The Interpreter Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Or decreased attendance, decreased per caps and decreased financial performance is Cedar Fair's problem. Or it could be the economy. How much of it is the overall economic environment and how much is a logical response to the product offered will be the topic of many a study for many a year if Cedar Fair's continued existence as a public limited partnership ends at some point due to the Paramount Parks acquisition... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Oh, I haven't forgotten...but a lot of church groups that showed up for Halloween Haunt (!?) have vowed never to return in any month... I wonder how those same church groups would feel if they showed up on Pride day given that many churches do not recognize gay marriage & gay rights. A little leg work goes a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 ...which is one of many reasons that night is now a private event...in the best interests of all concerned...a decision made by the organizers and Paramount Parks, by the way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 ^ So HH should be made a private event as to not offend the same church groups even though it is a well publicized adult event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 If it occurs at all, but that is a decision for Cedar Fair...as kjkjkj has so aptly implied, the park chooses its customers, it cannot make everyone happy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 I can't see the park not having HH, unless the park fails to open for 2010. It is extremely popular and would appear to be very profitable, even without the chruch groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjkjkj Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Yeah, the park probably makes a lot more money holding HH, but the church groups CHOOSING not to go, then the park not having HH at all, and having the church groups come to the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standbyme Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Browntggrr, thanks for the reply…and even though I do not agree with some of your opinions, at least I know what you believe. (I will give you that I did forget how the theming was left to go to pot after a while.) How times change. I remember when folks around here were ready to burn Paramount at the stake and now this has moved to Cedar Fair. Change is always a dificult thing for many to deal with, looks like some are handling it better than others. For the record, I hope I am not being lumped into this group. I never did jump on the "I hate Paramount" bandwagon once they were leaving, just as I missed the "thank God Cedar Fair is buying us" bus! I suspect the next few years may have even more drastic change. Some of Cedar Fair's harshest critics may well look back on these past several years with fondness. This is the SCARIEST thing I have read here in a long time…I can not/do not want to even imagine if this could come true. You can't please all the people all the time. I think this thread proves that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creed Bratton Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 I'm always baffled that, when people talk about Paramount's poor themeing, they immediately jump to The Italian Job and Tomb Raider. No, the Italian Job didn't really belong where it was placed. It could've fit elsewhere. But with a bit of imagination, it fits quite well in the Coney Mall section; I chose to think of it like a "cops 'n robbers chase" sort of ride, and I find that it fits quite well. Also, most of the complaining that I hear is how the antique cars were there. Well, as one of a (growing) number of park patrons who barely remember the antique cars, I find Backlot Stunt Coaster to be a fun ride in a nice location. That leads me to believe that most of the "it doesn't belong there" hatred of it comes from an emotional, I-miss-the-antique-cars perspective. Plus, before Diamondback's splashdown eliminated Swan Lake, Italian Job was mostly removed and cut-off from Rivertown, anyway, and guests near The Beast couldn't see it, nor could guests near Tomb Raider. And as for Tomb Raider, where else would you have it placed? Oktoberfest? Coney Mall? It just so happens that we do not have the luxury of a well-themed, immersive Congo area the way that Kings Dominion does. When it came time for Paramount to place the $20,000,000 ride at one of its parks, I think we should feel lucky that they chose us and fit it in as best they could. In retrospect, of course, I certainly wouldn't mind having gotten Kings Dominion's, and they, ours. Again, Cedar Fair has improved the park markedly in many areas. In others, they've lost touch with what the park stood for. The same can be said of Paramount's time in control. I can't imagine there being a day when Flight Deck is called Flight Deck. It was built as Top Gun, it's referred to as Top Gun, and kids even today are being told by their parents "Let's go ride Top Gun!" Imagine if the tables had turned, and Ohio now was home to a park called Paramount's Cedar Point. Even should they rename Millennium Force to Iron Man: The Ride, it would always be Millennium Force. That sort of change doesn't usually go by unnoticed. What I constantly have to remind myself is, Cedar Fair didn't just buy the park, Paramount put it up for