Diamondback restraint thoughts

[jcgoble3]

I, for one, am glad that they installed the seat belts. Finally, my wife and I can enjoy the Diamondback experience without that uncomfortable floating sensation.

That floating sensation (known as "airtime") is not affected by the seat belts.

This is just an educated opinion, but I don't believe the seatbelts on Diamondback are primarily there for safety reasons, even though that's that reason most people buy in to. I believe the belts are there to simply make sure that the rider - specifically those with larger lower body proportions - fits in the seat. If the belt doesn't buckle then there's no need to deal with the primary restraint.

The belts are far too long for that. Anyone who can get the required number of clicks will have no problems with the belt.

[NightlyBeast]

I know trains were stacking pretty bad around 5pm... and that was with GM Greg on deck. The crew were even taking time to buckle the belts of empty seats. That isn't even done on Beast. I asked Gary Coleman about the belts before I rode and he said "It's a bummer". He was on ride 10172.

[DontWantToWait42mar0]

We don't have a RIGHT to know anything. If the park chooses to reveal such information to us, it would be a privilege. I don't think they will, and that's their right.

Would anyone here ride Diamondback with the restraint up with the seat belt only restraining you? Probably not right? Just food for thought for those of you who believe that seat belt only would somehow be an effective way to restrain you in the VERY unlikely event of a restraint problem.

I would ride Diamondback with only a seatbelt as a restraint. I would even ride Diamondback with no restraint whatsoever; I would just have to hold on tight to the bottom of the seat.

[Tanna]

I was sitting next to someone who got his fingers whacked by the helix tunnel on The Beast. It can happen. He had his arms up, and the best he could figure, the momentum forced his arm sideways. He's 6'2", and not asinine, it just happened.

I love that DB gives the illusion of danger with it's airtime, but has all those cleverly engineered safety gadgets built on. I dislike that the seatbelt bites into that illusion of danger, and even at my puny weight, wouldn't trust a mere strip of woven plastic to keep me in a ride.

[gad198]

I would ride Diamondback with only a seatbelt as a restraint. I would even ride Diamondback with no restraint whatsoever; I would just have to hold on tight to the bottom of the seat.

For the record I'd consider doing so too, but admittedly most patrons aren't like you and me. The Interpreter mentioned in a post some time back that bags of corn would come back if sent out on the Diamondback course because of the way the seats are angled. If there's one company I trust with my safety it's B&M. Their track record speaks for itself. I still believe that this seat belt is here for entirely unnecessary purposes. On the surface it looks like the seat belt does something to aid safety, but it's just an illusion - the placebo effect if you will.

The primary restraint on any vehicle you're riding in, whether it's a roller coaster or a car, will typically have a far more significant effect on your safety than any secondary safety measures. Seat belts in your car are the primary restraint mechanism in your car. That's also the reason why all of the government ad slogans tell you to buckle your safety belt in some capacity ("click it or ticket", etc.). Seat belt usage saves more lives than any other safety related device in cars, and very few refute this.

The primary restraint on Diamondback is the clamshell restraint/reclining angle of the seat combination. The restraints themselves have primary and secondary mechanisms to prevent failure. Millions of riders have ridden on B&M hypers without incident with no seat belts. We're well past the point statistically where that result would be considered insignificant.

I spent a several hours researching seat belt statistics before posting this just to see what I'd find. I also decided to take a look at the incidents where riders were ejected on Intamin hyper coasters. From what I can gather the first incident, at Darien Lake in 1999, prompted the installation of seat belts on the other Intamin megas including the mirror clone at Six Flags America and the coasters that opened up the next year, Superman: Ride of Steel (now Bizarro at Six Flags New England) and Millennium Force. Another rider was ejected in 2004 on Superman (now Bizarro) at Six Flags New England. The accident report issued by the Massachusetts Department of Public Safety had several interesting quotes, two of which I'll quote below:

It was observed, after the accident, that the [victim's] seat belt was still connected and latched. The position of the latching mechanism was pulled between the seat and the side restraint. The ride photo taken by an automatic camera on the coaster 10 to 20 seconds prior to the accident demonstrated that the seat belt was secured around [the victim]

The hydraulic system of the "T" bar restraint was checked for proper function. The system appeared clean and free of leakage. The seatbelt system was also checked and mechanically functioned properly.

