The Interpreter Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 ...Families don't know what their gasoline or heating oil bills could do in the near term, but some analysts, such as Jeff Rubin, former chief economist for CIBC World Markets, are already predicting oil at $225 a barrel as early as 2012. That would translate to $6 to $8 a gallon for gasoline depending on the refiner's margins. Electric utilities across the country have started introducing Smart Meters to homes. In California that's given rise to a class action lawsuit against PG&E; many consumers claim their new Smart Meters raise their electric bills by hundreds of dollars every month. Similar complaints on Smart Meters are already being reported in Texas. ... http://www.businessw...0709_page_2.htm Just imagine what THIS would do to the amusement business...or even your own budget and life... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback96 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 This makes me think that the economy won't be improving for a LONG time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBEW_Sparky Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Yeah, so much for the old "Gas prices will come down as soon as we get that Oil Man out" In all honesty, thats what is paid in the UK for gasoline, as has been reported to me by a good Friend who lives there. I know it will be a cold day on SOB before I let gas prices dictate how I enjoy my leisure time... I will simply rent an economy car that gets 38 to 40mpg and utilize my PP to spend more days in a row at the Point or WoF or whereever. What it WILL affect is the amount of $4 Cokes and $12 footlongs that the crook... err... parks sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browntggrr Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Man, the media is a bunch of comedians. All that's needed for a substantial surge in new car sales for 2010 is real consumer confidence that a substantial recovery is underway. So far, that's the real missing ingredient. Sure, let's try and build real consumer confidence by writing an article and predicting that gas will go up about 200% in two years. Yeah, that makes sense.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 This is why we need to quit it with the oil, but this board is for roller coasters, not politics. Didn't they say that higher gas prices actually helped the amusement park industry, what with people taking "Staycations" and all? I'd have to imagine though that there's a point where it's just too much to be worth it, and $6-$8 a gallon (WOW!) could be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Gasoline prices of $6 to $8 a gallon in a few years? Holy Crap. I know that would definitely put a pinch in my budget. I`m fortunate right now that my part time job is only two miles from my house, and as a consequence, I have been driving a LOT less since Coney and Kings Island closed. In fact, I`m averaging going to the gas station once a month over the last two months! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 This is why we need to quit it with the oil, but this board is for roller coasters, not politics. Didn't they say that higher gas prices actually helped the amusement park industry, what with people taking "Staycations" and all? I'd have to imagine though that there's a point where it's just too much to be worth it, and $6-$8 a gallon (WOW!) could be it. Indeed..."they" (in particular one Dick Kinzel) often said that. I guess that is one of many reasons that attendance was up and per capita spending was up in the Cedar Fair parks last season...oh, wait...they weren't. I think his constant chattering (and that of Shapiro and Co as well) that high gas prices help regional parks was nothing more than hopeful boosterism...that turned out not to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windshawne Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Guess I will be riding a motorcycle in the near future and looking for a way to work at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerRider Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 I find it hard to believe that this will happen. I have known many wise people that thought that right now prices would be $8 a gallon. Some companies will have "reporters" say things like this to scare people to buy "fuel saving cars". I just watched a new show on goverment secrets and it was talking about countrys like China are making cars that make it look like you are saving money with there cars, but in tests it shows that they do not. Some other examples that have there truths 'streched' a bit are global warming and Swine flu. I am not the type of person with tin foil on my head, but I don't let the goverment make me believe everthing they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 I think people will be screwed on doing extra activities if gas goes that high. People won't be able to afford to drive places, and they won't be able to afford to fly. It is going to make it especially difficult for people like my mom. She owns a cleaning company and drives to two, three, even four houses a day to clean. Granted, she tries to book houses close together on days, but that is still a lot of driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 I find it hard to believe that this will happen. I have known many wise people that thought that right now prices would be $8 a gallon. Some companies will have "reporters" say things like this to scare people to buy "fuel saving cars". I just watched a new show on goverment secrets and it was talking about countrys like China are making cars that make it look like you are saving money with there cars, but in tests it shows that they do not. Some other examples that have there truths 'streched' a bit are global warming and Swine flu. I am not the type of person with tin foil on my head, but I don't let the goverment make me believe everthing they say. The