Beast Speeds

[thedevariouseffect]

So, I hit a video to watch a few clips and enjoy them on Youtube today, and thought of something. I compared the old Beast pre opening video to the current POV, and was actually shocked. So using the old video I'm sure everyone here has seen before tunnels were built/etc and the current released POV, I noticed quite a difference.

I put the two side by side and put the camera at several points to compare timing, and was amazed by the results. It honestly seems like the old Beast that was considered wild, agressive, out of this world, and insanely fast, really wasn't at all, whatsoever. Here's what I observed:

Leaving station=Current Beast much faster to lift hill engagement, old Beast seems to go quite slow here

Lift Hill=Old Beast climbs much quicker then almost "stalls" at the top before crest, current setup creeps, block clears speed, then creep up top

Drop/Tunnel/Turn=Old beast seems much faster down the drop and through the turn/drop, much more agressive airtime it looks here, current not bad but seems a tad slow

Brake Shed=First major difference, old Beast with longer brake run length slows down quick and takes quite a hit, current slows down right at end where drive wheels were located back then. Even then current Beast seems to have more speed through here and exiting the brake shed. This is where things get surprising.

Post Brake Shed-->Lift=This is where current Beast seems to dominate, it flies through the turns and tunnel(s). Old Beast post brake shed seemed sluggish, and honestly not that crazy as it always was mentioned

Lift Hill #2=This was another surprising find. Old Beast seeming slower almost slows down completely on the hill w/ anti rollback ratchets (makes sense for the placement now) and then barely hits the lift hill and goes up. Current Beast, honestly I see no major reason for the rollbacks, and then it shoots up the lift hill, almost a good 1/3 or more up. Then the current itiration seems to climb quicker than old Beast.

Finale/Brake Run=This was very very very close. Current Beast seemed to have more speed post Helix however and hit brakes first but barely, it's too close for me to really critisize unline the first half of the ride. New Beast was climbing lift two before old Beast even engaged the hill.

So I ask everyone this, and figured open it to debate amongst us. Was Beast really that great and fast/exciting/insane? Is it moreover us being nostalgic enthusiasts as per ususal? Is it just comparing to what was out back then (it had insane laterals/distance/etc). Was it just more intense in a certain aspect.

I always hear KI enthusiasts say old Beast was 10x better than today, but on POV it seems like we have a better product now than when it opened originally in these videos. Obviously I wasn't around KI all these years, so figured I'd ask y'all and those who have been here that long. One thing I did notice too lastly, Beast still had lube issues back then too. Heard the wheels squeal quite alot in sections just like it does today at times when it's not freshly lubed.

[The Interpreter]

I have consistently said Beast has no more brakes or braking today than it ever did since opening to the public--other than the brief period brakes were removed in places while Paramount switched to magnetic braking.

On rainy days, the skids were less effective. And more risky.

[homestar92]

I noticed similar things in that old POV from 1979. It seems to just barely have enough momentum to get to the station. There are a couple factors at play to think about. Were the trains empty for both? How did the 4-row cars affect speed, if at all.

I still contend that people think it was faster then due to having been younger and not having ridden the ride dozens upon dozens of times like they have now. Because as I can tell, it seems much faster now than then.

[Magenta Lizard]

It seemed to me in the late 80s-early 90s that it got faster as the track heated up during the day. No idea why it would be, but it always seemed tamer in the cooler morning, or on cooler days in general.

As for being faster in the past, I think we remember it that way due to lack of competition. It was faster and wilder than the other coasters I had ridden at that time. Now it has competition from things like Diamondback just within the same park.

I used to find the height of the lift hill on Beast to be intimidating. I still do, sometimes. But, one day I went on Diamondback five or so times in a row before riding Beast, and the first hill of The Beast seemed quaint.

I think it just takes more to thrill us as much more intense rides have been built. We're a bit jaded in a way we couldn't be in the past.

[Fire-Beast-OF FEAR]

I've ridden The Beast recently (last two years) with most trims removed and I don't see much of a difference. the speed lost on the trims are actually mainly lost due to friction on the high speed turns and without the trims they are very uncomfortable and slow.