sale. The same can be said of Taft... Paramount didn't just buy Taft, Taft agreed to be purchased by Paramount. There were no hostile takeovers. Paramount sold the park to Cedar Fair, for better or worse. You are baffled by people bringing up two of the most heavily themed rides Paramount installed? What is so baffling? Should the lack of themeing for Face/ Off or Drop Zone be discussed? I am baffled that you mention themeing, but then bring up ride placement. And what is the point to your comment that some of the younger KI park patrons are growing and can barely remember the 'tiques? It really makes me belive you are trying to make the point that things that happened 5+ years ago just don't count anymore. And no, if the 'tiques were removed for a ride like Maverick at CP, there would not be negative comments as WWL was removed for a far superior ride. I understand that you must have forgotten, not only were the 'tiques removed, but so were the very popular Flying Eagles. Perhaps the 'tiques could not have been relocated in the park, but the Eagles certainly could have been. Yes, Swan Lake was removed for DB. But it was removed for a world class coaster. Unfortunate decision, but acceptable. Top Gun was not built as Top Gun, but rather Thunder Road. Paramount changed the name after the purchase. I couldn't agree more with goodyellowkorn182. I think the point was to say things change...that's the way the world works. Some changes are good some changes are bad....we've just got to live with them. yes, Backlot Stunt Coaster could have been placed somewhere else, but it wasn't. Yes, I MISS THE ANTIQUES but I realize that they were taken out for probably several reasons, but I'm not always crying about missing them. I think that he brought up the issue of ride placement because there are sooooo many people who are always complaining about where rides have been placed. KI will never please everyone at the park to where they place the rides, for example say the park owners decide to put another coaster next to Firehawk or behind it, people will complain that its too much of a walk to get to that ride. As for the removal the comment about the younger patrons that can barley remember the antiques, I believe that goodyellowkorn182 was pointing out the fact that patrons during the reign of the antiques are the only ones that who will remember them not to say that they do not remember them. I never got to ride the Flying Eagles...wish I could have though....but hey I can just enjoy the memories of others on that. I do miss Swan Lake but I'd rather have DB! I'm not sure where else it could have gone though....so I give a two thumbs up for the location! Was Top Gun really named Thunder Road?!?!?! That's cool...did not know that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Top Gun was going to be named something else...some say Thunder Road, my sources say Swoop. Whatever, Paramount named it Top Gun...it was ordered by Mr. Lindner and Co., one of the very few things that guy did I approved of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Top Gun was going to be named something else...some say Thunder Road, my sources say Swoop. Whatever, Paramount named it Top Gun...it was ordered by Mr. Lindner and Co., one of the very few things that guy did I approved of... Swoop makes a heck of a lot more sense, considering the area's theme at the time and the design of the ride... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coney Islander Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 http://www.visitkingsisland.com/attractions/detail.cfm?ai_id=653 If you change the last number, some names can be found... Ride names? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I wonder if any of the Phantom Theater sets weren't actually removed from the ride area... Disney has been known to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldiesmann Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 http://www.visitkingsisland.com/attractions/detail.cfm?ai_id=653 If you change the last number, some names can be found... Ride names? The names are going to be officially revealed today (March 10th), as was mentioned in last week's newsletter, so you may have stumbled across it early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alluna Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Oh, I haven't forgotten...but a lot of church groups that showed up for Halloween Haunt (!?) have vowed never to return in any month... Less people lining up in front of me. I don't mind it when people choose not to do something they find distasteful, but I can't stand it when said groups feel the need to shout their decisions from the rooftops in order to make the rest of us feel like scum. There are worse things in the world to campaign against than a clearly adult event at the local theme park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOB_TOM Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 But how dare anyone market anything towards adults in today's thinking. It has to be kid friendly, but appealing to adults as well. Or with church groups, must only make reference to their god, and banishing whatever they believe to be evil. Which, as most know, is an impossibility during Halloween, a holiday based off of a pagan festival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkroz Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 But