radio marketing campaign in the "class 3" bracket. A class 3 park is considered a park that receives between 1 - 2 million guests per year. If the past years of "3 million guests" are true and KI is in the proper class for this award then I'd wager to say attendance could be way down at the park and that I'd question the supposed ability of Halloween Haunt/Bare Bones to pull in "record" crowds in the way some people have been cheerleading it for.

Iaapa awards: http://www.iaapa.org/pressroom/pressreleas...08brassring.asp

Other discussion regarding park "classes": http://coastercrew.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=834

[AZ Kinda Guy]

While I agree tunnels on SOB and little aesthetic things like the ideas you mentioned for Beast during HH (which I agree would be absolutely AWESOME!) they have kind of missed that window of oppourtunity with Son of Beast. X is being marketed as a whole new ride because it is having way more than just tunnels added to it. If they wanted to do something like that with SOB they should've done that when it first re-opened after the accident with the new trains.

Would you want to bring attention to a ride that sent people to the hospital?

[The Interpreter]

And to all this I add only one thing.

There MUST be a reason Scarowinds will not be an upcharge attraction at Carowinds next year. Just an observation. . .

[Browntggrr]

I think you are wrong there, I dont think we are dealing with a majority either...but rather a plurality between love/hate/neither.

No I am not wrong.

Go to other online sites and take a good look at what others have to say about SoB.

As unfortunate as it is due to the amount of money has been spent on SoB, it is a very disliked ride.

By a large figure.

[JacksonPKI]

Would you want to bring attention to a ride that sent people to the hospital?

It put people in the hospital after an ACCIDENT, as in not supposed to happen.

Crystel Beach Cyclone, now that's a different story.

And to all of what people said in the last 30 or 40 posts,

Obviously Cedar Fair found Son of Beast to be popular enough IN 2006 to go through all the trouble and thousands of dollars to renovate the SOB to make it better.

BUT, would they do it again after seing it's popularity AFTER the renovations?

[The Interpreter]

The Crystal Beach Cyclone was not supposed to injure people. The nurse in the station was a marketing move in a very different time. And society as a whole was far less litigious back then. You will note that none of Harry Traver's coasters survives today. There is a reason. Lots of them, actually.

It was also a time when people paid by the ride. Nonpopular rides did not survive for long. Rides that people rode once and then said never again had particularly short life spans. That is not to say they weren't profitable. Many were at first, then disappeared. The Crystal Beach Cyclone's ride lasted only 40 seconds. For most, that was plenty long enough.

[JacksonPKI]

^ You took that serious? Oops, I guess thats my fault. I forgot to add a

[AZ Kinda Guy]

Would you want to bring attention to a ride that sent people to the hospital?

It put people in the hospital after an ACCIDENT, as in not supposed to happen.

But it did...