In Ed Hart's defense (please don't faint), parking is totally out of his control.

The Fair Board, and the Fair Board alone, controls the parking situation.

I might faint. ;-)

In 180 days, The New Kentucky Kingdom and Hurricane Bay will open for the 2014 season.

....Just thought I'd mention that......

And to me that still seems to be quite an adventurous construction timeline. When you consider new rides, clean up and other issues stemming from an entire park that has been dormant.

From Facebook (link):

Clarification: Recently the term “limited time offer” was used to communicate our current $59.95 season pass price. Please be aware that while the $59.95 price is guaranteed through the holiday season, Kentucky Kingdom management has not yet determined if any price increase will occur after January 10th.
There has been some speculation and confusion based upon news reports of other regional parks that routinely raise their season pass price as they get closer to opening day. However, while that may be the practice of other parks, Kentucky Kingdom’s management will continue to monitor its season pass sales and if there’s a decision to increase the price, we will announce that decision after January 10th.

There's a bit of a jab at Kings Island and Holiday World in there, methinks.

Also known as if sales are poor (and I'd guess they are so far--thus this clarification), we sure as heck won't raise the price.

Chance posted a video on their YouTube page featuring several new views of Lightning Run, including an on-ride POV:

 

 

Capacity: 800 people per hour...

Does anyone else get the Leviathan impression from the enterance and the attraction itself?

Allusive BB1.

Maybe in a Lilliputian sort of way...

what greatness out of the kingdom for 2014:

Capacity: 800 people per hour...

Same as Legend @ Holiday World, ironically, at least according to rcdb.com...

http://rcdb.com/582.htm

So my guess: As long as Kentucky Kingdom doesn't pull way more guests than Holiday World, I'd expect this ride's lines to be at least manageable and not super-duper long on all but the most crowded days, and possibly it's grand opening day. 800rph seems about par-for-the-course for a park of this "size" (1,000,000 guests per year or so)...it works at Holiday World with Legend, and I'm pretty sure Raven is about the same. Now Voyage with only 1 train running...that doesn't work even for the smallest of parks without building up huge lines.

Uh...but...you just mentioned the problem here. The only other substantial coaster at Kentucky Kingdom at this point will be Thunder Run. Unless something has changed, it has one train.

Unlike Holiday World, there are no other coasters to absorb lines. There are, in fact, few other major rides to absorb lines.

If the dry park is even somewhat successful initially, this is going to be a major problem. It certainly won't encourage repeat visits.

Look for a premium queuing system. Pricing this is going to be a thorny problem. And, in that location with the demographics, it could in and of itself generate some rather serious potential security issues.

Security is already going to be a critical potential issue for the new Kentucky Kingdom. If handled well, it will not be an issue. But if the park gets a reputation [again] for having control issues, groups of teens with behavior issues and aggressive behavior, etc., the lines for the coasters will be the least of its problems.

Safety is also critical, as always, but even more so given the park history and reputation.

The first season is key, with operations during the Kentucky State Fair being even more so.

As always, watch what they do, not what they say.

Uh...but...you just mentioned the problem here. The only other substantial coaster at Kentucky Kingdom at this point will be Thunder Run. Unless something has changed, it has one train.

Unlike Holiday World, there are no other coasters to absorb lines. There are, in fact, few other major rides to absorb lines.

If the dry park is even somewhat successful initially, this is going to be a major problem. It certainly won't encourage repeat visits.

Look for a premium queuing system. Pricing this is going to be a thorny problem. And, in that location with the demographics, it could in and of itself generate some rather serious potential security issues.

Security is already going to be a critical potential issue for the new Kentucky Kingdom. If handled well, it will not be an issue. But if the park gets a reputation [again] for having control issues, groups of teens with behavior issues and aggressive behavior, etc., the lines for the coasters will be the least of its problems.

Safety is also critical, as always, but even more so given the park history and reputation.

The first season is key, with operations during the Kentucky State Fair being even more so.

As always, watch what they do, not what they say.

Oops...yeah, I kind of forgot to factor in "other ride soak-up factor" in my comparison. It's true- Legend does have Raven and Voyage to "compete with" and soak up lines, as well as Giraffica (The world's tallest water ride HAS to have some appeal to the same demographic as Legend) and of course the uber-popular attractions in Splashin' Safari waterpark. Kentucky Kingdom's waterpark, with its big new additions, will likely be popular but there is only 1 other major dry coaster...and then you have the target demographic issue, and the location issue...and then the bucket list of other issues (height restrictions for their rides, strong competition from 2 well-known and established parks, no real room to expand to further compete with said rival parks, no control over parking, having to split any profits with the fair board, etc etc...) Ed Hart has an uphill battle here. I hope he realizes "BIG THRILL RIDES!" won't fix Kentucky Kingdom's other issues, and in fact could make them worse...

