SonofBeast07 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 easy fix, rename the ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel09 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Well if it's like shooting yourself in the hand and saying "Oww, it hurts!", then why should Kings Island be supplying the gun? Beast I wish you wouldnt have said that..... My young friend, I think we both are on the same side of the SOB discussion, but the gun metaphor is always a bad one sided argument. It is not KI (or anyone Else's) job to keep you from hurting yourself. They are not supplying the gun anymore than they are when they serve french fries or elephant ears in the park. People know deep fried foods can lead to heart issues, but its not the parks problem to monitor your intake. So sadly its not the parks job to keep you from injuring your self..... Now back to not using Metaphors....... SOB is not a gun but is still hurting (or did hurt) people in the past. It has gained a negative reputation, along with rising costs to keep fixing the ride..... whatever happens to SOB will be to the benefit of the park's bottom line..... lol meant the gun recoil. but it was still a poor analogy, i know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel09 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 easy fix, rename the ride LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 So sadly its not the parks job to keep you from injuring your self..... But is it their responsibility to do something about a ride that injures people on a regular basis? People aren't going to think "Oh, look at that wooden coaster. It'll probably hurt me, but I'll ride it anyway.", they think "That looks fun!" or "That looks scary!". Nobody goes on a rollercoaster expecting for it to hurt, except Ninja at SFOG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 So sadly its not the parks job to keep you from injuring your self..... But is it their responsibility to do something about a ride that injures people on a regular basis? People aren't going to think "Oh, look at that wooden coaster. It'll probably hurt me, but I'll ride it anyway.", they think "That looks fun!" or "That looks scary!". Nobody goes on a rollercoaster expecting for it to hurt, except Ninja at SFOG. Cedarpointer I was using that in the metaphor of a gun..... not a ride. Thats why I was saying using a gun metaphor would be a mistake when talking about a ride, because you are allowed to own a gun and if it hurts you its your own fault. SOB is not a gun.... Not trying to start an argument but I just don't like parts of what I say to be construed to shape an argument for or against SOB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 ^ They did a fine job of "re-engineering". Take look at what is just past the chain. If that doesn't take out some of the "go" I don't know what would. Cedar Fair engineering doing what they do. I have no idea what this means. As far as SOB, if everyone hates it, why did it always have a line? Most times, the line was longer than for the father, at least on days I was there. Over last summer (2008), the line was consistantly 30-40 minutes. It was never that long that I remember this year, but when I was there, it was never a walk-on. You can never determine a ride's popularity by how long the line is. There are too many variables that go into why a line is long. And even at that, comparing SoB's line to that of Beast is certainly comparing apples to oranges. SoB has 2 trains @ 24 ppl/ train. Beast has 3 trains @ 36 ppl/ train. By the way, SOB was my favorite ride at KI, because it was not trimmed to death every ten feet. It had the mid-course set to trim brake mode, but at least the first and second drop were not trimmed. Trim brakes are there for a reason. You may not like tham, or understand them, but just watch the CET video and observe what park employees said about Beast before the ride was slowed down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortex Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Trim brakes are there for a reason. You may not like tham, or understand them, but just watch the CET video and observe what park employees said about Beast before the ride was slowed down. Funny thing about that is The Beast gave those rides for a long time. When it used to rain we ran to The Beast to get those rides. I forget what year the ride got the new trims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSonofBeast Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 i think it was after 2003 when a train hit another train in the station at like a rediculously low speed (think like coasting into at around 1-2mph) during a light rain or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 ^^ Beast has always had trims. The new magnetic trims started in 2002 after the minor accident in 2001. Other numerous trim brake (beating dead horse) discussions: http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?...=magnetic+trims http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?...=magnetic+trims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyMan98 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Minor accident? And I don't understand - how come sometimes they use the trim brakes and sometimes they don't? In the morning, it goes a lot faster and in the afternoon they use the brakes. I don't really understand physics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Rider Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 ^ They did a fine job of "re-engineering". Take look at what is just past the chain. If that doesn't take out some of the "go" I don't know what would. Cedar Fair engineering doing what they do. I have no idea what this means. Think about it a little. I'm sure it will come to you. As far as SOB, if everyone hates it, why did it always have a line? Most times, the line was longer than for the father, at least on days I was there. Over last summer (2008), the line was consistantly 30-40 minutes. It was never that long that I remember this year, but when I was there, it was never a walk-on. You can never determine a ride's popularity by how long the line is. There are too many variables that go into why a line is long. And even at that, comparing SoB's line to that of Beast is certainly comparing apples to oranges. SoB has 2 trains @ 24 ppl/ train. Beast has 3 trains @ 36 ppl/ train. You most certainly can get an idea of a ride's popularity by the length of the