Adventure Express

[westcoaster]

yes why did they scrap skylab No reason really it was a great ride?? and the screamin deamon??? why did they get rid of that, look north at the Point they keep coasters for a long time!!!!!

Metal coasters in fact!!!

[The Interpreter]

^^ We posted almost at the same time. I think I answered your questions just as you were typing! See my post #30 in this thread....

[WooferBearATL]

a. I never got to ride The Bat. Each time I was at the park while it was there, it was not operating. Sigh! From what I have seen, it is my considered judgment that The Bat probably WAS a better ride than Top Gun, but Top Gun is very, very reliable! In perhaps an odd turn of events, I, unlike most locals up in New Jersey, got to ride Evolution many times while it was at SFGAd. And I got to ride each of the three US Deja Vus. Again, quite the accomplishment, given how often those things are/were down and not up.

b. Screamin' Demon was sold to Camden Park in Huntington, West Virginia...where it operated for many years. It would still be operating today, had that park taken care of it during the 'dark years' when that park was owned by Bev and John Roberts. Sigh.

c. Skylab, like many Huss Enterprise rides, was becoming a maintenance headache. Its near twin at Six Flags Great Adventure was also recently removed. Witches Wheel still operates at Cedar Point. I recommend it highly!

Thanks for recognizing my goofy attempts at humor! That truly is one of my favorite songs. It has the same serendipity and deep, dark humor to it that I find helps me get through life!

Bat was far superior to Top Gun. Not only because of the lay out but because of the location. Nothing like going through the trees where Vortex is.

The Demon, though simple was always a blast. You can't explain the feeling of going off that second drop backwards and through the loop.

Skylab makes me nauseous just to think of it to this day. Almost as Bad as Hallie's Comet.

[odettekitrigisele]

a. I never got to ride The Bat. Each time I was at the park while it was there, it was not operating. Sigh! From what I have seen, it is my considered judgment that The Bat probably WAS a better ride than Top Gun, but Top Gun is very, very reliable! In perhaps an odd turn of events, I, unlike most locals up in New Jersey, got to ride Evolution many times while it was at SFGAd. And I got to ride each of the three US Deja Vus. Again, quite the accomplishment, given how often those things are/were down and not up.

b. Screamin' Demon was sold to Camden Park in Huntington, West Virginia...where it operated for many years. It would still be operating today, had that park taken care of it during the 'dark years' when that park was owned by Bev and John Roberts. Sigh.

c. Skylab, like many Huss Enterprise rides, was becoming a maintenance headache. Its near twin at Six Flags Great Adventure was also recently removed. Witches Wheel still operates at Cedar Point. I recommend it highly!

Thanks for recognizing my goofy attempts at humor! That truly is one of my favorite songs. It has the same serendipity and deep, dark humor to it that I find helps me get through life!

Thanks Interpreter!

In my opinion The Bat was much better. I wish you had a chance to ride it. I guess I was a lucky little girl.

I loved the screamin demon and it makes me sad it wasn't taken care of, that really s#cks!

And I love MacArthur Park. It's on my ipod nano. I still have that album too.

Thanks again. Have a nice evening!

[CoastersRZ]

The Screamin Deamon was removed after the 1987 season, in order to make room for Amazon Falls (now known as Congo Falls). The park likely though that with The Vortex as the start new attraction at the park with six loops, it made the Demon less then a spectacular ride, and not as much of a draw for the general public.

[adventure2007]

Yeah lookin back at the Demon it is kinda funny, but it did set the trend for the new generation of steel coasters. I remember riding the Screamin Demon with my father as a kid. Those were the days.

[JacksonPKI]

Well, looking at the pictures it seemed like a fun ride. But, compareing it to The Vortex it's a whimp.

And I doubt Vortex will be removed, especialy for a new ride.

[KIBeast]

^Every coaster will be replaced, eventually.

Screamin' Demon was my first looper and first backwards ride. A lot of fun, but not fun walking up the tower. It is a shame about what the former owners of Camden Park did to the Thunderbolt Express. Fortunately, the new/old owners are back and Camden is better than it has been in decades.

The Bat was superior to Top Gun. The course was much more interesting.

[JacksonPKI]

Yea, but they actually Banked the track on TG.

[KIBeast]

But, that was not figured to be a problem in the design process or they would have banked them in the first place. Hindsight is 20/20.

[JacksonPKI]

Yea. On RCT3 and Thrillville, they don't bank the track on swinging coasters!

[KIBeast]

^ I noticed that as well. It's no wonder I could never build a suspended coaster without breaking people's necks on RCT.