And I'm really trying hard to think but...are they any very successful major parks in large cities in the US? I'm thinking of most of the more well-known parks (Cedar Point, KI, SFGadv, SFMM, SFGam, Disney, Busch Gardens, etc etc) and all of them are at least a few miles outside of major cities, not actually "in" them like Kentucky Kingdom...

Elitch Gardens moved into downtown Denver. It has struggled ever since, and Herschend is walking away from managing the place.

Savor this big investment in Kentucky Kingdom. Years 2 and 3 are to get about $7.6 million, total. After that, capex of about $1.5 to $2 million a year is slated. How anyone can keep a modern park fresh with that is well beyond me.

Interesting about Elitch Gardens read up on it. I have to agree most parks are not right in downtown areas/ or busy parts. They have to make the new kingdom family friendly. Did not know about the capital investments either hope those rise as how can any park survive unless it will be lots of flat/ water park slide additions.

Elitch Gardens moved into downtown Denver. It has struggled ever since, and Herschend is walking away from managing the place.

Savor this big investment in Kentucky Kingdom. Years 2 and 3 are to get about $7.6 million, total. After that, capex of about $1.5 to $2 million a year is slated. How anyone can keep a modern park fresh with that is well beyond me.

Yikes...with that kind of money, how are they supposed to "add large new attractions" like Ed Hart even seems to want- which would be needed because you know Kings Island will do that (based on Cedar Fair's ownership so far, KI tends to get a new coaster every 5 years or so and in between coasters we could get flat rides, waterpark attractions, kids rides, refurbishments to older rides, etc etc.) and if Holiday World isn't critically injured money-wise from the recent legal battles (they are spending $8 million this year alone though- a good sign?) they will make additions as well. Can KK even do basic upkeep with that money?

I'll still be visiting this park though, hopefully. Could change my opinion on its future, and I do want to try Thunder & Lightning Run and some of those new waterslides that look awesome. Part of that though is kind of knowing they might not be there too much longer should KK fail yet again, and do wish to ride these before they are relocated (I could honestly see the fair board selling a bunch of the newer rides at least if the park fails again to make a quick buck) or demolished...

The Fair Board doesn't get first dibs on the rides or even the park land if the Kingdom fails this time. The Bank of Kentucky will have a lien on it all.

This negativity is ridiculous.

So is your optimism.

It's not negativity, it's realism. Remember, this is a park that's already failed twice.

Realism is not negativity.

Wearing rose colored glasses is not realism.

The same poster was busy telling me not all that long ago how great the Kingdom's prospects were under the Kochs.

I've seen West World, Hard Rock Park, Wild Escape and many others come and go.

Kentucky Kingdom has a chance. Not much of one, but a chance. I'd give the dry park a 10 percent chance of still being there in 2020, and the water park a 25 percent chance. That's my opinion, based on my long experience as an industry observer.

By contrast, I'd say Kings Island has a 99.999 percent chance of surviving to 2020, and a 40 percent chance that Cedar Fair will still own it.

Holiday World I would give a 90 percent chance of still existing in 2020, and a 30 percent chance of still being majority held by Koch family members.

You have to remember, that we all want all parks to survive. But we have to be realistic. Competition breeds success for all. But that also means being smart and seeing it from all sides. You notice not many people have thrown their own personal money behind KK to rebuild it.

This area has many parks that were closed prematurely (Geuga Lake, Le Sourdesville). KK is located in an area that has things going against it. It does not own all of its land and has height restrictions. If this park survives will Hart stick around or does the park get sold again? Not many know the answer to this.

A park that has a limited number of rides cannot expect to compete against bigger parks. The way it stands, KK does not entice me enough to spend my money there. (Not to mention, I have not seen/heard a single radio/tv spot for this park) Many families are beginning to plan family vacations for Summer of 2014. I have seen a few Busch garden/Sea world commercials, many universal and Disney spots. Not to mention the over saturation of CP and KI spots. Holiday World has a nice little niche and as it stands Im not sure KK has done enough to drive tourists away from HW.

