Starting to Decode 2014

[ProdigyRider]

I'm calling the invert, 150-200 ft with 7 inversions, a loop, dive loop, zero g roll, 2 corkscrews and 2 zero g rolls. No coaster has budged Vortex off its spot in ki since 87 about inversions, its been 25 years plus since a sit down coaster threatened Vortex on inversions. Invert is the only choice, so face the facts everyone because everything else is played out.

[CoasterXtreme]

How are we so sure it's going to be an inverted? Did they make an announcement? I think we will be surprised!

[JTW]

Those who can decode BM stickers say that the supports spotted at CSF are inverted. It could be coming here.

[Hoosierjtf]

I just can't believe Cedar Fair would waste this much money on a coaster using 20 year old technology. If it is an invert, they should have just re-located something or bought some used invert because they are all the same. I guess Kings Island will remain the family destination and Cedar will still be for the big boys. Installing an invert is almost laughable, it belongs somewhere like KK. Looks like I will have to wait until 2020 for the giga, since they are 20 years behind CP.....smh

[bmbillups]

I just can't believe Cedar Fair would waste this much money on a coaster using 20 year old technology. If it is an invert, they should have just re-located something or bought some used invert because they are all the same. I guess Kings Island will remain the family destination and Cedar will still be for the big boys. Installing an invert is almost laughable, it belongs somewhere like KK. Looks like I will have to wait until 2020 for the giga, since they are 20 years behind CP.....smh

agreed...hoping it is not an invert

[DiamondBackGirl]

For my money I really don't want to see an invert, after the last few pages I'm sad to say thats what I think it will be. Will I be in line next year to ride? Sure, but to me an invert doesn't have the re-ride value that other coasters have. The only invert I have ever really really liked was volcano, (I really like launch coasters) But like I said, next year I'll still be in line like everyone else. An invert is not my personal pick but if it's what KI needs then so be it. I'll still buy a pass and be happy.

[fryoj]

Not sure exactly how long the blue supports have been there, but they've been there a while.

http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?/topic/27275-starting-to-decode-2014/page-241#entry533093

Apparently the photobucket exceeded capacity, but you could see these blue things in the background of the Green supports that went to Heide Park

[ProdigyRider]

An invert can be just as good than a giga, and referring to another post, a giga would make Diamondback a waste of money because a gigs would drown Diamondback, it sensible that the park creates a smaller coaster to increase park attendance and ridership. If a giga would be placed, Diamondback would be gone before any next coaster, sounds like a bad deal to waste 22 million to spend another 30 million and ruin a good name to a park, because I would like to ride Diamondback into the sunset as a popular ride and not a ride collecting rust and dust. B&M doesn't like gigas and intamin isn't the most trusted with their rides, and there's a giga up state from the construction site, so why bother.

[funpark]

I think people get hung up on words way to much. I know if this turns out to be an invert and its 200 feet and not called a hyper invert I'm not really going to care. I'm not going to get off the ride and say , it would have been a much better ride experience if they called this a hyper invert. I don't think it matters.

I chuckled at this. It makes me so excited (as if I'm not already excited because something is coming) to classify it, even if it's not there yet. I apologize because I did not mean to stir the pot at all. I'm sorry.

I don't think you have anything to be sorry about. You can call it a hyper invert if you want. I actually found the conversation entertaining . I was chuckling about it myself because some people do take this so seriously at times.

[thekidd33]

^^Yeah because no one rides Behemoth anymore. In fact I hear they are removing it.

(Please be advised that the above contains the use of something known as sarcasm.)

[ProdigyRider]

The fact that KI only has four operating coasters with inversions, and newer hyper with a one of a kind splashdown moves the nose of the compass south from a giga. Its repetitive to ride coasters with airtime and lat GS than positive GS. If we follow CW, then wouldn't we have all ready an invert and a giga to come. We are not following the path, its crucial to mix the lineups a bit from park to park to make each park a destination in its own right instead of the same spread out. How many parks have a stratacoaster AND a Gigacoaster? How many parks have the worlds longest woodie? How many parks have racing coasters in two states? Each park has something unique about them. And since Cedar Fair owns ever gigacoaster except one, a giga is least likely to ever happen, a blitz coaster or even an old Schwarzkopf coaster could show before a gigacoaster.

[AintNutinElse2Do]

Out of the inverts I've been on Volcano is by far my favorite. Which got me thinking, with the rumblings of B&M wanting to develop an in house launch coaster. What if they decided to make their debut on an invert? A guy can dream right?