line. If no one likes the ride, then no one will be in line. I'm sorry, but people don't just ride a ride because it is there. If they don't like it, they won't be in line. You are correct on the capacity differences between the two coasters. However, one thing you failed to remember, The Beast is 4:50 long, and SOB is 3:00. By the way, SOB was my favorite ride at KI, because it was not trimmed to death every ten feet. It had the mid-course set to trim brake mode, but at least the first and second drop were not trimmed. Trim brakes are there for a reason. You may not like tham, or understand them, but just watch the CET video and observe what park employees said about Beast before the ride was slowed down. I very well understand trim brakes; what they do, how they work, and what reason they are placed where they are. Cedar Fair has an obsession with them, and they use them for reasons that I do not believe in. I do not like them and make no effort to hide the fact. I am also not going to be drawn into an argument about them as that is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 well to be truthful lines are not very truthful about the popularity of a ride. So by your judgment when I go to the park The Beast almost has no line so that means no one likes The Beast..... until about 4 or 5 in the afternoon...... Plus why is it Adventure Express has a long line (sometimes 45 mins) and other days its a walk on...... Same with FOF.... Lines mean nothing about a ride..... people wont ride a ride they hate but they will ride a ride because its there..... Vortex has days where the line is 2 hours... others its a station wait...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 They did a fine job of "re-engineering". Take look at what is just past the chain. If that doesn't take out some of the "go" I don't know what would. Cedar Fair engineering doing what they do. Nope, no clue. How about some clarification and details. You most certainly can get an idea of a ride's popularity by the length of the line. If no one likes the ride, then no one will be in line. I'm sorry, but people don't just ride a ride because it is there. If they don't like it, they won't be in line. You are correct on the capacity differences between the two coasters. However, one thing you failed to remember, The Beast is 4:50 long, and SOB is 3:00. A rides' popularity cannot be determined by how long the line is. Variables such as: crew dispatches, guests being familiar with the entering/ exiting of the ride- which will have an effect on the MCBR, maintenance, and compliments vs. complaints factor popularity much more than line length. FYI- Beast is 7359' long with a duration of 4:10. SoB is 7032' long with a duration of 2:20. I very well understand trim brakes; what they do, how they work, and what reason they are placed where they are. Cedar Fair has an obsession with them, and they use them for reasons that I do not believe in. I do not like them and make no effort to hide the fact. I am also not going to be drawn into an argument about them as that is pointless. You drew yourself the arguement, and obviously you don't understand why trims are necessary, or you wouldn't be so against them. Perhaps once you realize that it costs the park money for maintenance, look past your individual feelings about trims, and understand that not everyone wants to have shaken adult syndrome you can have a constructive conversation on how rides actually work. Rides are there for the majority, not the minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Minor accident? And I don't understand - how come sometimes they use the trim brakes and sometimes they don't? In the morning, it goes a lot faster and in the afternoon they use the brakes. I don't really understand physics It's not physics. They are magnetic brakes, they are always on. ALWAYS. You may not feel them as much, but they're still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 The Beast is dead slow in the morning. I thought it was going to valley on RWW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSonofBeast Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 haha, it really is. i honestly dont even know why they open it early, as its so boring. i went one saturday, and i was the only one on the train and you could still feel the trim brakes grab hard... it made the ride so slow that when you crest the hill right before the second lift you almost stop... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel09 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 They did a fine job of "re-engineering". Take look at what is just past the chain. If that doesn't take out some of the "go" I don't know what would. Cedar Fair engineering doing what they do. Nope, no clue. How about some clarification and details. You most certainly can get an idea of a ride's popularity by the length of the line. If no one likes the ride, then no one will be in line. I'm sorry, but people don't just ride a ride because it is there. If they don't like it, they won't be in line. You are correct on the capacity differences between the two coasters. However, one thing you failed to remember, The Beast is 4:50 long, and SOB is 3:00. A rides' popularity cannot be determined by how long the line is. Variables such as: crew dispatches, guests being familiar with the entering/ exiting of the ride- which will have an effect on the MCBR, maintenance, and compliments vs. complaints factor popularity much more than line length. FYI- Beast is 7359' long with a duration of 4:10. SoB is 7032' long with a duration of 2:20. I very well understand trim brakes; what they do, how they work, and what reason they are placed where they are. Cedar Fair has an obsession with them, and they use them for reasons that I do not believe in. I do not like them and make no effort to hide the fact. I am also not going to be drawn into an argument about them as that is pointless. You drew yourself the arguement, and obviously you don't understand why trims are necessary, or you wouldn't be so against them. Perhaps once you realize that it costs the park money for maintenance, look past your individual feelings about trims, and understand that not everyone wants to have shaken adult syndrome you can have a constructive conversation on how rides actually work. Rides are there for the majority, not the minority. IMO I have nothing against them adding trim brakes. The people who add them to the ride have a much higher education