how dare anyone market anything towards adults in today's thinking. It has to be kid friendly, but appealing to adults as well. Very true! Ironically, that's exactly how I feel about Cedar Fair... It seems as if every park they come into contact with switches its entire marketing and promotional scheme to "We're a family park now / again!" And then they come along with Halloween Haunt, where no one and nothing is off limits... Doesn't really match their nearly universal claim of "we're not thrill parks, we're family amusement parks!" and it certainly doesn't match their often-toted promise that the park is back to the way it used to be before Paramount came along... As always, just sayin'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RingMaster Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 But how dare anyone market anything towards adults in today's thinking. It has to be kid friendly, but appealing to adults as well. Very true! Ironically, that's exactly how I feel about Cedar Fair... It seems as if every park they come into contact with switches its entire marketing and promotional scheme to "We're a family park now / again!" And then they come along with Halloween Haunt, where no one and nothing is off limits... Doesn't really match their nearly universal claim of "we're not thrill parks, we're family amusement parks!" and it certainly doesn't match their often-toted promise that the park is back to the way it used to be before Paramount came along... As always, just sayin'! Of which it also goes against the original Haunt's background at Knott's Berry Farm which doesn't rely on the "edgier, more mature themes" that Kings Island seems so intent on shoving down peoples' throats; they just let their creativity and massive roster of monsters do the talking. Seeing as how, you know, Cedar Fair renamed everyone else's Halloween event (minus Cedar Point, go figure) to the Haunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLorean Rider Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 I think a good family park has a fun halloween event rather than a gory halloween event. Who could I be talking about?? I dont know but I do know that they bring in hundreds of thousands of visitors every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XGatorHead 8904 Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 ^But KI has both! Sure, Howl-O-Fest is no Mickey's Not-So-Scary Halloween Party, and it doesn't need to be, but it's still a very nice event for the families. And not everyone who craves a more mature Halloween event can afford to go down to Universal (also a good park for families IMO), so why not have Haunt and have the best of both worlds? If you don't like an event, don't go. There's plenty of other times/events you can go to. That reminds me of comedian Auggie Smith on Bob & Tom. He was talking about if you don't like smoke, don't go to a place where smoking is allowed (not a stance I entirely agree with, but that's beside the point). He went on to say "I don't like Bed Bath & Beyond, I don't like what happens at Bed Bath & Beyond, so I don't go to Bed Bath & Beyond." I have no problem with people not liking Haunt, that's totally fine and I can understand. I just happen to enjoy both events, Howl-O-Fest with my daughter and Haunt... first as a guest, now as a scaracter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standbyme Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 I have no problem with people not liking Haunt, that's totally fine and I can understand. I think some of us just keep voicing our complaints in hopes that the event could go back to more of what it started out as...and if that happens all of the people who like it NOW can "not go if they don't like it"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincinnatiCyclone Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 I agree with XGatorHead 8904, it's not like K.I. doesn't have a childrens halloween event, the dress up days leading into Halloween are a huge hit with the little kids. And besides, had you ever been to Nick U. at around nine? The place is deserted! It's not like many parents will keep their children at K.I. late at night. So why not have a Halloween Haunt? It's not like you are going to upset anyone. And Halloween Haunt is great for teens and adults! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XGatorHead 8904 Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 I have no problem with people not liking Haunt, that's totally fine and I can understand. I think some of us just keep voicing our complaints in hopes that the event could go back to more of what it started out as...and if that happens all of the people who like it NOW can "not go if they don't like it"! Good one, standbyme! And besides, had you ever been to Nick U. at around nine? The place is deserted! It's not like many parents will keep their children at K.I. late at night. I'm one of those that keep my daughter there until the end (not that she minds one bit)... and NU/PS is great at that time of night... no lines! That doesn't make me a bad parent, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standbyme Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 I'm one of those that keep my daughter there until the end (not that she minds one bit)... and NU/PS is great at that time of night... no lines! That doesn't make me a bad parent, does