Ride Enhancements to The Crypt

[gigacoaster2k]

MAKE IT DO THIS.

[Browntggrr]

KI's is a Giant Top Spin (still the only one) & KD's is a regular top spin.

You really can't compare the two.

[TH13TEEN]

^ The Crypt at Kings Dominion is a floorless topspin, just like Riptide at ValleyFair! and Knott's Berry Farm. They are really intense. And a lot of fun.

[gigacoaster2k]

KI's is a Giant Top Spin (still the only one) & KD's is a regular top spin.

You really can't compare the two.

I didn't know that.. whoops. Thanks for pointing that out though.. I suppose you learn something new every day!

[The Interpreter]

And Huss's Giant Rides seem to oft be less thrilling than the regular versions thereof. See also Frisbees....(of which the normal version is far more thrilling than the Giants found at CP and KI).

[Browntggrr]

^ The Crypt at Kings Dominion is a floorless topspin, just like Riptide at ValleyFair! and Knott's Berry Farm. They are really intense. And a lot of fun.

You are correct.

But engineering between the floorless & regular top spin is still the same vs. comparing each to KI's Giant Top Spin.

[AZ Kinda Guy]

Our Top Spin wasn't built for that. It was built to do only slightly more than it does now...

Assuming Tomb Raider worked as planned, there would be nothing different in the capabilities of the ride in the second installation of the Giant Top Spin. There's really nothing special about our Top Spin other than it's a piece of crap. Like I said, if ours worked as intended, there's a good chance you would have seen other Giant Top Spins installed. Far more thrilling ones at that.

[son of beast214]

was the front row removed to release some stress from the ride?

[The Interpreter]

As posted earlier in this thread, yes...

[bkroz]

was the front row removed to release some stress from the ride?

Of course, that's never been made official. Neither Cedar Fair nor Kings Island released an official press release explaining why our Giant Top Spin was changed.

Making assumptions (which can be hazardous) based on the timeline, one might notice that as soon as the front row was removed (lowering the capacity to be comparable to those traditional top spins and suspended top spins), the ride began performing its more acrobatic, intense cycle. If one were seeking to interpret causation (which one who interprets would not), he or she may recognize that the ride began performing a more acrobatic cycle after it's front row was removed.

A: The ride's front row was removed, lowering it's capacity by one-third.

B: The ride began performing the intense, nine-flip program traditionally performed only by the smaller, lighter top spins.

Of course, just because B happened after A doesn't mean B happened because of A. A very wise member here taught me that. As I mentioned, based on the HUSS website, it appears that the removal of this row was considered integral to the ride's operation, as HUSS Giant Top Spins are now offered with only two rows by default. So I assume (again, dangerous) that it was partly to install a new program, and partly to relieve stress and strain on the ride. Or perhaps one is a cover for the other...

[son of beast214]

but i loved it the way it used to run in 2003. i didn't mind the ride being down a lot because that is truly a ounce in a life time opportunity. i know their was LOADS of POWER needed for that but i think if they added another motor it would be better.

[bkroz]

but i loved it the way it used to run in 2003. i didn't mind the ride being down a lot because that is truly a ounce in a life time opportunity. i know their was LOADS of POWER needed for that but i think if they added another motor it would be better.

Added another motor?

Are you an engineer?

The fact is, it was determined by someone of power that the two-flip program we saw for much of 2009 and all of 2010 was the best way to balance the ride's operation and uptime with guest satisfaction. If more could have been done at the time to improve either of those without the expense of the other, it would've been. Perhaps this off-season has seen some additional testing to determine the optimum cycle possible for the ride. After all, the switch from 9 to 2 flips in 2009 was done mid-season, and seemed last-minute; perhaps even desperate. Or perhaps that really is the best that that ride is capable of at this time.

I personally doubt that the ride is capable of doing what it did in 2003, and even less able to perform anything resembling its 2008 season. That, it seems, is where we are.

Perhaps things will change this year.

Basically, they did not turn a once-highly-regarded ride into what we knew in 2010 just to tick off the general public or enthusiasts... If it could've done more given the time, money, knowledge, and equipment available, it would've.

[Snowman]

These may be too obvious and already answered questions, but thanks in advance for the education:

What is the difference between a "regular" topspin and a"giant" topspin? Also, what is done to the machinery that makes them safe for outdoor operation, and why wasn't it done to Crypt given that there was once water and fire elements?

[AZ Kinda Guy]

but i loved it the way it used to run in 2003. i didn't mind the ride being down a lot because that is truly a ounce in a life time opportunity. i know their was LOADS of POWER needed for that but i think if they added another motor it would be better.

Added another motor?

Are you an engineer?

Man if this isn't the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is.

[bkroz]

I didn't call him anything. In fact I asked if he was an engineer...

And how do you know that I'm not, my friend?

These may be too obvious and already answered questions, but thanks in advance for the education:

What is the difference between a "regular" topspin and a"giant" topspin? Also, what is done to the machinery that makes them safe for outdoor operation, and why wasn't it done to Crypt given that there was once water and fire elements?

