Death at Six Flags over Texas

[TheCrypt]

From the manufacturer's own representations of their testing, as relayed at IAAPA.

I don't care how much proof you show me; I can't imagine me not falling out of my seat without a restraint.

[kblanken]

If I remember correctly, the restraints don't make a click on this ride.

Anyone else that has been on it remember?

[The Interpreter]

There is not enough negative g forces to propel you from your seat. Next rime you sit on Diamondback, or see others do so, note the angle you are sitting at. You are partly reclined, tilted back. Bags of corn would come back if unrestrained. So would you. Unless you TRIED to get out.

This is not the case with many coasters.

[Jr for Birdy]

Especially cresting the first hill in the front row when your just hanging forward, the restraint is the only thing holding my body in that seat.

[jcgoble3]

Especially cresting the first hill in the front row when your just hanging forward, the restraint is the only thing holding my body in that seat.

Yes, this. Airtime is not the only issue here. There is also the issue of hanging over the first drop from the front few rows. How do you stay on there if the restraint suddenly fails?

[Shaggy]

I feel so horrible for the family of this victim. What a horrific thing to have witnessed!

I was the newly-named Regional Rep for ACE when the tragedy occurred at Holiday World. I stayed with the ACE PR Rep in HW after it was evacuated following the incident. The devistation I saw on the faces over that tragedy is something that still upsets me.

Following that incident, I still witnessed "enthusiasts" trying to get away with single clicks, or complaining about being stapled. It soured me on the "fun" of avid coaster riding, I left ACE immediately and I stopped going to enthusiasts events.

Now, this woman was a regular park goer... but the fact remains that the multi-click rule exists for a reason. I beg everyone reading this to observe ALL rules at every park... including not holding hands up... and I encourage each of you to also pay attention to those that may be placing themselves in harm's way.

Be careful folks.. these are machines... big, dangerous machines.

[calakapepe]

Diamondback has both a primary and a secondary restraint system. In addition, the seats are tilted back (as on every sit-down B&M since Kumba). A rider would remain on the ride with no restraint system, unless they tried to get out.

How does that keep someone in their seat when there's airtime?

[vortexfan]

Bags of corn would come back if unrestrained. So would you. Unless you TRIED to get out.

A bag of corn might come back if unrestrained, but a human rider? If a B&M clamshell popped open in the middle of the ride I'm not confident any guest would keep their cool in that situation - and I doubt flailing about in a disturbed frenzy would bode well for safety.

[YoungStud]

Your floating air time would have your back and shoulders go into the tilted seat. Ejector air would be a different story.

[Jr for Birdy]

Especially cresting the first hill in the front row when your just hanging forward, the restraint is the only thing holding my body in that seat.

Yes, this. Airtime is not the only issue here. There is also the issue of hanging over the first drop from the front few rows. How do you stay on there if the restraint suddenly fails?

That's what I was trying to say, thanks.

[YoungStud]

If your hanging on the lift and the restraints popped up the ride would e stop.

[TheCrypt]

^That doesn't mean you wouldn't fall.

[Shaggy]

Especially cresting the first hill in the front row when your just hanging forward, the restraint is the only thing holding my body in that seat.

Yes, this. Airtime is not the only issue here. There is also the issue of hanging over the first drop from the front few rows. How do you stay on there if the restraint suddenly fails?

That's what I was trying to say, thanks.

If your hanging on the lift and the restraints popped up the ride would e stop.

.

Huh? I didn't know B&M trains were advanced enough that a computer monitored each and every restraint. Firehawk does in-station... but I always assumed B&M's went by the "click" rule - thats the reason for those guidemarks at the base of the restraint pole.

I've never heard of ANY coaster E-stopping if a restraint fails. Seems like this would require a ton of diagnostic equipment on the train itself.

[YoungStud]

Dosent the op in the control room watch the camera that is on the lift?

[disco2000]

What exactly is the primary and secondary restraint system on Diamondback - all I see is the lap restraint?