Government is not the one saying this...an economic analyst is...and his opinions are not that far out of mainstream thinking...certainly not mainstream thinking, but not all that far from it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flightoffear1996 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 For real if gasoline was that much and I think many Americans are in the same boat as me they wouldnt even be able to afford to go to work. MY car gets about 13 miles a gallon. It would cost me $16 a day in gas and the drive is pretty close. I think there would be a riot if that happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Rider Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 I am afraid that we would see the entire economy completely crumble if they gouge their way to $6.00 a gallon. Look at the damage $4.00 + caused this time around. They almost collapsed it completely then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerRider Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 For real if gasoline was that much and I think many Americans are in the same boat as me they wouldnt even be able to afford to go to work. MY car gets about 13 miles a gallon. It would cost me $16 a day in gas and the drive is pretty close. I think there would be a riot if that happened. I agree, that is why we need focus on lowering our oil dependency, instead of building a computer that does not have a mouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan1980 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 There was a time not too long ago, when many of us would have been in disbelief and wondering about the future if gas ever made it to $3-$4 a gallon. - For much of my driving history in the 1990's and early 2000's, gas averaged in the low to mid $1's (with spikes toward $2) - Now, gas seems to average in the mid to high $2's (with many spikes into the $3's and a couple into the $4's) - There is no reason to believe that this trend won't continue, so an average around $4 with spikes into the $6's won't surprise me (although I think the economist/author are pushing an early timing in the article) Is it important to do something different to ensure that gas doesn't continue to outpace inflation the way it has in the past decade? I believe so, but trying to stay within the TOS (avoiding politics), I'll just say it will require policy and personal changes that so far this country has been unwilling to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 This is why we need to quit it with the oil, but this board is for roller coasters, not politics. Didn't they say that higher gas prices actually helped the amusement park industry, what with people taking "Staycations" and all? I'd have to imagine though that there's a point where it's just too much to be worth it, and $6-$8 a gallon (WOW!) could be it. Did gas prices help the amusement industry? Kinzel predicted they would. Whether he was correct or incorrect is up for debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Terpy said earlier that attendance was down across the board this year. Honestly I trust Terpy more then I do Kinzel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 1, 2010 Author Share Posted January 1, 2010 Terpy said attendance and per caps were both down...and his source was....Mr. Kinzel during a conference call...the only problem here is this...how much of the decline was due the economy in general and how much was due to gas prices? It really is impossible to separate... From the November 3 press release: ...“As anticipated, 2009 has been a challenging year for us,” said Dick Kinzel, Cedar Fair chairman, president and chief executive officer. “In spite of 25 additional operating days during the first nine months of the year, our parks have entertained 1.2 million less visitors compared to this time last year. Through the end of the third quarter combined attendance across our parks totaled 18.8 million visits, average in-park guest per capita spending was $39.73 and out-of-park revenues totaled $86.4 million. This compares with attendance of 20.0 million visits, average in-park guest per capita spending of $40.28 and out-of-park revenues of $94.0 million through the first nine months of 2008. “The decrease in attendance was the result of a sharp decline in group sales business, which continues to be negatively affected by the poor economy and spending cuts at many businesses, schools and organizations,” added Kinzel. “Our attendance figures were also negatively impacted by a decrease in season pass visits resulting from a decline in total pass sales, and by poor weather, particularly cooler than normal temperatures throughout much of the season at our northern and southern region parks.”... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 11, 2010 Author Share Posted January 11, 2010 Gas Prices On The Rise, $3 gallon seen coming soon: ...Gas prices are going up again. We are paying more now than we have in more than a year and experts predict the price at the pump could top $3 per gallon in the coming months....Experts predict by the end of winter, the price of gas will be more than $3 per gallon.... Analysts say the quick rise in gas prices could also effect the nation's recovery from this economic slump as more money goes to pay for fuel.... http://preview.tinyurl.com/yb77tc3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Yeah, so much for the old "Gas prices will come down as soon as we get that Oil Man out" That's what a lot of people HOPED. Pun intended. In all honesty, thats what is paid in the UK for gasoline, as has been reported to me by a good Friend who lives there. Oil prices in Europe are and have been for awhile substantially higher. However, many people in Europe (and not just the urban dwellers, but the suburbanites too) are not solely reliant on their cars as many Americans are. Public transportation is so much better in Europe, but to their credit their population