Top spins and the later suspended top spins hold 40 and 38 passengers respectively (with the suspended variety having a floor that lowers away, giving a sensation not unlike an inverted roller coaster, with riders sitting back to back to achieve the sensation for both rows. Both can lift their gondolas to a height of 59 feet.

Our Giant Top Spin (the only one in the world) began its life holding 77 riders (double that of the other two) in three rows that were staggered in height (to achieve a "theater-style" seating arrangement where everyone had a good view). Observationally, one could assume that the Giant Top Spin was made for more of a theater-experience. In fact, Tomb Raider: The Ride originally featured only one flip. More than a thrill ride, it seems to have been designed for a unique and somewhat-thrilling show style ride (and again, it's possible that it could've had more thrilling purposes, too, but the only installation of it in the world is at our park, so I'm just going by what we've seen).

While ours is only what, 10 or 20 feet taller, it's really almost impossible to describe the real difference in size until you ride one of the smaller varieties and then return to ours. The sheer length and size of the gondola, even missing a row, is staggering, and looking above you and seeing how far the center shaft is... It's really remarkable.

As Terpy had put it in another thread, the reason it wasn't "weather-proofed" is simple: it wasn't going to be exposed to weather. Why pay to have it defended against the elements when it was designed to be an indoor ride? Apparently it backfired since it interacted with mist, fog, and water day-in and day-out (which apparently didn't strike anyone as exposure to the elements...).

A suspended top spin (The Crypt at Kings Dominion)

Our Giant Top Spin

[son of beast214]

but no im not a engineer.

[TombRaiderFTW]

These may be too obvious and already answered questions, but thanks in advance for the education:

What is the difference between a "regular" topspin and a"giant" topspin? Also, what is done to the machinery that makes them safe for outdoor operation, and why wasn't it done to Crypt given that there was once water and fire elements?

In a nutshell, a "regular" top spin (i.e. the Top Spin, Top Spin 2, and Suspended Top Spin models, if you're asking the HUSS Rides website) is a very nimble, very disorienting ride that does multiple thrilling flips with much ease. In contrast, a "giant" top spin (which is actually HUSS's name for it--the Giant Top Spin) is meant to do the same things, but on a much larger scale.

Judging off the ride's amount of downtime (or downtown, if you're asking KI ), that goal wasn't quite met. Instead, as Tomb Raider, the ride moreso functioned as staggered theater seats that just happened to do an exciting flip or four while interacting with the theming, such as the lava pit "scene". As The Crypt, which has far, far less to look at while you're riding, the thrill is almost exclusively determined by the ride cycle. Therefore, the park apparently attempted to copy the ride cycle used by the "regular" top spins--a cycle which, if you've ever ridden The Crypt at Kings Dominion, a Suspended Top Spin, spends about half its time upside down as it does right side up. It's very disorienting and requires, compared to the old Tomb Raider cycle, a huge amount of movement.

Because of the ride's comparatively huge size, the new cycle was incredibly forceful. Its biggest feature was 2 or 3 sets of 3-4 flips in rapid succession, and the ride would absolutely plaster you to your seat during those flips. It was easy to guess that the ride just wasn't meant to do such nimble movement, and the fact that a new, much tamer cycle was introduced seems to support that theory. Instead of face-melting flips, the ride instead casually locks and unlocks the seats' rotation while doing a cycle very similar to the average ferris wheel. Compared to KD's Crypt's cycle, it's incredibly tame... and probably much easier on the ride.

But I'm very curious to see what 2011's theming brings us. I'm not expecting a lot as far as the ride cycle goes, but maybe they'll do something to make those two or three casual inversions a bit more thrilling. Even a sudden change in lighting and a recorded shriek or two (coughcoughmaybefromthatgiantladyonthewallcoughcough) could make the sudden locking of the seats' rotation during the tamer cycle a bit more exciting. But we'll see.

EDIT: Okay, GYK beat me to the punch. Oh well; I'm leaving this post here anyway.

[EssentiallyCoaster]

(Just realized it was already posted, but I love the improvements!)

[bkroz]

Just to insert an opinion piece here, I absolutely love Kings Dominion's Crypt. The long and short of top spins (even the best ones), is that they often spend a lot of time just straightening themselves out after flips. Even after a great, energetic set of maneuvers, the ride has to balance out and lock and the arms have to lift back up... And then there's a 30+ seconds it takes for the ride to make it back to the unloading position even after the fun has stopped (at Kings Dominion, that void is filled by water fountains. On our Tomb Raider: The Ride, it was filled by the goddess' last shriek, and her final cloud of fog blasting towards you just as she dies. On our Crypt, that time is spent with green, leaf-shaped lights illuminating the walls as the ride rights itself).

But that aside, the nine-flip cycle is great at Kings Dominion's Crypt. The water and fire and synchronized music do a really great job of filling the awkward voids, and the flips are fun and the ride feels light and aerodynamic.