And I don't care what the manufacturer's representation and such says - those tests are done under controlled environments with them establishing the criteria. Just look at the independent auto test crash ratings - all these cars getting top ratings for frontal impact faired poorly when they adjusted the test to better account for what happens in reality (not head on but rather driver side on driver side impact). Or look at the mileage estimates on cars - I never get the estimate, even on ideal 70degree days and all highway driving with cruise control going majority downhill.

I would like to see a 50pound, 54" stuffed dummy (where the arms and legs can flail around and weight is distributed proportionally to a human) be placed in Diamondback with no restraint or one click and see if it comes back. Those hard plastic water filled dummies they use now are not representative of a human...just sayin...

The day will come that Diamondback will get a seat belt - and let's hope it isn't a tragedy that makes it happen!

[Shaggy]

Dosent the op in the control room watch the camera that is on the lift?

Sure, but that doesn't mean the ride would automatically e-stop if restraints popped open... only if the Op saw it would THEY e-stop it by hand.

[YoungStud]

What exactly is the primary and secondary restraint system on Diamondback - all I see is the lap restraint?

And I don't care what the manufacturer's representation and such says - those tests are done under controlled environments with them establishing the criteria. Just look at the independent auto test crash ratings - all these cars getting top ratings for frontal impact faired poorly when they adjusted the test to better account for what happens in reality (not head on but rather driver side on driver side impact). Or look at the mileage estimates on cars - I never get the estimate, even on ideal 70degree days and all highway driving with cruise control going majority downhill.

I would like to see a 50pound, 54" stuffed dummy (where the arms and legs can flail around and weight is distributed proportionally to a human) be placed in Diamondback with no restraint or one click and see if it comes back. Those hard plastic water filled dummies they use now are not representative of a human...just sayin...

The day will come that Diamondback will get a seat belt - and let's hope it isn't a tragedy that makes it happen!

I am sure when b&m builds a ejector hyper it will have a seat belt.

[The Interpreter]

What exactly is the primary and secondary restraint system on Diamondback - all I see is the lap restraint?

And I don't care what the manufacturer's representation and such says - those tests are done under controlled environments with them establishing the criteria. Just look at the independent auto test crash ratings - all these cars getting top ratings for frontal impact faired poorly when they adjusted the test to better account for what happens in reality (not head on but rather driver side on driver side impact). Or look at the mileage estimates on cars - I never get the estimate, even on ideal 70degree days and all highway driving with cruise control going majority downhill.

I would like to see a 50pound, 54" stuffed dummy (where the arms and legs can flail around and weight is distributed proportionally to a human) be placed in Diamondback with no restraint or one click and see if it comes back. Those hard plastic water filled dummies they use now are not representative of a human...just sayin...

The day will come that Diamondback will get a seat belt - and let's hope it isn't a tragedy that makes it happen!

Nitro was the first of the B&M hypercoasters. It opened with a steel cable that attached from the restraint to the chair body. It was quickly removed as unnecessary (and as a possible cause of injury) in very safety conscious New Jersey, perhaps the strictest jurisdiction in the USA for ride safety.

[Guest Department47]

Huh? I didn't know B&M trains were advanced enough that a computer monitored each and every restraint. Firehawk does in-station... but I always assumed B&M's went by the "click" rule - thats the reason for those guidemarks at the base of the restraint pole.

I've heard the driver spiel specific seat numbers to the operators on the floor, so I'd assume that they can see which seats aren't down far enough.

[The Interpreter]

In the station, yes. Once the train leaves the station, no.

[YoungStud]

I dunno, I know of people that ride it with the restraint barely touching their thighs and nothing is flagged.

[MagicDanTheMan]

Diamondback has easily the most sophisticated lap bar safety system in the entire park.