and understanding of the physics and forces involved. G-forces, Afect on mechanical parts and tracks. The tolerance of riders. etc. plus anyone who pays attention can tell when they are needed. for example if you watch Vortex as it enters it's MCBR (yes im aware, that these are different but it still slows it down). now imagine if you removed those. think about how much speed the ride would gain. The corkscrews would put extreme torque on the cars. the same for Flight of Fears MCBR. would want it to go any faster after that point. think about how fast it already goes. or The Beast's long brake run before the second tunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSonofBeast Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 you have a point but your Flight of Fear argument is NOT valid. there are quite a few EXACT copies of that ride, and there is at least one with no MCBR even installed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 ^ Which FoF clone does not have a MCBR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coaster_junky Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 plus anyone who pays attention can tell when they are needed. for example if you watch Vortex as it enters it's MCBR (yes im aware, that these are different but it still slows it down). now imagine if you removed those. think about how much speed the ride would gain. The corkscrews would put extreme torque on the cars. Vortex's mcbr is used as a block. the same for Flight of Fears MCBR. would want it to go any faster after that point. think about how fast it already goes. then why on earth did it run for so long with the mid-course turned off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coaster_junky Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 ^ Which FoF clone does not have a MCBR? joker's jinx at six flags america. in this picture you can see where the mid-course brake run would be if it was Flight of Fear (the part of track with the circle things around it) and you can see that there isn't a catwalk or any wiring for brakes. http://rcdb.com/544.htm?p=524 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flightoffear1996 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I still love Flight of Fear with or without the mid-course. The first few secodns fo that ride are amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel09 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 plus anyone who pays attention can tell when they are needed. for example if you watch Vortex as it enters it's MCBR (yes im aware, that these are different but it still slows it down). now imagine if you removed those. think about how much speed the ride would gain. The corkscrews would put extreme torque on the cars. Vortex's mcbr is used as a block. the same for Flight of Fears MCBR. would want it to go any faster after that point. think about how fast it already goes. then why on earth did it run for so long with the mid-course turned off? lol, i know that Vortex uses a block, but even if there isn't a train on the block section ahead. it's still going to slow down. have you ever seen it just blow completely through at full speed? I will admit i have no answer to the Flight of Fear operating without it's mcbr. but over time rides do get more intense due to wear. someone older and with more knowledge than all of us , feel free to expand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 two oberservations..... could our FoF have the MCBR because it was originally intended to run with 4 trains?? And maybe slight modifications were made between 96 (the year FoF opened) and 2001 (Joker Opened).... just an idea..... no truth to my statements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan1980 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 You are correct on the capacity differences between the two coasters. However, one thing you failed to remember, The Beast is 4:50 long, and SOB is 3:00. FYI- Beast is 7359' long with a duration of 4:10. SoB is 7032' long with a duration of 2:20. I assume you got these stats of rcdb.com, but will warn you that this website is not always 100% accurate (and it is very hard to be/stay accurate on things like ride times). As an FYI, if you search youtube and watch a POV of SoB, you'll quickly learn that it is longer than 2:20. Also on Beast, while I'm sure at one point it was a 4:10 second ride, this is no longer the case as the first lift hill is significantly slower than it used to be as I believe the blocking scheme now requires the train ahead to be clear of the second lift hill before the following train leaves the first lift hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausty1983 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 The first lift hill is very slow and doesn't get fast until its almost cresting the top going over,also the 2nd lift seems slow to me also and they have the turn before you go down into the helix at the point after you have cleared the chain it seems slow on that point of the ride also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 side note for everyone..... did anyone know SOB had Werner Stengel working on it.... the "roller coaster guy", like the dude who did most of the record breaking coasters, responsible for colossus? Just found that fun and odd....... why does SOB have issues but Colossus does not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofBeast07 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 cause stengal expected sob to be pre-fab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 so did he bail when he noticed it is built to sort of look like a balsa wood bridge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel09 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 two oberservations..... could our FoF have the MCBR because it was originally intended to run with 4 trains?? And maybe slight modifications were made between 96 (the year FoF opened) and 2001 (Joker Opened).... just an idea..... no truth to my statements also Flight of Fear is inside. this will allow it travel slighty faster due the lack of wind blowing against it. ytes I know wind doesnt always blow, but think outside the box. there most likely a reason none of know about. note all of these post aren't to argue who is right and who is wrong, but to state the importance of trim brakes, they are there for reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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