KK is in a good but bad situation at this point, and we haven't even seen the attendance records yet for this 2014 season, therefore it is semi premature to even make any kind of prediction off of it's current condition. It has the upper hand on the selection of attractions and it's own niche. Kentucky technically right now has one small "park", Beech Bend. Which even then it has a few attractions, the major attraction being a GCI coaster by word of mouth. With that, it has attractions that beat out Kings Island, the King of the North in this situation, such as the Flying Machines and the slides. The same can be mentioned about Holiday World, sure HW has a large amount of slides, but it doesn't have the tallest body slide. It is not going to be your run of the mill Cedar Fair park, it is a Hart park, it will be for the whole family. Known for the misc family flats, the moderate coasters, and the high thrill slides. That is a "true" family park. As well, families around Louisville do miss the park itself. I have heard Kentucky Kingdom in every conversation I have with friends from that region, it is missed and now with the opening it has brung about a new sense of fun in the area. "Tradition trumps the new in most classic ideas". Now at the same time one must take into consideration on the present situation. We are looking at a park that has failed not once but multiple times, it is a uneasy market. The Fair Board is the ruler of the land, therefore KK is under that belt that the Fair Board has. As well, the all and mighty Holiday World lingers across the river with it's own mix of attractions and fun. Which to some, is more superior, but to some is not. The current situation on the construction plan is also an negative in the fact that they cannot host all of the attractions in one year, but at the same time it is a perk for guests to return the following year.

Therefore, in this stance I cannot simply state "It will fail" nor "It will succeed". Though, I can state that it does have a few hurdles to conquer in this new era, and I hope it succeeds.

I guess I'm a little more optimistic than you guys, though I admittedly have only about two to three years of serious industry-watching experience and haven't visited Kentucky Kingdom before. I think the way they're approaching reopening the rides is clever; they're stressing that they're taking time to make sure they're running well. Yes, they're only going to have the Runs (I have been waiting ages to make that joke), but they've made it clear they've spent a sum to make sure that Thunder Run is running in top form. For a region that's watched the place go downhill for four years, I think that's a wise move. And Lightning Run is nothing you can find anywhere remotely near the park--there really isn't anything nearby it even looks like that it could be confused with. The first year's offerings are marketable to both the local area and beyond, and that's what the park needs. Whether or not those will bring in the figures Hart was promising months ago remains to be seen, but I figure from a construction/renovation standpoint that that's how I'd do things right now.

If there's something that I'd expect that would limit them in the future (apart from the weirdly limited capital plans), it's the park's location/height limit and lack of any major marketing. It doesn't look like the park has a ton of space to expand into. The typical response to that kind of concern is "look at Indiana Beach," but the place is literally surrounded by suburban Louisville and the airport. The place can't build tall rides--and that can be fine, depending on what they build in spite of that--but it looks like the land would quickly approach capacity if someone gets remotely aggressive with expansion. How many rides can you stack on top of other rides before cost and height become too restrictive? Also, like others have pointed out: it feels like they're being incredibly quiet about the whole thing. If I'm in Cedar Point's marketing sphere (and USED to be in Six Flags' circa the original Mr. Six commercial) and Columbus is in Kennywood's, why haven't I heard anything about the place besides the Facebook posts I'm already subscribed to? I mentioned all that stuff about bringing the old stuff back while providing unique new stuff, but if no one outside Louisville knows about it, what's the point? If a coaster is constructed and no one's around to take pictures, did it really happen?

I guess I'm a little more optimistic than you guys, though I admittedly have only about two to three years of serious industry-watching experience and haven't visited Kentucky Kingdom before.

I'm optimistic too, but I must keep a level head with this odd time. I have good hopes, especially with the new additions coming in.

According to Kentucky Kingdom's Facebook page, they have now posted billboard ads all over the Louisville area.....

(Photo Courtesy of The New Kentucky Kingdom)

Glad to see that there is some effort being put into marketing the park now.........

That doesnt look like a photo..... or at least a photo of the real billboard... could be what the billboards will look like...

The thing is, those of us around Louisville, already know the park is opening. They need to get some signs up OUTSIDE of the area.

Location, Lack of Marketing and a small offering of initial rides. Hmm this formula has been tried before and has failed miserably.

That doesnt look like a photo..... or at least a photo of the real billboard... could be what the billboards will look like...

Although that may be the initial proposed rendering... that's exactly what the real thing looks like. The billboards are that *odd.*