[McSalsa]

Hmm...I'd better clarify something- while I did suggest a Giga would "drown out" Diamondback's popularity, it would not happen overnight- for the first few years, Diamondback would still be very popular as it is still fairly new. However, 10 years down the road, when 2-3 more new coasters have likely shown up in the park, the effect would be very noticeable- the Giga will likely still have long lines unless something else had drawn guests attention away from even it, and Diamondback, while it may still have some popularity, it would be overcome by the ride's high capacity and thus Diamondback would end up in a situation similar to Magnum XL-200 at Cedar Point where it's line is always uber-short. This is also what I think may also happen with Behemoth @ Canada's Wonderland once that park adds a couple more new coasters to aid their lineup- let's say, CW gets a B&M Wing Rider and RMC Wooden Coaster (not that it matters, these are just some thoughts on what could be next @ CW)- there will eventually be a very noticeable gap in popularity between Leviathan and Behemoth by that point. Granted, this is just random speculation, and I could be wrong.

[TTD-120-420]

Why is Alpengeist so loved by Busch Gardens fans?

Because the rest of the rides here are mediocre.

I think if you were to take a poll of the average KI visitor, and ask them if they wanted a giga or an invert, they'd probably say they wanted an invert. Why? Because in their minds, a giga is simply a larger version of what we already have in Diamondback. On the other hand, aside from Valleyfair, Kings Island is one of the only major parks in the CF chain which doesn't have a coaster with a zero-G or Immelman/dive loop. I think KI's largest demographic would rather have something unique right now instead of a larger version of something they got 4 years ago.

I think if you asked most people if they could have a ride like Millennium Force or like Raptor, they would pick Millennium. If you asked the GP if they wanted a zero-G roll or dive loop, they'd probably look at you like you are crazy. They don't know what that means. Obviously the GP at Canada's Wonderland doesn't notice that Behemoth and Leviathan are similar.

All of that being said, I'm almost positive this is an Invert.

Raptor is a walk on later in the day.

So is Gatekeeper.

Is there any construction work anywhere else?

Yes.

[DontWantToWait42mar0]

It's kind of funny how we get this thread back and now the majority of the new discussion has already been covered at some point in this thread.

Maybe we should have considered keeping the new Starting to Decode 2014 instead.

[FoF96"]

A coaster with inversions, regardless of height, is not a "hyper."

Why couldn't an inverted coaster be a hyper? Lets think outside the box. That's what we're all here doing.

An inverted coaster could be a hyper if it had no inversions. A "hyper" is a coaster without inversions with a height between 200 and 299 feet. Period.

Was Son of Beast not referred to as a hyper woodie? I could be wrong but I believe it was and I also recall it having an inversion... ( sorry to bring up Son of Beast but it was only example I could think of)

[Hoeter]

Found this...it's from Wikipedia, I know not the best source for anything

A hypercoaster or megacoaster according to Intamin can mean one of two things:

• Any continuous-circuit roller coaster with a height or drop measuring greater than 200 feet^[1][2]

Or, more narrowly:

• A style or model of roller coaster with three features:^[3][4][5][6]
  • A height of 200–299 feet
  • Lacks inverting elements
  • A lift hill, not a launch

[LongLiveTheSmurfRide]

Yeah, "hyper", "giga", "strata"; I always assumed they only described the height and had nothing to do with other elements included with the ride.

[upstop]

Hey, It's a rollercoaster! It's going to go rather high, drop fast and have inversions and it's going to draw in visitors so the park can create what....more rollercoasters! Regardless of whether it's the kind of coaster you want today, I figure you will ride it and you just might have fun and the end result will be something bigger and better in a couple of years. It's a cyclical thing...I'm just excited that it will have wheels and a track.

[Merthecat]

Matt Ouimet said He doesn't have another wing rider on the menu for any of the other parks right now.

He could be lying. If you were asked that question would you just say "oh yeah we got one planned for ki and possibly more".

[thedevariouseffect]

So I'm now up and figured I'd chime in. I have uploaded pictures to view of the construction site with my new phone as I was testing it. Ignore some pictures in there as again testing.

Anyways few new footers being built since I was there last week, and the biggest new development someone touched up on somewhere else, is in the conglomerate of footers in the top left of the site and where the two rectangular footers are there are now "footers" with no studs sticking out it them, just orange "vents." There are quite a few of these out there and I'm not sure as for what

anyways here are the pictures let me know what you think:

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/bml5rrb1xjahidc/6pM1tY4qv5

[Beast1979]

All of these posts suggesting that B&M inverts are antiquated technology and irrelevant in 2013 and "belong at KK" are really starting to annoy me. Allow me to explain why these arguments are bunk.

Let's start with the argument that they are outdated and irrelevant. In that barring insane new advancements in technology (like anti-rollbacks or the like) that doesn't happen to coasters. The first sit down looping coasters were built by Arrow in the 1970's. Does that make Kumba any less significant in the 1990's, or the same Arrow coasters less significant now? Our Vortex is 26 years old, and still one of the most popular rides in the park. Heck, the first hyper coaster was built a full 20 years before Diamondback, B&M's first hypercoaster was built 10 years before Diamondback, but no one complained of the hypercoaster "gimmick" being outdated and irrelevant when it came to Kings Island. It was a hole in Kings Island's lineup that was filled with an excellent ride, regardless of the age of the model.