[CoastersRZ]

The banking of the track was one of the major issues with The Bat. It was not, however, the only issue that led to the rides demise. One of the other things that led to lots of stress on the cars was the location of the brake fins. Contrary to all the suspended coasters built by Arrow after The Bat, the brakes and brake fins were located below the trains. As one can imagine, when the trains are swinging and the trains enter the brake runs, there can be a lot of stress radiating through those trains. Which is why on all subsequent suspended coaster after The Bat, the brake fins were mounted in between the wheel assemblies.

[flightoffear1996]

^ I think what you just said is common sense about the break fins on the trains below the track instead of above I wonder why arrow didnt think of that. And the track not being banked and the stress on the cars is realted cause if the track was banked there would be less swinging and less stress on the car.

[Browntggrr]

Yea, but they actually Banked the track on TG.

Yeah...

They also banked the track on all 9 suspended Arrow's after Bat as well, which includes TG. Ironically the last suspended Arrow built.

[Jasper]

Hey guys sorry its been a while my laptop crashed and i havent had any internet.

But on the topic of the banked suspended Swinging Coasters Big Bad Wolf down in BGE is a perfect example. For those of you who have ridden it whenever you go down the last drop down towards the Rhine River that is where banking is needed the most. And does anyone know why they added trim brakes to the drop. Was it becoming to strenious on the cars?

[Browntggrr]

From what I *heard* (so take it for what it is worth) those trims were added to slow down the trains going down towards the Rhine so that the speed of the trains would be less going into the final brake run.

Almost all the track, excluding the final brake run, after the drop towards the Rhine has banked and curved track. Arrow could not find a way to effectivly install brakes on those tranitions.

[JacksonPKI]

I've always found those kind of turn/drops to be trouble on sims.

[WooferBearATL]

The banking of the track was one of the major issues with The Bat. It was not, however, the only issue that led to the rides demise. One of the other things that led to lots of stress on the cars was the location of the brake fins. Contrary to all the suspended coasters built by Arrow after The Bat, the brakes and brake fins were located below the trains. As one can imagine, when the trains are swinging and the trains enter the brake runs, there can be a lot of stress radiating through those trains. Which is why on all subsequent suspended coaster after The Bat, the brake fins were mounted in between the wheel assemblies.

The Bat had quite a bit of banked track. In fact, the banking was probably some the issue.

[Gordon Bombay]

When it opened it had hardly any banked track, adding more banked track and a lot of redesigning of the track was one of the things done by Arrow/KI to try and get it working reliably, however the stress on the shock absorbers was still pretty exterme. The banking was not the issue, it was the lack of banking and the extreme amounts of stress on the shock absorbers.

[odettekitrigisele]

When it opened it had hardly any banked track, adding more banked track and a lot of redesigning of the track was one of the things done by Arrow/KI to try and get it working reliably, however the stress on the shock absorbers was still pretty exterme. The banking was not the issue, it was the lack of banking and the extreme amounts of stress on the shock absorbers.

So you are saying that it had more to do with the brakes having too much stress on them rather than the way in which the track was designed.

Considering that there were two left hills, I was informed that the motor would burn out before it reached the top. (The information came from a man who worked on The Bat)

I did not know about the shock absorbers or the lay out of the track. I thought it had to do with the motor.

It's a shame because over all it was a really interesting design. It would swing out SO far. It was a good ride, they just didn't have all of the kinks worked out yet. Too bad.

I didn't know Arrow did Top Gun, that is cool.

I wonder if there will ever be another hanging coaster........or if they will eventually become extinct. I hope not.

[Browntggrr]

The Bat's demise was due to many contributing factors, a lift hill motor not being one of them. (Just as an FYI, you do know that there were two motors. One for each lift hill.)

Which is too bad really, installing a larger motor is an easy fix. Yet re-designing banked track, re-designing brakes for the bottom of the trains, and finding shocks that could withstand the amount of stress that the ride exerted on the trains were too much for what Arrow had originally intended.

[KIBeast]

^ I think what you just said is common sense about the break fins on the trains below the track instead of above I wonder why arrow didnt think of that. And the track not being banked and the stress on the cars is realted cause if the track was banked there would be less swinging and less stress on the car.

Why didn't arrow think of that? Well, remember this. Ron Toomer was a lazy designer. It's obvious in the horrid transitions that most arrows have. Not to mention, he basically bent a coat hanger and said wow, I designed a loop.