Why are we comparing it to Texas giant? B&M has a reputation for building safe and reliable rides. This unrelated event on a very dissimilar ride should not be causing this sudden obsession with the lap bars failing on Diamondback. You will never spend a second in motion on Diamondback without a secured lap bar, so don't worry about it.

[The Interpreter]

The signal has to do with overall restraint position (is it low enough for the minimum restraint), not with the size of individual riders.

[TheCrypt]

That's because the system has the required x clicks to run. There is only so much a computer can do.

Edit: beaten to the punch.

[Shaggy]

Regarding the eyewitness account... there's contradictions the statement she gave the press:

Carmen Brown of Arlington was waiting in line as the victim and her son were being strapped in for the ride.

“She was right in front of us, but we weren’t on the ride,” she said.“The lady basically tumbled over.”

If she wasn't on the ride, she couldn't have witnessed her tumbling over during the course of the ride.

Brown said the victim’s young son was in the seat in front of his mother.

“We heard her screaming. We were, like, ‘Did she just fall?’”

If they were in the station - which no doubt was loud and noisy, how did they hear her screaming? Also, if they were next to get on the ride, wouldn't they have been busy loading into the train? I have ridden the old Texas Giant, but the New Texas Giant has the same set-up. The train leaves the station facing AWAY from the course. It makes a 180 turn to the right and onto the lift (the same as Mean Streak) it then ascends the hill and the course is located to the far left of the station (on load side.)

Brown said she didn’t believe that the woman had been secured in her seat correctly.

Subjective

Brown said the victim expressed concern to a park employee that her harness only clicked once when it was lowered into place, unlike the multiple clicks heard when others were strapped in.

“He was basically nonchalant,” Brown said. “He was, like, ‘As long as you heard it click, you’re fine. Hers was the only one that went down once, and she didn’t feel safe. But they let her still get on the ride.”

Investigators were interviewing witnesses on the ride, some of whom reported that the woman had been thrown from the roller coaster as it rounded a turn.

This confuses me. Because of the high sides to the train, I wouldn't expect that she fell to the side. It would seem more likely that she'd fall forward or backward... and the witness even elluded to it "The Lady basically tumbled over."

None the less, time will tell. However I don't think we will gain accurate information based on such eyewitness accounts. Any NUMBER of things could have gone wrong. And often, such horrible tragedies are a result of several mistakes, errors or circumstances.

[YoungStud]

The signal has to do with overall restraint position (is it low enough for the minimum restraint), not with the size of individual riders.

Good to know, I will tell my buddy to always put the lap bar down far enough to be safe.

[Creed Bratton]

I can't imagine the pain and grief her family is feeling right now. My thoughts and prayers are with all of those who are related to the woman, friends of the woman, who witnessed the incident, who work on the ride, park management and various others affected by this event.

[kblanken]

Investigators were interviewing witnesses on the ride, some of whom reported that the woman had been thrown from the roller coaster as it rounded a turn.

This confuses me. Because of the high sides to the train, I wouldn't expect that she fell to the side. It would seem more likely that she'd fall forward or backward... and the witness even elluded to it "The Lady basically tumbled over."

On several of the turns, the track is sideways, so falling out of the side of the ride would be like falling up away from the seat...If that is what happened.

(edit to try and have my words make sense)

[rcwizard13]

According to the discussion on TPR, there was no click system on Texas Giant. I made a post of how the employee was at fault. Robb replied saying they had already discussed it and none of them can remember hearing clicks on Texas Giant.

[Shaggy]

According to the discussion on TPR, there was no click system on Texas Giant. I made a post of how the employee was at fault. Robb replied saying they had already discussed it and none of them can remember hearing clicks on Texas Giant.

Some coaster's lap restraints rely on, what I believe to be, air compression. I believe Intamin rides like Superman coasters, MForce, Drop Tower etc are like this - they don't click they compress down. If that's the case, then there is a chance that there was a compression failure. IF the victim was over-weight, this would have compounded the failure. That is, essentially, the cause of the Superman death many years ago.