Which leads me to my next point. Inverted coasters are not a gimmick. There are some elements of roller coasters that you can debate are gimmicky. 90 degree lifts, tunnels, backwards running trains, etc. But inverted coasters are an entire model of roller coaster, and designed to be just as expansive as the classical sit-down model. They offer their own unique ride experience not only for the invert model but for each individual ride. Saying that the inverted coaster design in and of itself is an inherent gimmick would be akin to saying that hyper coasters or looping coasters are inherently gimmicky.

And lastly, I would like to point out that if Kings Island installed a B&M invert for 2014, you guys would be the only ones upset. B&M has been building inverts since the early 1990's, and continue to build them all around the world to a wide range of customers. Some point out that the last invert built in the United States was built in 2006, and I would like to point out that that is because nearly every park in the country that can afford an invert already has one. The Six Flags parks have their Batman: The Rides, the Busch parks have Montu and Alpengeist, the Cedar Fair parks have Raptor, Talon, Patriot, Afterburn, Flight Deck, etc. It seems that Kings Island has, like with the hyper model, been left out of the party. And, like with Diamondback, no one when it opens will say "don't ride this! It's decades old technology, it's so outdated!" Instead, people will come out to ride it in the millions, as with Diamondback. (In the 5 years it has been here, Diamondback has given enough rides to service the entire Greater Cincinnati area). A B&M invert would do the same. It would fill a much needed hole in Kings Island's lineup and would attract millions of riders, because a large majority of patrons care only about what they have ridden at their home park, not its context in the global coaster industry.

And as for the enthusiast community, I feel like this B&M invert prejudice is being fostered by a small and vocal minority. I personally have very few rides that I dislike, and I can't think of an entire model of roller coaster that I don't like. That doesnt mean you cant dislike certain coasters, but generalizing an entire model of roller coaster is not a great idea. And most seasoned veterans will tell you that if you don't like a ride, then don't ride it. A truly bad roller coaster is any roller coaster that does its home park more harm than good, not whichever one you enjoyed or didn't enjoy. And a B&M invert would do Kings Island a lot of good. So if you don't like B&M inverts, don't ride the one Kings Island gets, if we do get one. Don't try and assert your opinion on them as a fact of the industry.

[DiamondBackGirl]

Matt Ouimet said He doesn't have another wing rider on the menu for any of the other parks right now.

He could be lying. If you were asked that question would you just say "oh yeah we got one planned for ki and possibly more".

THANK YOU!!! I have been thinking this all along! To me that makes complete sense! I'm not sure why everyone here seems to think he would straight up say there were more coming soon! idk if this will be a wing rider but if it is I wouldn't mind! (:

Edit: spelling mobile sucks. plus I'm typing this on the way to the park! (:

[upstop]

Come on guys, Why would Mr. Ouimet lie? He was asked a direct question and answered that there were no more planned. He has a reputation to keep and being caught in a lie is not acceptable, especially to the stock holders/ investors at Cedar Fair. Mr. Ouimet could have easily dodged the question but he answered truthfully.

The reason he won't disclose information about any coaster is quite clear....coasters are built for fun and to generate profits during season pass sales. If he were to have blurted out the coaster type in April for next year, the excitement about the new coaster would have dwindled to nothing by season pass sales time, and the stock holders/investors would have looked at saying something early as a bad public relations move. JUST WAIT UNTIL IT IS ANNOUNCED THAT SEASON PASS SALE ARE TO BEGIN...then expect an announcement soon after.

Give him some credit, he's probably as excited about this coaster as you, and he just can't say anything.

EDIT: Also implying that he's a liar on a public forum, is not good for the reputation of this site either.

[The Interpreter]

Yep. This attraction is being built for FUN and profit, it can safely be said with great reliabilty.

[YoungStud]

All the arguing about the classification of hypers need to stop.

It won't be any taller than 137' cause that is what raptor is.

[BB1]

I feel sometimes alone in my like for inverts, woodies, Vekomas, and waterparks. I don't know about you guys but I love inverts, they feel different and almost like you are flying (hence Flight Deck). I on the other hand love inverts due to the "fly by" element you get on them and the great feel you can acquire. I'm going to be very happy if we get an invert and or hyper, which I don't see a hyper there.

[YoungStud]

What i don't understand is that with b&m their rides require a 54" height requirement while intamins are 48". The Intamins seem more family friendly...

[KI FANATIC 37]

A 2014 Invert would bring a new style and coaster to the park. Even though it's not my first choice, I still think that it will be great and unique. I have faith in B&M and Cedar Fair.

[Rustbucket]

MF and Vocano started as 54". Not all Intamin rides are 48" requirement.