[odettekitrigisele]

^ I think what you just said is common sense about the break fins on the trains below the track instead of above I wonder why arrow didnt think of that. And the track not being banked and the stress on the cars is realted cause if the track was banked there would be less swinging and less stress on the car.

Why didn't arrow think of that? Well, remember this. Ron Toomer was a lazy designer. It's obvious in the horrid transitions that most arrows have. Not to mention, he basically bent a coat hanger and said wow, I designed a loop.

Aaawwwww, that's sad. It sounds as though he didn't think too clearly.

SAD.

[AZ Kinda Guy]

^ I think what you just said is common sense about the break fins on the trains below the track instead of above I wonder why arrow didnt think of that. And the track not being banked and the stress on the cars is realted cause if the track was banked there would be less swinging and less stress on the car.

Why didn't arrow think of that? Well, remember this. Ron Toomer was a lazy designer. It's obvious in the horrid transitions that most arrows have. Not to mention, he basically bent a coat hanger and said wow, I designed a loop.

Lazy designer? Like you could do any better?... In reguards to the transistions, The newest multi-looper from Arrow is Tennessee Tornado and that opened up in 99! So if they are rough now, how well they are maintained has alot to do with it. And don't even get me started on the technological breakthroughs that have occured in the past 20 years in terms of train design, maintenance techniques, steel fabrication, and the overall coaster design process....Oh and if you honestly believe he designed customers rides from coat hangers then you are an idiot.

[Gordon Bombay]

^Tennesse Tornado at Dollywood is the only Mega Looper not designed by Ron Toomer.

^ I think what you just said is common sense about the break fins on the trains below the track instead of above I wonder why arrow didnt think of that. And the track not being banked and the stress on the cars is realted cause if the track was banked there would be less swinging and less stress on the car.

Why didn't arrow think of that? Well, remember this. Ron Toomer was a lazy designer. It's obvious in the horrid transitions that most arrows have. Not to mention, he basically bent a coat hanger and said wow, I designed a loop.

With all due respect KIBeast, but what made Ron Toomer a lazy designer? I don't really see how anyone on these boards could have done better. For the time the mega loopers were coming; they were technological break throughs, done by hand, without the aid of computers. Some Arrow's have rough transitions sure, but before there were computers ride makers like B&M and Intamin were building their early rollercoasters which were not always stellar to say the least. Toomer developed and perfected an early product that became instantly popular at amusement parks throughout the world and many of his coasters are still popular today. The whole coat hanger thing comes from a video where he is discussing with a group of engineers various new concepts Arrow want's to pursue and he folds the coat hanger to give a rough visual idea of what he's thinking. When it came down to actual drafting and design the man was a renowned, college educated engineer. He didn't actually use a coat hanger to design the rides.

[AZ Kinda Guy]

^Tennesse Tornado at Dollywood is the only Mega Looper not designed by Ron Toomer.

Ah, your right. Wasn't he retired by then?

[Gordon Bombay]

Yeah, I believe due to health problems. He is still alive today.

[AZ Kinda Guy]

If I'm not mistaken, something else worth noting is that TT was the first (and last) coaster that Arrow fabricated their own track in house. Which many believe to be the reason why it is so smooth.

[KIBeast]

^ I think what you just said is common sense about the break fins on the trains below the track instead of above I wonder why arrow didnt think of that. And the track not being banked and the stress on the cars is realted cause if the track was banked there would be less swinging and less stress on the car.

Why didn't arrow think of that? Well, remember this. Ron Toomer was a lazy designer. It's obvious in the horrid transitions that most arrows have. Not to mention, he basically bent a coat hanger and said wow, I designed a loop.

Lazy designer? Like you could do any better?... In reguards to the transistions, The newest multi-looper from Arrow is Tennessee Tornado and that opened up in 99! So if they are rough now, how well they are maintained has alot to do with it. And don't even get me started on the technological breakthroughs that have occured in the past 20 years in terms of train design, maintenance techniques, steel fabrication, and the overall coaster design process....Oh and if you honestly believe he designed customers rides from coat hangers then you are an idiot.

Please quote me where I said I could do better. Too bad the best Arrow looper had nothing to do with Toomer. Look, I rode Vortex in its' heyday and rode it last year. It's just as bumpy as ever and I would say that KI does a stellar job of maintaining that coaster. I did some reading about Toomer's desgins and it has been greatly debated before. Yes, many of his coasters still grace many amusement parks to this day. I just can't remember exactly where I read it and the writer made a lot of sense about many things that could have been done, even back before computers, that would have made his coasters a lot smoother.