centers aren't as spread out as many American metropolitan areas. However, the backwards thinking of city's like Cincinnati and it's surrounding counties to snub rail transportation and rely solely on automobiles/highways will be the first to feel the hurt as there are no other transportation options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flightoffear1996 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Which is why Cincinnati needs to spring for a light rail system. If you drive I-71 any of the other highways durning rush hour its just horrible. If we had something other than the Metro maybe just maybe it would cut down on some of the traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 11, 2010 Author Share Posted January 11, 2010 Meanwhile, as gasoline prices edge upward, the jovial Mr. Kinzel would assure us all that this is actually good for Cedar Fair's business...as it was last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan1980 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Which is why Cincinnati needs to spring for a light rail system. If you drive I-71 any of the other highways durning rush hour its just horrible. If we had something other than the Metro maybe just maybe it would cut down on some of the traffic. Assuming that you consider a light rail system to be a rail system that connects the suburbs to Cincinnati (as opposed to a streetcar type system that moves people around various parts of the city), I have to disagree. This kind of "investment" would be a waste of money due to the realities of the local area and the unfortanate fact that the cities in this country (for the most part) have been designed around automobile traffic and not rail/foot traffic. Could significantly higher gas prices change this? Maybe, but it'd be a long time in the future before I see it happening because it would be an extremely painful and expensive transition. Having lived in a country with a fabulous rail system that I really enjoy, I've seen the benefits - but having lived in the US for much longer, I just don't see the culture changing enough to force the transition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersNSich Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 When (not so much if) the gas prices skyrocket to levels mentioned in the topic title, then we'll see what transportation projects are a waste of money. People have been fast to slam light rail/streetcar projects, yet road building/widening of up to a billion in greater Cincinnati has taken place without any voting or protesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Which is why Cincinnati needs to spring for a light rail system. If you drive I-71 any of the other highways durning rush hour its just horrible. If we had something other than the Metro maybe just maybe it would cut down on some of the traffic. Assuming that you consider a light rail system to be a rail system that connects the suburbs to Cincinnati (as opposed to a streetcar type system that moves people around various parts of the city), I have to disagree. This kind of "investment" would be a waste of money due to the realities of the local area and the unfortanate fact that the cities in this country (for the most part) have been designed around automobile traffic and not rail/foot traffic. Actually, there's a few things I have to disagree with here. First, Cincinnati, and many other cities, were not designed solely around automobiles. Many of Cincinnati's street and building patterns were designed around the city's fantastic streetcar system that was once here and it's incline. Central Parkway was designed in conjunction with the Cincinnati Subway. A streetcar, like the proposed one is essential for light rail use from the suburbs. Even cities like Cincinnati, that haven't had interurban rail transit in half a century can benefit from light rail transit. In the suburbs you use park and ride centers as well as above ground and below ground stations to bring people downtown to a central hub (the center beneath 2nd st and the stations beneath central parkway). Because light rail stations are further spread out, the streetcar is then used to disperse people around downtown since it's stops are more frequent and in closer proximity. I.E. You park at a park and ride nearby your house, ride the train down to the main hub and take the streetcar to the ball game. I just don't see the culture changing enough to force the transition. See Phoenix, Houston and the Twin Cities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 And it is little known that back in the early part of the 1900s, there were many streetcar, and interurbans and railroad companies that operated in the Cincinnati area. Unfortunately, competition was fierce among them, and they often had overlapping infrastructure and no coherent system for transportation (ie each company had its own intentions in mind, not necessarily transporting people from the suburbs to the central business district). Many of these railroad companies went bankrupt in the 1920s and 1930s. There is a great website entitled Cincinnati Traction History which is ran by Jeffrey B. Jakucyk. Not only does he detail the history of many of these defunct rail companies, but he details what is left of the right of ways that they companies once owned. In some instances, there are still rails buried under pavement/graded right of ways where the tracks used to run. For example, over on the east side, about a mile west of Coney Island on Kellogg Avenue, a rail line used to service the Water Works treatment plant. The line actually crossed over Kellogg Avenue with a bridge supported by stone piers. Several of these piers can be seen on the northern edge of the road in the winter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Robbie, that's a great website to point out. It's also interesting to note that had the original Metro Moves planned passed back in 2002 we'd just now be seeing the