The ride report is worth reading and you can read a reprint of it below:

http://www.rideaccidents.com/2004.html#may7a

Bottom line - if you think that seat belts might help keep you in a coaster train - if the primary means of restraint aren't where they're supposed to be on some rides with appreciable airtime - it might be presumptuous at best. The primary restraint (lap bar, clamshell, whatever) needs to be in proper position to avoid any issues. There's a reason why coaster designers generally don't use seat belts as the only means of restraint.

[upstop]

Carousels and Merry-go-rounds need seatbelts.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=amusement+park+carousel+accidents&qs=n&form=QBRE&pq=amusement+park+carousel+accidents&sc=0-18&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=1d4be6e9ca34428aa3b2a35c1eab3b86

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/28/the-amusement-park-ride-associated-with-the-most-injuries-might-surprise-you/

[Existential]

YAY!

I'm glad. Even if it just cosmetically reduces fears and anxieties.

[The Interpreter]

The carousel at Geauga Lake park had seat belts.

The Whip at Dorney Park has seat belts.

Scramblers, after many, many years of operation without them, almost all now have seat belts.

The same, though, could be said of automobiles. My car seat as a child was a small metal seat that hung on hooks over the top of the car's seat, and was meant only to boost me up so I could see. I survived. Many did not.

[homestar92]

Would anyone here ride Diamondback with the restraint up with the seat belt only restraining you? Probably not right? Just food for thought for those of you who believe that seat belt only would somehow be an effective way to restrain you in the VERY unlikely event of a restraint problem.

Not Diamondback, but that's how I felt riding Phantom's Revenge with its lap bars that are nearly worthless for skinny riders. I think I had at least 6 inches between my lap and the restraint. But I love that ride so much, that I'll happily take the Chance and ride a Morgan.

*Note: I'm not implying that the restraint on that ride failed. The bar was down. Fully. The restraint functioned exactly as it should for the whole ride. I just don't really feel like functioning "exactly as it should" seems adequate for skinny riders on that particular ride, as it doesn't make contact with my lap, or even have handles to hold on to...

[Tanna]

As a skinny person, I think we have as much responsibility for using common sense as fat people. I don't feel comfortable on Firehawk.

Firehawk is safe, one of my nieces is the same size as me, and rides it every time, but I feel like I'm holding myself up from falling. Having a metal plate in my drawing arm might produce undue stress, and break my arm again. I'm not doing that to Firehawk fans.

If a skinny person is getting knocked around too much by a ride, or is in just a loose position that they feel unsafe, they shouldn't ride.

Most rides that fit loose are assuming that the riders have thighs to catch and hands to hold the bar. I don't ride hands up on some rides, or else one side of my ribcage would be meeting the ribs on the other side by the end of the ride.

I'm not saying that if the lap bar doesn't reach your thighs, to flag a worker and get out, I'd never ride The Racer or DB if that were the case, especially since that's part of DB's design to give airtime. I'm saying that if you are so lightweight, that the Scrambler smashes you into the far side of the seat to cause pain, don't ride it. Don't mess up the ride for other patrons with unnecessary down time and investigations.

[gad198]

I'm not implying that the restraint on that ride failed. The bar was down. Fully. The restraint functioned exactly as it should for the whole ride. I just don't really feel like functioning "exactly as it should" seems adequate for skinny riders on that particular ride, as it doesn't make contact with my lap, or even have handles to hold on to...

The ride ejection reports have usually shared one thing in common - insufficient restraints. Notice that we haven't seen an Intamin coaster with a T-bar restraint in the US since Top Thrill Dragster. Three of the coasters that originally opened with T-bar restraints (the Superman megas at the Six flags parks) were modified substantially in response to the ejections. Morgan, Giovanola and B&M figured out a long time ago that what keeps you in the restraint on a coaster with airtime isn't a seat belt, it's the angle of the seat and how deep you are positioned in that seat. Intamin finally caught on to this. If you look at Skyrush, the last Intamin mega built in the US and the coaster with arguably the most aggressive airtime in the country, look at the angle of the seats:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8292/7502972400_479aca8bb5.jpg

Compare that picture with Behemoth:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3051/2439004705_be1d93e9cc.jpg

Skyrush doesn't have seat belts similar to what Diamondback has now, and that ride is far more aggressive than Diamondback. Oh well. I still believe the seat belts won't be on Diamondback long-term and will be removed eventually once common sense reigns again.

[OleShawn]

I watched a guys cell phone bounce from the first drop, until the banked turn, up and down on the train. Kinda funny because he would almost have it back and then it would fly away from him. I think I could hold on.

[zombieninja]

^ I too, have witnessed this strange phenomenon with floating loose objects on Diamondback, at the expense of someone else's carelessness. It drives anyone watching crazy.

Especially the owner.

[milesharrison]

A few years ago I had my iPod in my back pocket...being my young careless self, I didn't realize it could fly out of my back pocket. Luckily it wasn't till closer to the end and the kid behind me caught it.

Learned my lesson after that...

[flightoffear1996]

Rode Diamondback today and the seatbelts are really slowing the crew down. Waited 2 hours for almost a few queue. That line used to be 90 minutes at the most.

[RollerNut]

A seatbelt is not going to stop another New Texas Giant accident on any coaster. Seatbelts are just there to give the illusion of safety, if a paniced ride wants out enough, that seatbelt will not stop them. Anyone with any knowledge of a PTC coaster train could free themselves in 10 seconds or less.

[KI Guy]

The problem with modifying safety systems is that doing so casts doubt on the system pre-modification. A guest may very well think "So when I rode this last (insert time period) it was unsafe"? We know better, but many do not. That being said, had there been any issue, or legitimate concern it would be a no-brainer to change the restraints

[MysticsTimber]

The seat belts really don't make a difference. I rode it tonight and I still had the same experience as I've always had on Diamondback.

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[gad198]

Rode Diamondback today and the seatbelts are really slowing the crew down. Waited 2 hours for almost a few queue. That line used to be 90 minutes at the most.

My friend Dave sent me a text at 11 this morning saying a normal 10 minute wait for Diamondback turned into a 25 minute affair. I just saw reports that Behemoth and Intimidator Carowinds have the seat belts as well. Check out this bit about Behemoth operation today from kunpc1, a moderator over at the fansite CWMania:

Only 2 trains were cycling today and they were STILL stacking... As guests load the train, the restraints are locked in the open position. Everyone must first buckle their seatbelts. Once this is done, the ride ops check each seatbelt. Once all seatbelts have been checked, the restraints are released, riders pull them down and then a second check of the entire train is completed to ensure the clamshell restraints have locked.

Is this similar to the way Diamondback is being operated right now? I haven't seen any posts that specifically address the new loading procedures.

Interestingly enough, despite the seat belts on Behemoth they are not currently on Leviathan. Say what?! This whole saga is just getting more bizarre by the minute.

[jcgoble3]

^ No. Diamondback operators yesterday were checking seat belts and clamshells at the same time.

[Diamondback FOF]

Rode Diamondback today and the seatbelts are really slowing the crew down. Waited 2 hours for almost a few queue. That line used to be 90 minutes at the most.

90 minutes? More like an hour or less for a full queue in the past.

[MysticsTimber]

When I rode Diamondback on Opening Day (without seat belts), I waited about an hour but it really seemed like 30 minutes. When I rode it tonight (with seat belts), I waited about an hour again but this time it seemed like 2 hours. They really do slow the crew down.

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[Miythandria]

I rode Diamondback with seatbelts. I didn't notice a change in airtime. I did notice that it seemed to take the crew a little longer, but that could just be "getting back into the groove of things." The line did take a long time, but there were a lot of Fast Lane pass people going through when I was in line. It was one train for regular people and one train for Fast Lane people.

[KIfan73]

How lucky is it that when they add something like that to a popular ride that slows down its operation you're able to buy something to bypass the line?

[homestar92]

^Or that they continue selling an item that is in its 4th season...

[CoasterOhio]

I'm worried that the park will make Diamondback, like Banshee is with loose articles. Having you pay for a locker, getting rid of the item bins.

[rcwizard13]

I'm worried that the park will make Diamondback, like Banshee is with loose articles. Having you pay for a locker, getting rid of the item bins.

After hearing how long the line has been this season, that would make me very happy. But then again, I'm the type of guy that only takes what I can fit in my pockets.

[razmataz99]

Maybe their just putting seat belts on Diamondback just to distract you from the construction of the 9 minute B&M Wingrider in X-base.

razmataz, who just had to.

[upstop]

I'm worried that the park will make Diamondback, like Banshee is with loose articles. Having you pay for a locker, getting rid of the item bins.

^^Not too far fetched of an idea. It's quite possible that that could happen throughout the park. It does speed up the ride since you don't have guests criss-crossing each other to put in/retrieve items from a bin. Plus those exiting leave the platform faster too.

[PKIVortex]

But it doest seem to be as much as an issue at Cedar Point. If only one person in the group would put the items in the bins it would help a lot. No reason why everyone in the group needs to run to the bins.

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