Other than that I personally find The Beast sort of an overrated ride in the first place so most of the the hype in my opinion is blinding nostalgia.

[KI Guy]

This in-depth discussion from another site on this very topic may interest many of you. There are a lot of variables in comparing rides over time to say the least.

The Beast 1979 vs 2011

http://coasterbuzz.com/Forums/Topic/the-beast-pov---1979-vs-2011-side-by-side

[Oldiesmann]

Another thing to consider is that at one time, Beast had buzz bars and no seatbelts. I'm sure it would seem much wilder with much less holding you down.

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[Who Dey]

I remember watching a video of the 25th anniversary or something of that nature. One of the men who worked on The Beast when it first opened said in the morning the train would valley right before the final brake run on occasion during morning testing. They would go back there and rock the train back and forth and get it back up to the final brake run. He stated that would never happen now days. I would post the link but I am way too lazy to look for that video.

[Oldiesmann]

I assume you're referring to this?

[thegajone]

It seemed to me in the late 80s-early 90s that it got faster as the track heated up during the day. No idea why it would be, but it always seemed tamer in the cooler morning, or on cooler days in general.

As for being faster in the past, I think we remember it that way due to lack of competition. It was faster and wilder than the other coasters I had ridden at that time. Now it has competition from things like Diamondback just within the same park.

I used to find the height of the lift hill on Beast to be intimidating. I still do, sometimes. But, one day I went on Diamondback five or so times in a row before riding Beast, and the first hill of The Beast seemed quaint.

I think it just takes more to thrill us as much more intense rides have been built. We're a bit jaded in a way we couldn't be in the past.

Well said, this is pretty much exactly what I was going to post. It probably just seemed faster because it was the fastest coaster around. And like you said, if you ride DB then Beast, Beast sort of loses its edge a little IMO. It just doesn't seem to be the same ride that I remember when you compare it to DB. Still a great ride by all means, just not as intense as it once seemed.

[medford]

Another factor, and it plays into the nostalgia aspect, is that if The Racer kicked off the 2nd golden era of roller coasters, then The Beast was still in the early stages of that era, there were no Hyper or Giga coasters, there were no 6 inversion Arrow rides like Vortex, there were no suspended or inverted coasters, no launch coasters, dive coasters, etc... there was significantly less roller coaster inventory to compare The Beast to when it made its debut. Today there is a lot more alternatives, there is a significantly wider array of variety with significantly improved technology. Sure the changes in restraints, trains and breaks have all made for a different feel, but so have all the other options now available to us.

[The Interpreter]

Still, the ride has kept its relative thrill factor far better than virtually any of its contemporaneous park investments, both nationally and internationally. 1979 was not a time when major thrills were in vogue. The insurance crisis had just begun, and park owners were very risk averse. The Beast was very unlike any wooden coaster seen before, and to a very large extent, any seen since.

[McSalsa]

^
To kinda put that in perspective- the other rides I think about when I think "Popular and well-known coasters of the 1970s" besides Beast are things like Arrow Corkscrews (usually under 100 feet high and with no more than 3 inversion at the time), Revolution @ SFMM, Gemini @ Cedar Point, Loch Ness Monster @ Busch Gardens Williamsburg, and a ton of out-and-back or racing wooden coasters that opened in the wake of Racer @ Kings Island, which itself was still HUGE in 1979. Even a lot of stuff built during the 1980's- save the giant wooden racing coaster American Eagle @ SFGam which opened in 1981- wasn't really on the scale of Beast until towards the end when you got Magnum XL-200 @ Cedar Point, Hercules @ Dorney Park, and the Arrow "Mega" Loopers such as Vortex began to show up.

Another factor I think may well be modern wooden coasters are starting to get really "aggressive" with sharper twists and turns, in addition to bigger drops (on a very small handful of coasters- Beast's biggest 141 foot drop is still huge even by modern wooden coaster standards), making them feel even faster than they are, versus Beast's "straight track that goes slightly downhill in wooded terrain" approach it takes for most of the ride.