completion of the first light rail line (assuming there were no major delays). That line would have had it's northern terminus at/around Kings Island, run down 71 (with park and ride stops along the way), through downtown and the 2nd St. Transit Center, then south towards the International Aiport (with stops along the way). Given the amount of businesses that would be connected to the airport, downtown, suburbs and the regions biggest tourism draws (KI/The Beach/GWL), this line would've been extremely successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan1980 Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Assuming that you consider a light rail system to be a rail system that connects the suburbs to Cincinnati (as opposed to a streetcar type system that moves people around various parts of the city), I have to disagree. This kind of "investment" would be a waste of money due to the realities of the local area and the unfortunate fact that the cities in this country (for the most part) have been designed around automobile traffic and not rail/foot traffic. Actually, there's a few things I have to disagree with here. First, Cincinnati, and many other cities, were not designed solely around automobiles. Many of Cincinnati's street and building patterns were designed around the city's fantastic streetcar system that was once here and it's incline. Central Parkway was designed in conjunction with the Cincinnati Subway. A streetcar, like the proposed one is essential for light rail use from the suburbs. Even cities like Cincinnati, that haven't had interurban rail transit in half a century can benefit from light rail transit. In the suburbs you use park and ride centers as well as above ground and below ground stations to bring people downtown to a central hub (the center beneath 2nd st and the stations beneath central parkway). Because light rail stations are further spread out, the streetcar is then used to disperse people around downtown since it's stops are more frequent and in closer proximity. I.E. You park at a park and ride nearby your house, ride the train down to the main hub and take the streetcar to the ball game. I just don't see the culture changing enough to force the transition. See Phoenix, Houston and the Twin Cities. I'm not sure we are disagreeing as much as you think! - Part of my belief that a light rail system (proposed in the email I responded to) would be a waste of money is because there is not an effective system to disperse people around town from the 2nd street hub - I recognize that the city had a fantastic streetcar/incline system (I've got small kids who love to look at the Museum center model!), however the city was very different then - it would have been much better to develop and grow that system as the city developed and grew (water under the bridge now though). My only point is than to try and recreate one now will be very difficult and expensive AND will require a huge culture change if it is ever to happen (not saying it can't happen, not saying I wouldn't like it to happen, just saying I don't see it happening) As to Phoenix, Houston, and the Twin Cities - can't speak to all (and I'm sure others on these boards have additional data on the one I can speak to), but I did travel to Phoenix recently where the debate was still hot and heavy on the benefit. As I recall the discussion: - They have spent $1.25 Billion of capital on a 20 mile light rail system - Usage is above estimates, although it is driven more by weekend than the expected weekday workers: something like 50,000 passengers/day - Ticket price is $3.50 for a day pass (which seems extremely cheap) - Around the rail line, other investment has occurred and spending is up at "local" establishments Does this make it a model to copy? Will the system be developed into something that changes the car loving culture? Who knows - lets wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 - Part of my belief that a light rail system (proposed in the email I responded to) would be a waste of money is because there is not an effective system to disperse people around town from the 2nd street hub Thats where the currently proposed streetcar comes in, it and future extensions would take care of that. That system is more "ready to go" then people think and really not all that hard/expensive to construct. The design, although currently being re-reviewed on the uptown link, is already in place and just needs funding (rumored to be announced soon, we'll see). My only point is than to try and recreate one now will be very difficult and expensive AND will require a huge culture change if it is ever to happen (not saying it can't happen, not saying I wouldn't like it to happen, just saying I don't see it happening) GIven Cincinnati's attitude towards things like this in the past I can't say I disagree with you, however with the massive defeat of Issue 9 which was designed to prevent rail, I'd say attitudes are changing and I think the modern streetcar will win over people with how easy it is to use similar to Portland. Oh and the museum center model is awesome, glad to see your kids love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 Gasoline To Hit $3 Gallon by Summer: ...Rozell said motorists shouldn't expect a return of the price spikes of 2008, when gasoline jumped above $4 a gallon in some parts of the country. Americans simply aren't burning enough fuel to push prices that high. "I'll be surprised if it got over $3.25," he said. Gasoline futures also jumped Monday to the highest price in more than a month as investors looked ahead to the summer driving season. Prices also were propped up by a festering refinery strike in France, where workers angry about the uncertain future of a Total SA plant have shut down over half of the country's refining capacity. http://abcnews.go.co...tory?id=9905759 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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