Speaking personally, that same exact nine-flip cycle on Kings Island's Crypt was far too much. As I mentioned earlier, our ride felt so heavy and so cumbersome trying to perform the same flips that it was almost scary. As TRFTW mentioned, you quite literally felt plastered the seat during the flips, and uncomfortably so in my opinion. The deafening roar of the downward swing was a little scary - you could hear that the ride had a LOT of power, and I swear I could feel the brakes struggling to keep hold without wearing away. From my point of view, our ride was too large for that cycle not only from a mechanical view, but from a rider comfort point of view. Nothing makes me nauseous. The Crypt '08 did. I usually rode it twice per day, just because I relished so in seeing the goddess, the volcano, the stalagmites, the queue, etc. On the second time, most of my friends decided to sit out because the darn thing was just so forceful. After riding it, I would need to sit down and drink water.

So to me, it works on smaller top spins. But for the Giant Top Spin, I actually prefer the two-flip cycle. Of course, that isn't saying a whole lot. But now, the ride is a bit disorienting, a bit thrilling, and (whether they like you to or not), you can see the neat Tomb Raider themeing. Even though it may not be vomit-inducing, it's fun to feel the brakes turn on as it kicks you head over heels into the backward flip, going face-first towards the pointy protrusions of the former-lava-pits as the ride lights flash. Is it too short? Yes. I think adding one more flip (or even just making it two forward in a row, two backward in a row) would extend the ride time enough to make it feel "worth it," which it certainly doesn't right now...

[KIBOB]

Although I had never ridden The Crypt - 2008, from what goodyellowcorn and tombraiderFTW said, as well as the physical scale of the ride, I can only imagine how forceful the ride must have been when it was running the KD Crypt cycle. Just the thought of the already problematic braking system being put through all of that stress is pretty unnerving. It is hard to imagine how many times the main control computer "freaked out" while the braking system was continuously being activated to control a 30 ton gondola moving around with immense torque.

Here is a video of the 2008 cycle that I found on youtube, I don't know if it has ever been posted on here before.

It is kind of freaky listening to the roar of the ride, and the screech of the brakes in the video, let alone on the actual ride.

If only there were some way to "upgrade" the braking and control system within the ride.

[Snowman]

Thank you goodyellowcorn182 and TombRaiderFTW for the education. Frankly, I don't care if either of you are engineers or not, you both provide entertaining and informative posts. I appreciate you taking the time to further my KI knowledge. I'm going to hold good thoughts for the Crypt's upgrades.

[AZ Kinda Guy]

I didn't call him anything. In fact I asked if he was an engineer...

And how do you know that I'm not, my friend?

First off, I'm not your friend. Secondly, because you are a Tomb Raider fanboy and nothing good as ever came from Tomb Raider.

[bkroz]

I didn't call him anything. In fact I asked if he was an engineer...

And how do you know that I'm not, my friend?

First off, I'm not your friend. Secondly, because you are a Tomb Raider fanboy and nothing good as ever came from Tomb Raider.

Thank you for putting me in my place! Or... something... I can't quite make it out.

Moving on...

[TombRaiderFTW]

I didn't call him anything. In fact I asked if he was an engineer...

And how do you know that I'm not, my friend?

First off, I'm not your friend. Secondly, because you are a Tomb Raider fanboy and nothing good as ever came from Tomb Raider.

As a (joking!) aside, does this mean engineers aren't allowed to like Tomb Raider? Crap, time to change my major...

[Truth Seeker]

All the misinformation in this thread is ridiculous.

I see, so, is it safe to assume you have facts to back up your claim that much of the information provided in this thread is in fact false?

[kjkjkj]

I didn't call him anything. In fact I asked if he was an engineer...

And how do you know that I'm not, my friend?

First off, I'm not your friend. Secondly, because you are a Tomb Raider fanboy and nothing good as ever came from Tomb Raider.

Even if you disagree with somebody's views, then that's fine, but why be so rude about it. GYK makes good points and suggestions, and makes good contributions to these forums. People on this website should be "fanboys" of the park and the rides. We are on a Kings Island FAN forum, in case you didn't notice.

And another thing, if you have the time to claim that there is so much misinformation in this thread, then you should have the time to explain what information is wrong, instead of just making vague posts that don't add anything to the discussion what so ever

[Snowman]

All the misinformation in this thread is ridiculous.

I see, so, is it safe to assume you have facts to back up your claim that much of the information provided in this thread is in fact false?

I'd also like to know what information is so ridiculous.

Also, I'm 45 and love Kings Island, so does that make me a "Fan Man"?

[Kara Thrace]

i wonder how many more preview pictures we are going to get before the park opens. Wouldn't it be awesome if we got a video of the ride cycle? Even a short ten second clip from a cell phone would be better than anything!

[Browntggrr]

i wonder how many more preview pictures we are going to get before the park opens. Wouldn't it be awesome if we got a video of the ride cycle? Even a short ten second clip from a cell phone would be better than anything!

That would then leave the door open for some to accuse KI of false advertising if the cycle does not work long-term....

[coaster_junky]

on facebook someone posted a response from don about the ride upgrades, it said, to the effect of, the antechamber and pre-show room are being re-modeled/themed (i guess that's what you could call it), and a new sound track will be played. these were just "initial" changes, however, so i guess that there are more to come.