it? Completely the opposite...I am sure that years from now she will always remember those times very fondly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoor Man Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 i have thought for some time that some of the things they do at Haunt are over the line- by even the most lax of standards. I can't believe that grown people have met and decided that some of these things are in even roughly decent taste. That being said- why don't they move some of the events to the Water Park area; there is nothing going on in there from September through June. it could keep most of the main park available for people who want to come but don't necessarily want to be there with the rest of the Haunt experience. I have a 4-year old and even though they don't "come out" until after the main park closes--- we still pass by all of that stuff get to the kids area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincinnatiCyclone Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 Of course your not a bad parent, there is a lot of parents on this site. If I were you, i wouldn't leave either! Otherwise, you wouldn't be here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RingMaster Posted March 13, 2010 Share Posted March 13, 2010 i have thought for some time that some of the things they do at Haunt are over the line- by even the most lax of standards. I can't believe that grown people have met and decided that some of these things are in even roughly decent taste. That being said- why don't they move some of the events to the Water Park area; there is nothing going on in there from September through June. it could keep most of the main park available for people who want to come but don't necessarily want to be there with the rest of the Haunt experience. I have a 4-year old and even though they don't "come out" until after the main park closes--- we still pass by all of that stuff get to the kids area. I am by no means an expert on this, so this is pure speculation/guesswork. Anyway, I see two reasons why the water park can't be used as a Haunting ground: The water park 'footprint', so to speak. Boomerang Bay is built as one giant S-curve. This causes a bottleneck effect, as hordes of crowds will go down one direction, reach a dead end, and in order to reach an attraction on the opposite side, they have to fight their way through another horde (X-Base during the Haunt is the perfect example of this). Most, if not all, parks utilize an oval or wheel design to create a connected path for easy, regulated guest flow. The wheel design is the better option of the two as a central hub makes traveling from one end to the other much easier than walking in circles, no pun intended; Kings Island has the wheel design with the Eiffel Tower as the central hub. The reason why I explained this is because crowds double (and in some cases, triple) during the Haunt, the last thing you would want is X-Base magnified to an entire park. A literal nightmare. Lack of available space for mazes. Out of the 11 mazes last year, only three of them were completely outdoors (Cut-Throat and Urgent Scare's half-in, half-out doesn't count). Boomerang Bay has maybe one or two locations to add an indoor maze. Seaside Shack by the Season Pass entrance is the only one I can come up at the moment. Sure, the Bathhouses are fairly large, but do you REALLY want a maze stationed in a bathroom? Also, most of the spots that would seem perfect for an outdoor attraction aren't made for regular foot traffic. Unless Boomerang Bay suddenly became one giant scare zone, the water park haunt, I believe, is dead in the water. No pun intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 But how dare anyone market anything towards adults in today's thinking. It has to be kid friendly, but appealing to adults as well. Very true! Ironically, that's exactly how I feel about Cedar Fair... It seems as if every park they come into contact with switches its entire marketing and promotional scheme to "We're a family park now / again!" And then they come along with Halloween Haunt, where no one and nothing is off limits... Doesn't really match their nearly universal claim of "we're not thrill parks, we're family amusement parks!" and it certainly doesn't match their often-toted promise that the park is back to the way it used to be before Paramount came along... As always, just sayin'! So you actually think that when a new company takes over, marketing and promotions are not overhauled? If a company was doing good, there would not be a reason to sell. When a company sells, it means that things needed to be changed. Now how you are tying HH into this is confusing. There maybe a couple instances where this did not happen, but thaose would be very few and far between. But you did bring up a good question: does an adult event that is a total of 21 days and is well publicized take away from the family theme of the park? As always, just askin'; and as always, not expecting a response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 But Mr. Kinzel is insistent that, should Apollo acquire Cedar Fair, there will be no changes noticeable to the guests... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 For 2010. Not for 2011 and beyond. Just like we did not see that much change when CF first took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts